(01-11-2019 09:47 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  When considering a #16, assuming that FSU and Miami say NIMBY to a U_F, if you are considering Temple, Cincy, UConn, and WVU in terms of markets Temple is the no brainer. But it's become evident that it's no longer a market driven industry but a content based one. Temple gets you a tiny sliver of the biggest market but does little in the way of producing high demand on-field/court content.

WVU is head and shoulders the best candidate in terms of content and demand. The question is will historic and academic prejudices keep them barred in favor of someone with a weaker resume. At this point they've taken in Louisville so it's not like they haven't tread this slope before. WVU also has history with all of those ex-BE schools and would restore a lot of old and desirable match ups notably with Pitt and VT but also with Cuse, L'ville, and Miami as well.

Exactly. The Florida schools are non-starters. There is no way any school president does that to FSU after all the noteriety they brought to the football league.

WVU is head and shoulders above any realistic candidate despite their negative marks. Then UConn, as evidence in the Louisville decision. I put Temple out there (they are in the fourth or so largest media market) to illustrate if markets mattered they’d be in over Cincinnati. I’m sorry, but if you’re not Ohio State, you don’t matter in Ohio. Unless of course you’re Michigan, which is the second most followed team in Ohio. Bet.

I’m sure some or many ACC fans would disagree but losing Maryland still seems weird. If the current B1G and SEC schools are off the table as well as Texas and Oklahoma, then my list would be:

1. Notre Dame all-in (obviously)
2. West Virginia - immediate positive athletic impact
3. Cincinnati - good, not great, athletic brand in a highly populated state with much talent
4. TCU + Houston - both together or no deal
5. Memphis - (see Cincinnati description)
6. UCF + USF - (see TCU + Houston description; would be above Cincinnati if the ACC didn’t already cover the State of Florida)
7. Temple - (see Cincinnati description)
8. Connecticut - flagship but rapidly declining athletic department except in women’s basketball

Yes, it is weird that Maryland is gone. I flipped to the Maryland-Indiana game tonight and thought “oh, the ACC-Big Ten Challenge!” It’ll take me a long time to get used to it.

Everything really changed in the early 2000’s though. The round robin died, coaches retired, teams slumped, and BC was a new team awkwardly on an island.

I miss Maryland, but I really miss Gary Williams’ Maryland. I always admired their teams and loved watching them beat Duke.

When the Big XII and WVU were in talks, Louisville swooped in and tried to get the Big XII to reconsider. The state of WV was already in the process of extending the airport’s runway to accommodate mid to large airliners, and road improvement work had begun. When UL did that, it pissed Sen. Joe Manchin off royally. He gave UL the what for and made it clear that there would be litigation.

I could see the ACC possibly taking a flyer on WVU, but they’d be on a tight leash I’m sure. That would potentially open up three spots in the Big XII (probably for Memphis, Houston, and UCF as there would be no need to link WV and the western schools).

No way the Florida Twins get offered to the ACC. No one would want to put them on equal footing in the P5. Their only hope is the Big 12 or FSU or Miami bolting the ACC.

(01-10-2019 10:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  Cincinnati like West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again, and with a much bigger market. The Penn State ship has already sailed.

The appeal of Cincinnati is that it's probably the only school outside the P5 that would pay it's own way in ACC Network revenue. Of the factors like football (80%) and basketball (20%) prowess, as well as football recruiting, Cincinnati actually looks good on ALL of these criteria. The downside is a relatively small fan base; the Buckeye state is dominated by the Buckeyes. I suppose that could change if UC were a P5 team. All that said, UC is not as "slam dunk" as a team like Penn State would've been, but if the ACC doesn't get someone like a Texas in the next round, I could see them going after the Bearcats some day...

(01-12-2019 12:48 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  ...

I could see the ACC possibly taking a flyer on WVU, but they’d be on a tight leash I’m sure. That would potentially open up three spots in the Big XII (probably for Memphis, Houston, and UCF as there would be no need to link WV and the western schools).

