Apparently Richt wasn't forced out, but they were telling him what to do.

https://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-c...18235.html

"...Richt’s Sunday morning resignation stunned James because the two men had met for three hours the day before, the coach expressing his angst but the AD seemingly having talked him off the ledge.

“I felt based on our conversation that he was going to continue on,” James told us. “We discussed the changes he was going to make on offense and I agreed to that. I felt there were things he could take off his plate [such as play-calling duties] to better position our program with him as the head coach. He wants what’s best for the program, and he didn’t want to go through the grind it would take for us to be the very best. I pushed back [at him retiring]. I said think about all the things we talked about, and what a better experience it’ll be for you next year. But you have to be all in....”"

Sounds like the AD wanted Richt to let new coordinators have near-complete control over the offense and defense while Richt would be a CEO like Dabo Swinney. And maybe Richt wasn't interested in being the guy who fired the entire offensive staff, as Diaz has done.

(01-10-2019 02:29 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Sounds like the AD wanted Richt to let new coordinators have near-complete control over the offense and defense while Richt would be a CEO like Dabo Swinney. And maybe Richt wasn't interested in being the guy who fired the entire offensive staff, as Diaz has done.

...especially considering one of them would be sitting across the dinner table at family reunions?

I don't think Richt retiring was him falling on his sword to avoid firing his offensive staff. The article mentions that James had to convince him to stay the day before so retirement was already in his head. he probably looked at the Spurrier situation in South Carolina and how that ended and decided it's better to go out on his own terms now than slink out later. Spurrier let Ray Tanner talk him into one more season and he only made it halfway through it before he retired. I imagine Richt saw that and didn't want to put himself or the program through something like that.


IMO his biggest mistake was hiring Jon to be QB coach. Not because he was his son but because Jon is so inexperienced. It has to be nearly impossible to succeed when your first positional coach job is coaching the most visible position on the field at one of the most visible universities in the country. Jon Richt needed to start somewhere much smaller to get his feet wet.

(01-11-2019 01:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I don't think Richt retiring was him falling on his sword to avoid firing his offensive staff. The article mentions that James had to convince him to stay the day before so retirement was already in his head. he probably looked at the Spurrier situation in South Carolina and how that ended and decided it's better to go out on his own terms now than slink out later. Spurrier let Ray Tanner talk him into one more season and he only made it halfway through it before he retired. I imagine Richt saw that and didn't want to put himself or the program through something like that.


IMO his biggest mistake was hiring Jon to be QB coach. Not because he was his son but because Jon is so inexperienced. It has to be nearly impossible to succeed when your first positional coach job is coaching the most visible position on the field at one of the most visible universities in the country. Jon Richt needed to start somewhere much smaller to get his feet wet.

Totally agree.

(01-11-2019 01:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I don't think Richt retiring was him falling on his sword to avoid firing his offensive staff. The article mentions that James had to convince him to stay the day before so retirement was already in his head. he probably looked at the Spurrier situation in South Carolina and how that ended and decided it's better to go out on his own terms now than slink out later. Spurrier let Ray Tanner talk him into one more season and he only made it halfway through it before he retired. I imagine Richt saw that and didn't want to put himself or the program through something like that.


IMO his biggest mistake was hiring Jon to be QB coach. Not because he was his son but because Jon is so inexperienced. It has to be nearly impossible to succeed when your first positional coach job is coaching the most visible position on the field at one of the most visible universities in the country. Jon Richt needed to start somewhere much smaller to get his feet wet.

You would think a guy with his contacts could have landed him somewhere.

(01-11-2019 04:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I don't think Richt retiring was him falling on his sword to avoid firing his offensive staff. The article mentions that James had to convince him to stay the day before so retirement was already in his head. he probably looked at the Spurrier situation in South Carolina and how that ended and decided it's better to go out on his own terms now than slink out later. Spurrier let Ray Tanner talk him into one more season and he only made it halfway through it before he retired. I imagine Richt saw that and didn't want to put himself or the program through something like that.


