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Claw Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 09:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Why would a high ranking official in the trump campaign be giving internal polling data to Russians if not to be used by them to try and effect our election?

And if you say, we don't know it was internal data, why would he need to give them public data when it's already public?

Inquiring minds want to know...what did the current president know and when did he know it?

Quote:Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been accused of sharing polling data during the 2016 presidential election with a business associate allegedly linked to Russian intelligence -- and then lying about it to prosecutors.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team said Manafort “lied about sharing polling data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign.” The accusation was revealed by mistake in a defense filing Tuesday after the information wasn’t properly redacted as intended.

The filing sheds light on Manafort’s ties to Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian-Ukrainian businessman who was charged last year with tampering with potential witnesses. The U.S. claims Kilimnik is linked to Russian intelligence, which is accused of leading the election interference effort in 2016, but he denies those ties.
Manafort accused of sharing polling data with Russian allegedly linked to Kremlin

The why is actually quite simple.

Russia, we are going to win this election and you will be dealing with us.

We want to discuss x, y, and z with you. Please be ready to talk.
01-09-2019 11:24 AM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 10:05 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?

Not the issue.

I thought that there needed to be a crime to investigate to have a Special Counsel in the first place...?

[Image: giphy.gif]
01-09-2019 12:11 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 10:16 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Why would a high ranking official in the trump campaign be giving internal polling data to Russians if not to be used by them to try and effect our election?

And if you say, we don't know it was internal data, why would he need to give them public data when it's already public?

Inquiring minds want to know...what did the current president know and when did he know it?

Quote:Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been accused of sharing polling data during the 2016 presidential election with a business associate allegedly linked to Russian intelligence -- and then lying about it to prosecutors.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team said Manafort “lied about sharing polling data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign.” The accusation was revealed by mistake in a defense filing Tuesday after the information wasn’t properly redacted as intended.

The filing sheds light on Manafort’s ties to Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian-Ukrainian businessman who was charged last year with tampering with potential witnesses. The U.S. claims Kilimnik is linked to Russian intelligence, which is accused of leading the election interference effort in 2016, but he denies those ties.
Manafort accused of sharing polling data with Russian allegedly linked to Kremlin

Accused
Sharing
Internal poling data
Alleged

So a person ACCUSED of SHARING INTERNAL poling data with a business associate ALLEGEDLY linked to Russian Intelligence.

We have someone who supposedly shared non classified information with someone we think is somehow connected to Russia.....

THAT certainly screams high crimes and misdemeanors doesn't it..... (sarcasm)

No, but so what? Nobody here is talking about articles of impeachment.
01-09-2019 12:13 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 11:09 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 10:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Those goal post.........


They a movin

Yeah, it would have been nice if the Muller investigation hadn't constantly moved the goal post and just stuck with the agenda, i.e. Russian collusion. Instead we have guys brought up on charges of taxes, process crimes, etc. I guess it is just the Democrat way to shift the argument to suit their need.

A G A I N, go back and read the document authorizing the special counsel. Collusion is not mentioned.
01-09-2019 12:15 PM
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Post: #25
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?
Not the issue.

So what is the issue?

Looks like, hey, let’s just keep throwing irrelevant or immaterial stuff up on the wall, and hope to keep Trump too distracted or preoccupied to function.
01-09-2019 01:25 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 12:15 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 11:09 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 10:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Those goal post.........


They a movin

Yeah, it would have been nice if the Muller investigation hadn't constantly moved the goal post and just stuck with the agenda, i.e. Russian collusion. Instead we have guys brought up on charges of taxes, process crimes, etc. I guess it is just the Democrat way to shift the argument to suit their need.

A G A I N, go back and read the document authorizing the special counsel. Collusion is not mentioned.

A G A I N, was it to go out to see if you can find someone guilty of 10 year old tax issues, NYC taxi cab issues, or try to catch up some people in process crimes that didn't exist prior to your involvement? You know ... stuff that didn't have anything even remotely to do with Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential Election.

Why don't you fill us all in here Columbo on what he was SUPPOSED to be looking at before he apparently decided to go after anything he could either find or if nothing else, create.
01-09-2019 01:26 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?
Not the issue.

So what is the issue?

