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The Wall won’t work
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:14 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 09:55 PM)Jugnaut Wrote:  Hungary proves that border walls/fences work

Go back and reread.

Didn't see anything about Hungary. I did see someone mention Israel which is another solid example of walls/fences working.

Your only substantive point is that cartels and criminals can find ways around a wall/fence so we shouldn't have way. Basically, you seem to be arguing that even if something is 99% effective or even just somewhat effective, we shouldn't bother with it because someone can defeat it on some level. A completely open border surely isn't the answer.

I prefer the Israeli and Hungary approach, i.e. walls and fencing with a strong border patrol force.

Neither Hungary nor Israel have a 2000 mile border, but it has not stopped Palestinians from tunneling in nor has it stopped border violence.
01-07-2019 10:38 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:23 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

Facts to back this up that walls dont work? You and I both know Patton was talking about in a war setting where you had tanks and bombs that could destroy walls and fortifications or cut off their supply lines and wait them out.

Explain how that works with the wall?

Two simple question that you should be able to defend and back up with facts. Not your opinion, no one wants that...just facts

Go back and reread, but let’s also address your point. Hadrians wall was built by the romans to keep northern barbarians from invading into Roman controlled modern England, guess what it didn’t do.

Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?
01-07-2019 10:40 PM
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Eagleaidaholic Offline
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Post: #43
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:23 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

Facts to back this up that walls dont work? You and I both know Patton was talking about in a war setting where you had tanks and bombs that could destroy walls and fortifications or cut off their supply lines and wait them out.

Explain how that works with the wall?

Two simple question that you should be able to defend and back up with facts. Not your opinion, no one wants that...just facts

Go back and reread, but let’s also address your point. Hadrians wall was built by the romans to keep northern barbarians from invading into Roman controlled modern England, guess what it didn’t do.

Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

so 2000 miles of mine fields? Alot cheaper.
01-07-2019 10:47 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #44
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

lol. A wall is more effective than the current red carpet. 100% guaranteed. As for Patton, when the illegal aliens are driving tanks and carrying Bagalore torpedoes we can start being concerned about the ineffectiveness of fixed positions. The physical barrier makes it much harder and more time consuming to cross, giving the current man power a better opportunity to discover and interdict the illegal entry. It works everywhere its tried. Why some people think its suddenly going to be worthless---I have no idea. The White House is surrounded by a physical barrier. If it didnt help, it wouldnt be there.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019 11:00 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-07-2019 10:53 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 10:47 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:23 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Facts to back this up that walls dont work? You and I both know Patton was talking about in a war setting where you had tanks and bombs that could destroy walls and fortifications or cut off their supply lines and wait them out.

Explain how that works with the wall?

Two simple question that you should be able to defend and back up with facts. Not your opinion, no one wants that...just facts

Go back and reread, but let’s also address your point. Hadrians wall was built by the romans to keep northern barbarians from invading into Roman controlled modern England, guess what it didn’t do.

Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

so 2000 miles of mine fields? Alot cheaper.

Actually yes. There’s a reason a lot of those poorer countries have used them historically. Definitely cheaper by comparison
01-07-2019 10:54 PM
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Post: #46
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:23 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

Facts to back this up that walls dont work? You and I both know Patton was talking about in a war setting where you had tanks and bombs that could destroy walls and fortifications or cut off their supply lines and wait them out.

Explain how that works with the wall?

Two simple question that you should be able to defend and back up with facts. Not your opinion, no one wants that...just facts

Go back and reread, but let’s also address your point. Hadrians wall was built by the romans to keep northern barbarians from invading into Roman controlled modern England, guess what it didn’t do.

Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

You seem to think if something doesn't work 100% its a failure. That's not the case at all because if it stops 70, 80, 90% it's doing its job.

You are trying to compare walls build to defend and protect in a war setting to a wall that is to limit people coming to this country illegally. You and I both know you dont need 2,000 miles of wall for it to work. Of course you want to stop 100% but that's not going to be the case with anything. That's not the goal of any wall and where there's walls its slowed the flow of people illegally coming into this country.

