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Orange Man Trumps the Dems
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stinkfist Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
tommy boy, here's another refresher for ewe sheeple....

https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/democr...ddle-east/

Quote:As the government shut down continues with the battle over border wall funding not yet resolved, the left’s hypocrisy on the issue continues to be revealed.

One example of this, of course, is that the Democrats have previously approved higher amounts of spending on a barrier of some form along the southern U.S. border.

Now, we have yet another example of how Democratic objections to funding the wall look more like a temper tantrum than an actual, legitimate concern.

In February 2016, Vice News reported that then-President Barack Obama helped the Middle Eastern country of Jordan with its construction of a border barrier to the tune of half a billion dollars.

Jordan wanted the wall to “stem the flow of refugees and also wall off the increasingly important (military) American base from the disintegration of Syria and Iraq,” the website reported.
01-10-2019 12:35 PM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
Tom is absolutely right and y'a'll have short memories. You love to applaud the expansion of presidential power when your guy is in office, but the next guy is going to use at least that and probably try to expand again.
01-10-2019 12:46 PM
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MemTigers1998 Online
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Post: #63
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
and just what do the liberals think they'll do in a national crisis on gun control? confiscate? 03-lmfao good luck
01-10-2019 12:52 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 12:04 PM)RobUCF Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:55 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:37 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:33 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Y'all just gonna love the National Emergency on the Environment and Gun Control.

Again, y'all keep building up the Presidency. Cause then what happens when you lose it.

Do you even know what the Constitution is bro?

Yep. And the same constitution and precedent you apply to the border will apply to gun control and the environment.

If its' constitutional for Trump to treat the declining violence at the border as a national emergency abrogating the separation of powers clause in the US constitution, its pretty damn clear that those same emergency powers can be applied to the environment and to guns.

Guys, the 2020 election cycle has already begun. You sure you want to heap a huge pile of new and unchecked powers onto the Presidency. That's a bold gamble guys, especially after the Dems won swing states like WI, MI, and PA by massive margins in the midterms.

Wrong again bro. A continued influx of illegals crossing the border adding to the 8-20 million already here absolutely constitute a national emergency. Gun violence does not.

Problem is that the definition of an emergency is not defined under the National Emergencies Act is not defined and an emergency is determined at the discretion of the president. So to state one case is and another case isn't has no real meaning.

I said in another thread that if trump did this the SC would hear challenges rather quickly and would probably clarify just what qualifies and why.

I have a hard time imagining a continuous line of illegal.immigrants overwhelming the system not being a national emergency. Gun issues on the other hand, seem to be a matter of how the current laws are enforced judging by the fact that some places that often have this highest gun ownership often have the lowest gun violence.
01-10-2019 01:20 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 05:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think both sides are totally f-ed up.

It's not a wall that we need, it's a reasonable and logical comprehensive immigration policy. The wall without such a policy is worthless. Such a policy without the wall is workable.

Problem is that the democrats see a wave of immigrant instant citizens as instant democrat voters. And so do republicans.

On what planet is this happening or EVER going to happen? 01-wingedeagle

Uh, California, for starters.

Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections


And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.

Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census
01-10-2019 01:32 PM
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bullet Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 12:09 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:05 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:55 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Yep. And the same constitution and precedent you apply to the border will apply to gun control and the environment.

If its' constitutional for Trump to treat the declining violence at the border as a national emergency abrogating the separation of powers clause in the US constitution, its pretty damn clear that those same emergency powers can be applied to the environment and to guns.

Guys, the 2020 election cycle has already begun. You sure you want to heap a huge pile of new and unchecked powers onto the Presidency. That's a bold gamble guys, especially after the Dems won swing states like WI, MI, and PA by massive margins in the midterms.

Wrong again bro. A continued influx of illegals crossing the border adding to the 8-20 million already here absolutely constitute a national emergency. Gun violence does not.

You are free to opine that. I'd just remind you that our Bill of Rights, which Trump wishes to abrogate, and our Separation of Powers clauses, which Trump wishes to abrogate....are just as much a part of the Constitution as the 2nd Amendment....and I think that the issue of gun violence and especially the environment are much more deadly.

The Democrats are the only ones ignoring the Bill of Rights. Obama tried his best to abrogate the Separation of Powers. Trump may be looking to spend money w/o Congressional authorization, but it seems like he prefers another way.

Man, you're spinning like crazy.

I think its your brain that has been spun. Freedom of speech? Right to keep and bear arms? Freedom of religion? Obama's endless executive edicts?
01-10-2019 01:50 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 01:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 05:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think both sides are totally f-ed up.

It's not a wall that we need, it's a reasonable and logical comprehensive immigration policy. The wall without such a policy is worthless. Such a policy without the wall is workable.

