When someone says I have a 500K house the question becomes "What does that mean?"

In Detroit area, the house is probably very nice.

In D.C. area, minimal house maybe in an aging area.

In S.F., a nice two bedroom dog house, though without indoor plumbing...

In coaching, one would look first at the conference record for context. A 10 - 8 in the MAC isn't the same as 10 - 8 in the B1G.

However, it is better than most conferences.

According to Wikipedia, Murphy was .500 all time in the MAC.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rob_Murphy_(basketball)

One needs to come up with an adjective to apply, say "moderately successful MAC coach."

I wouldn't say 'highly successful' or 'below average.' neither terms fit.

For CC, one can say, "He took over a failing program and turned it around the last three years.'

Let's look at the MAC Basketball Championship.

Since Murphy arrived in 2011, five teams have gone to the NCAA Tournament. Buffalo (3), Akron (2) Ohio, Western, and Kent State. None of these were three year, immediate successes except Oates, who took over for Bobby Hurley, and Hawkins, who took over for Robert McCallum (in 2003). Now look how many other MAC teams replaced their coach in that time. Namely, every other MAC team replaced coaches at least once. Most of them stayed exactly where they are, MAC basketball is consistently a dogfight between positions 4 and 9, where everyone is a game above or below .500 in MAC Conference play. Y'all may not think it's a success to be consistently vying for the top of that group and trying to get a bye into the MAC tournament, but it actually is.

In fact, most of the naysayers on this board would probably have fired Ben Braun after his sixth or seventh year. Yes he got us to the promised land in 1990-1991. Then he went 9-22 the next year, and 13-17 the year after that.

That's not to say coaches should never be fired. Barnes, Ramsey and Boone all had programs in free fall when they were fired. Ramsey, on the other hand, is coming off of a 22-win season. I don't see the program folding next year, or the year after that.

(01-08-2019 03:00 PM)Block_E Wrote:  Let's look at the MAC Basketball Championship.

Since Murphy arrived in 2011, five teams have gone to the NCAA Tournament. Buffalo (3), Akron (2) Ohio, Western, and Kent State. None of these were three year, immediate successes except Oates, who took over for Bobby Hurley, and Hawkins, who took over for Robert McCallum (in 2003). Now look how many other MAC teams replaced their coach in that time. Namely, every other MAC team replaced coaches at least once. Most of them stayed exactly where they are, MAC basketball is consistently a dogfight between positions 4 and 9, where everyone is a game above or below .500 in MAC Conference play. Y'all may not think it's a success to be consistently vying for the top of that group and trying to get a bye into the MAC tournament, but it actually is.

In fact, most of the naysayers on this board would probably have fired Ben Braun after his sixth or seventh year. Yes he got us to the promised land in 1990-1991. Then he went 9-22 the next year, and 13-17 the year after that.

That's not to say coaches should never be fired. Barnes, Ramsey and Boone all had programs in free fall when they were fired. Ramsey, on the other hand, is coming off of a 22-win season. I don't see the program folding next year, or the year after that.

Lot of good points.

Yes, the fact remains that this decade that Akron and UB have dominated. Most of the others out in the cold looking in.

I remember the Braun years and yes the Thomas left, Kennedy left, others left and the cupboard was bare in '91/'92.

Then the rebuilding was underway with Tolbert and Wilson.

The differences between Murphy and Braun are clear. Braun made it to the big dance three times in his 10 years, and for the most part this was done with three different groups of players. His teams were also fun to watch and involved in the community.

Murphy has not even made it to the conference Championship Game and it is often frustrating watching them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

(01-08-2019 03:00 PM)Block_E Wrote:  Let's look at the MAC Basketball Championship.

Since Murphy arrived in 2011, five teams have gone to the NCAA Tournament. Buffalo (3), Akron (2) Ohio, Western, and Kent State. None of these were three year, immediate successes except Oates, who took over for Bobby Hurley, and Hawkins, who took over for Robert McCallum (in 2003). Now look how many other MAC teams replaced their coach in that time. Namely, every other MAC team replaced coaches at least once. Most of them stayed exactly where they are, MAC basketball is consistently a dogfight between positions 4 and 9, where everyone is a game above or below .500 in MAC Conference play. Y'all may not think it's a success to be consistently vying for the top of that group and trying to get a bye into the MAC tournament, but it actually is.