So stop trying to put this into a war setting when you know that's not the case. If it was the wall would be backed up by soldiers, planes, bombs and guns shooting to kill when a person came with in a few feet of it. If this was a war setting the USA would be using ground monitoring devices for people trying to dig under it. No actually, if this was a war the US border would start where the Southern Mexican border ended
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019 10:58 PM by WKUYG.)
01-07-2019 10:56 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 10:56 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:23 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:17 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Facts to back this up that walls dont work? You and I both know Patton was talking about in a war setting where you had tanks and bombs that could destroy walls and fortifications or cut off their supply lines and wait them out.

Explain how that works with the wall?

Two simple question that you should be able to defend and back up with facts. Not your opinion, no one wants that...just facts

Go back and reread, but let’s also address your point. Hadrians wall was built by the romans to keep northern barbarians from invading into Roman controlled modern England, guess what it didn’t do.

Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

You seem to think if something doesn't work 100% its a failure. That's not the case at all because if it stops 70, 80, 90% it's doing its job.

You are trying to compare walls build to defend and protect in a war setting to a wall that is to limit people coming to this country illegally. You and I both know you dont need 2,000 miles of wall for it to work. Of course you want to stop 100% but that's not going to be the case with anything. That's not the goal of any wall and where there's walls its slowed the flow of people illegally coming into this country.

So stop trying to put this into a war setting when you know that's not the case. If it was the wall would be backed up by soldiers, planes, bombs and guns shooting to kill when a person came with in a few feet of it. If this was a war setting the USA would be using ground monitoring devices for people trying to dig under it

They already have drones, ground motion sensors, nvgs, thermal sights, aerial (fixed+rotary wing) and etc. Is it a national security case or not? Cartels have already killed BP agents. It’s hard to defend anything that’d cost billions with perhaps a 70% success rate. Would you jump out of an airplane with a parachute that works 70% of the time?
01-07-2019 11:03 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #48
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 08:51 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:43 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Yall are wasting your time. Give me 3 examples in which a wall does not work is the question you ask.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DLVdi14ECCc

They just walk across everywhere else. Nothing works 100% of the time. If you plan it well and only do it once, the chances are very good you can rob a bank and get away with it...once. Using the exception doesnt disprove the rule. Bama lost to ULM one year---I wound place my bets based on that data point,
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019 11:22 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-07-2019 11:11 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #49
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:03 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:56 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:23 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Go back and reread, but let’s also address your point. Hadrians wall was built by the romans to keep northern barbarians from invading into Roman controlled modern England, guess what it didn’t do.

Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

You seem to think if something doesn't work 100% its a failure. That's not the case at all because if it stops 70, 80, 90% it's doing its job.

You are trying to compare walls build to defend and protect in a war setting to a wall that is to limit people coming to this country illegally. You and I both know you dont need 2,000 miles of wall for it to work. Of course you want to stop 100% but that's not going to be the case with anything. That's not the goal of any wall and where there's walls its slowed the flow of people illegally coming into this country.

So stop trying to put this into a war setting when you know that's not the case. If it was the wall would be backed up by soldiers, planes, bombs and guns shooting to kill when a person came with in a few feet of it. If this was a war setting the USA would be using ground monitoring devices for people trying to dig under it

They already have drones, ground motion sensors, nvgs, thermal sights, aerial (fixed+rotary wing) and etc. Is it a national security case or not? Cartels have already killed BP agents. It’s hard to defend anything that’d cost billions with perhaps a 70% success rate. Would you jump out of an airplane with a parachute that works 70% of the time?

Just stop because you are not making any sense and moving the goal post Your two examples were walls built and used during wars. That's not the case at all with this wall.

As for the 70% success rate ...we are talking about stopping millions of people from crossing our borders. Those millions of people cost us 10s of billions of dollars. So it doesn't have to be 100% for it to be a win. As for the national security case...

if it was in a war setting like you seems to believe there would be planes, bombs, soldiers, tanks,...the whole freaking Army killing anyone that got close to the border. We both know that's not the case. Like I said the American border would move south day after day.

So unless you can produce facts, you failed in both attempts so far, I'm not wasting any more of my time with....