Problem is that the democrats see a wave of immigrant instant citizens as instant democrat voters. And so do republicans.

On what planet is this happening or EVER going to happen? 01-wingedeagle

Uh, California, for starters.

Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections


And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.

Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census

Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.
01-10-2019 01:56 PM
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SoMs Eagle Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 01:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 05:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think both sides are totally f-ed up.

It's not a wall that we need, it's a reasonable and logical comprehensive immigration policy. The wall without such a policy is worthless. Such a policy without the wall is workable.

Problem is that the democrats see a wave of immigrant instant citizens as instant democrat voters. And so do republicans.

On what planet is this happening or EVER going to happen? 01-wingedeagle

Uh, California, for starters.

Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections


And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.

Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census

Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.

Automatically putting them on the voting roll just for getting a drivers license doesn’t make them an instant citizen either. It sure increases the democrats votes though....
01-10-2019 02:01 PM
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umbluegray Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 01:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 05:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think both sides are totally f-ed up.

It's not a wall that we need, it's a reasonable and logical comprehensive immigration policy. The wall without such a policy is worthless. Such a policy without the wall is workable.

Problem is that the democrats see a wave of immigrant instant citizens as instant democrat voters. And so do republicans.

On what planet is this happening or EVER going to happen? 01-wingedeagle

Uh, California, for starters.

Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections


And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.

Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census

Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.

Thus the phrase "baby steps".

Would "slippery slope" have better made my point?
01-10-2019 03:27 PM
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UofMstateU Online
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Post: #70
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 12:46 PM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  Tom is absolutely right and y'a'll have short memories. You love to applaud the expansion of presidential power when your guy is in office, but the next guy is going to use at least that and probably try to expand again.

This power was already expanded. Years ago.
01-10-2019 05:01 PM
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NIUAlum90 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 03:27 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.

Thus the phrase "baby steps".

Would "slippery slope" have better made my point?


No, the phrase is now "theybies steps". The babies have not grown up enough to choose which gender, therefore all babies should be called theybies.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 05:04 PM by NIUAlum90.)
01-10-2019 05:04 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 01:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 05:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think both sides are totally f-ed up.
It's not a wall that we need, it's a reasonable and logical comprehensive immigration policy. The wall without such a policy is worthless. Such a policy without the wall is workable.
Problem is that the democrats see a wave of immigrant instant citizens as instant democrat voters. And so do republicans.
On what planet is this happening or EVER going to happen? 01-wingedeagle
Uh, California, for starters.
Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections

And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.
Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census
Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.

But does make them instant (presumably democrat) voters, which is all democrats care about.
01-10-2019 09:06 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 12:52 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  and just what do the liberals think they'll do in a national crisis on gun control? confiscate? 03-lmfao good luck

Looks like this could be what a gun national emergency could look like:

Ban the sale, transfer, or gifting of any firearm until a national registry of every firearm in the country can be established

Ban any and all open or concealed carry by any person not on duty as a licensed police officer while the emergency is going on

Seize all records of every gun dealer and gun range in the country

----

Sure, there would be a few Cliven Bundy's. Not that hard to deal with them. Start an insurrection and they'll fare no differently than others that have tried.

----

The President has been given extraordinary powers with the understanding that they will not be used to enact that which they cannot do without the support of the government or only in extreme cases. The border issue doesn't rise to that level. But hey, if you guys want to expand Presidential power....go ahead. But don't cry when the Dems take that power and enact gun control right after the first mass shooting of a Dem Administration.
01-10-2019 09:17 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 09:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 05:10 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  I think both sides are totally f-ed up.
It's not a wall that we need, it's a reasonable and logical comprehensive immigration policy. The wall without such a policy is worthless. Such a policy without the wall is workable.
Problem is that the democrats see a wave of immigrant instant citizens as instant democrat voters. And so do republicans.
On what planet is this happening or EVER going to happen? 01-wingedeagle
Uh, California, for starters.
Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections

And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.
Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census
Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.

But does make them instant (presumably democrat) voters, which is all democrats care about.

Bingo! Once you blur the line between who is registered to vote as an alien in a city election the sooner you can confuse the issue between citizens voting in general state and national elections and city elections. The very concept of an illegal having a say at any level of our government is asinine. The school ballots are just a ruse for the camel to get its nose under the national tent.
01-10-2019 09:19 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 09:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:52 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  and just what do the liberals think they'll do in a national crisis on gun control? confiscate? 03-lmfao good luck

Looks like this could be what a gun national emergency could look like:

Ban the sale, transfer, or gifting of any firearm until a national registry of every firearm in the country can be established

Ban any and all open or concealed carry by any person not on duty as a licensed police officer while the emergency is going on

Seize all records of every gun dealer and gun range in the country

----

Sure, there would be a few Cliven Bundy's. Not that hard to deal with them. Start an insurrection and they'll fare no differently than others that have tried.

