Nobody in the Big Sky is leaving for the WAC or anywhere else. The WAC is for schools that are actually trying, while the Big Sky is a pathetic holding tank for the west's least ambitious universities. In order to leave, a Big Sky member would first need to be able to fog a mirror.

(01-11-2019 09:25 PM)MidWestMidMajor Wrote:  I am guessing that DSU is being motivated by the most important competition for most universities: competing for tuition paying students.

That topic seems very central in the schools FAQ: dixiestateathletics.com/sports/2019/1/10/dixie-state-wac-faq.aspx?id=136.

With Southern Utah University just 50 miles straight up Interstate 15, I wonder if DSU's admissions office found many students preferring to make the trip to enroll in a D1 school rather than a D2 school? That's the recruiting battle that means the most to university administrators.

This is the case. It they're always going to lose local kids who want to go away to college. This will have a bigger impact on attracting kids from the wasatch front who might start viewing DSU as more of a "real school".

I guess I'll wind up being a fan when we eventually retire there, but they need to get their academics in order first. I understand they wanted to preserve greater autonomy, but I wish they'd taken the Utah offer.

(01-11-2019 06:24 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 06:00 PM)seaking4steel Wrote:  

(01-11-2019 05:46 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  I wonder what they’ll ultimately do about the name. It looked like that was going to be resolved when they were set to be incorporated into the Utah system as UofU-St George. But that fell through.

I think some of the old-timers have no issue with the “Dixie” name, but St George is increasingly made up of transplants who find the name as confusing as the first people who posted on this thread. The population growth in the area will ultimately support a legitimization of the school that for a long time has been viewed as a glorified JC, party school (by comparison) with a weird name. I have to think that upward mobility will come with a rebranding at some point.

Brigham Young called the area St. George is located in as "Utah's Dixie", so it makes some sense. The school did change their nickname from Rebels a couple years back.

I don't see an issue with the name. If Ohio can have Bowling Green and Miami, and Pennsylvania can have both Indiana and California University, then Utah should be allowed to have school named Dixie.

The school isn’t respected. It’s brand is poor. Additionally, the name evokes a kind of naive cultural simplicity or unawareness that people in Utah are sort of self-conscious about. Younger ones anyway. I don’t see the name lasting for that reason.

We'll see. The name hasn't been too much of an issue outside of Utah so far, but D1 success could lead to more outcry. If they do change the name back to St. George, it would likely be attributed to the recent growth of the city.

Most Montana and Montana State fans would like to see the Big Sky conference shrink to 9 - 10 football members. No Conference Championship games are allowed in the FCS and computers/tie breakers pick the conference winner so the 14 idea is super ridiculous. Most hate the current bloated structure in Football and Basketball is an afterthought except at UM and Weber.

This is the football Big Sky the Montana schools would love
UM
MSU
UI
EWU
PSU
ISU
Weber
UCD
Cal Poly
10 option (Sac State or NAU)

Drop UNC and SUU and one of NAU or Sac State

A spit and Basketball combination with the WAC would be possible if enough schools had FCS football and both conferences had an autobid to FCS playoffs

Weird Situation to be sure

https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

Fun fact: Dixie State is the lowest ranked school in the Carnegie classification among current/future DI schools, falling alone into the category of "Baccalaureate/Associate's Colleges: Mixed Baccalaureate/Associate's".

(01-12-2019 02:43 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

"Though the WAC does not have football, Dixie State will be competing in Division I football as an FBS Independent school"

Don't they have to start out in FCS

(01-12-2019 04:59 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 02:43 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

"Though the WAC does not have football, Dixie State will be competing in Division I football as an FBS Independent school"

Don't they have to start out in FCS

They're not going FBS, it's a typo. They will be a FCS Independent.

(01-12-2019 05:40 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 04:59 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 02:43 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

"Though the WAC does not have football, Dixie State will be competing in Division I football as an FBS Independent school"

Don't they have to start out in FCS

They're not going FBS, it's a typo. They will be a FCS Independent.

Uh oh, hope DavidSt doesn't read that article....

I'm believer in the federated system. Not a thing wrong with choosing to be in the Division that fits your school.

If Division I fits Dixie State, good luck to them.

As to the possibility of rebranding, few people outside of Utah and Arizona would guess it is in Utah. If their goal is to increase their out-of-region recruiting then it is an imperative. I suspect they aren't likely to have much out-of-region student recruitment success even with a "better" name. It really doesn't matter if a high school senior thinks Dixie State is in Alabama or basically on the Arizona border in Utah because that kid isn't likely to consider Dixie State unless they are offering an athletic scholarship.

