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Dixie State to join WAC
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-18-2019 02:38 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 01:31 AM)AZcats Wrote:  [Image: Dumke_Drone.jpg?width=1016&heigh...;mode=crop]

Wait, that field is built on TOP of a parking garage? That's almost as cool as the high school team that plays on the Arctic Ocean.

Yep, you enter from the road in the upper left of the picture. A genius idea when you have no spare land available.
01-18-2019 04:49 PM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
Getting back to the topic at hand, I think Dixie State is a good add. Let the WAC become the WESTERN Athletic Conference again.

Even though they don't have a place to go now, New Mexico State will jump for the first FBS conference that takes them.
Chicago State is still on a limited time basis by contract. Once they are no longer needed for survival, I don't see them getting renewed.
Missouri-Kansas City. WAC fans were very pleasantly surprised when they moved over. But without any nearby schools (Denver?, ORU? UNO? or ???) I don't know if they would want to stick around. Won't get kicked out like Chicago State, but I wouldn't be shocked if they jumped to a more regional conference.
Texas-RGV is in the same boat. Won't get kicked out, but would probably love to be in a more regional conference.
Seattle would love to be back in the WCC (doubtful with Gonzaga) or even the Mountain West (they want into Texas currently) so I doubt they would be leaving soon. If the WAC can get a travel partner for them (Western Washington? Central Washington?) perhaps they become less of a flight risk.

I'd like to see one more school in California. A school or two in Colorado. And if the Alaska twins could move up together, I'd like to see them as well.
01-18-2019 05:32 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #143
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-18-2019 05:32 PM)TardisCaptain Wrote:  Getting back to the topic at hand, I think Dixie State is a good add. Let the WAC become the WESTERN Athletic Conference again.

Even though they don't have a place to go now, New Mexico State will jump for the first FBS conference that takes them.
Chicago State is still on a limited time basis by contract. Once they are no longer needed for survival, I don't see them getting renewed.
Missouri-Kansas City. WAC fans were very pleasantly surprised when they moved over. But without any nearby schools (Denver?, ORU? UNO? or ???) I don't know if they would want to stick around. Won't get kicked out like Chicago State, but I wouldn't be shocked if they jumped to a more regional conference.
Texas-RGV is in the same boat. Won't get kicked out, but would probably love to be in a more regional conference.
Seattle would love to be back in the WCC (doubtful with Gonzaga) or even the Mountain West (they want into Texas currently) so I doubt they would be leaving soon. If the WAC can get a travel partner for them (Western Washington? Central Washington?) perhaps they become less of a flight risk.

I'd like to see one more school in California. A school or two in Colorado. And if the Alaska twins could move up together, I'd like to see them as well.

It should be a solid no for the Alaska twins--we want to shrink the WAC footprint not expand it.

I agree with your proposition of a second CA school and I think Azusa Pacific fits the bill in terms of enrollment, history with Cal Bapt, and its status as a private school uninhibited by legislature imposed travel bans.

I also think Colorado is a state the WAC needs to be in and preferably they grab a pair for travel purposes. Candidate schools need to have an enrollment of 10K which means there's about 4 possibilities--2 play FB and 2 don't.

I also see Seattle that will be barred from WCC membership as long as Gonzaga is a member. Getting them a travel partner in CWU or WWU would ease some burdens and make a weekend trip up there more worth while.

If the WAC can get 2 more commitments in the early 2020s then they should part ways with Chicago St. UMKC and UTRGV should be welcome to stay but given notice that they aren't considered part of the geogragrahic core and no schools near them will be added.
01-18-2019 05:48 PM
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Post: #144
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-18-2019 04:41 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 04:32 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 03:07 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The WAC finally seems to be building a geographic core around UVU, Dixie St, GCU, and Cal Bapt. This core includes teams that don't pose huge flight risks. I hope they are able to continue to find members that will be long term. Not to go David St but these are the types of D2 schools that could help build that brand:

Azusa Pacific--travel partner for Cal Bapt
CWU/WWU--travel partner for Seattle
Some of the bigger Colorado schools--Metro St, CSU Peublo, Colorado Mesa, UC Colorado Springs

Phase out Chi St. UMKC, and UTRGV as opportunities arise for them. Let the 4 Corners States and Southern California be your foundation.