----

The President has been given extraordinary powers with the understanding that they will not be used to enact that which they cannot do without the support of the government or only in extreme cases. The border issue doesn't rise to that level. But hey, if you guys want to expand Presidential power....go ahead. But don't cry when the Dems take that power and enact gun control right after the first mass shooting of a Dem Administration.

Quite the sick fantasy you have. Millions of illegals already here and hundreds of thousands more apprehended each year attempting to enter, not a crisis to you. 360m+ people and nearly 400m+ guns and one of the lowest homicide rates in the world (when certain democratic run havens of crime are removed) is a national emergency.

Why not stop fantasizing about potential problems and get on board to deal with the very real one occurring right now?
01-10-2019 09:22 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 09:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:52 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  and just what do the liberals think they'll do in a national crisis on gun control? confiscate? 03-lmfao good luck

Looks like this could be what a gun national emergency could look like:

Ban the sale, transfer, or gifting of any firearm until a national registry of every firearm in the country can be established

Ban any and all open or concealed carry by any person not on duty as a licensed police officer while the emergency is going on

Seize all records of every gun dealer and gun range in the country

----

Sure, there would be a few Cliven Bundy's. Not that hard to deal with them. Start an insurrection and they'll fare no differently than others that have tried.

----

The President has been given extraordinary powers with the understanding that they will not be used to enact that which they cannot do without the support of the government or only in extreme cases. The border issue doesn't rise to that level. But hey, if you guys want to expand Presidential power....go ahead. But don't cry when the Dems take that power and enact gun control right after the first mass shooting of a Dem Administration.

The fight in the Southeast alone would be formidable. How do you enforce a law that the local police will refuse to enact? You could send in the Feds, but it would be ugly.

You really really try to attack the constitutional rights of others for an agenda alien to the citizens of this country. I find you easily to be the most irresponsible and anti-American poster on this site and couldn't urge you more strongly to pursue your Globalist agenda from without our borders.

That said, the Emergencies Powers being spoken of have already been augmented under FEMA, and again in the Homeland Security Act. So any seated president, left or right, probably has more powers already than the Constitution ever intended them to have.

BTW: What you suggest with regards to firearms was exactly what Adolf Hitler did in Germany following the Reichstag fire. It truly frames your Globalist agenda for what it is.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 09:30 PM by JRsec.)
01-10-2019 09:29 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 09:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 09:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:19 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  On what planet is this happening or EVER going to happen? 01-wingedeagle
Uh, California, for starters.
Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections

And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.
Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census
Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.

But does make them instant (presumably democrat) voters, which is all democrats care about.

Bingo! Once you blur the line between who is registered to vote as an alien in a city election the sooner you can confuse the issue between citizens voting in general state and national elections and city elections. The very concept of an illegal having a say at any level of our government is asinine. The school ballots are just a ruse for the camel to get its nose under the national tent.

Dude, have you seen the voter participation rates for Mexican American citizens? Its extremely low.

The reason why white straight cisgendered conservative evangelicals can't win an election is that they've p*ssed off white liberals/moderates and African Americans to the point where virtually none of them will support the right wing anymore.

So what, SF allows all TAXPAYER residents to vote in school board elections. It wouldn't surprise me if that does expand.

BTW, is there any law preventing a state allowing all legal residents from voting? Not sure if there is. But then again, I suppose our founders allowed each state to set its own rules for voting right? If California or Minnesota or Virginia allows all residents to vote in state or federal elections...is there a prohibition on that?

Maybe states rights on voting rules might not be such a great idea...right?

---

Here's a compromise. Our side restricts voting by non-citizens in return for Federal legislation mandating

1) A nationwide voter registry mandating that every citizen be enrolled (unless they opt out actively) and have an absolute right to vote at their registered address on file
2) The ability of people to change their registered address online, without extra barriers by states
3) Mandated early voting, equal access to voting locations (meaning same lines in Dem and Rep areas), and transportation to those polling locations
4) Centralized voting locations in each county where every citizen can vote early or on election day, regardless of their actual precinct location.
5) Non-partisan district drawing, which uses the baseline of partisan vote of the last three elections prior to redistricting as the baseline for partisan makeup of the districts
6) Voting rights for every citizen not incarcerated
7) Online voting for expats and the military serving overseas. This includes mainland American residents and military living in Puerto Rico, the USVI, Guam, the CNMI, or American Samoa.
8) The ability of students to choose to register where they are residing for school or at their home address
9) A requirement that every election be won by the candidate with the most votes, with either a run off or an instant run off requirement
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 09:46 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
01-10-2019 09:29 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 09:29 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 09:19 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 09:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:56 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 01:32 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  Uh, California, for starters.
Baby steps...
Non-citizens legally register to vote in San Francisco school elections

And there's an effort to remove "are you a citizen" from the census.
Lawmaker aims to get citizenship question removed from U.S. census
Still does not make them citizens, much less instant ones.

