(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

UFO School motto, "We want to believe!"

(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

Meh- If the Big 12 went to them and said they were interested, but the only thing holding them back was a name change it would been done a couple years ago.

Since the other thread was closed out prematurely....

LSU having a weak offense is not an excuse for only winning by 8.

(01-02-2019 01:31 PM)JRsec Wrote:  I think after Alston the P5 will shrink, not expand. If Alston doesn't win I still think the P5 will eventually shrink and not expand. Alston would draw the line of upper tier inclusion with the ability and/or desire to pay players and remain profitable. If Alston loses shrinking attendance will impair G5 hopefuls and consolidation for a better structure will likely lead to a reduced P5. Declining national interest and economic pressures will contribute.

P5 should shrink to 25/30 teams and have some combination of 6 by 5 or 8 by 4. Play each division member twice and then rotate between the rest of the divisions. Division winners go to a bracketed playoffs.

Does that throw the "traditions" out the window? Mostly yes - sure. However, the pageantry was all about collegiality and amateurism. FBS level CFB hasn't been an amateur sport in ages, so why keep the facade?

(01-02-2019 01:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

Meh- If the Big 12 went to them and said they were interested, but the only thing holding them back was a name change it would been done a couple years ago.

Texas is not interested in being associated with directional schools. Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get.

Personally, I think UCF is ready to move to the next level. So are Houston and Cincinnati but unlike UCF those two have been there before (SWC and Big East).

(01-02-2019 02:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the other thread was closed out prematurely....

LSU having a weak offense is not an excuse for only winning by 8.

Some strong plays and good breaks went UCF's way.

The stats showed a murder show.

(01-02-2019 02:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

Meh- If the Big 12 went to them and said they were interested, but the only thing holding them back was a name change it would been done a couple years ago.

Texas is not interested in being associated with directional schools. Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get.

Personally, I think UCF is ready to move to the next level. So are Houston and Cincinnati but unlike UCF those two have been there before (SWC and Big East).

It's not a popular position but USF in spite of a lower sports profile will be accepted in the P5 quicker than UCF will be. They are increasing their research spending, are building an on campus stadium. I agree that UCF has supplanted them athletically, but USF is growing in the very things that P conferences examine when making these decisions. Now saying that doesn't mean that USF is close to getting a P5 bid because they aren't. But it is to say that between the two schools I see USF of being a higher profile potential candidate.

(01-02-2019 10:14 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 09:55 AM)Chappy Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 09:51 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  There was a silver lining to UCF losing the Fiesta Bowl to LSU yesterday.

That is by losing the game they were not able to claim a second mythical championship in 2018, a claim that if they tried this year they would look very dubious in making since they will not be the only undefeated team (it will be either Alabama or Clemson) this season if they had won.

I don't think UCF would have claimed a national championship this year had they won yesterday. First of all, they would not be the only undefeated team. Secondly, they would not finish the season as the #1 team in the Colley Matrix.

It gives the 2017 NC claim more mystique that is for sure which is my point on this.

The 2017 NC claim has no mystique. It was regarded as a joke claim before yesterday and now even moreso.

Everyone regards Alabama as the 17 champs, because they are.

(01-02-2019 02:13 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 02:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

Meh- If the Big 12 went to them and said they were interested, but the only thing holding them back was a name change it would been done a couple years ago.

Texas is not interested in being associated with directional schools. Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get.

Personally, I think UCF is ready to move to the next level. So are Houston and Cincinnati but unlike UCF those two have been there before (SWC and Big East).

It's not a popular position but USF in spite of a lower sports profile will be accepted in the P5 quicker than UCF will be. They are increasing their research spending, are building an on campus stadium. I agree that UCF has supplanted them athletically, but USF is growing in the very things that P conferences examine when making these decisions. Now saying that doesn't mean that USF is close to getting a P5 bid because they aren't. But it is to say that between the two schools I see USF of being a higher profile potential candidate.

USF is not building an on campus stadium. So the only thing they have going for them is research dollars.

(01-02-2019 02:13 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 02:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the other thread was closed out prematurely....

LSU having a weak offense is not an excuse for only winning by 8.

Some strong plays and good breaks went UCF's way.

The stats showed a murder show.

The UCF guy dropped an easy TD and UCF's coach for some odd reason didn't take the FG but decided to go for it. That's 10 points right there.

(01-02-2019 02:24 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 02:13 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 02:01 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Since the other thread was closed out prematurely....

LSU having a weak offense is not an excuse for only winning by 8.

Some strong plays and good breaks went UCF's way.

The stats showed a murder show.

The UCF guy dropped an easy TD and UCF's coach for some odd reason didn't take the FG but decided to go for it. That's 10 points right there.

I'm not arguing that with you, but that's how the game works.

There is a big disconnect in the stats in that game and the score.

The stats say UCF got the absolute hell beat out of them. The score doesn't. That's because all the breaks that could go UCF's way did. I mean, at one point they were up 14 points.

They were beaten by a vastly superior team, even with all the breaks they got.

That doesn't take away from the season they had. They won a conference championship, got some great exposure, and played in a major bowl game. There is no taking anything from that. Claiming they are more than they are does detract from that though.

UCF was up 14 after LSU threw a pick. That is not a break, that's crappy play by LSU.

Also, you can move the ball all you want between the 20s. It means nothing.