Memphis didn't make the cut when the Big XII had their public rose ceremony. It was the academic side that killed them, they could not win the search committee Presidents and Chancellors. This even though FedEx and Memphis tried to but their way in. Not happening. So what changed or will change to make Memphis academically acceptable to Presidents and Chancellors in 2025 that wasn't in 2016?

The Presidents/Chancellors like Tulane and Rice, but Rice is a non starter for the networks and the ADs, and Tulane isn't much either on that front. UConn is not a football school, and location probably rules them out. Air Force pulled themselves out, so I doubt they'd be revisited. Temple and USF haven't shown the investment or results necessary. So I think you can scratch them (USF is in trim mode due to the loss of Big East exit money windfall). So what left of the eleven?

UCF, Houston, Cincy, Colorado State, BYU

That is you likely group for 2-3 replacements. BYU has the infrastructure in place, but is both farther away (another West Virginia, but the other direction) and the honor code issues are still there and an anathema for the Presidents and Chancellors -- don't know how desperate they would be after losing Oklahoma and Texas (or Kansas), but you'd think they'd serious consider at least Football membership. Colorado State has the Denver market the B12 desperately wants to get back into, and the best faculty/research rating outside of the Rice Tulane duo, with facilities upgrades, a new stadium and general positive direction. Cincinnati also has pretty strong research and faculty, but suffers like UCF in too much of a 2nd tier commuter student population. Houston is probably a fair bet if Texas leaves, a bad bet if Texas stays (don't need them with Texas). UCF is weaker than both Cincy and Houston academically, but have a huge Florida recruiting advantage.

Given that I'd rate all four public schools (UC, UH, UCF, CSU) very similar value for the Big 12 with BYU a wild card.It may come down to who is hot in 2022 and 2023 or who has the most charismatic University President at the time. Anyway those five are whom I think the 2 or 3 replacements will come from.

(01-12-2019 04:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 12:48 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  ...

I could see the ACC possibly taking a flyer on WVU, but they’d be on a tight leash I’m sure. That would potentially open up three spots in the Big XII (probably for Memphis, Houston, and UCF as there would be no need to link WV and the western schools).

Memphis didn't make the cut when the Big XII had their public rose ceremony. It was the academic side that killed them, they could not win the search committee Presidents and Chancellors. This even though FedEx and Memphis tried to but their way in. Not happening. So what changed or will change to make Memphis academically acceptable to Presidents and Chancellors in 2025 that wasn't in 2016?

The Presidents/Chancellors like Tulane and Rice, but Rice is a non starter for the networks and the ADs, and Tulane isn't much either on that front. UConn is not a football school, and location probably rules them out. Air Force pulled themselves out, so I doubt they'd be revisited. Temple and USF haven't shown the investment or results necessary. So I think you can scratch them (USF is in trim mode due to the loss of Big East exit money windfall). So what left of the eleven?

UCF, Houston, Cincy, Colorado State, BYU

That is you likely group for 2-3 replacements. BYU has the infrastructure in place, but is both farther away (another West Virginia, but the other direction) and the honor code issues are still there and an anathema for the Presidents and Chancellors -- don't know how desperate they would be after losing Oklahoma and Texas (or Kansas), but you'd think they'd serious consider at least Football membership. Colorado State has the Denver market the B12 desperately wants to get back into, and the best faculty/research rating outside of the Rice Tulane duo, with facilities upgrades, a new stadium and general positive direction. Cincinnati also has pretty strong research and faculty, but suffers like UCF in too much of a 2nd tier commuter student population. Houston is probably a fair bet if Texas leaves, a bad bet if Texas stays (don't need them with Texas). UCF is weaker than both Cincy and Houston academically, but have a huge Florida recruiting advantage.

Given that I'd rate all four public schools (UC, UH, UCF, CSU) very similar value for the Big 12 with BYU a wild card.It may come down to who is hot in 2022 and 2023 or who has the most charismatic University President at the time. Anyway those five are whom I think the 2 or 3 replacements will come from.