Avoid Texas--there's just too large a geographic bridge between NMSU and UTRGV.


West Texas A&M, Angelo State and UTPB are closer to the core of the WAC.

I might be willing to concede West Texas A&M but UTPB is a very young school.

I guess it depends on whether the existing membership thinks that FCS football is going to be the life force of the conference. Right now it's far easier to just recruit non-football schools and have everyone committing their resources to basketball.

If FCS is a must (which I don't think many schools believe since only the newest member would even have a team) your membership recruiting base shifts to APU, CWU, and CO and TX schools who have D2 FB programs.


In the December link about Dixie State, the WAC is looking to restart sponsorship of football again. Tarleton State and Colorado Mesa do have football. Then, you have to look at all the possible D2 football schools.
01-18-2019 06:47 PM
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Post: #145
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
Unless Chicago State shuts down or UMKC somehow bolts to the Summit League, I don't see any reason they should invite Metro State, Western Washington, Northwest Fort Worth State University or any other DII.
(This post was last modified: 01-19-2019 04:15 AM by AuzGrams.)
01-19-2019 04:15 AM
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Post: #146
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-18-2019 04:49 PM)AZcats Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 02:38 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  
(01-18-2019 01:31 AM)AZcats Wrote:  [Image: Dumke_Drone.jpg?width=1016&heigh...;mode=crop]

Wait, that field is built on TOP of a parking garage? That's almost as cool as the high school team that plays on the Arctic Ocean.

Yep, you enter from the road in the upper left of the picture. A genius idea when you have no spare land available.

I can see my old house (or at least the trees). Westminster playing football? 01-wingedeagle
01-19-2019 09:21 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #147
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-19-2019 04:15 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Unless Chicago State shuts down or UMKC somehow bolts to the Summit League, I don't see any reason they should invite Metro State, Western Washington, Northwest Fort Worth State University or any other DII.

They need more schools--10 would be ideal. 12 would give them some spares should there be defections.

Chicago St isn't like a typical conference member. They are signed to a contract for a period of years and the conference can release them if they no longer need them at the end of the contract.

They are poor, a geographic outlier, and an RPI drag. Bringing in a more suitable school would be ideal.
01-19-2019 11:41 AM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-19-2019 11:41 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 04:15 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Unless Chicago State shuts down or UMKC somehow bolts to the Summit League, I don't see any reason they should invite Metro State, Western Washington, Northwest Fort Worth State University or any other DII.

They need more schools--10 would be ideal. 12 would give them some spares should there be defections.

Chicago St isn't like a typical conference member. They are signed to a contract for a period of years and the conference can release them if they no longer need them at the end of the contract.

They are poor, a geographic outlier, and an RPI drag. Bringing in a more suitable school would be ideal.

Your correct, the WAC does want to get to 10 schools. You are also correct about Chicago State being an RPI drag. The WAC is currently ranked at #15 in RPI out of 32 conferences, just ahead of the MWC and behind the MVC at 14. Chicago State is at #345 out of 353 schools.

Chicago State is a typical conference member. They are a full member of the WAC. Their location in Chicago is not a problem. It is fairly easy to get a direct flight to Chicago.

Chicago State was supposed to add men's soccer, but that was put on hold during the state budget crisis. I am not sure where that is at? With their 12 soccer schools (7 from the WAC, 3 from the MWC, 2 from the Southland) in the conference, the WAC does not really need Chicago State men's soccer.
01-19-2019 03:27 PM
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Post: #149
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
Right. Chicago St’s problem isn’t their location, it’s everything else. No support and horrible teams are their issue.
01-19-2019 04:26 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #150
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-19-2019 03:27 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 11:41 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 04:15 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Unless Chicago State shuts down or UMKC somehow bolts to the Summit League, I don't see any reason they should invite Metro State, Western Washington, Northwest Fort Worth State University or any other DII.

They need more schools--10 would be ideal. 12 would give them some spares should there be defections.

Chicago St isn't like a typical conference member. They are signed to a contract for a period of years and the conference can release them if they no longer need them at the end of the contract.

They are poor, a geographic outlier, and an RPI drag. Bringing in a more suitable school would be ideal.

