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ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
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TerryD Online
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Post: #81
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-10-2019 12:17 PM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  Notre Dame, for decades, has received privileges and enabling not afforded to others. Stop with the requests for special accommodations that essentially only apply to them for a sought advantage.

Many schools would enjoy hand-picking all their opponents from across the nation for exposure, recruiting, and a lucrative TV (NBC) contract while remaining secure in a lofty conference for their other sports. This "national schedule" argument by Notre Dame is a privilege unto itself.

Swarbrick needs to add 3 more ACC games to ND's fb schedule, and terminate the lobbying efforts for more unique and selfish accommodations.

I don't blame Notre Dame, really. I blame the enabling governing committees and association, broadcast media, the ACC, the old Big East, certain sponsors, some BIG schools, Southern Cal, Stanford, etc.

If many schools would enjoy "hand picking" (not really true for ND as the ACC picks 5 opponents, ND merely provides the open dates) their opponents, then they are free to become football independents.

They should go for it.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 12:26 PM by TerryD.)
01-10-2019 12:25 PM
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Aztec Since 88 Offline
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Post: #82
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
IMO if Notre Dame wants a 13th game every year they either need to join a conference or just schedule Hawaii on the Islands over Labor Day weekend each year so their fans can travel and the be eligible for a 13th game.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 10:49 AM by Aztec Since 88.)
01-11-2019 10:48 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #83
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-11-2019 10:48 AM)Aztec Since 88 Wrote:  IMO if Notre Dame wants a 13th game every year they either need to join a conference or just schedule Hawaii on the Islands over Labor Day weekend each year so their fans can travel and the be eligible for a 13th game.

ND doesn't want a 13th game.

Swarbrick just wants to keep mentioning that the "13th data point" for conference champs usually includes an FCS game, which ND never plays.

He also wants to deflect the "13th data point" folks by saying ND is willing to play a 13th game if the NCAA wants to pass such legislation (which he well knows that they won't).

He is just playing politics here.
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2019 11:30 AM by TerryD.)
01-11-2019 11:30 AM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #84
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-11-2019 11:30 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 10:48 AM)Aztec Since 88 Wrote:  IMO if Notre Dame wants a 13th game every year they either need to join a conference or just schedule Hawaii on the Islands over Labor Day weekend each year so their fans can travel and the be eligible for a 13th game.

ND doesn't want a 13th game.

Swarbrick just wants to keep mentioning that the "13th data point" for conference champs usually includes an FCS game, which ND never plays.

He also wants to deflect the "13th data point" folks by saying ND is willing to play a 13th game if the NCAA wants to pass such legislation (which he well knows that they won't).

He is just playing politics here.

That is a fair point. Clemson and Alabama both played 12 FBS games just like Notre Dame. Would giving Notre Dame a 13th game to play an FCS school really change anything
01-11-2019 08:10 PM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #85
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
The problem for Notre Dame isn't the 13th data point, it's being dark on Championship Saturday. It's similar to what the Big Ten faced when they had their final games of the year the weekend before Thanksgiving and then literally gave the SEC 2 weeks to themselves.
01-11-2019 09:30 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #86
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
A big Ten champ plays 13 FBS games--because we have standards when it comes to cupcakes.
01-12-2019 08:45 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #87
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 08:45 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  A big Ten champ plays 13 FBS games--because we have standards when it comes to cupcakes.

Yes because Akron, Tulane, and Troy are all superior tests against the might Big 10. 03-lmfao



Purdue, who jack slapped Ohio State, lost to NW, who lost to Duke.
NW lost to Duke. Does this mean Duke is better than NW and Ohio State due to the magical power of transitive wins and losses?


If you don't beat Duke and don't beat who loses to those who lost to Duke does a 13th data point matter? ND is not handpicking its ACC games. The ACC picks them and schedules them. That's why you can see most of them out into the future on Future College Football. The ones that are not scheduled tend to be that way because the ACC schools are not yet certain when they can play.


(I'm not picking on Duke and Duke is not a bad program just using them as an example of a non-elite program - but then Michigan is supposedly elite - what happened to them this year?)
(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019 09:02 AM by Statefan.)
01-12-2019 08:53 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #88
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
The question should never be how many games you played, but how many you scheduled against teams that have a reasonable chance of beating you. The reality of college football is that teams in the MAC, C-USA and SBC rarely win against Top 40 teams from the P5 conferences. And in any given year, FBS teams outside the Top 40 don't have much chance of upsetting any school that has a realistic chance of being considered for the CFP either.

