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Notre Dame vindicated?
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Notre Dame vindicated?
A lot of people seemed to think that Notre Dame was exposed as a fraud by Clemson. They were down by 20 at half and lost by 27. Before Monday night, people were predicting ND to fall as low as 6th or 7th.

But then Clemson turned around and did the exact same thing to Alabama. Alabama was down 15 at half and lost by 28.

Is Notre Dame vindicated a bit here? I predict they fall no lower than 4th, and they have a very strong argument for staying at #3.
01-08-2019 01:00 AM
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Stugray2 Online
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
I still drop them to 5th. The Buckeyes also lost only 1 game.
01-08-2019 01:13 AM
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texasorange Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
I’m not sure. I still think Ohio State and Georgia have a legitimate argument. But in the end, the only thing that matters is Clemson and their win.
01-08-2019 01:13 AM
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Stugray2 Online
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 01:13 AM)texasorange Wrote:  I’m not sure. I still think Ohio State and Georgia have a legitimate argument. But in the end, the only thing that matters is Clemson and their win.

Georgia lost their argument when they got whooped by Texas
01-08-2019 01:14 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 01:14 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 01:13 AM)texasorange Wrote:  I’m not sure. I still think Ohio State and Georgia have a legitimate argument. But in the end, the only thing that matters is Clemson and their win.

Georgia lost their argument when they got whooped by Texas

Exactly.

My Top 5

Clemson
Alabama
Ohio State
Notre Dame
Oklahoma

Cheers,
Neil
01-08-2019 01:24 AM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
I will take a 12-1 season, making the playoffs and finishing #4 or #5 in the country.

I think that a few other teams would like that kind of a season.

Clemson beat ND by 27 and Alabama by 28, so yeah...I feel better about that loss.

ND's only loss this season was to the national champions. Not bad, not bad at all.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019 07:46 AM by TerryD.)
01-08-2019 07:45 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
Thirteenth data point may have make a difference in future selections (and no school will be allowed to select their own opponent).
01-08-2019 08:05 AM
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toddjnsn Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
I don't really see ND as vindicated. They didn't display themselves as a better team than Alabama. It's not when Notre Dame got Whipped, everyone thought "OH, you just got bent over by a FAR DISTANT 2nd place team!" :)

I think Notre Dame getting shelacked vs Clemson + their "big" win over Michigan who got bent over back-to-back without lube against Ohio State & Florida, just brought up the whole "Well geez, how good IS Notre Dame?"

It's more like if Clemson got Whipped, it'd just make Notre Dame look a little worse on top of things. But either way, ND's schedule wasn't their fault (Florida State + USC having down years). They were a power team. That's what Playoffs are for; especially when one's an Independent and the # of 'Big' opponents oddly lacked said season, or one's a Power G5 having a great year.
01-08-2019 08:14 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
Notre Dame’s defense handled Clemson better than Alabama, but still gave up the home runs. Clemson takes shots downfield and has an explosive back. Add that to their suffocating defense (best coordinator in the land) and they’re national champs.

The Clemson-ND game came down to a few lightning strikes at the end of the first half, before that ND was playing very sound defense. Alabama was giving up yards all over the place. Notre Dame’s offense looked like they’ve never played football before while Alabama’s played decent except for the turnovers.
01-08-2019 08:41 AM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
They were vindicated in a similar sense as Washington a few years back (I forget if Bama won the CFP that year or not). Made sense on paper and had a good D, but wasn't good enough to take down a top two team.
01-08-2019 09:28 AM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 01:00 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A lot of people seemed to think that Notre Dame was exposed as a fraud by Clemson. They were down by 20 at half and lost by 27. Before Monday night, people were predicting ND to fall as low as 6th or 7th.

But then Clemson turned around and did the exact same thing to Alabama. Alabama was down 15 at half and lost by 28.

Is Notre Dame vindicated a bit here? I predict they fall no lower than 4th, and they have a very strong argument for staying at #3.

No.

They didn't look like a top 4 team. There was nothing about that game that made me think Notre Dame would beat Clemson even once if they played 5 times. Alabama actually had a lead in the 2nd quarter despite the INT returned for a TD and totally dominated the yardage at that point. It was something like 225-75. Pretty sure they still had an advantage in yardage in the first half overall. Also, if they weren't so far behind, they try 3 more FGs that makes the final score closer.
01-08-2019 09:46 AM
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ShoreBuc Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
No way they were going to leave a 12-0 Notre Dame team out of the playoffs. Not sure how vindicated they are now. At the end of the day they are still 0-6 in BCS/Playoff Era Bowl games and all their defeats have been by double digits. I think that record should open up the debate does a 12-1 SEC team or other seriously talented 12-1 or 11-1 team get in over an undefeated Notre Dame ? The Michigan victory early looked great until Michigan was easily dismantled by Ohio St and then again in their Bowl game.
My only hope is the Playoff committee is open to a 1 loss team getting in over an undefeated team if at the end of the season that 1 loss team is better.