IMO his biggest mistake was hiring Jon to be QB coach. Not because he was his son but because Jon is so inexperienced. It has to be nearly impossible to succeed when your first positional coach job is coaching the most visible position on the field at one of the most visible universities in the country. Jon Richt needed to start somewhere much smaller to get his feet wet.

You would think a guy with his contacts could have landed him somewhere.

I don't think his coaching tree had anybody at that time who would have fit the bill.

I don't want it to seem I think Jon is a bad coach. I don't think that at all. From everything I have heard he's very knowledgeable, just very inexperienced. IMO a couple seasons in D2 or FCS would go a long way for him.

(01-11-2019 05:36 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 04:38 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 01:53 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  I don't think Richt retiring was him falling on his sword to avoid firing his offensive staff. The article mentions that James had to convince him to stay the day before so retirement was already in his head. he probably looked at the Spurrier situation in South Carolina and how that ended and decided it's better to go out on his own terms now than slink out later. Spurrier let Ray Tanner talk him into one more season and he only made it halfway through it before he retired. I imagine Richt saw that and didn't want to put himself or the program through something like that.


IMO his biggest mistake was hiring Jon to be QB coach. Not because he was his son but because Jon is so inexperienced. It has to be nearly impossible to succeed when your first positional coach job is coaching the most visible position on the field at one of the most visible universities in the country. Jon Richt needed to start somewhere much smaller to get his feet wet.

You would think a guy with his contacts could have landed him somewhere.

I don't think his coaching tree had anybody at that time who would have fit the bill.

I don't want it to seem I think Jon is a bad coach. I don't think that at all. From everything I have heard he's very knowledgeable, just very inexperienced. IMO a couple seasons in D2 or FCS would go a long way for him.

There seems to be this sense of hope that a father-son succession is feasible in college coaching. Yet, find one such duo in a major program where it ever happened...where people are still alive to tell about it.

It doesn't sound far off from Joe and Jay Paterno and what was going on there in Happy Valley. I mean, minus a whole lot of disgusting stuff away from the football field, but that sense of protection and legacy.

It's just not real. Not in higher education. Nobody goes from student to president never leaving the halls. Higher education is notoriously known for not doing the succession planning that you see in other sectors. It doesn't organically develop. You earn your stripes and move up hopping from place to place. Position coach goes to head coach without having HC'd or O/DC'd before? Not in FBS. Probably not in FCS either, at least, not in the top end of it. You're probably making that jump with a willing taker in the trenches of FCS, like Pioneer, Ivy, or one of the HBC conference. Or, someone sees your genius or potential in pro football. Not college.

(01-12-2019 09:32 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  It's just not real. Not in higher education. Nobody goes from student to president never leaving the halls. Higher education is notoriously known for not doing the succession planning that you see in other sectors. It doesn't organically develop. You earn your stripes and move up hopping from place to place. Position coach goes to head coach without having HC'd or O/DC'd before? Not in FBS. Probably not in FCS either, at least, not in the top end of it. You're probably making that jump with a willing taker in the trenches of FCS, like Pioneer, Ivy, or one of the HBC conference. Or, someone sees your genius or potential in pro football. Not college.

The HC who just won the national title was the WR coach and Recruiting Coordinator before he was promoted.

Clemson's other National Championship winning coach, Danny Ford, was the O-line coach before getting promoted.

(01-12-2019 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 09:32 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  It's just not real. Not in higher education. Nobody goes from student to president never leaving the halls. Higher education is notoriously known for not doing the succession planning that you see in other sectors. It doesn't organically develop. You earn your stripes and move up hopping from place to place. Position coach goes to head coach without having HC'd or O/DC'd before? Not in FBS. Probably not in FCS either, at least, not in the top end of it. You're probably making that jump with a willing taker in the trenches of FCS, like Pioneer, Ivy, or one of the HBC conference. Or, someone sees your genius or potential in pro football. Not college.

The HC who just won the national title was the WR coach and Recruiting Coordinator before he was promoted.

