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Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
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XLance Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-09-2019 09:19 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 07:21 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2019 07:56 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-06-2019 12:42 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  after all these years I still like to talk about the split. Not sure why. IMO the FB BE schools were never united. Shame that they couldn't have stuck together for the good of the whole.

It's called the Bigger Fish eats the Littler Fish. It's no different than Butler not caring about the "good of the whole" when they left the Horizon League for the Atlantic 10 and then a year after that, leaving the Atlantic 10 for the Big East.

Same with Xavier leaving the Atlantic 10 for the Big East and Creighton leaving the Missouri Valley for the Big East. And if tomorrow the ACC decided that they were good at 14 for football and for purposes of its Network thought going a partial hybrid would help generate more subscribers and higher advertising rates by offering membership to Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's I believe after much soul-searching those Big East schools would bite.

Just be grateful that there are too many northerners in the conference now so rest assure THAT isn't going to happen. 03-lmfao

Cheers,
Neil

I get that. I just feel its a little different in cases like Butler, Xavier and Creighton. They all left to be associated with schools, as a group, were a step above in athletic history/ tradition. I think that BE FB was under rated and more on par with the ACC programs. This was also an opportunity to keep or strengthen a Northeastern based all sport league. IMO that BE FB league could have become a force.More of a major player as all sport than the MVC, and A10 with Creighton, Xavier and Butler could have hoped to be at their respective level.

in short the MVC would still be the MVC had Creighton stayed. Same with A10. The "AAC" would be P5 if that old BE lineup was intact. Who knows maybe BE FB would have become the hunter and not the hunted.

But what you describe here is a mixture of JoePa's and Dave Gavitt's dream from the 80s. Whereas I see it as Miami, BC, SU, Pitt, and VT truly preferring Swofford's announced 2003 vision of an East Coast Boston to Miami version of the PAC on steroids and WVU preferring the SEC.

Now that ACC vision is missing 1 and 3/8ths pieces and had to exchange Maryland with Louisville, but the path to conference realignment always has its dead ends, road blocks and tricky curves to navigate through. 03-wink

Ultimately, I look at it as what is meant to be will be.

But watching the St. John's/Georgetown game a few days ago and the Nova/St. John's game last night did bring back that old Big East nostalgia in me.

Cheers,
Neil

Well Neil, we know the 3/8ths piece. I know you prefer West Virginia as the 1, but the legitimate question at this point is Notre Dame willing to accept West Virginia? And if not?
Also, I get the feeling that the Mountaineers are still carrying the torch for the SEC.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 06:08 AM by XLance.)
01-10-2019 06:07 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 06:07 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-09-2019 09:19 AM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-08-2019 07:21 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  
(01-06-2019 07:56 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-06-2019 12:42 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  after all these years I still like to talk about the split. Not sure why. IMO the FB BE schools were never united. Shame that they couldn't have stuck together for the good of the whole.

It's called the Bigger Fish eats the Littler Fish. It's no different than Butler not caring about the "good of the whole" when they left the Horizon League for the Atlantic 10 and then a year after that, leaving the Atlantic 10 for the Big East.

Same with Xavier leaving the Atlantic 10 for the Big East and Creighton leaving the Missouri Valley for the Big East. And if tomorrow the ACC decided that they were good at 14 for football and for purposes of its Network thought going a partial hybrid would help generate more subscribers and higher advertising rates by offering membership to Georgetown, Villanova and St. John's I believe after much soul-searching those Big East schools would bite.

Just be grateful that there are too many northerners in the conference now so rest assure THAT isn't going to happen. 03-lmfao

Cheers,
Neil

I get that. I just feel its a little different in cases like Butler, Xavier and Creighton. They all left to be associated with schools, as a group, were a step above in athletic history/ tradition. I think that BE FB was under rated and more on par with the ACC programs. This was also an opportunity to keep or strengthen a Northeastern based all sport league. IMO that BE FB league could have become a force.More of a major player as all sport than the MVC, and A10 with Creighton, Xavier and Butler could have hoped to be at their respective level.

in short the MVC would still be the MVC had Creighton stayed. Same with A10. The "AAC" would be P5 if that old BE lineup was intact. Who knows maybe BE FB would have become the hunter and not the hunted.

But what you describe here is a mixture of JoePa's and Dave Gavitt's dream from the 80s. Whereas I see it as Miami, BC, SU, Pitt, and VT truly preferring Swofford's announced 2003 vision of an East Coast Boston to Miami version of the PAC on steroids and WVU preferring the SEC.