(01-09-2019 02:23 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 02:17 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 01:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm... I wonder if S. Utah would be interested in the WAC now?

That would be a no.

I checked the Big Sky ByLaws. There is no provision to end associate football membership. Cal Poly and UC Davis can remain football members as long as they want, they cannot be kicked out. And nobody wants to leave the Big Sky for the WAC, nobody.

One thing I found interesting in the article is that UMKC is actively trying to exit the WAC due to travel costs. I wonder what Dixie State heard that makes that likely. There doesn't seem to be any indication the Summit wants them back.

you sure no one wants to leave the Big Sky for the WAC? Sacramento State would have another in-state member to play with. Larger markets than in the Big Sky. Higher conference prestige.

No.

(01-09-2019 02:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 02:23 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 02:17 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 01:32 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Hmmm... I wonder if S. Utah would be interested in the WAC now?

That would be a no.

I checked the Big Sky ByLaws. There is no provision to end associate football membership. Cal Poly and UC Davis can remain football members as long as they want, they cannot be kicked out. And nobody wants to leave the Big Sky for the WAC, nobody.

One thing I found interesting in the article is that UMKC is actively trying to exit the WAC due to travel costs. I wonder what Dixie State heard that makes that likely. There doesn't seem to be any indication the Summit wants them back.

you sure no one wants to leave the Big Sky for the WAC? Sacramento State would have another in-state member to play with. Larger markets than in the Big Sky. Higher conference prestige.

Yes, I'm sure. I have a friend who is in tight with the Sac State athletic department. The Cali schools are not going anywhere.(The causeway classic is the only game that matters at all). You also forget the general anti-religious school sentiment among the leadership of the California public Universities. CBU and GCU are, uh hell no.

But you should know that as a Santa Barbara alum.

This. No one is leaving the BSC for the WAC.

(01-12-2019 02:55 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Nobody in the Big Sky is leaving for the WAC or anywhere else. The WAC is for schools that are actually trying, while the Big Sky is a pathetic holding tank for the west's least ambitious universities. In order to leave, a Big Sky member would first need to be able to fog a mirror.

Some of the WAC schools are tying, others are not (Chicago State). So really not much different than pretty much any other bottom tier D1 conference. WAC made some great adds by getting private schools willing to invest in athletics (GCU, CBU) which will be good for the WAC in the long run.

(01-12-2019 02:43 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

Quote:1952 Dixie Junior College’s athletics organizations adopt “Rebel” as their nickname.
1956 The school makes a Confederate soldier its mascot.
1960 Dixie Junior College begins flying the Confederate flag as a school symbol.

The days when people didn’t take themselves too seriously. Fascinating history.

(01-13-2019 04:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 02:43 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

Quote:1952 Dixie Junior College’s athletics organizations adopt “Rebel” as their nickname.
1956 The school makes a Confederate soldier its mascot.
1960 Dixie Junior College begins flying the Confederate flag as a school symbol.

The days when people didn’t take themselves too seriously. Fascinating history.

You mean the days when people were really racist? That was when the parent organization didn’t allow blacks to hold church authority.

(01-13-2019 04:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 02:43 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

Quote:1952 Dixie Junior College’s athletics organizations adopt “Rebel” as their nickname.
1956 The school makes a Confederate soldier its mascot.
1960 Dixie Junior College begins flying the Confederate flag as a school symbol.

The days when people didn’t take themselves too seriously. Fascinating history.

Actually they took themselves quite seriously. There was a significant uptick in "Confederate imagery" that coincides with the rise of the civil rights movement.

There is an interesting piece on when Houston integrated their football team. Suddenly most every opponent's band learned to play Dixie and played it nearly non-stop and fans brought Confederate battle flags to the game when Houston visited.

Nothing innocent about it. It was intentional to send a message.
I know at least two high schools in Arkansas adopted the Rebel name AFTER the Brown decision.

(01-14-2019 01:56 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 04:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 02:43 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  https://www.thespectrum.com/story/news/2.../77927222/

Quote:1952 Dixie Junior College’s athletics organizations adopt “Rebel” as their nickname.
1956 The school makes a Confederate soldier its mascot.
1960 Dixie Junior College begins flying the Confederate flag as a school symbol.

The days when people didn’t take themselves too seriously. Fascinating history.

Actually they took themselves quite seriously. There was a significant uptick in "Confederate imagery" that coincides with the rise of the civil rights movement.