The eleven finalists for the Big XII included SMU, not Temple. I don’t recall Air Force pulling themselves out, was that this latest round, or after Nebraska and Mizzou left?

(01-13-2019 09:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 04:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 12:48 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  ...

I could see the ACC possibly taking a flyer on WVU, but they’d be on a tight leash I’m sure. That would potentially open up three spots in the Big XII (probably for Memphis, Houston, and UCF as there would be no need to link WV and the western schools).

Memphis didn't make the cut when the Big XII had their public rose ceremony. It was the academic side that killed them, they could not win the search committee Presidents and Chancellors. This even though FedEx and Memphis tried to but their way in. Not happening. So what changed or will change to make Memphis academically acceptable to Presidents and Chancellors in 2025 that wasn't in 2016?

The Presidents/Chancellors like Tulane and Rice, but Rice is a non starter for the networks and the ADs, and Tulane isn't much either on that front. UConn is not a football school, and location probably rules them out. Air Force pulled themselves out, so I doubt they'd be revisited. Temple and USF haven't shown the investment or results necessary. So I think you can scratch them (USF is in trim mode due to the loss of Big East exit money windfall). So what left of the eleven?

UCF, Houston, Cincy, Colorado State, BYU

That is you likely group for 2-3 replacements. BYU has the infrastructure in place, but is both farther away (another West Virginia, but the other direction) and the honor code issues are still there and an anathema for the Presidents and Chancellors -- don't know how desperate they would be after losing Oklahoma and Texas (or Kansas), but you'd think they'd serious consider at least Football membership. Colorado State has the Denver market the B12 desperately wants to get back into, and the best faculty/research rating outside of the Rice Tulane duo, with facilities upgrades, a new stadium and general positive direction. Cincinnati also has pretty strong research and faculty, but suffers like UCF in too much of a 2nd tier commuter student population. Houston is probably a fair bet if Texas leaves, a bad bet if Texas stays (don't need them with Texas). UCF is weaker than both Cincy and Houston academically, but have a huge Florida recruiting advantage.

Given that I'd rate all four public schools (UC, UH, UCF, CSU) very similar value for the Big 12 with BYU a wild card.It may come down to who is hot in 2022 and 2023 or who has the most charismatic University President at the time. Anyway those five are whom I think the 2 or 3 replacements will come from.

The eleven finalists for the Big XII included SMU, not Temple. I don’t recall Air Force pulling themselves out, was that this latest round, or after Nebraska and Mizzou left?

Air Force was after Nebraska and CU left.

AFA decision maker basically said he’d love to join but he couldn’t subject their kids to week after week of P5 ball and the physical toll it takes.

If not for that you’ve probably got a 2011 Big 12 north including BYU and AFA.

(01-13-2019 02:06 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 09:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 04:24 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-12-2019 12:48 PM)THUNDERStruck73 Wrote:  ...

I could see the ACC possibly taking a flyer on WVU, but they’d be on a tight leash I’m sure. That would potentially open up three spots in the Big XII (probably for Memphis, Houston, and UCF as there would be no need to link WV and the western schools).

Memphis didn't make the cut when the Big XII had their public rose ceremony. It was the academic side that killed them, they could not win the search committee Presidents and Chancellors. This even though FedEx and Memphis tried to but their way in. Not happening. So what changed or will change to make Memphis academically acceptable to Presidents and Chancellors in 2025 that wasn't in 2016?

The Presidents/Chancellors like Tulane and Rice, but Rice is a non starter for the networks and the ADs, and Tulane isn't much either on that front. UConn is not a football school, and location probably rules them out. Air Force pulled themselves out, so I doubt they'd be revisited. Temple and USF haven't shown the investment or results necessary. So I think you can scratch them (USF is in trim mode due to the loss of Big East exit money windfall). So what left of the eleven?