Typically, any school in contention for a CFP slot will have played at least six, and probably no more than eight games where they were really exposed to the possibiity of losing. That's enough for a theoretically expert panel to evaluate their strength relative to other contenders.

12 data points or 13 really don't matter.
01-12-2019 09:14 AM
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stxrunner Online
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Post: #89
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
My goodness, there are a bunch of whiners in here. The system is set up to allow each FBS program to do what is best for themselves. Forcing ND to join a conference is a ridiculous concept. If you want things to be 'fair and equitable', then our system should look a lot more like the FCS and other divisions that essentially just split everything equally.

ND has the pull to be special because they bring in so much money for the sport. If Alabama, Texas, and Ohio St don't like it, they are free to give Independence a go themselves. Otherwise, ND can do what they like.

Either each school/conference gets to decide what's best for them in a free market or we don't. You can't have it both ways just because ND can pull it off and virtually nobody else can.
01-12-2019 09:58 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #90
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-11-2019 09:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The problem for Notre Dame isn't the 13th data point, it's being dark on Championship Saturday. It's similar to what the Big Ten faced when they had their final games of the year the weekend before Thanksgiving and then literally gave the SEC 2 weeks to themselves.

I agree. It's about potential revenue access that others in conferences have with the CCG that ND doesn't get.

They may not want to play one, but they'd want it for the sake of keeping up monetarily. There is a difference between the two. In the same way majors "need" seven home games. No they don't.

The Big Ten has been a giant pain about this. And, oddly, they are for the thirteenth game because it allows for a ten-game conference season, where more in the conference can regain something they've been wanting ever since expansion to eleven...the ability for the ten "originals" to play the old conference schedule again in its entirety. But, oddly enough, when an extra game is proposed for something like a playoff? No, that's a burden for the kids.

It's ALL politics and control.
01-12-2019 10:00 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #91
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 09:58 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  My goodness, there are a bunch of whiners in here. The system is set up to allow each FBS program to do what is best for themselves. Forcing ND to join a conference is a ridiculous concept. If you want things to be 'fair and equitable', then our system should look a lot more like the FCS and other divisions that essentially just split everything equally.

ND has the pull to be special because they bring in so much money for the sport. If Alabama, Texas, and Ohio St don't like it, they are free to give Independence a go themselves. Otherwise, ND can do what they like.

Either each school/conference gets to decide what's best for them in a free market or we don't. You can't have it both ways just because ND can pull it off and virtually nobody else can.

Well, conversely, what's to stop Notre Dame from playing a thirteenth game as an exhibition if nobody will allow them outright? Or anyone for that matter?

Somebody would pay to pick the game up if not NBC.
01-12-2019 10:05 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #92
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 10:00 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 09:30 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The problem for Notre Dame isn't the 13th data point, it's being dark on Championship Saturday. It's similar to what the Big Ten faced when they had their final games of the year the weekend before Thanksgiving and then literally gave the SEC 2 weeks to themselves.

I agree. It's about potential revenue access that others in conferences have with the CCG that ND doesn't get.

They may not want to play one, but they'd want it for the sake of keeping up monetarily. There is a difference between the two. In the same way majors "need" seven home games. No they don't.

The Big Ten has been a giant pain about this. And, oddly, they are for the thirteenth game because it allows for a ten-game conference season, where more in the conference can regain something they've been wanting ever since expansion to eleven...the ability for the ten "originals" to play the old conference schedule again in its entirety. But, oddly enough, when an extra game is proposed for something like a playoff? No, that's a burden for the kids.

It's ALL politics and control.


They don't want anything to do with football conference affiliation, period.

They don't want the revenue from a title game, since that would mean full membership entanglement with a football conference.

There is nothing that can be done about ND being "dark" on conference title day, since anything different would be a complete surrender by ND to the conference structure.
01-12-2019 10:19 AM
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TerryD Online
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Post: #93
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 10:05 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:58 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  My goodness, there are a bunch of whiners in here. The system is set up to allow each FBS program to do what is best for themselves. Forcing ND to join a conference is a ridiculous concept. If you want things to be 'fair and equitable', then our system should look a lot more like the FCS and other divisions that essentially just split everything equally.