Now that ACC vision is missing 1 and 3/8ths pieces and had to exchange Maryland with Louisville, but the path to conference realignment always has its dead ends, road blocks and tricky curves to navigate through. 03-wink

Ultimately, I look at it as what is meant to be will be.

But watching the St. John's/Georgetown game a few days ago and the Nova/St. John's game last night did bring back that old Big East nostalgia in me.

Cheers,
Neil

Well Neil, we know the 3/8ths piece. I know you prefer West Virginia as the 1, but the legitimate question at this point is Notre Dame willing to accept West Virginia? And if not?
Also, I get the feeling that the Mountaineers are still carrying the torch for the SEC.

Hail X-Lance!

You are correct that of the "realistic" candidates I prefer the Eers. And 90% of the time the "realistic" qualifier is specifically used by me when I discuss future ACC expansion efforts.

But, no, WVU is not the "1" of the missing "1 and 3/8ths pieces". The clue to the one can be found in another part of my post above - Swofford's announced 2003 vision of an East Coast Boston to Miami version of the PAC on steroids. Of course any one who has read any of my posts regarding ACC expansion back in 2003 already knows who both the "1 and 3/8ths pieces are". 03-wink

And also, again for those who have read my posts on future ACC expansion, my assessment of the chances of the ACC getting the missing "1 and 3/8ths pieces" was addressed with this statement above - the path to conference realignment always has its dead ends, road blocks and tricky curves to navigate through. I see the missing "1 and 3/8ths pieces" as the dead ends and that the conference, if it chooses to expand, should look elsewhere, which of course means not truly caring what ND wants - which I am sure TerryD will chime in at one point and remind us that ND doesn't care because they have no intention of being a full member of the conference in football. And he is correct, which I finally conceded to this at least three years ago.

Cheers,
Neil
01-10-2019 11:02 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.
01-10-2019 11:46 AM
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Post: #44
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 11:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.

Navy!
01-10-2019 11:56 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 11:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.

The "1" would never have needed ND's "blessing". It's a program that with ND "full" would truly make the ACC an East Coast version of the PAC on steroids. But like ND "full", I consider a dead end. But they did try for the "1" again back in 2011/2012. 03-wink

And with ND "full" and the "1" off the table, the new fool's gold is Texas with an ND type deal.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 12:31 PM by OrangeDude.)
01-10-2019 12:31 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 11:56 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.

Navy!

True. If ND wanted in "full", which they don't, Navy likely would have the Irish's stamp of approval for #16. Which is why I am for expansion to 15 with the championship rule change, and stopping. Again, WVU being the best of the "realistic" candidates for #15.

Cheers,
Neil
01-10-2019 12:34 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
It was Penn State.

If the original plan: the ACC 9 plus Boston College, Syracuse and Miami had gone though as planned, the possibility of Penn State might have truly been realistic.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 04:49 PM by XLance.)
01-10-2019 04:34 PM
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Post: #48
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 04:34 PM)XLance Wrote:  It was Penn State.

Yep. An ACC comprised of full members FSU, ND, PSU, Miami, Clemson, and VT, with GT, Pitt, SU, MD, UNC, UVA, NCST, BC, Duke, and Wake for support - most definitely the East Coast version of the PAC on super duper steroids.

Wasn't meant to be. But that's life in the conference realignment game. You win some and you lose some.

Cheers,
Neil
01-10-2019 04:48 PM
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Post: #49
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 12:34 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:56 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.

Navy!

True. If ND wanted in "full", which they don't, Navy likely would have the Irish's stamp of approval for #16. Which is why I am for expansion to 15 with the championship rule change, and stopping. Again, WVU being the best of the "realistic" candidates for #15.

Cheers,
Neil

WVU is the highest profile team can the old "Southern Conference" teams accept them?
01-10-2019 06:57 PM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 06:57 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:34 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:56 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.

Navy!

True. If ND wanted in "full", which they don't, Navy likely would have the Irish's stamp of approval for #16. Which is why I am for expansion to 15 with the championship rule change, and stopping. Again, WVU being the best of the "realistic" candidates for #15.

Cheers,
Neil

WVU is the highest profile team can the old "Southern Conference" teams accept them?

If it even gets to that stage of expanding by 1 with a rules change for conference championship games, I think a lot will depend on what FSU and Clemson want at that time. So, with that assumption, I suppose it will depend upon how the football schools feel about the progress made by the likes of Miami, VT, UL, GT, NCST, Pitt, SU, UNC, and UVA over the next 4-5 years.

Each of them is definitely trying to improve, but ultimately at least two have to get year-in and year-out consistently above average to high level, with 3-4 of the others ranging from slightly above average to occasionally high level for support.