There is an interesting piece on when Houston integrated their football team. Suddenly most every opponent's band learned to play Dixie and played it nearly non-stop and fans brought Confederate battle flags to the game when Houston visited.

Nothing innocent about it. It was intentional to send a message.
I know at least two high schools in Arkansas adopted the Rebel name AFTER the Brown decision.

Yup. Confederate Flag went atop the SC statehouse AFTER passage of the Civil Rights Act.

Most of that stuff was never intended as a memorial or homage to confederate veterans, but rather was a direct reaction of people being mad about the civil rights movement.

(01-13-2019 04:01 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 02:55 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Nobody in the Big Sky is leaving for the WAC or anywhere else. The WAC is for schools that are actually trying, while the Big Sky is a pathetic holding tank for the west's least ambitious universities. In order to leave, a Big Sky member would first need to be able to fog a mirror.

Some of the WAC schools are tying, others are not (Chicago State). So really not much different than pretty much any other bottom tier D1 conference. WAC made some great adds by getting private schools willing to invest in athletics (GCU, CBU) which will be good for the WAC in the long run.

The WAC is different than the Big Sky. The WAC is an Olympic sports league, the Big Sky is a football conference. Basketball is the #1 sport for the WAC. Basketball is secondary to football for Big Sky schools. The Big Sky does not have baseball or men's soccer. Two Big Sky schools, Sac State and Northern Colorado, play baseball in the WAC.

No Big Sky school is going to join a WAC without football and no WAC school is going to join a Big Sky without baseball and men's soccer. The WAC does have advantages in basketball because schools like GCU, Seattle and NMSU have larger basketball budgets and the because the WAC is in better markets for recruiting.

As for schools that don't try, I think Chicago State and Sacramento State both try in basketball. Each school has had one winning season in the last 25 years. Chicago State basketball has limited financial resources but they do have a 7,000 seat arena. Sac State basketball does not get the support of their administration, which explains why they are playing in a 1,012 seat gym.

(01-14-2019 05:56 PM)SoCalBobcat78 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 04:01 PM)SDHornet Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 02:55 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Nobody in the Big Sky is leaving for the WAC or anywhere else. The WAC is for schools that are actually trying, while the Big Sky is a pathetic holding tank for the west's least ambitious universities. In order to leave, a Big Sky member would first need to be able to fog a mirror.

Some of the WAC schools are tying, others are not (Chicago State). So really not much different than pretty much any other bottom tier D1 conference. WAC made some great adds by getting private schools willing to invest in athletics (GCU, CBU) which will be good for the WAC in the long run.

The WAC is different than the Big Sky. The WAC is an Olympic sports league, the Big Sky is a football conference. Basketball is the #1 sport for the WAC. Basketball is secondary to football for Big Sky schools. The Big Sky does not have baseball or men's soccer. Two Big Sky schools, Sac State and Northern Colorado, play baseball in the WAC.

No Big Sky school is going to join a WAC without football and no WAC school is going to join a Big Sky without baseball and men's soccer. The WAC does have advantages in basketball because schools like GCU, Seattle and NMSU have larger basketball budgets and the because the WAC is in better markets for recruiting.

As for schools that don't try, I think Chicago State and Sacramento State both try in basketball. Each school has had one winning season in the last 25 years. Chicago State basketball has limited financial resources but they do have a 7,000 seat arena. Sac State basketball does not get the support of their administration, which explains why they are playing in a 1,012 seat gym.

I'm not channeling NoDak nor do I believe the following will ever happen. But for the sake of being a good sport, please humor me. If the Big West was ever open to bringing back football, ya think two or three Big Sky members would be willing to sign up for football-only and put their other sports in the WAC? All you need is six teams for an FCS auto bid.

Portland State (full member)
Cal Poly (full member)
UC Davis (full member)
Dixie State (fb-only)
Sac State (beach volleyball, fb) or Northern Arizona (fb-only)
Northern Colorado (fb-only)

Sac State is blocked from joining the BW as a full member due to Cal State Bakersfield getting the jump on them - because you can't mess with the Cal State / UC balance - so in this hypothetical scenario Portland State is all sport member #12 instead. If Sac State prefers staying in the Big Sky you tab Northern Arizona and Northern Colorado. Dixie State will already be joining the WAC in all non-football sports so they are taken care of. They'd gladly accept putting football in a conference with an auto bid

Viola. Your newest western FCS conference. In summary, all the Big West really needs for a football revival is Portland State and two affiliates.