YOUR OPINIONS
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019 11:13 PM by WKUYG.)
01-07-2019 11:11 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #50
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:03 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:56 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:23 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Go back and reread, but let’s also address your point. Hadrians wall was built by the romans to keep northern barbarians from invading into Roman controlled modern England, guess what it didn’t do.

Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

You seem to think if something doesn't work 100% its a failure. That's not the case at all because if it stops 70, 80, 90% it's doing its job.

You are trying to compare walls build to defend and protect in a war setting to a wall that is to limit people coming to this country illegally. You and I both know you dont need 2,000 miles of wall for it to work. Of course you want to stop 100% but that's not going to be the case with anything. That's not the goal of any wall and where there's walls its slowed the flow of people illegally coming into this country.

So stop trying to put this into a war setting when you know that's not the case. If it was the wall would be backed up by soldiers, planes, bombs and guns shooting to kill when a person came with in a few feet of it. If this was a war setting the USA would be using ground monitoring devices for people trying to dig under it

They already have drones, ground motion sensors, nvgs, thermal sights, aerial (fixed+rotary wing) and etc. Is it a national security case or not? Cartels have already killed BP agents. It’s hard to defend anything that’d cost billions with perhaps a 70% success rate. Would you jump out of an airplane with a parachute that works 70% of the time?

Hard to defend a system that lets millions of illegal aliens enter our country every year. Every decade or so we have to do some sort of amnesty for 10-20 million. The current system doesnt work. As for cost---I suspect our crime/jail costs//murdered citizens/injured citizens/drug war/lost time due to drug addictions/free illegal hospitalization/illegal welfare/education costs for the millions of illegal aliens nationwide----for the last 30+ years since Regan's amnesty plan dwarfs the cost of the wall many many times over. Time to pay it forward.

Basically, its like saying---dont do a flood control project because there could still be some flooding. If it stops 90% of the illegal alien issue---its a HUGE boon to the nations finances. Otherwise---we are basically importing poverty.
(This post was last modified: 01-07-2019 11:20 PM by Attackcoog.)
01-07-2019 11:16 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 10:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

lol. A wall is more effective than the current red carpet. 100% guaranteed. As for Patton, when the illegal aliens are driving tanks and carrying Bagalore torpedoes we can start being concerned about the ineffectiveness of fixed positions. The physical barrier makes it much harder and more time consuming to cross, giving the current man power a better opportunity to discover and interdict the illegal entry. It works everywhere its tried. Why some people think its suddenly going to be worthless---I have no idea. The White House is surrounded by a physical barrier. If it didnt help, it wouldnt be there.

I agree with Jared's points. This is analogous to the War on Drugs if you think about it. The War on Drugs was primarily focused on killing the supply. That's the wrong tactic. We need to focus on the demand side of the equation. We need to extremely painful to American citizens to engage in any commerce with illegal immigrants. Do that and then the illegals will find nothing here for them to come to. Then they stop coming - or at least it makes a significant dent in illegal immigration.

Let's be clear about border security. It's not primarily focused on stopping terrorists. It's about stopping illegal immigration and narcotics from pouring into the country.
01-07-2019 11:18 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:11 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 11:03 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:56 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:35 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  Go back and reread what? I asked questions based off what your opinion was and a quote by Patton. So your answer is it didn't work for the Romans? That's the best you have?

There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

You seem to think if something doesn't work 100% its a failure. That's not the case at all because if it stops 70, 80, 90% it's doing its job.

You are trying to compare walls build to defend and protect in a war setting to a wall that is to limit people coming to this country illegally. You and I both know you dont need 2,000 miles of wall for it to work. Of course you want to stop 100% but that's not going to be the case with anything. That's not the goal of any wall and where there's walls its slowed the flow of people illegally coming into this country.

So stop trying to put this into a war setting when you know that's not the case. If it was the wall would be backed up by soldiers, planes, bombs and guns shooting to kill when a person came with in a few feet of it. If this was a war setting the USA would be using ground monitoring devices for people trying to dig under it

They already have drones, ground motion sensors, nvgs, thermal sights, aerial (fixed+rotary wing) and etc. Is it a national security case or not? Cartels have already killed BP agents. It’s hard to defend anything that’d cost billions with perhaps a 70% success rate. Would you jump out of an airplane with a parachute that works 70% of the time?