As always I think they should do away with pre season polls and not rank anybody until after week 4 or 5. Too many schools get over ranked based on name recognition and Notre Dame is definitely a media darling who if they show a pulse is generally going to be over ranked. Let all the voters have 4-5 games to digest and look at before they rank anybody.
01-08-2019 09:57 AM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 09:57 AM)ShoreBuc Wrote:  No way they were going to leave a 12-0 Notre Dame team out of the playoffs. Not sure how vindicated they are now. At the end of the day they are still 0-6 in BCS/Playoff Era Bowl games and all their defeats have been by double digits. I think that record should open up the debate does a 12-1 SEC team or other seriously talented 12-1 or 11-1 team get in over an undefeated Notre Dame ? The Michigan victory early looked great until Michigan was easily dismantled by Ohio St and then again in their Bowl game.
My only hope is the Playoff committee is open to a 1 loss team getting in over an undefeated team if at the end of the season that 1 loss team is better.

As always I think they should do away with pre season polls and not rank anybody until after week 4 or 5. Too many schools get over ranked based on name recognition and Notre Dame is definitely a media darling who if they show a pulse is generally going to be over ranked. Let all the voters have 4-5 games to digest and look at before they rank anybody.

Its still pretty hard to leave them out of the top 5 when every P5 team has 3 losses except for Clemson, Alabama, OU and Ohio St. And it would have been pretty hard to leave them out of the playoff before the bowls for a team with 2 losses to the best two teams it played or a team that lost 49-20 to a 6-6 team. Winning should count for something, not just looking good doing it. Its not like Notre Dame was playing a Conference USA schedule.

I think they should wait one more week before putting out the CFP polls. There are a lot of big games that weekend. And as much as they start from scratch, the rankings are still baked in somewhat in the individual committee members' minds.
01-08-2019 10:22 AM
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BadgerMJ Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 01:00 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A lot of people seemed to think that Notre Dame was exposed as a fraud by Clemson. They were down by 20 at half and lost by 27. Before Monday night, people were predicting ND to fall as low as 6th or 7th.

But then Clemson turned around and did the exact same thing to Alabama. Alabama was down 15 at half and lost by 28.

Is Notre Dame vindicated a bit here? I predict they fall no lower than 4th, and they have a very strong argument for staying at #3.

What it does is two things.

1) Shows that Clemson was a legitimate juggernaut this year.

2) Shows that ND's loss was more a symptom of Clemson being THAT good rather than the Irish being over rated.
01-08-2019 10:37 AM
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esayem Offline
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
The 0-6 in whatever BCS/playoff era bowl stat is bogus. How many different coaches does that take into account? How many major bowls have they won before that “era” are not being counted?
01-08-2019 11:14 AM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 10:37 AM)BadgerMJ Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 01:00 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  A lot of people seemed to think that Notre Dame was exposed as a fraud by Clemson. They were down by 20 at half and lost by 27. Before Monday night, people were predicting ND to fall as low as 6th or 7th.

But then Clemson turned around and did the exact same thing to Alabama. Alabama was down 15 at half and lost by 28.

Is Notre Dame vindicated a bit here? I predict they fall no lower than 4th, and they have a very strong argument for staying at #3.

What it does is two things.

1) Shows that Clemson was a legitimate juggernaut this year.

2) Shows that ND's loss was more a symptom of Clemson being THAT good rather than the Irish being over rated.

Yes, that's what I meant. Exactly this!
01-08-2019 11:55 AM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
There are different ways of looking at it. If LSU, UGA and Texas are playing at their best and Notre Dame plays their best, I think Notre Dame loses to all 3. But how often you play at your peak is part of how good a team you are. And so, Notre Dame is a better team than LSU, UGA and Texas.
01-08-2019 12:04 PM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 01:13 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I still drop them to 5th. The Buckeyes also lost only 1 game.

Notre Dame and Ohio State both only lost one game this year. But Notre Dame is 28 points to Clemson and Ohio State is 29 points to Purdue. Which team is better?
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2019 12:45 PM by ArQ.)
01-08-2019 12:07 PM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 12:07 PM)ArQ Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 01:13 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I still drop them to 5th. The Buckeyes also lost only 1 game.

Notre Dame and Ohio State both only one game this year. But Notre Dame is 28 points to Clemson and Ohio State is 29 points to Purdue. Which team is better?

The team that beat Michigan by 23 instead of 7 and Northwestern by 21 instead of 10 and beat 4 ranked teams instead of 3 and didn't beat Ball St. by 24-16.
01-08-2019 12:15 PM
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RE: Notre Dame vindicated?
(01-08-2019 12:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 12:07 PM)ArQ Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 01:13 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  I still drop them to 5th. The Buckeyes also lost only 1 game.

Notre Dame and Ohio State both only one game this year. But Notre Dame is 28 points to Clemson and Ohio State is 29 points to Purdue. Which team is better?

The team that beat Michigan by 23 instead of 7 and Northwestern by 21 instead of 10 and beat 4 ranked teams instead of 3 and didn't beat Ball St. by 24-16.

ND used their backup QB and RB in both those games.
01-08-2019 01:28 PM
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