Looks like, hey, let’s just keep throwing irrelevant or immaterial stuff up on the wall, and hope to keep Trump too distracted or preoccupied to function.

Gee...I dunno...maybe a senior trump official giving RNC data to Russians for a social media campaign to help the RNC candidate win the election. If that's not a crime, then fine. But I'd like to have you make the case that you'd be totally fine with any democrat doing the same thing in the future. I'll hang up and wait for that defense.......
01-09-2019 02:09 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 01:26 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 12:15 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 11:09 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 10:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Those goal post.........


They a movin

Yeah, it would have been nice if the Muller investigation hadn't constantly moved the goal post and just stuck with the agenda, i.e. Russian collusion. Instead we have guys brought up on charges of taxes, process crimes, etc. I guess it is just the Democrat way to shift the argument to suit their need.

A G A I N, go back and read the document authorizing the special counsel. Collusion is not mentioned.

A G A I N, was it to go out to see if you can find someone guilty of 10 year old tax issues, NYC taxi cab issues, or try to catch up some people in process crimes that didn't exist prior to your involvement? You know ... stuff that didn't have anything even remotely to do with Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential Election.

Why don't you fill us all in here Columbo on what he was SUPPOSED to be looking at before he apparently decided to go after anything he could either find or if nothing else, create.

Read the authorization. I believe the title includes Russian interference in the 2016 election and other matters. If data was given to the Russians to interfere in our election, this is precisely what the SC was supposed to investigate. And I'm not even a lawyer and I still know that regardless of what a SC is formed for, that if they find criminal activity, they still investigate it and refer it. Either through the feds or through the locals as we're seeing with courts in DC, VA and NY.
01-09-2019 02:13 PM
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Post: #29
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 02:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?
Not the issue.

So what is the issue?

Looks like, hey, let’s just keep throwing irrelevant or immaterial stuff up on the wall, and hope to keep Trump too distracted or preoccupied to function.

Gee...I dunno...maybe a senior trump official giving RNC data to Russians for a social media campaign to help the RNC candidate win the election. If that's not a crime, then fine. But I'd like to have you make the case that you'd be totally fine with any democrat doing the same thing in the future. I'll hang up and wait for that defense.......

There are a lot of assumptions there. No mention in any article that it was RNC data. We dont even know whether it was public or private polling data, whether the allegatiom is even true that he shared anything, that the Ukrainian businessman is actually a Russian asset, that Manafort knew he was a russian asset and not just an associate of manafort, and further that the data was shared with the purpose of having russia aid the Trump campaign.
01-09-2019 02:25 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 12:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 10:05 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?

Not the issue.

I thought that there needed to be a crime to investigate to have a Special Counsel in the first place...?

[Image: giphy.gif]

You sure about that?

§ 600.1 Grounds for appointing a Special Counsel.
The Attorney General, or in cases in which the Attorney General is recused, the Acting Attorney General, will appoint a Special Counsel when he or she determines that criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted and -

(a) That investigation or prosecution of that person or matter by a United States Attorney's Office or litigating Division of the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest for the Department or other extraordinary circumstances; and

(b) That under the circumstances, it would be in the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel to assume responsibility for the matter.
01-09-2019 02:27 PM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 12:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 10:16 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Why would a high ranking official in the trump campaign be giving internal polling data to Russians if not to be used by them to try and effect our election?

And if you say, we don't know it was internal data, why would he need to give them public data when it's already public?

Inquiring minds want to know...what did the current president know and when did he know it?

Quote:Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been accused of sharing polling data during the 2016 presidential election with a business associate allegedly linked to Russian intelligence -- and then lying about it to prosecutors.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team said Manafort “lied about sharing polling data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign.” The accusation was revealed by mistake in a defense filing Tuesday after the information wasn’t properly redacted as intended.

The filing sheds light on Manafort’s ties to Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian-Ukrainian businessman who was charged last year with tampering with potential witnesses. The U.S. claims Kilimnik is linked to Russian intelligence, which is accused of leading the election interference effort in 2016, but he denies those ties.
Manafort accused of sharing polling data with Russian allegedly linked to Kremlin

Accused
Sharing
Internal poling data
Alleged

So a person ACCUSED of SHARING INTERNAL poling data with a business associate ALLEGEDLY linked to Russian Intelligence.