Just stop because you are not making any sense and moving the goal post Your two examples were walls built and used during wars. That's not the case at all with this wall.

As for the 70% success rate ...we are talking about stopping millions of people from crossing our borders. Those millions of people cost us 10s of billions of dollars. So it doesn't have to be 100% for it to be a win. As for the national security case...

if it was in a war setting like you seems to believe there would be planes, bombs, soldiers, tanks,...the whole freaking Army killing anyone that got close to the border. We both know that's not the case. Like I said the American border would move south day after day.

So unless you can produce facts, you failed in both attempts so far, I'm not wasting any more of my time with....

YOUR OPINIONS

Ok prove millions are crossing and they’re costing us billions. Cause that’s absurd. I just stated facts , I’m sorry you’re convoluting facts and opinions. Your opinion is a wallwill work. Historical facts prove the opposite. Are you going to suggest alcohol prohibition to combat dui’s?
01-07-2019 11:22 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #53
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

This stage is called denial.
01-07-2019 11:22 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:11 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 08:51 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:43 PM)Eagleaidaholic Wrote:  Yall are wasting your time. Give me 3 examples in which a wall does not work is the question you ask.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DLVdi14ECCc

They just walk across everywhere else. Nothing works 100% of the time. If you plan it well and only do it once, the chances are very good you can rob a bank and get away with it...once. Using the exception doesnt disprove the rule. Bama lost to ULM one year---I wound place my bets based on that data point,

I’m not saying $ shouldn’t be spent on border security. Hire more agents, build barrier funnels, more drones, more sensors, more rapid response, catch and deport as opposed to release. A wall is not a feasible nor financially responsible nor effective solution.
01-07-2019 11:28 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:22 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

This stage is called denial.

Agreed
01-07-2019 11:28 PM
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WKUYG Away
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Post: #56
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:18 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:53 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

lol. A wall is more effective than the current red carpet. 100% guaranteed. As for Patton, when the illegal aliens are driving tanks and carrying Bagalore torpedoes we can start being concerned about the ineffectiveness of fixed positions. The physical barrier makes it much harder and more time consuming to cross, giving the current man power a better opportunity to discover and interdict the illegal entry. It works everywhere its tried. Why some people think its suddenly going to be worthless---I have no idea. The White House is surrounded by a physical barrier. If it didnt help, it wouldnt be there.

I agree with Jared's points. This is analogous to the War on Drugs if you think about it. The War on Drugs was primarily focused on killing the supply. That's the wrong tactic. We need to focus on the demand side of the equation. We need to extremely painful to American citizens to engage in any commerce with illegal immigrants. Do that and then the illegals will find nothing here for them to come to. Then they stop coming - or at least it makes a significant dent in illegal immigration.

Let's be clear about border security. It's not primarily focused on stopping terrorists. It's about stopping illegal immigration and narcotics from pouring into the country.

The war on drugs made new federal laws that locked up users for years and years. With a 500 percent increase in incarceration since it was started.

The federal incarceration was fairly steady till Nixon started the war on drugs. Reagan's war on drugs increased those rates

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01-07-2019 11:30 PM
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Post: #57
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:22 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 11:11 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 11:03 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:56 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 10:40 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  There’s also the Great Wall but yeah why would empirical and historical examples of ineffectiveness be relevant? How about the video I posted with people jumping over the current wall in range of BP?

You seem to think if something doesn't work 100% its a failure. That's not the case at all because if it stops 70, 80, 90% it's doing its job.

You are trying to compare walls build to defend and protect in a war setting to a wall that is to limit people coming to this country illegally. You and I both know you dont need 2,000 miles of wall for it to work. Of course you want to stop 100% but that's not going to be the case with anything. That's not the goal of any wall and where there's walls its slowed the flow of people illegally coming into this country.