UCF, Houston, Cincy, Colorado State, BYU

That is you likely group for 2-3 replacements. BYU has the infrastructure in place, but is both farther away (another West Virginia, but the other direction) and the honor code issues are still there and an anathema for the Presidents and Chancellors -- don't know how desperate they would be after losing Oklahoma and Texas (or Kansas), but you'd think they'd serious consider at least Football membership. Colorado State has the Denver market the B12 desperately wants to get back into, and the best faculty/research rating outside of the Rice Tulane duo, with facilities upgrades, a new stadium and general positive direction. Cincinnati also has pretty strong research and faculty, but suffers like UCF in too much of a 2nd tier commuter student population. Houston is probably a fair bet if Texas leaves, a bad bet if Texas stays (don't need them with Texas). UCF is weaker than both Cincy and Houston academically, but have a huge Florida recruiting advantage.

Given that I'd rate all four public schools (UC, UH, UCF, CSU) very similar value for the Big 12 with BYU a wild card.It may come down to who is hot in 2022 and 2023 or who has the most charismatic University President at the time. Anyway those five are whom I think the 2 or 3 replacements will come from.

The eleven finalists for the Big XII included SMU, not Temple. I don’t recall Air Force pulling themselves out, was that this latest round, or after Nebraska and Mizzou left?

Air Force was after Nebraska and Mizzou left.

AFA decision maker basically said he’d love to join but he couldn’t subject their kids to week after week of P5 ball and the physical toll it takes.

If not for that you’ve probably got a 2011 Big 12 north including BYU and AFA.

That was a smart decision. The academies are competitive as solid FBS programs but weekly games against traditional powers would be too much. In my perfect FBS world, the 3 academies are independent along with Notre Dame and BYU.

But oddly, AFA was said to be an applicant for that hoax expansion search a few years ago. The B12 was too competitive then but not now? Then again, if you thought you could keep up with TCU...

(01-13-2019 04:27 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  But oddly, AFA was said to be an applicant for that hoax expansion search a few years ago. The B12 was too competitive then but not now? Then again, if you thought you could keep up with TCU...

One thing is to play your peers Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado State and the other two service academies. Another thing is to play Texas and Oklahoma every year. If I’m not mistaken they were offered a football only invite and were exploring the WAC, Big Sky and Summitt for options (I don’t know if they made it that far) I can’t imagine AFA basketball competing in the Big XII. As bad as they’ve been in the WAC and MWC, the Big XII would completely destroy their program.

(01-13-2019 04:27 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  But oddly, AFA was said to be an applicant for that hoax expansion search a few years ago. The B12 was too competitive then but not now? Then again, if you thought you could keep up with TCU...

Could be new faces in the decision maker roles or it could have been a token gesture to appease their Fanbase.

(01-13-2019 09:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  The eleven finalists for the Big XII included SMU, not Temple. I don’t recall Air Force pulling themselves out, was that this latest round, or after Nebraska and Mizzou left?

Both wrong, SMU and Temple both made the cut. But both are dead man walking, very bottom. AF backed out on the list. Frank pretty much mirror's my take on Tulane and Rice, they are academic prestige points but not enough athletic. UConn has the right stuff except they are nothing in football and too far away. He also doesn't think USF or UCF stand on their own (I am not of that opinion). But whatever. Same five are left for me when you trim the long shots (CSU, UH, UC, BYU and UCF for me but not Frank who puts UConn ahead).

https://frankthetank.me/2016/09/01/big-1...imination/

The whole point of my post, Memphis did not make the cut. Repeat Memphis did not make the cut, they are out.

(01-13-2019 06:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 09:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  The eleven finalists for the Big XII included SMU, not Temple. I don’t recall Air Force pulling themselves out, was that this latest round, or after Nebraska and Mizzou left?

Both wrong, SMU and Temple both made the cut. But both are dead man walking, very bottom. AF backed out on the list. Frank pretty much mirror's my take on Tulane and Rice, they are academic prestige points but not enough athletic. UConn has the right stuff except they are nothing in football and too far away. He also doesn't think USF or UCF stand on their own (I am not of that opinion). But whatever. Same five are left for me when you trim the long shots (CSU, UH, UC, BYU and UCF for me but not Frank who puts UConn ahead).

https://frankthetank.me/2016/09/01/big-1...imination/

The whole point of my post, Memphis did not make the cut. Repeat Memphis did not make the cut, they are out.