In fact, most of the naysayers on this board would probably have fired Ben Braun after his sixth or seventh year. Yes he got us to the promised land in 1990-1991. Then he went 9-22 the next year, and 13-17 the year after that.

That's not to say coaches should never be fired. Barnes, Ramsey and Boone all had programs in free fall when they were fired. Ramsey, on the other hand, is coming off of a 22-win season. I don't see the program folding next year, or the year after that.

The year before Ramsey was canned, he was one win away from winning the MAC West (which would've got a bye, back in those days)...a heartbreaking loss to CMU at home, where Brandon Bowdry missed two free throws in the final seconds that would've given us the lead. Then, we took Akron to, like, 2 OT's in the MAC quarters off a monster performance from Carlos Medlock. We had a decent team that year.

What got him fired was the next year when we were abysmal, despite bringing back some key guys (especially Bowdry). It's eerily similar to how this season is going for Murphy; a massively underwhelming follow-up to their best performances as coaches. When, after multiple seasons on the job, that "best performance" isn't a MAC Championship, then you should be squarely on the hot seat.

BlockE,

Your first point really resonates. It seems the regulars keep making the NCAA, while the 7 others who obviously changed their coaches are not even poised to make it. So we need not be so enthusiastic about a replacement.

Though your subsequent points seem to be a stretch/exaggeration. Regardless, good post.

(01-08-2019 04:31 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  The year before Ramsey was canned, he was one win away from winning the MAC West (which would've got a bye, back ini those days)...a heartbreaking loss to CMU at home, where Brandon Bowdry missed two free throws in the final seconds that would've given us the lead. Then, we took Akron to, like, 2 OT's in the MAC quarters off a monster performance from Carlos Medlock. We had a decent team that year.

What got him fired was the next year when we were abysmal, despite bringing back some key guys (especially Bowdry). It's eerily similar to how this season is going for Murphy; a massively underwhelming follow-up to their best performances as coaches. When, after multiple seasons on the job, that "best performance" isn't a MAC Championship, then you should be squarely on the hot seat.

This is a great post, Sam!! I think I can’t make up my mind...

I think Murphy’s moderate success leaves two valid options:
EMU keeps Murphy to avoid being horrible
OR
EMU switches coaches to hopefully succeed occasionally but in likelihood will just be worse.

Regardless, this brand of basketball just isn’t fun to watch. The offense is repugnant, to borrow Sam’s phrase. It makes me LITERALLY cringe watching it.

Anyway, EMU will probably beat Ball St tonight, and we won’t need to discuss this much.

Murphy is the 3rd or 4th best coach in program history BUT he also isn't getting the job done. How do you fire someone who might belong in the EMU Athletics hall of fame?

My position is this: It's okay to fire someone who has brought you more success than the immediate past but not meeting expectation.

Coaching is a competitive business. Every coach in the country knows that. That's why they don't get tenured. Expectations change over time. Imagine Murphy was a CEO of a company. He did a good job expanding earnings and growing the company for several years, but now we've plateaued, and in fact are regressing (are below the break-even point). Most Boards would not retain that CEO. And the expectation is the same in sports.

I'm thankful for Murphy making the program respectable again, and he's had some great moments. I'll never forget being at the Michigan and Purdue wins, as well as some other exciting games, but the time has come to take the NEXT step. And it just doesn't seem Murphy can get us there.

(01-08-2019 04:12 PM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  The differences between Murphy and Braun are clear. Braun made it to the big dance three times in his 10 years, and for the most part this was done with three different groups of players. His teams were also fun to watch and involved in the community.

Murphy has not even made it to the conference Championship Game and it is often frustrating watching them.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320AZ using Tapatalk

He also made it to the NIT a handful of times. Braun always had Bowen rocking too. Best atmosphere in MAC basketball.

(01-08-2019 05:47 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I think Murphy’s moderate success leaves two valid options:
EMU keeps Murphy to avoid being horrible
OR
EMU switches coaches to hopefully succeed occasionally but in likelihood will just be worse.

Regardless, this brand of basketball just isn’t fun to watch. The offense is repugnant, to borrow Sam’s phrase. It makes me LITERALLY cringe watching it.

Anyway, EMU will probably beat Ball St tonight, and we won’t need to discuss this much.

Interesting post. Particularly the prediction at the end... I don’t get enough respect around here.