ND has the pull to be special because they bring in so much money for the sport. If Alabama, Texas, and Ohio St don't like it, they are free to give Independence a go themselves. Otherwise, ND can do what they like.

Either each school/conference gets to decide what's best for them in a free market or we don't. You can't have it both ways just because ND can pull it off and virtually nobody else can.

Well, conversely, what's to stop Notre Dame from playing a thirteenth game as an exhibition if nobody will allow them outright? Or anyone for that matter?

Somebody would pay to pick the game up if not NBC.

Ridiculous. ND doesn't really want a 13th game, let alone an exhibition one.
01-12-2019 10:20 AM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #94
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
BYU not busy on CCG wkend
01-12-2019 10:29 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #95
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-07-2019 11:36 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2019 08:04 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't have a problem with it.

I don't understand the demand that they join a conference.

I don't understand how people don't understand it.
ND lives outside of the bubble and can operate in a totally different manner than the other teams. They are granted special access to everything because they were once dominant. That's like saying the Canadiens and Celtics have an auto spot in the playoffs because of their previous titles. Imagine looking at the NBA Standings and seeing 6 divisions - 5 have 5 teams, one has 4 teams and the Celtics are listed as Independent and determine their opponents each year. Just join the ACC already.

And because they've been lionized by Hollywood's weepy portrayals of the Gipper and Rudy.
01-12-2019 11:03 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #96
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 11:03 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 11:36 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2019 08:04 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I don't have a problem with it.

I don't understand the demand that they join a conference.

I don't understand how people don't understand it.
ND lives outside of the bubble and can operate in a totally different manner than the other teams. They are granted special access to everything because they were once dominant. That's like saying the Canadiens and Celtics have an auto spot in the playoffs because of their previous titles. Imagine looking at the NBA Standings and seeing 6 divisions - 5 have 5 teams, one has 4 teams and the Celtics are listed as Independent and determine their opponents each year. Just join the ACC already.

And because they've been lionized by Hollywood's weepy portrayals of the Gipper and Rudy.

You guys are ridiculous. No other independent program recruits and schedules P5 teams like Notre Dame. They are considered P5 because they are P5 in everything except conference affiliation. Where in the rule book does it state a team has to be in a conference? I admire ND because they remain independent, one of the great traditions of college football that was ruined by TV money.
01-12-2019 11:29 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #97
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 10:05 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:58 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  My goodness, there are a bunch of whiners in here. The system is set up to allow each FBS program to do what is best for themselves. Forcing ND to join a conference is a ridiculous concept. If you want things to be 'fair and equitable', then our system should look a lot more like the FCS and other divisions that essentially just split everything equally.

ND has the pull to be special because they bring in so much money for the sport. If Alabama, Texas, and Ohio St don't like it, they are free to give Independence a go themselves. Otherwise, ND can do what they like.

Either each school/conference gets to decide what's best for them in a free market or we don't. You can't have it both ways just because ND can pull it off and virtually nobody else can.

Well, conversely, what's to stop Notre Dame from playing a thirteenth game as an exhibition if nobody will allow them outright? Or anyone for that matter?

Somebody would pay to pick the game up if not NBC.

Ridiculous. ND doesn't really want a 13th game, let alone an exhibition one.

Ridiculous is you contradicting what Notre Dame’s own official has said about a thirteenth game.

We hear your opinion, but you should check in with your school, really.
01-12-2019 04:24 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #98
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 10:05 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:58 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  My goodness, there are a bunch of whiners in here. The system is set up to allow each FBS program to do what is best for themselves. Forcing ND to join a conference is a ridiculous concept. If you want things to be 'fair and equitable', then our system should look a lot more like the FCS and other divisions that essentially just split everything equally.

ND has the pull to be special because they bring in so much money for the sport. If Alabama, Texas, and Ohio St don't like it, they are free to give Independence a go themselves. Otherwise, ND can do what they like.

Either each school/conference gets to decide what's best for them in a free market or we don't. You can't have it both ways just because ND can pull it off and virtually nobody else can.

Well, conversely, what's to stop Notre Dame from playing a thirteenth game as an exhibition if nobody will allow them outright? Or anyone for that matter?

Somebody would pay to pick the game up if not NBC.

