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10thMountain Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
Hmmm

So the choice is to voluntarily agree to sabotage your AD for the benefit of a G5 program or to just leave them all behind

That’ll be a tough one
01-11-2019 02:02 PM
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CAJUNNATION Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  No, it isn't. Maybe that's your problem.

You know good and well that they think UCF would get crushed with a P5 conference schedule.... or that is what they say in public.

I think deep down in their hear of hearts the KNOW it's all BS.
01-11-2019 02:23 PM
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CAJUNNATION Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 02:02 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Hmmm

So the choice is to voluntarily agree to sabotage your AD for the benefit of a G5 program or to just leave them all behind

That’ll be a tough one

Sabotage the Athletic Department? How so? Kansas basketball would keep chugging along. Louisville basketball would be unaffected. Vandy? Would anybody notice they weren't on the schedule?

Not buying it.

This deal gives you the autonomy you wanted and the opportunity to strengthen your football lineup. Yeah, it's terrible I tell you!
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 02:27 PM by CAJUNNATION.)
01-11-2019 02:26 PM
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DawgNBama Offline
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Post: #24
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-10-2019 02:31 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 02:06 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Relegation is a ridiculous concept for college football.

Says the Syracuse fan 03-lmfao

Relegation is a ridiculous concept for college sports in general, IMO. Yeah, Syracuse might bring up the rear in football, but they are very elite when it comes to basketball. You have to factor that in too.
01-11-2019 02:28 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 02:23 PM)CAJUNNATION Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 12:59 PM)ken d Wrote:  No, it isn't. Maybe that's your problem.

You know good and well that they think UCF would get crushed with a P5 conference schedule.... or that is what they say in public.

I think deep down in their hear of hearts the KNOW it's all BS.

What I know good and well is that I have never heard any talking head so much as hint at what you said. The only time I have ever heard such a thing is from you, on this thread. I can only assume the only reason you would make such an absurd suggestion is because you think it supports your equally wacky idea.

But I guess trolls gotta troll.
01-11-2019 02:36 PM
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CAJUNNATION Offline
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Post: #26
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 02:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I know good and well is that I have never heard any talking head so much as hint at what you said. The only time I have ever heard such a thing is from you, on this thread. I can only assume the only reason you would make such an absurd suggestion is because you think it supports your equally wacky idea.

But I guess trolls gotta troll.

First of all, I assume that by calling me a troll, you think I am just on here blowing smoke for the fun of it? That I really don't believe this?

You're wrong. I loathe trolls. I just disagree with you.

Secondly, do you have Sirius radio? Do you listen to ESPNU? Those guys couldn't mention UCF without the obligatory "They wouldn't compete" mantra. Do you not notice the G5 disdain just dripping off of Herbstriet on TV?
01-11-2019 02:54 PM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 02:28 PM)DawgNBama Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 02:31 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 02:06 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  Relegation is a ridiculous concept for college football.

Says the Syracuse fan 03-lmfao

Relegation is a ridiculous concept for college sports in general, IMO. Yeah, Syracuse might bring up the rear in football, but they are very elite when it comes to basketball. You have to factor that in too.

Our (Cuse) bad seasons in the past wouldn't be relegated but you are right you can't separate Football from all the other sports.

Also, you can remove Cuse from your bad team example going forward.04-cheers

As for UCF: their last two teams would have winning P5 records but they would not be a Top 10 finisher. They would get beat up and exposed. Those come from behind wins versus the AAC teams would likely be losses versus most P5 programs.
01-11-2019 03:06 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 03:06 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  As for UCF: their last two teams would have winning P5 records but they would not be a Top 10 finisher. They would get beat up and exposed. Those come from behind wins versus the AAC teams would likely be losses versus most P5 programs.

Maybe, maybe not.

But there's no doubt that if this all happened in a world where there was relegation, UCF would have been relegated down after their 2015 0-12 season. Players would have transferred out when they dropped down, recruits would have chosen teams still in FBS rather than a team that had been relegated to FCS, and UCF's roster would not have had the personnel that, in our non-relegation world, went 13-0 in 2017.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 03:54 PM by Wedge.)
01-11-2019 03:49 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 02:54 PM)CAJUNNATION Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 02:36 PM)ken d Wrote:  What I know good and well is that I have never heard any talking head so much as hint at what you said. The only time I have ever heard such a thing is from you, on this thread. I can only assume the only reason you would make such an absurd suggestion is because you think it supports your equally wacky idea.