Clemson's other National Championship winning coach, Danny Ford, was the O-line coach before getting promoted.

His official title was Assistant Head Coach. Not exactly a big leap, but still impressive. Ford was more shocking because he was only there for a season.

Going back nearly 40 years to another era is sort of the point.

(01-12-2019 04:43 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 09:32 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  It's just not real. Not in higher education. Nobody goes from student to president never leaving the halls. Higher education is notoriously known for not doing the succession planning that you see in other sectors. It doesn't organically develop. You earn your stripes and move up hopping from place to place. Position coach goes to head coach without having HC'd or O/DC'd before? Not in FBS. Probably not in FCS either, at least, not in the top end of it. You're probably making that jump with a willing taker in the trenches of FCS, like Pioneer, Ivy, or one of the HBC conference. Or, someone sees your genius or potential in pro football. Not college.

The HC who just won the national title was the WR coach and Recruiting Coordinator before he was promoted.

Clemson's other National Championship winning coach, Danny Ford, was the O-line coach before getting promoted.

His official title was Assistant Head Coach. Not exactly a big leap, but still impressive. Ford was more shocking because he was only there for a season.

Going back nearly 40 years to another era is sort of the point.

The Assistant Head Coach title is a salary based title. You give it to someone you want to give a raise to.

Urban Meyer went from ND WR coach to HC @ Bowling Green and was never a coordinator.

PJ Fleck was never a coordinator before being named HC.

Pat Fitzgerald was LB coach before being promoted to HC.

Herm Edwards has never served as a coordinator.

Ed Orgeron has never served as a coordinator.

Chad Lunsford never served as a coordinator before being named HC at Georgia Southern.

Frank Wilson was never a coordinator before being named HC at UTSA.

Will Healy has never served as a coordinator before being named HC at Charlotte.

Doc Holliday has never served as a coordinator.

For something that doesn't happen it sure seems to have happened a bunch.

(01-13-2019 08:48 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The Assistant Head Coach title is a salary based title. You give it to someone you want to give a raise to.

You give it to someone who is a recognized leader in the program. Someone who gets to have a say in the program even though they may not be the HC or a coordinator. Heck, it's AHC to show it might be at the level or higher than a coordinator.

Of those you list below, all but Meyer had some coordinator title, AHC, special teams, or went through FCS, or experience in the pro game. They climbed the ranks. They moved around.

It is quite rare what Meyer did. However, considering he was known in central and southwestern Ohio, I'm not surprised an Ohio school gave him that shot. And, again, it's not like he didn't travel around (and move up along the way) to get him to that spot. He left a top school for a better position at a lower level one. When he succeeded, up the ladder he went.

Higher ed just isn't that kind of story where the mailroom clerk becomes the CEO. Across operations; it mirrors what its academic core endures. The nomad. And higher ed is nasty on the other front where "settling down" in a place draws its criticisms and issue labels.

(01-13-2019 10:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 08:48 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  The Assistant Head Coach title is a salary based title. You give it to someone you want to give a raise to.

You give it to someone who is a recognized leader in the program. Someone who gets to have a say in the program even though they may not be the HC or a coordinator. Heck, it's AHC to show it might be at the level or higher than a coordinator.

Of those you list below, all but Meyer had some coordinator title, AHC, special teams, or went through FCS, or experience in the pro game. They climbed the ranks. They moved around.

It is quite rare what Meyer did. However, considering he was known in central and southwestern Ohio, I'm not surprised an Ohio school gave him that shot. And, again, it's not like he didn't travel around (and move up along the way) to get him to that spot. He left a top school for a better position at a lower level one. When he succeeded, up the ladder he went.

Higher ed just isn't that kind of story where the mailroom clerk becomes the CEO. Across operations; it mirrors what its academic core endures. The nomad. And higher ed is nasty on the other front where "settling down" in a place draws its criticisms and issue labels.

LOL Keep moving them goalposts, it's not going to change the fact that you were wrong when you said: "Position coach goes to head coach without having HC'd or O/DC'd before? Not in FBS." You know it, I know it, and now everybody else knows it.