But does make them instant (presumably democrat) voters, which is all democrats care about.

Bingo! Once you blur the line between who is registered to vote as an alien in a city election the sooner you can confuse the issue between citizens voting in general state and national elections and city elections. The very concept of an illegal having a say at any level of our government is asinine. The school ballots are just a ruse for the camel to get its nose under the national tent.

Dude, have you seen the voter participation rates for Mexican American citizens? Its extremely low.

The reason why white straight cisgendered conservative evangelicals can't win an election is that they've p*ssed off white liberals/moderates and African Americans to the point where virtually none of them will support the right wing anymore.

So what, SF allows all TAXPAYER residents to vote in school board elections. It wouldn't surprise me if that does expand.

BTW, is there any law preventing a state allowing all legal residents from voting? Not sure if there is. But then again, I suppose our founders allowed each state to set its own rules for voting right? If California or Minnesota or Virginia allows all residents to vote in state or federal elections...is there a prohibition on that?

Maybe states rights on voting rules might not be such a great idea...right?

It's the same litany of all whom you hate isn't it Tom? There are Federal Election laws, State election laws, and Local election laws. The problem in most states is that it's the same voter registration logs used at all precincts for all elections. Therein will lie the efficacy or confusion of the San Francisco issue permitting illegals to register and vote in school matters.

But lies and manipulations to support whatever it is that you desire is pretty standard fare for you Tom and that's where your credibility falls flat. You don't want the same rights for all citizens at all. You only want citizens to have rights that favor you and harm your adversaries. It's clear in almost every post how little objectivity you display. That's what I find to be particularly un-American and very much fascist.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 09:48 PM by JRsec.)
01-10-2019 09:39 PM
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Crebman Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 12:11 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:07 PM)SoMs Eagle Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:02 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:55 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:41 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Yep. And the same constitution and precedent you apply to the border will apply to gun control and the environment.

If its' constitutional for Trump to treat the declining violence at the border as a national emergency abrogating the separation of powers clause in the US constitution, its pretty damn clear that those same emergency powers can be applied to the environment and to guns.

Guys, the 2020 election cycle has already begun. You sure you want to heap a huge pile of new and unchecked powers onto the Presidency. That's a bold gamble guys, especially after the Dems won swing states like WI, MI, and PA by massive margins in the midterms.

Wrong again bro. A continued influx of illegals crossing the border adding to the 8-20 million already here absolutely constitute a national emergency. Gun violence does not.

You are free to opine that. I'd just remind you that our Bill of Rights, which Trump wishes to abrogate, and our Separation of Powers clauses, which Trump wishes to abrogate....are just as much a part of the Constitution as the 2nd Amendment....and I think that the issue of gun violence and especially the environment are much more deadly.

Do you not understand DEMOCRATS passed the bill authorizing the president to do this? So it’s actually the democrats fault if he does it.

The Dems incorrectly thought that the American people would never put a President in power like Trump. And if they did, that the Senate would impeach him or the Cabinet would remove him.

But.

If Trump uses those powers, expect the Dems to do the same when in power. Full stop.

This is actually one of these cases where it may very well be legally within the President’s given powers to declare the “National Emergency” and I’m not sure I would blame Trump too much if he used it. But as you stated, I’d really rather not open the floodgates to this because as you said, I don’t want it invoked on some other issues.

What I really wish is that Congress would do it’s job and fund the wall in return for some concessions that the Dems want. Unfortunately, it appears that the Democratic plan is to thwart Trump at all costs even if they could likely get some DACA concessions , etc. in a bargain.

Congress in general has chosen that almost always doing nothing but talk is preferable to doing anything and attaching their name to anything lest it come back to bite them. General paralysis........
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 09:45 PM by Crebman.)
01-10-2019 09:43 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
Just an old rugby coach
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Post: #80
RE: Orange Man Trumps the Dems
(01-10-2019 09:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:52 PM)MemTigers1998 Wrote:  and just what do the liberals think they'll do in a national crisis on gun control? confiscate? 03-lmfao good luck
Looks like this could be what a gun national emergency could look like:
Ban the sale, transfer, or gifting of any firearm until a national registry of every firearm in the country can be established
Ban any and all open or concealed carry by any person not on duty as a licensed police officer while the emergency is going on
Seize all records of every gun dealer and gun range in the country

Dear God, please don't let your ilk ever get the power to implement this.

Would you really want to live in that country? Seriously? I wouldn't. No way.
01-11-2019 02:36 AM
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