But I guess trolls gotta troll.

First of all, I assume that by calling me a troll, you think I am just on here blowing smoke for the fun of it? That I really don't believe this?

You're wrong. I loathe trolls. I just disagree with you.

Secondly, do you have Sirius radio? Do you listen to ESPNU? Those guys couldn't mention UCF without the obligatory "They wouldn't compete" mantra. Do you not notice the G5 disdain just dripping off of Herbstriet on TV?

I assume you are trolling because that's the most charitable explanation I can come up with for your assertion about what other people think (including me). I could be wrong, and you may sincerely believe what you are saying. But that doesn't make it true. I'll just chalk it up to internet hyperbole and leave it at that.
01-11-2019 04:05 PM
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CAJUNNATION Offline
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Post: #30
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 03:49 PM)Wedge Wrote:  ... UCF would have been relegated down after their 2015 0-12 season. Players would have transferred out when they dropped down, recruits would have chosen teams still in FBS rather than a team that had been relegated to FCS, and UCF's roster would not have had the personnel that, in our non-relegation world, went 13-0 in 2017.


Under my idea, UCF would only have been relegated if an FCS school from within the AAC footprint had won the FCS playoffs. NDSU won that year. UCF would have been off the hook.

But, you're right. Relegation sucks.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 04:34 PM by CAJUNNATION.)
01-11-2019 04:31 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #31
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
There is no reason FCS should have a 16 team playoff. The first round of the existing playoff is littered with 3 and 4 loss teams. None of which made it past the next round. I doubt that tournament is self funding so why waste money shuffling 4 loss teams around the country?

I don't think relegation works, even in the European soccer leagues. In college, you are talking about 15-20 or more sports.

There are also contracts involved. You can't change the parties of a contract without the other side agreeing.
01-11-2019 09:58 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #32
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-11-2019 09:58 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  There is no reason FCS should have a 16 team playoff. The first round of the existing playoff is littered with 3 and 4 loss teams. None of which made it past the next round. I doubt that tournament is self funding so why waste money shuffling 4 loss teams around the country?

I don't think relegation works, even in the European soccer leagues. In college, you are talking about 15-20 or more sports.

There are also contracts involved. You can't change the parties of a contract without the other side agreeing.

Uhhhh, FCS has a 24-team playoff, not 16...
01-12-2019 05:41 AM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #33
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-12-2019 05:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:58 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  There is no reason FCS should have a 16 team playoff. The first round of the existing playoff is littered with 3 and 4 loss teams. None of which made it past the next round. I doubt that tournament is self funding so why waste money shuffling 4 loss teams around the country?

I don't think relegation works, even in the European soccer leagues. In college, you are talking about 15-20 or more sports.

There are also contracts involved. You can't change the parties of a contract without the other side agreeing.

Uhhhh, FCS has a 24-team playoff, not 16...

I am not sure why FCS has continued to expand. Even second-round games usually draw less than 8k or 9k.

Attendance is just very low for the playoffs, fan interest just isn't there outside of NDST.

And conceptually, there seems to be little justification, as the "same teams" seem to win all the time. Might as well have a CFP type system.

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/25431535
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 07:56 AM by quo vadis.)
01-12-2019 07:55 AM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #34
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-12-2019 07:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 05:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:58 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  There is no reason FCS should have a 16 team playoff. The first round of the existing playoff is littered with 3 and 4 loss teams. None of which made it past the next round. I doubt that tournament is self funding so why waste money shuffling 4 loss teams around the country?

I don't think relegation works, even in the European soccer leagues. In college, you are talking about 15-20 or more sports.

There are also contracts involved. You can't change the parties of a contract without the other side agreeing.

Uhhhh, FCS has a 24-team playoff, not 16...

I am not sure why FCS has continued to expand. Even second-round games usually draw less than 8k or 9k.

Attendance is just very low for the playoffs, fan interest just isn't there outside of NDST.

And conceptually, there seems to be little justification, as the "same teams" seem to win all the time. Might as well have a CFP type system.

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/25431535

Point #1: NCAA requires there to be as many at-large teams as auto-bids. The addition of an auto bid for non-scholarship Pioneer League (as an example) results in needing two more slots, not just one.