If that comes about there probably will be no need to expand and the league might stay as is, or it might take a flyer on Cincy for ACCN purposes. If it doesn't happen, I could see the football schools pushing for another football focused school like WVU like they pushed for Louisville over UConn.

Cheers,
Neil
01-10-2019 08:51 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
Like we have belabored before, the football-centric teams need to play each other more often for strength of schedule, TV ratings, and gate revenue. This happens by either eliminating divisions or switching Virginia Tech to the Atlantic for Syracuse (Kaplony's idea).

The conference is becoming all-around stronger though. While FSU and Louisville fell off the football map last season, Syracuse, Pitt, and BC all performed pretty well. In basketball, FSU and Virginia Tech are top 25!

Anyway, I don't see any need to add more teams to a pot where the current teams don't play each other as often as everyone would like.
(This post was last modified: 01-10-2019 09:36 PM by esayem.)
01-10-2019 09:35 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 06:57 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:34 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:56 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.

Navy!

True. If ND wanted in "full", which they don't, Navy likely would have the Irish's stamp of approval for #16. Which is why I am for expansion to 15 with the championship rule change, and stopping. Again, WVU being the best of the "realistic" candidates for #15.

Cheers,
Neil

WVU is the highest profile team can the old "Southern Conference" teams accept them?


Doubtful.
01-10-2019 09:49 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 08:51 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 06:57 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:34 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:56 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:46 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Hypothetically speaking, if WVU isn't the "1" in the aforementioned equation, who out there would have the blessing of the Irish to fill that spot? It's not like they have years of history with Cincy, UConn, etc.

Navy!

True. If ND wanted in "full", which they don't, Navy likely would have the Irish's stamp of approval for #16. Which is why I am for expansion to 15 with the championship rule change, and stopping. Again, WVU being the best of the "realistic" candidates for #15.

Cheers,
Neil

WVU is the highest profile team can the old "Southern Conference" teams accept them?

If it even gets to that stage of expanding by 1 with a rules change for conference championship games, I think a lot will depend on what FSU and Clemson want at that time. So, with that assumption, I suppose it will depend upon how the football schools feel about the progress made by the likes of Miami, VT, UL, GT, NCST, Pitt, SU, UNC, and UVA over the next 4-5 years.

Each of them is definitely trying to improve, but ultimately at least two have to get year-in and year-out consistently above average to high level, with 3-4 of the others ranging from slightly above average to occasionally high level for support.

If that comes about there probably will be no need to expand and the league might stay as is, or it might take a flyer on Cincy for ACCN purposes. If it doesn't happen, I could see the football schools pushing for another football focused school like WVU like they pushed for Louisville over UConn.

Cheers,
Neil

Cincinnati like West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again, and with a much bigger market.
The Penn State ship has already sailed.
01-10-2019 10:09 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 10:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 08:51 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 06:57 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:34 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:56 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  Navy!

True. If ND wanted in "full", which they don't, Navy likely would have the Irish's stamp of approval for #16. Which is why I am for expansion to 15 with the championship rule change, and stopping. Again, WVU being the best of the "realistic" candidates for #15.

Cheers,
Neil

WVU is the highest profile team can the old "Southern Conference" teams accept them?

If it even gets to that stage of expanding by 1 with a rules change for conference championship games, I think a lot will depend on what FSU and Clemson want at that time. So, with that assumption, I suppose it will depend upon how the football schools feel about the progress made by the likes of Miami, VT, UL, GT, NCST, Pitt, SU, UNC, and UVA over the next 4-5 years.

Each of them is definitely trying to improve, but ultimately at least two have to get year-in and year-out consistently above average to high level, with 3-4 of the others ranging from slightly above average to occasionally high level for support.

If that comes about there probably will be no need to expand and the league might stay as is, or it might take a flyer on Cincy for ACCN purposes. If it doesn't happen, I could see the football schools pushing for another football focused school like WVU like they pushed for Louisville over UConn.

Cheers,
Neil

Cincinnati like West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again, and with a much bigger market.
The Penn State ship has already sailed.

If markets are most important than Temple makes more sense than Cincinnati. The fact is, they aren't as important anymore and West Virginia's fanbase dwarfs Cincinnati's.

Regardless, the ACC now has Louisville in place of West Virginia, UConn, and Cincinnati. I believe the ship has sailed on expansion. 03-phew
01-10-2019 11:52 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-10-2019 11:52 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 08:51 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 06:57 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 12:34 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  True. If ND wanted in "full", which they don't, Navy likely would have the Irish's stamp of approval for #16. Which is why I am for expansion to 15 with the championship rule change, and stopping. Again, WVU being the best of the "realistic" candidates for #15.