Your correct, the WAC does want to get to 10 schools. You are also correct about Chicago State being an RPI drag. The WAC is currently ranked at #15 in RPI out of 32 conferences, just ahead of the MWC and behind the MVC at 14. Chicago State is at #345 out of 353 schools.

Chicago State is a typical conference member. They are a full member of the WAC. Their location in Chicago is not a problem. It is fairly easy to get a direct flight to Chicago.

Chicago State was supposed to add men's soccer, but that was put on hold during the state budget crisis. I am not sure where that is at? With their 12 soccer schools (7 from the WAC, 3 from the MWC, 2 from the Southland) in the conference, the WAC does not really need Chicago State men's soccer.

I'm not going to go find you the article, that's what the Internet is for, but Chicago St isn't a permanent member. They were signed on for a set period of time. The contract can be renewed but the WAC has the option to not renew them.
01-19-2019 06:35 PM
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SoCalBobcat78 Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
(01-19-2019 06:35 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 03:27 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 11:41 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-19-2019 04:15 AM)AuzGrams Wrote:  Unless Chicago State shuts down or UMKC somehow bolts to the Summit League, I don't see any reason they should invite Metro State, Western Washington, Northwest Fort Worth State University or any other DII.

They need more schools--10 would be ideal. 12 would give them some spares should there be defections.

Chicago St isn't like a typical conference member. They are signed to a contract for a period of years and the conference can release them if they no longer need them at the end of the contract.

They are poor, a geographic outlier, and an RPI drag. Bringing in a more suitable school would be ideal.

Your correct, the WAC does want to get to 10 schools. You are also correct about Chicago State being an RPI drag. The WAC is currently ranked at #15 in RPI out of 32 conferences, just ahead of the MWC and behind the MVC at 14. Chicago State is at #345 out of 353 schools.

Chicago State is a typical conference member. They are a full member of the WAC. Their location in Chicago is not a problem. It is fairly easy to get a direct flight to Chicago.

Chicago State was supposed to add men's soccer, but that was put on hold during the state budget crisis. I am not sure where that is at? With their 12 soccer schools (7 from the WAC, 3 from the MWC, 2 from the Southland) in the conference, the WAC does not really need Chicago State men's soccer.

I'm not going to go find you the article, that's what the Internet is for, but Chicago St isn't a permanent member. They were signed on for a set period of time. The contract can be renewed but the WAC has the option to not renew them.

Upon joining the conference, Chicago State had a five year commitment or contract to the WAC and had to pay a $450,000 entry fee. They had certain things they needed to do, like adding a men's soccer team. That never happened. The five year contract date has passed and they are here to stay. UTRGV had a similar agreement and they added both men's and women's soccer.

If and when the WAC decides to ask Chicago State to leave, the easy way to do that is simply require each school to spend a minimum on athletics. At this point in time, that will not happen. But it could down the road.
01-19-2019 08:13 PM
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Post: #152
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
Chicago State could be safe until 2024, when Dixie State completes their transition. I would expect the WAC to bring in another member in 2022 when Cal Baptist completes its transition, which will give the WAC 10 members, 8 active and 2 transitional (Dixie State and the new school). In 2024 another school gets added from Division II as Chicago State gets the boot.

WAC July 1, 2024:
New Mexico State
Seattle
Utah Valley
Grand Canyon
UTRGV
UMKC
Cal Baptist
Dixie State (new active Division I member)
New school 2022 (transitional until June 30, 2026)
New school 2024 (transitional until June 30, 2028)

The school that joins in 2022 will also be good insurance for New Mexico State, in case NMSU finds a home in 2026 as the new CFP contract begins.
01-19-2019 10:17 PM
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Post: #153
RE: Dixie State to join WAC
I used to think that virtually all WAC members would leave at first chance. But in basketball, so many teams have improved so much in the past few years, and the WAC is in a good spot in the RPI rankings, it's starting to make jumping ship less likely.

Utrvg is a good example. Yes, the Southland is possibly the most logical conference for them, but looking at how sad the Southland is, taking a step down that far becomes less likely. Utrvg basketball has been improving, but good luck getting the same recruits to come play in the Southland.
01-20-2019 11:51 PM
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