We have someone who supposedly shared non classified information with someone we think is somehow connected to Russia.....

THAT certainly screams high crimes and misdemeanors doesn't it..... (sarcasm)

No, but so what? Nobody here is talking about articles of impeachment.

Then why continue the "special investigation"?

If this is the BEST it can come up with to "prove" Trump did something illegal than it's been a huge wast of time & taxpayer money.

If this is the BEST it can come up with then it's time to put this farce to a halt.
01-09-2019 03:07 PM
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Redwingtom Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 02:25 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 02:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?
Not the issue.

So what is the issue?

Looks like, hey, let’s just keep throwing irrelevant or immaterial stuff up on the wall, and hope to keep Trump too distracted or preoccupied to function.

Gee...I dunno...maybe a senior trump official giving RNC data to Russians for a social media campaign to help the RNC candidate win the election. If that's not a crime, then fine. But I'd like to have you make the case that you'd be totally fine with any democrat doing the same thing in the future. I'll hang up and wait for that defense.......

There are a lot of assumptions there. No mention in any article that it was RNC data. We dont even know whether it was public or private polling data, whether the allegatiom is even true that he shared anything, that the Ukrainian businessman is actually a Russian asset, that Manafort knew he was a russian asset and not just an associate of manafort, and further that the data was shared with the purpose of having russia aid the Trump campaign.

Yes, but why would Manafort need to give anyone information that is already public?
01-09-2019 03:30 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 03:30 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 02:25 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 02:09 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 01:25 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Not the issue.
So what is the issue?
Looks like, hey, let’s just keep throwing irrelevant or immaterial stuff up on the wall, and hope to keep Trump too distracted or preoccupied to function.
Gee...I dunno...maybe a senior trump official giving RNC data to Russians for a social media campaign to help the RNC candidate win the election. If that's not a crime, then fine. But I'd like to have you make the case that you'd be totally fine with any democrat doing the same thing in the future. I'll hang up and wait for that defense.......
There are a lot of assumptions there. No mention in any article that it was RNC data. We dont even know whether it was public or private polling data, whether the allegatiom is even true that he shared anything, that the Ukrainian businessman is actually a Russian asset, that Manafort knew he was a russian asset and not just an associate of manafort, and further that the data was shared with the purpose of having russia aid the Trump campaign.
Yes, but why would Manafort need to give anyone information that is already public?

Why not?
01-09-2019 04:53 PM
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ODU BBALL Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 02:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 01:26 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 12:15 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 11:09 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 10:54 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Those goal post.........


They a movin

Yeah, it would have been nice if the Muller investigation hadn't constantly moved the goal post and just stuck with the agenda, i.e. Russian collusion. Instead we have guys brought up on charges of taxes, process crimes, etc. I guess it is just the Democrat way to shift the argument to suit their need.

A G A I N, go back and read the document authorizing the special counsel. Collusion is not mentioned.

A G A I N, was it to go out to see if you can find someone guilty of 10 year old tax issues, NYC taxi cab issues, or try to catch up some people in process crimes that didn't exist prior to your involvement? You know ... stuff that didn't have anything even remotely to do with Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential Election.

Why don't you fill us all in here Columbo on what he was SUPPOSED to be looking at before he apparently decided to go after anything he could either find or if nothing else, create.

Read the authorization. I believe the title includes Russian interference in the 2016 election and other matters. If data was given to the Russians to interfere in our election, this is precisely what the SC was supposed to investigate. And I'm not even a lawyer and I still know that regardless of what a SC is formed for, that if they find criminal activity, they still investigate it and refer it. Either through the feds or through the locals as we're seeing with courts in DC, VA and NY.

Yeah, your left wing Liberal bias either won't allow you to see the forest for the trees on this, or you can't allow yourself to admit that Muller and his team are not investigating a crime, but in search of a crime - any crime they can find in fact.
01-09-2019 05:32 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 05:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 02:13 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 01:26 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 12:15 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 11:09 AM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  Yeah, it would have been nice if the Muller investigation hadn't constantly moved the goal post and just stuck with the agenda, i.e. Russian collusion. Instead we have guys brought up on charges of taxes, process crimes, etc. I guess it is just the Democrat way to shift the argument to suit their need.

A G A I N, go back and read the document authorizing the special counsel. Collusion is not mentioned.