NCAA rules.
01-12-2019 05:51 PM
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TerryD Online
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RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-12-2019 04:24 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 10:20 AM)TerryD Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 10:05 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(01-12-2019 09:58 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  My goodness, there are a bunch of whiners in here. The system is set up to allow each FBS program to do what is best for themselves. Forcing ND to join a conference is a ridiculous concept. If you want things to be 'fair and equitable', then our system should look a lot more like the FCS and other divisions that essentially just split everything equally.

ND has the pull to be special because they bring in so much money for the sport. If Alabama, Texas, and Ohio St don't like it, they are free to give Independence a go themselves. Otherwise, ND can do what they like.

Either each school/conference gets to decide what's best for them in a free market or we don't. You can't have it both ways just because ND can pull it off and virtually nobody else can.

Well, conversely, what's to stop Notre Dame from playing a thirteenth game as an exhibition if nobody will allow them outright? Or anyone for that matter?

Somebody would pay to pick the game up if not NBC.

Ridiculous. ND doesn't really want a 13th game, let alone an exhibition one.

Ridiculous is you contradicting what Notre Dame’s own official has said about a thirteenth game.

We hear your opinion, but you should check in with your school, really.

What good would an exhibition game do for ND?
01-12-2019 10:51 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #100
RE: ND wants NCAA to allow them a 13th game
(01-10-2019 11:40 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:41 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 04:54 PM)whittx Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 01:56 PM)bullet Wrote:  
(01-07-2019 09:44 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  It goes without saying, but Notre Dame will not be forced to join a conference. Notre Dame provides incredible value as an independent. Forcing them to join the ACC would be forcing them to lose their value playing a national schedule (which is better for the NCAA for popularity reasons). As long as there is a conceivable pathway for ND to earn a playoff spot (much like this season), then there really is no problem with the current landscape. It would be akin to forcing the SEC to relinquish their FCS buy-games, which offer tremendous value as additional home games for revenue, in favor of equal home/away games with other conferences. You cannot force a program, which already has established and considerable value, to give that up because it better aligns the structural system. Not all programs are created equal, as shown in college football.

I will say, however, that since Notre Dame (and others) choose to remain independent, they should not be given special privileges to have an additional 13th game in order to compete against teams that have a conference championship opportunity. Doing so would open up Pandora's Box and allow all schools not in a CCG to schedule a 13th game during that open week as well, which would (conceivably) take away the platforms of the Conference Championships.

Notre Dame has absolutely zero value as an independent to anyone other than Notre Dame. I think their independence isn't really of value to them either, but that's hard to quantify.

As long as they have the NBC deal (or something similar), they are in no hurry to move. The second this goes away and nobody else bids on their games, they would be the 15th team in the ACC within a month.

That's the thing though: ND has concrete value as an Independent. Networks (NBC) pay them a determined amount to broadcast their games (and, conversely, major college programs schedule them as an Independent because of the exposure and value they provide). If they didn't provide value, big programs like Alabama, Texas, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Michigan, Texas A&M and Georgia would not have scheduled Notre Dame to play them - either in the past ten years or in the future - nor would other big programs like USC and Stanford continue scheduling them annually.

The people that get frustrated by Notre Dame's independence are either frustrated that their program cannot receive the same considerations, or are ignorant of what Notre Dame brings to the table. Either way, Notre Dame's status is not changing - and the P5 will continue to make accommodations for them because there remains value in the current construction. 07-coffee3

For the Bluebloods of college football, those 7 schools you rattled off for example, could all very well command top dollar for their media rights as independents but they choose to work within the confines of a conference. It's not the 80s anymore. The days of the independents are over but Notre Dame remains 3 decades behind due to their own hubris.

I think the days of coddling the Irish are over. Notice that the Irish got no special provisions in the CFP like they had in Bowl Alliance, Bowl Coalition, and BCS.

Those 7 schools could probably command very respectabe contracts as independents. But they likely wouldn't command as much money as they do now because they are part of a conference. That's true for Notre Dame as well. By being independent, they are leaving a lot of money on the table. The seven schools on that list don't want to be independent, not just because it would cost them money, but also because it would sometimes keep them from being able to play against schools they want to play - often, if not every year.

Being in a football conference suits what those schools perceive to be their mission. That's just not true for Notre Dame (or apparently BYU or Army). What is true hubris is fans of other schools thinking they should be able to tell Notre Dame that their mission should be what those fans want it to be for their own selfish reasons.
01-13-2019 02:56 PM
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