Point #2: Playoff attendance is universally underreported to avoid giving the NCAA a bigger piece of the gate $$. First round is Thanksgiving weekend, so easy to have legit empty stadiums when you can’t plan for that game until the Sunday before.
01-12-2019 10:42 AM
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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #35
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-12-2019 10:42 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 07:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 05:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:58 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  There is no reason FCS should have a 16 team playoff. The first round of the existing playoff is littered with 3 and 4 loss teams. None of which made it past the next round. I doubt that tournament is self funding so why waste money shuffling 4 loss teams around the country?

I don't think relegation works, even in the European soccer leagues. In college, you are talking about 15-20 or more sports.

There are also contracts involved. You can't change the parties of a contract without the other side agreeing.

Uhhhh, FCS has a 24-team playoff, not 16...

I am not sure why FCS has continued to expand. Even second-round games usually draw less than 8k or 9k.

Attendance is just very low for the playoffs, fan interest just isn't there outside of NDST.

And conceptually, there seems to be little justification, as the "same teams" seem to win all the time. Might as well have a CFP type system.

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/25431535

Point #1: NCAA requires there to be as many at-large teams as auto-bids. The addition of an auto bid for non-scholarship Pioneer League (as an example) results in needing two more slots, not just one.

Point #2: Playoff attendance is universally underreported to avoid giving the NCAA a bigger piece of the gate $$. First round is Thanksgiving weekend, so easy to have legit empty stadiums when you can’t plan for that game until the Sunday before.

So what you are saying is their is no ethics in the FCS?
01-12-2019 03:31 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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Post: #36
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-12-2019 05:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:58 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  There is no reason FCS should have a 16 team playoff. The first round of the existing playoff is littered with 3 and 4 loss teams. None of which made it past the next round. I doubt that tournament is self funding so why waste money shuffling 4 loss teams around the country?

I don't think relegation works, even in the European soccer leagues. In college, you are talking about 15-20 or more sports.

There are also contracts involved. You can't change the parties of a contract without the other side agreeing.

Uhhhh, FCS has a 24-team playoff, not 16...

The OP proposed a 16 team playoff for 1C (FCS).
01-12-2019 06:50 PM
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HyperDuke Offline
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Post: #37
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
My bad, wolfman.
01-12-2019 07:47 PM
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chargeradio Online
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Post: #38
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
The other messy issue is that FBS and FCS have different scholarship limits. Congratulations, North Dakota State, you’ve just been promoted to the Big 12, but now you have to give 22 scholarships to your football team you didn’t last year, and you’ll be the subject of a Title IX lawsuit if you don’t up your women’s scholarship offerings as well. The likely result of promotion/relegation is that everyone drops to 63 scholarships, whether you’re Clemson or South Carolina State. Schools like San Diego may be between a rock and a hard place (Division 1D?).

You’d probably also have to keep promotion and relegation confined to within Division 1. Indiana Univeristy of Pennsylvania might be competitive on the gridiron, but it’s not like they can have the same size athletic department as Indiana University in Bloomington overnight.
01-13-2019 09:24 PM
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quo vadis Online
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Post: #39
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-12-2019 10:42 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Point #2: Playoff attendance is universally underreported to avoid giving the NCAA a bigger piece of the gate $$. First round is Thanksgiving weekend, so easy to have legit empty stadiums when you can’t plan for that game until the Sunday before.

What?

I thought NCAA-sanctioned playoffs are the key to cleaning up college football? Making everything above-board and legit?
(This post was last modified: 01-14-2019 09:34 AM by quo vadis.)
01-14-2019 09:34 AM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #40
RE: OK, y'all wanna split? Let's split...
(01-12-2019 07:55 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 05:41 AM)HyperDuke Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:58 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  There is no reason FCS should have a 16 team playoff. The first round of the existing playoff is littered with 3 and 4 loss teams. None of which made it past the next round. I doubt that tournament is self funding so why waste money shuffling 4 loss teams around the country?

I don't think relegation works, even in the European soccer leagues. In college, you are talking about 15-20 or more sports.

There are also contracts involved. You can't change the parties of a contract without the other side agreeing.

Uhhhh, FCS has a 24-team playoff, not 16...

I am not sure why FCS has continued to expand. Even second-round games usually draw less than 8k or 9k.

Attendance is just very low for the playoffs, fan interest just isn't there outside of NDST.

And conceptually, there seems to be little justification, as the "same teams" seem to win all the time. Might as well have a CFP type system.

http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/25431535

I assume this is all paid for by the NCAA Men's Basketball Tournament?
01-15-2019 09:38 AM
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