(01-14-2019 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  LOL Keep moving them goalposts..

Good, you get a medal. Extra gold star for your own goalpost moving on your liberal interpretation of AHC.

(01-14-2019 12:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  LOL Keep moving them goalposts..

Good, you get a medal. Extra gold star for your own goalpost moving on your liberal interpretation of AHC.

OK, I'll play.

What are the duties of an Associate Head Coach?

When Dabo was named Associate Head Coach at Clemson it was because he was getting feelers from other programs and it was the only way to give him a raise because we had an OC. He still answered to OC Rob Spence, still coached his WRs and still served as recruiting coordinator.

(01-14-2019 12:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 12:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  LOL Keep moving them goalposts..

Good, you get a medal. Extra gold star for your own goalpost moving on your liberal interpretation of AHC.

OK, I'll play.

What are the duties of an Associate Head Coach?

When Dabo was named Associate Head Coach at Clemson it was because he was getting feelers from other programs and it was the only way to give him a raise because we had an OC. He still answered to OC Rob Spence, still coached his WRs and still served as recruiting coordinator.

I always thought that titles like that were to make it easier to recruit.

"Mrs. Tagovailoa, I'm the Associate Head Coach and I want your son to come to Clemson."
That has more authority behind it than:
"Mrs. Tagovailoa, I'm the Wide Receivers Coach and I want your son to come to Clemson."

(01-14-2019 01:39 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 12:39 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 12:14 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 11:32 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  LOL Keep moving them goalposts..

Good, you get a medal. Extra gold star for your own goalpost moving on your liberal interpretation of AHC.

OK, I'll play.

What are the duties of an Associate Head Coach?

When Dabo was named Associate Head Coach at Clemson it was because he was getting feelers from other programs and it was the only way to give him a raise because we had an OC. He still answered to OC Rob Spence, still coached his WRs and still served as recruiting coordinator.

I always thought that titles like that were to make it easier to recruit.

"Mrs. Tagovailoa, I'm the Associate Head Coach and I want your son to come to Clemson."
That has more authority behind it than:
"Mrs. Tagovailoa, I'm the Wide Receivers Coach and I want your son to come to Clemson."

That may be part of it, but it's a small part.

Before Dabo Swinney got the Associate Head Coach title his responsibilities were to coach wide receivers, Coordinate recruiting operations of the staff, and recruit his assigned area.

After he got the AFC title his responsibilities were to coach wide receivers, coordinate recruiting operations of the staff and recruit his assigned area. He just got paid more money to do it.

I've usually interpreted associate head coaches as an assistant with more experience than a typical position coach who's trusted with administrative and/or recruiting duties crucial for the program to take off their boss' workload, sometimes on top of being a position coach themselves. I'm sure that varies by team, in some cases it might be a glorified title whereas it may carry weight elsewhere. If a head coach is known for being recruiter and motivator who defers to coordinators for game planning it might be the former, while an X's and O's guy might let assistants take on the nitty gritty work off the field.

Nevertheless, it seems that non-coordinator hires seem to fare worse than lower level head coaches, retreads, or coordinators. For every Urban Meyer or Doc Holliday you have at least a dozen Rob Ianellos. I'd be interested in seeing the data on that. It intuitively makes sense though, usually you see business openings filled from people who worked like roles at smaller companies or lower level workers at large companies.

Seems to me that it's a title that makes the non-coordinator feel wanted and justifies paying him more money.

(01-14-2019 09:23 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Seems to me that it's a title that makes the non-coordinator feel wanted and justifies paying him more money.

When Blake Anderson's wife was going through her first round of cancer treatments, assistant head coach also meant, interim head coach for the days he missed practices. Treatment wrapped up before the first game of 2017 so it never came into play for a game, but the assistant head coach was responsible for all the coaches meetings and sorting out the day's practice and adjusting the practice emphasis for the next day. Kept the coordinators from clashing.