Cheers,
Neil

WVU is the highest profile team can the old "Southern Conference" teams accept them?

If it even gets to that stage of expanding by 1 with a rules change for conference championship games, I think a lot will depend on what FSU and Clemson want at that time. So, with that assumption, I suppose it will depend upon how the football schools feel about the progress made by the likes of Miami, VT, UL, GT, NCST, Pitt, SU, UNC, and UVA over the next 4-5 years.

Each of them is definitely trying to improve, but ultimately at least two have to get year-in and year-out consistently above average to high level, with 3-4 of the others ranging from slightly above average to occasionally high level for support.

If that comes about there probably will be no need to expand and the league might stay as is, or it might take a flyer on Cincy for ACCN purposes. If it doesn't happen, I could see the football schools pushing for another football focused school like WVU like they pushed for Louisville over UConn.

Cheers,
Neil

Cincinnati like West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again, and with a much bigger market.
The Penn State ship has already sailed.

If markets are most important than Temple makes more sense than Cincinnati. The fact is, they aren't as important anymore and West Virginia's fanbase dwarfs Cincinnati's.

Regardless, the ACC now has Louisville in place of West Virginia, UConn, and Cincinnati. I believe the ship has sailed on expansion. 03-phew

Re-read Neil's post.
I'm not advocating Cincinnati, but if market access for the success of the ACCN is still important for ESPN and the conference, then an Ohio address is more valuable than one in West Virginia. Plus greater Cincinnati is realistically located not only in Ohio but spreads out into Indiana and Kentucky.
01-11-2019 05:32 AM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-11-2019 05:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:52 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 08:51 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 06:57 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  WVU is the highest profile team can the old "Southern Conference" teams accept them?

If it even gets to that stage of expanding by 1 with a rules change for conference championship games, I think a lot will depend on what FSU and Clemson want at that time. So, with that assumption, I suppose it will depend upon how the football schools feel about the progress made by the likes of Miami, VT, UL, GT, NCST, Pitt, SU, UNC, and UVA over the next 4-5 years.

Each of them is definitely trying to improve, but ultimately at least two have to get year-in and year-out consistently above average to high level, with 3-4 of the others ranging from slightly above average to occasionally high level for support.

If that comes about there probably will be no need to expand and the league might stay as is, or it might take a flyer on Cincy for ACCN purposes. If it doesn't happen, I could see the football schools pushing for another football focused school like WVU like they pushed for Louisville over UConn.

Cheers,
Neil

Cincinnati like West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again, and with a much bigger market.
The Penn State ship has already sailed.

If markets are most important than Temple makes more sense than Cincinnati. The fact is, they aren't as important anymore and West Virginia's fanbase dwarfs Cincinnati's.

Regardless, the ACC now has Louisville in place of West Virginia, UConn, and Cincinnati. I believe the ship has sailed on expansion. 03-phew

Re-read Neil's post.
I'm not advocating Cincinnati, but if market access for the success of the ACCN is still important for ESPN and the conference, then an Ohio address is more valuable than one in West Virginia. Plus greater Cincinnati is realistically located not only in Ohio but spreads out into Indiana and Kentucky.

I understand you aren’t advocating. The Philly market is far superior though, and it spreads into Delaware, Jersey, and Maryland! Temple>Cincinnati.
01-11-2019 07:42 AM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-11-2019 07:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 05:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:52 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 08:51 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  If it even gets to that stage of expanding by 1 with a rules change for conference championship games, I think a lot will depend on what FSU and Clemson want at that time. So, with that assumption, I suppose it will depend upon how the football schools feel about the progress made by the likes of Miami, VT, UL, GT, NCST, Pitt, SU, UNC, and UVA over the next 4-5 years.

Each of them is definitely trying to improve, but ultimately at least two have to get year-in and year-out consistently above average to high level, with 3-4 of the others ranging from slightly above average to occasionally high level for support.

If that comes about there probably will be no need to expand and the league might stay as is, or it might take a flyer on Cincy for ACCN purposes. If it doesn't happen, I could see the football schools pushing for another football focused school like WVU like they pushed for Louisville over UConn.

Cheers,
Neil

Cincinnati like West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again, and with a much bigger market.
The Penn State ship has already sailed.

If markets are most important than Temple makes more sense than Cincinnati. The fact is, they aren't as important anymore and West Virginia's fanbase dwarfs Cincinnati's.