(01-08-2019 09:52 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 05:47 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I think Murphy’s moderate success leaves two valid options:
EMU keeps Murphy to avoid being horrible
OR
EMU switches coaches to hopefully succeed occasionally but in likelihood will just be worse.

Regardless, this brand of basketball just isn’t fun to watch. The offense is repugnant, to borrow Sam’s phrase. It makes me LITERALLY cringe watching it.

Anyway, EMU will probably beat Ball St tonight, and we won’t need to discuss this much.

Interesting post. Particularly the prediction at the end... I don’t get enough respect around here.

A tale of two posters...

'Nickle predicted a 25 point loss (and was wrong).

And you 'nailed it.'

(01-09-2019 01:35 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 09:52 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 05:47 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I think Murphy’s moderate success leaves two valid options:
EMU keeps Murphy to avoid being horrible
OR
EMU switches coaches to hopefully succeed occasionally but in likelihood will just be worse.

Regardless, this brand of basketball just isn’t fun to watch. The offense is repugnant, to borrow Sam’s phrase. It makes me LITERALLY cringe watching it.

Anyway, EMU will probably beat Ball St tonight, and we won’t need to discuss this much.

Interesting post. Particularly the prediction at the end... I don’t get enough respect around here.

A tale of two posters...

'Nickle predicted a 25 point loss (and was wrong).

And you 'nailed it.'

Yes, I was wrong. But that prediction was based on a few years of watching a team that often looks like they're trying to figure it out. Even Sunshine Steve has to admit that this year has been a big disappointment,

(01-09-2019 06:11 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 01:35 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 09:52 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 05:47 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I think Murphy’s moderate success leaves two valid options:
EMU keeps Murphy to avoid being horrible
OR
EMU switches coaches to hopefully succeed occasionally but in likelihood will just be worse.

Regardless, this brand of basketball just isn’t fun to watch. The offense is repugnant, to borrow Sam’s phrase. It makes me LITERALLY cringe watching it.

Anyway, EMU will probably beat Ball St tonight, and we won’t need to discuss this much.

Interesting post. Particularly the prediction at the end... I don’t get enough respect around here.

A tale of two posters...

'Nickle predicted a 25 point loss (and was wrong).

And you 'nailed it.'

Yes, I was wrong. But that prediction was based on a few years of watching a team that often looks like they're trying to figure it out. Even Sunshine Steve has to admit that this year has been a big disappointment,

Absolutely, but like last year, one does not know what the conference season will bring.

No need to declare defeat before the games have been played.

This morning, Wednesday Jan 9, 2019, I have NO idea what our conference record will be.

We could win 5 games or we could just as easily win 11.

I love it! People getting giddy over a win vs Ball State.

(01-09-2019 06:17 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 06:11 AM)TheWoodenNickle Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 01:35 AM)emu steve Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 09:52 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 05:47 PM)RamyEMU Wrote:  I think Murphy’s moderate success leaves two valid options:
EMU keeps Murphy to avoid being horrible
OR
EMU switches coaches to hopefully succeed occasionally but in likelihood will just be worse.

Regardless, this brand of basketball just isn’t fun to watch. The offense is repugnant, to borrow Sam’s phrase. It makes me LITERALLY cringe watching it.

Anyway, EMU will probably beat Ball St tonight, and we won’t need to discuss this much.

Interesting post. Particularly the prediction at the end... I don’t get enough respect around here.

A tale of two posters...

'Nickle predicted a 25 point loss (and was wrong).

And you 'nailed it.'

Yes, I was wrong. But that prediction was based on a few years of watching a team that often looks like they're trying to figure it out. Even Sunshine Steve has to admit that this year has been a big disappointment,

Absolutely, but like last year, one does not know what the conference season will bring.

No need to declare defeat before the games have been played.

This morning, Wednesday Jan 9, 2019, I have NO idea what our conference record will be.

We could win 5 games or we could just as easily win 11.

Steve, come on, man. Are you serious?

Have you seen us play other than last night? You can just say "I don't know what will happen" -- the entire reason why this blog exists (like sports talk radio) is to have discussions about it. Not just say the most obvious thing. Don't post here then if you're just going to wait and see at the end of the season.

This team plays like garbage together. Last night was a BIG win to see if Murphy lost the team or not. And, he hasn't.