A G A I N, was it to go out to see if you can find someone guilty of 10 year old tax issues, NYC taxi cab issues, or try to catch up some people in process crimes that didn't exist prior to your involvement? You know ... stuff that didn't have anything even remotely to do with Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential Election.

Why don't you fill us all in here Columbo on what he was SUPPOSED to be looking at before he apparently decided to go after anything he could either find or if nothing else, create.

Read the authorization. I believe the title includes Russian interference in the 2016 election and other matters. If data was given to the Russians to interfere in our election, this is precisely what the SC was supposed to investigate. And I'm not even a lawyer and I still know that regardless of what a SC is formed for, that if they find criminal activity, they still investigate it and refer it. Either through the feds or through the locals as we're seeing with courts in DC, VA and NY.

Yeah, your left wing Liberal bias either won't allow you to see the forest for the trees on this, or you can't allow yourself to admit that Muller and his team are not investigating a crime, but in search of a crime - any crime they can find in fact.
Or set people up who have committed no crime to commit one in front of them that they have no resources to defend themselves against.
01-09-2019 05:39 PM
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UofMTigerTim Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Collusion?
Just think the money spent on this special council already could have fully funded the wall.
01-09-2019 05:51 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 02:27 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 12:11 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 10:05 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:51 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?

Not the issue.

I thought that there needed to be a crime to investigate to have a Special Counsel in the first place...?

[Image: giphy.gif]

You sure about that?

§ 600.1 Grounds for appointing a Special Counsel.
The Attorney General, or in cases in which the Attorney General is recused, the Acting Attorney General, will appoint a Special Counsel when he or she determines that criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted and -

(a) That investigation or prosecution of that person or matter by a United States Attorney's Office or litigating Division of the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest for the Department or other extraordinary circumstances; and

(b) That under the circumstances, it would be in the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel to assume responsibility for the matter.

I'm not a lawyer but I have watched Law & Order a couple times but doesn't a criminal investigation mean that there's a crime to investigate?
01-09-2019 06:36 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)UTSAMarineVet09 Wrote:  What crime was committed?

The only possible crime is if he lied to the Feds that he did so. Otherwise, last I checked this is still a free Country and we are free to speak with anyone we want about damn near anything we want.

Even if it's classified apparently these days. 07-coffee3
01-09-2019 06:37 PM
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JMUDunk Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 09:50 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:49 AM)No Bull Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:39 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Why would a high ranking official in the trump campaign be giving internal polling data to Russians if not to be used by them to try and effect our election?

And if you say, we don't know it was internal data, why would he need to give them public data when it's already public?

Inquiring minds want to know...what did the current president know and when did he know it?

Quote:Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort has been accused of sharing polling data during the 2016 presidential election with a business associate allegedly linked to Russian intelligence -- and then lying about it to prosecutors.

Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s team said Manafort “lied about sharing polling data with Mr. Kilimnik related to the 2016 presidential campaign.” The accusation was revealed by mistake in a defense filing Tuesday after the information wasn’t properly redacted as intended.

The filing sheds light on Manafort’s ties to Konstantin Kilimnik, a Russian-Ukrainian businessman who was charged last year with tampering with potential witnesses. The U.S. claims Kilimnik is linked to Russian intelligence, which is accused of leading the election interference effort in 2016, but he denies those ties.
Manafort accused of sharing polling data with Russian allegedly linked to Kremlin

Manafort should have just given them the link to real clear politics. also sorts of polling data there...

[Image: mueller-trump-supporters-01.jpg]

Bingo. They why wouldn't he have? Why the need to give them anything? It makes no sense. Unless....

May have been confidential internal numbers he had access to. Would that be a betrayal of his Boss and rather unethical thing to do? Yea. Illegal? Errrrrr, no.

So, please, oh please, oh please. Lets start going after every Pol or Pol operative in DeeCee on ethical issues.

You wanna see a Gov't shutdown, there wouldn't be anyone left. 03-lmfao
01-09-2019 06:42 PM
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Post: #40
RE: Collusion?
(01-09-2019 10:15 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Cult is going to cult......

Nothing to see here RWT......


I had this years ago btw. Cambridge analytics is nuts deep in this mess.

What IS there to see here?
01-09-2019 06:44 PM
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