Regardless, the ACC now has Louisville in place of West Virginia, UConn, and Cincinnati. I believe the ship has sailed on expansion. 03-phew

Re-read Neil's post.
I'm not advocating Cincinnati, but if market access for the success of the ACCN is still important for ESPN and the conference, then an Ohio address is more valuable than one in West Virginia. Plus greater Cincinnati is realistically located not only in Ohio but spreads out into Indiana and Kentucky.

I understand you aren’t advocating. The Philly market is far superior though, and it spreads into Delaware, Jersey, and Maryland! Temple>Cincinnati.

The Philly/New York market is fool's gold for college football.
01-11-2019 08:07 AM
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Post: #58
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-11-2019 07:42 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-11-2019 05:32 AM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 11:52 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 10:09 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(01-10-2019 08:51 PM)OrangeDude Wrote:  If it even gets to that stage of expanding by 1 with a rules change for conference championship games, I think a lot will depend on what FSU and Clemson want at that time. So, with that assumption, I suppose it will depend upon how the football schools feel about the progress made by the likes of Miami, VT, UL, GT, NCST, Pitt, SU, UNC, and UVA over the next 4-5 years.

Each of them is definitely trying to improve, but ultimately at least two have to get year-in and year-out consistently above average to high level, with 3-4 of the others ranging from slightly above average to occasionally high level for support.

If that comes about there probably will be no need to expand and the league might stay as is, or it might take a flyer on Cincy for ACCN purposes. If it doesn't happen, I could see the football schools pushing for another football focused school like WVU like they pushed for Louisville over UConn.

Cheers,
Neil

Cincinnati like West Virginia would make the ACC contiguous again, and with a much bigger market.
The Penn State ship has already sailed.

If markets are most important than Temple makes more sense than Cincinnati. The fact is, they aren't as important anymore and West Virginia's fanbase dwarfs Cincinnati's.

Regardless, the ACC now has Louisville in place of West Virginia, UConn, and Cincinnati. I believe the ship has sailed on expansion. 03-phew

Re-read Neil's post.
I'm not advocating Cincinnati, but if market access for the success of the ACCN is still important for ESPN and the conference, then an Ohio address is more valuable than one in West Virginia. Plus greater Cincinnati is realistically located not only in Ohio but spreads out into Indiana and Kentucky.

I understand you aren’t advocating. The Philly market is far superior though, and it spreads into Delaware, Jersey, and Maryland! Temple>Cincinnati.

Have fun watching your Tar Heels play in front of 10,000 people in a 70,000 seat NFL stadium (ditto for Rice and Tulane whom I have seen you champion as well).
01-11-2019 09:21 AM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
When considering a #16, assuming that FSU and Miami say NIMBY to a U_F, if you are considering Temple, Cincy, UConn, and WVU in terms of markets Temple is the no brainer. But it's become evident that it's no longer a market driven industry but a content based one. Temple gets you a tiny sliver of the biggest market but does little in the way of producing high demand on-field/court content.

WVU is head and shoulders the best candidate in terms of content and demand. The question is will historic and academic prejudices keep them barred in favor of someone with a weaker resume. At this point they've taken in Louisville so it's not like they haven't tread this slope before. WVU also has history with all of those ex-BE schools and would restore a lot of old and desirable match ups notably with Pitt and VT but also with Cuse, L'ville, and Miami as well.
01-11-2019 09:47 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Did Oliver Luck know WVU was going into the Big 12 in December 2010?
(01-11-2019 09:47 AM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  When considering a #16, assuming that FSU and Miami say NIMBY to a U_F, if you are considering Temple, Cincy, UConn, and WVU in terms of markets Temple is the no brainer. But it's become evident that it's no longer a market driven industry but a content based one. Temple gets you a tiny sliver of the biggest market but does little in the way of producing high demand on-field/court content.

WVU is head and shoulders the best candidate in terms of content and demand. The question is will historic and academic prejudices keep them barred in favor of someone with a weaker resume. At this point they've taken in Louisville so it's not like they haven't tread this slope before. WVU also has history with all of those ex-BE schools and would restore a lot of old and desirable match ups notably with Pitt and VT but also with Cuse, L'ville, and Miami as well.

ding, ding, ding. Correct answer.

For the sake of content driven football, WVU is head and shoulders above all of the "realistic" candidates for an East Coast conference and that includes the two U_F schools. But taking a flyer on UCF is an intriguing option as well, but would need BOTH Miami and FSU to champion which isn't very likely.

Cheers,
Neil
01-11-2019 09:58 AM
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