So stop trying to put this into a war setting when you know that's not the case. If it was the wall would be backed up by soldiers, planes, bombs and guns shooting to kill when a person came with in a few feet of it. If this was a war setting the USA would be using ground monitoring devices for people trying to dig under it

They already have drones, ground motion sensors, nvgs, thermal sights, aerial (fixed+rotary wing) and etc. Is it a national security case or not? Cartels have already killed BP agents. It’s hard to defend anything that’d cost billions with perhaps a 70% success rate. Would you jump out of an airplane with a parachute that works 70% of the time?

Just stop because you are not making any sense and moving the goal post Your two examples were walls built and used during wars. That's not the case at all with this wall.

As for the 70% success rate ...we are talking about stopping millions of people from crossing our borders. Those millions of people cost us 10s of billions of dollars. So it doesn't have to be 100% for it to be a win. As for the national security case...

if it was in a war setting like you seems to believe there would be planes, bombs, soldiers, tanks,...the whole freaking Army killing anyone that got close to the border. We both know that's not the case. Like I said the American border would move south day after day.

So unless you can produce facts, you failed in both attempts so far, I'm not wasting any more of my time with....

YOUR OPINIONS

Ok prove millions are crossing and they’re costing us billions. Cause that’s absurd. I just stated facts , I’m sorry you’re convoluting facts and opinions. Your opinion is a wallwill work. Historical facts prove the opposite. Are you going to suggest alcohol prohibition to combat dui’s?

There's been 3 or 4 examples, recent walls working, not of walls put up to help defend a war when the Romans controlled the world.

Honestly if I have to answer those questions it shows just how out of touch you are but a 5 second search showed the below. I'm not wasting any more time of something that even those on the far left probably would not argue

[Image: border-apprehensions.jpg]

Quote:https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201...lion-over/

Deporting the country’s estimated 11 million illegal immigrants would cost nearly $125 billion, but allowing them to remain in the U.S. could cost taxpayers far more, according to a new report being released Thursday by a think tank that wants to see stricter immigration limits.

Steven A. Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies, crunched the numbers and found that the current population of illegal immigrants will drain nearly $750 billion from taxpayers over their lifetimes — amounting to six times the deportation costs.
01-07-2019 11:43 PM
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200yrs2late Offline
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Post: #58
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 11:28 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 11:22 PM)200yrs2late Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 07:10 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Idc where you fall on border security, putting a wall up won’t stop anything. Physical barriers can easily be overcome and are ineffective. The only surefire way to seal an open border would be to mine it but I doubt private land owners would like that.

Patton suggested that fortifications were monuments to the stupidity of man.

This stage is called denial.

Agreed

Good. Now that you are aware you are suffering from denial, it's time to take the next step on the road to recovery.
01-07-2019 11:45 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #59
RE: The Wall won’t work
Quite the opposite. Apparently history doesn’t affect your opinions. If you feel that strongly about it, they have a gofundme setup. I suggest donating your monthly income.
01-07-2019 11:50 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #60
RE: The Wall won’t work
(01-07-2019 09:39 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 09:34 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 09:17 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 09:00 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 08:42 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  Then you’re very simple minded. There’s no difference of will of the determined, as a war vet I know the similarities. Good day

Let me know when illegal immigrants have air strikes and precision artillery dumb***.

Yes cause that’s what al Qaeda and insurgents do in Iraq right? Talk about something you have one iota of knowledge please. You’re too stupid to understand you’re stupid. If it’s a national security issue, you’d better address it like one.

OK moron....let me know when they are launching illegals over the border with rockets and mortars or using them to breach the walls already in place in San Diego, El Paso, and elsewhere. You know...the walls that drastically decreased illegal entries already.

And I'm all in favor of treating border security as a national security issue. Put machine gun nests in towers and employ snipers and kill everyone who crosses the border illicitly if they don't immediately surrender.

Again, you have no idea what you’re talking about and cartels do fire into our country with heavy grade military weapons. They have built sophisticated tunnels with air pumps and electricity. Is it really that far fetched for them to use breaching tools? You know how easy it to construct a bomb right?
Like I originally said, you’d be better off mining the entire thing and saving a ton of money and man power

Strange....I've yet to read about an illegal alien launched over the border.

or any of them using a bomb to breach the existing walls you are conveniently ignoring in your ignorant posts.
01-08-2019 12:44 AM
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