(01-02-2019 02:06 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:48 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 01:40 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 11:56 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  “Tradition” isn’t really the correct term. In college football, “tradition” means having played football at the highest levels for decades or even 100-plus years, while the UCF program at the FBS level isn’t even 25 years old yet. To the extent that there are AAC schools with “tradition”, they’re schools like Navy, Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, SMU and, yes, Tulane. (FWIW, I think that this is an underrated factor in realignment. UConn probably isn’t in a P5 conference today because their FBS program is simply too young. Years played at the lower FCS or old Division I-AA levels are irrelevant. P5 conferences *want* old grainy black-and-white photos of football teams playing at the top level from 50 to 100 years ago.) If you want to argue that UCF has had a lot of recent success in a great fast-growing TV market and recruiting area that could be attractive to the Big 12, then that’s all true. The “tradition” part can’t really be accelerated, though - the only thing that builds tradition is the passage of time.

I think their directional name will keep them out of the P5.

If their name was Florida Tech, even the University of Florida at Orlando (UFO), their chances would be greater than what they are now.

Meh- If the Big 12 went to them and said they were interested, but the only thing holding them back was a name change it would been done a couple years ago.

Texas is not interested in being associated with directional schools. Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get.

Personally, I think UCF is ready to move to the next level. So are Houston and Cincinnati but unlike UCF those two have been there before (SWC and Big East).

That's my point: UCF would have already changed their name if they n new the name was the only thing holding them back.

Apparently Texas doesn't like "city" schools either- so Cincinnati and Houston would have made changes as well if this was the sticking point.

(01-02-2019 02:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  UCF was up 14 after LSU threw a pick. That is not a break, that's crappy play by LSU.

Also, you can move the ball all you want between the 20s. It means nothing.

You’re being purposely obtuse.

If there is movement as we get closer to the TV deals expiring, and there is movement to other conferences by some, UCF is certainly a front runner replacement candidate.

Debating whether UCF has enough 'tradition' to be 'P5' is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. It's effectively unknowable, especially since there are so many moving pieces with respect to conference realignment in general and the criteria that are used for realignment purposes. If it were exclusively tradition, Army and Navy both have more football tradition than many of the 'P5' schools, as do Yale and Harvard.

Personally, I think the lasting legacy of UCF's spectacular 2 year run will be that it opened the door to having legitimate discussions about modifying the 4 team playoff before it even reached the midway point in the first contract, resulting in people being willing to go on the record saying that they'd be open to discussing expanding it and, in several cases, pointing to UCF's exclusion as one of the injustices.

USFFan

Not sure about tradition but from a jealous stand point I can definitely say they have the needed potential. If the P5's blew up their leagues and picked members all over again how much dead weight at the bottom riding the coat tails of the top 4-6 teams of every P5 would even get an invite ? If you sprinkled magic pixy dust and put UCF in a P5 with the money they all receive from tv revenue they would quickly grow to be a very competitive members of most P5's.
It is hard to build a tradition when you trail the financial game by $50 million to the power houses in College Football. College Football has turned into a multi billion dollar entertainment complex where 10-15 teams in the entire nation are now relevant with the playoffs and the rest are just hoping for a decent season and a decent bowl game. The astronomical money has separated the haves from the have nots. If you do not have a $80 million to $100 million Football Complex with a Disney World like attractions to lure teenage super stars then you are not going to compete for the Playoffs. The Top 10-15 ranked Facilities in the Country are fairly closely aligned with the Top 10-15 ranked recruiting classes. The Top 10-15 ranked recruiting classes tend to be the same programs over and over jockeying slightly for the top positions. If you are consistently pulling in classes ranked 18-25 you are a really good Football program but withthe exception of a miracle season you are not going to the playoffs.
UCF has done what few other teams in the country have done going to a BCS/Access Bowl 3 times in the last 5 years. That is pretty damn strong tradition right there. My school has never been to one BCS/Access Bowl and the only Football team in our state of North Carolina to do so is Wake Forest. With all the tradition UNC, NCST and Duke have, none of them have achieved what UCF has achieved on the Football field

Quote:Does UCF have enough tradition now to be P5?

No

Two years does not a tradition make.


Boise State hasn't had less than an 8 win season this century, has multiple major bowl wins and multiple major P5 game wins and they don;t have the tradition yet either.

(01-02-2019 02:41 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(01-02-2019 02:32 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  UCF was up 14 after LSU threw a pick. That is not a break, that's crappy play by LSU.

Also, you can move the ball all you want between the 20s. It means nothing.

You’re being purposely obtuse.

No, I am not.

Even if UCF had won, the injury excuse - and I have to add, the excuse of having players ejected for targeting - would have been the reason. And even if LSU didn't have any players missing, the excuse then would have been that they weren't motivated to play against UCF.

Rationalizations all over the place. If UCF's talent wasn't that close they wouldn't have won LAST year. Oh that's right, the P5 team wasn't motivated. Never mind.

(01-02-2019 02:45 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  If there is movement as we get closer to the TV deals expiring, and there is movement to other conferences by some, UCF is certainly a front runner replacement candidate.

The only conference that could have an opening, and even that conference isn't likely to, would be the Big 12 should Texas, Oklahoma, and Kansas leave. If that happened then absolutely UCF would be a high on the list of replacements along with USF, Cincinnati, Houston, and a couple of more.

The question remains then whether that conference sans Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas would remain a P conference? Odds are they would be a better paid conference than the AAC, but they very likely would not be viewed as a Power conference.

Right now outside of that scenario there simply aren't realistic expansion opportunities for the G5.