No I’m not.

“ESPN now reports that 11 made the cut. They are: Air Force, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Houston, Rice, South Florida, SMU and Tulane.“

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc.../89785544/

Memphis and Temple were cut at the same time, UNLV, UNM, and ECU before that.

(01-14-2019 12:17 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 06:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 09:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  The eleven finalists for the Big XII included SMU, not Temple. I don’t recall Air Force pulling themselves out, was that this latest round, or after Nebraska and Mizzou left?

Both wrong, SMU and Temple both made the cut. But both are dead man walking, very bottom. AF backed out on the list. Frank pretty much mirror's my take on Tulane and Rice, they are academic prestige points but not enough athletic. UConn has the right stuff except they are nothing in football and too far away. He also doesn't think USF or UCF stand on their own (I am not of that opinion). But whatever. Same five are left for me when you trim the long shots (CSU, UH, UC, BYU and UCF for me but not Frank who puts UConn ahead).

https://frankthetank.me/2016/09/01/big-1...imination/

The whole point of my post, Memphis did not make the cut. Repeat Memphis did not make the cut, they are out.

No I’m not.

“ESPN now reports that 11 made the cut. They are: Air Force, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Houston, Rice, South Florida, SMU and Tulane.“

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc.../89785544/

Memphis and Temple were cut at the same time, UNLV, UNM, and ECU before that.

Texas err the Big XII rejected Memphis. Texas will never put up being associated with a school such as Memphis. See Louisville.

(01-14-2019 12:39 AM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-14-2019 12:17 AM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 06:49 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  

(01-13-2019 09:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  The eleven finalists for the Big XII included SMU, not Temple. I don’t recall Air Force pulling themselves out, was that this latest round, or after Nebraska and Mizzou left?

Both wrong, SMU and Temple both made the cut. But both are dead man walking, very bottom. AF backed out on the list. Frank pretty much mirror's my take on Tulane and Rice, they are academic prestige points but not enough athletic. UConn has the right stuff except they are nothing in football and too far away. He also doesn't think USF or UCF stand on their own (I am not of that opinion). But whatever. Same five are left for me when you trim the long shots (CSU, UH, UC, BYU and UCF for me but not Frank who puts UConn ahead).

https://frankthetank.me/2016/09/01/big-1...imination/

The whole point of my post, Memphis did not make the cut. Repeat Memphis did not make the cut, they are out.

No I’m not.

“ESPN now reports that 11 made the cut. They are: Air Force, BYU, UCF, Cincinnati, Colorado State, UConn, Houston, Rice, South Florida, SMU and Tulane.“

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nc.../89785544/

Memphis and Temple were cut at the same time, UNLV, UNM, and ECU before that.

Texas err the Big XII rejected Memphis. Texas will never put up being associated with a school such as Memphis. See Louisville.

IMO, the only three with a shot were BYU, Cincinnati, and Houston. CSU had an outside chance. In the end, the Big XII got to play a title game without divisions so they had no reason to expand.

Big XII should have taken TCU, West Virginia, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis to get to Big 14. They would have forced ACC to take UConn leaving no Big East football

(01-14-2019 09:12 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Big XII should have taken TCU, West Virginia, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis to get to Big 14.

Good luck making the money work without the tv partners killing your next tv deal

Quote: They would have forced ACC to take UConn leaving no Big East football

This wouldn’t have affected the ACC at all except forcing them to add someone other than UL. I also don’t get why killing the Big East is some goal. The goal is to raise your boat, not necessarily sink others.

(01-14-2019 09:12 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  Big XII should have taken TCU, West Virginia, Houston, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Memphis to get to Big 14. They would have forced ACC to take UConn leaving no Big East football

The counter to that, of course, is the ACC should have taken SU, Pitt, WVU, and Louisville back in September of 2011 and then when Maryland bolted taken either Cincy or UConn. Would have left the B12 with TCU and who?

Cheers,
Neil