(02-19-2020 12:18 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I'm sorry, but there is a difference between what Louisville was doing and what other programs are doing. Yes, they got busted paying for a recruit (Bruce Bowen), but his assistant was also paying for prostitutes for recruits on their visits to Louisville. That "next level service" is something I could not condone, especially at JMU. There aren't a lot of on court positives from the Lou Rowe era, but off the court, this team has been clean as a whistle. Gone are the days when players were running around campus drunk, getting into fights with one another, and getting suspended every other game. We also don't have the revolving door of talent that we used to have (yes we lost some depth guys, but not the core guys).

Beyond those concerns, I am not sure what version of Pitino we would get. Would we get the uber-successful coach, or would we be getting a coach that just wants to be able to go out on his terms? Would he care enough to turn this program around or would he half-ass it? I'd rather bring in a guy with something to prove, not something to clean up.

Be honest, you're not really sorry.

(02-19-2020 01:28 PM)Bawlmer Duke Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:35 AM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 11:31 AM)olddawg Wrote:  Wow- that record makes Sherm's record at Indiana State (29-51) look great.

Pretty sure Sherm had all his scholarships, while Solomon only had 10 for three of his four years. Not saying I want Solomon. I have been staunch in my support for Mike Lonergan as a top tier candidate, but just want to give a fuller picture of what Solomon had to deal with at St Bonnie.

There is a reason why he is sweeping the floors at gyms in PG County and coaching youth teams. JMU would do everyone a good thing and not go looking for him.

We can't afford to take a chance on him. One of the big problems that the admin has done too many times is to overlook a coach's W/L record and I think that's one of the reason's we've been in the mess we are in. I know he was in a terrible situation at St Bonnie, but there's nothing about that record that translates to success at JMU. It's a risk we cannot take.
We need a coach that has won a lot. It doesn't matter the division as long as he was head coach and won consistently.
Taking a chance on a guy with a head coach record hovering .500 or under is a recipe for disaster (no matter the situation the guy was in).
No excuses.

I think Mike Lonergan is a good coach who got caught up in, and lost, a tug of war with the AD at GWU. There is a story online (yes, it is by Deadspin, so take that with as much salt as you need) that explains the issue started over how much access the AD should have had to the basketball team (including getting involved in an argument between a player and his gf), and escalated when the AD has inviting players to his house for dinners and getting drunk on official team trips, like the one they took to Italy. No player has come out and put his name on the anonymous reports of abuse; several of his players went on the record to say they were BS. He seems like a coach that is tough, and that might rub some guys the wrong way. Hopefully he has taken these past few years as a that he was not 100% blameless in what happened at GWU and done some introspection. I would like to see him brought in for an interview and asked these and other very pointed questions related to his demeanor, especially since he would be a basketball coach at a football school. How will he adjust to that after being the main draw on campus at Vermont and GW?

Anyway, that's just one dumb fan's opinion. I want a guy that can win, and Lonergan has proven that he can win in his previous stops, but so have other coaches.

(02-19-2020 03:08 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I think Mike Lonergan is a good coach who got caught up in, and lost, a tug of war with the AD at GWU. There is a story online (yes, it is by Deadspin, so take that with as much salt as you need) that explains the issue started over how much access the AD should have had to the basketball team (including getting involved in an argument between a player and his gf), and escalated when the AD has inviting players to his house for dinners and getting drunk on official team trips, like the one they took to Italy. No player has come out and put his name on the anonymous reports of abuse; several of his players went on the record to say they were BS. He seems like a coach that is tough, and that might rub some guys the wrong way. Hopefully he has taken these past few years as a that he was not 100% blameless in what happened at GWU and done some introspection. I would like to see him brought in for an interview and asked these and other very pointed questions related to his demeanor, especially since he would be a basketball coach at a football school. How will he adjust to that after being the main draw on campus at Vermont and GW?

Anyway, that's just one dumb fan's opinion. I want a guy that can win, and Lonergan has proven that he can win in his previous stops, but so have other coaches.

Why are we talking about Lonergan? I don't see where he has coached or played for us?

(02-19-2020 03:17 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:08 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I think Mike Lonergan is a good coach who got caught up in, and lost, a tug of war with the AD at GWU. There is a story online (yes, it is by Deadspin, so take that with as much salt as you need) that explains the issue started over how much access the AD should have had to the basketball team (including getting involved in an argument between a player and his gf), and escalated when the AD has inviting players to his house for dinners and getting drunk on official team trips, like the one they took to Italy. No player has come out and put his name on the anonymous reports of abuse; several of his players went on the record to say they were BS. He seems like a coach that is tough, and that might rub some guys the wrong way. Hopefully he has taken these past few years as a that he was not 100% blameless in what happened at GWU and done some introspection. I would like to see him brought in for an interview and asked these and other very pointed questions related to his demeanor, especially since he would be a basketball coach at a football school. How will he adjust to that after being the main draw on campus at Vermont and GW?

Anyway, that's just one dumb fan's opinion. I want a guy that can win, and Lonergan has proven that he can win in his previous stops, but so have other coaches.

Why are we talking about Lonergan? I don't see where he has coached or played for us?

No, but the connections between Maryland and JMU MBB are strong. For one thing we love taking each other's discarded coaches (Lefty and Brady obv). Lonergan was an assistant at Maryland before taking the Vermont job. But what coach replaced him on the UMD bench? None other than Chuck Driesell, Lefty's son, who was also an assistant at JMU for several years.

Lonergan gets an interview only if Humpty Hitchens gets to be in the room. Also, Deez and myself request the GW dance team to come with Lonergan if hired, stripper boots and all.

(02-19-2020 03:17 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 03:08 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  I think Mike Lonergan is a good coach who got caught up in, and lost, a tug of war with the AD at GWU. There is a story online (yes, it is by Deadspin, so take that with as much salt as you need) that explains the issue started over how much access the AD should have had to the basketball team (including getting involved in an argument between a player and his gf), and escalated when the AD has inviting players to his house for dinners and getting drunk on official team trips, like the one they took to Italy. No player has come out and put his name on the anonymous reports of abuse; several of his players went on the record to say they were BS. He seems like a coach that is tough, and that might rub some guys the wrong way. Hopefully he has taken these past few years as a that he was not 100% blameless in what happened at GWU and done some introspection. I would like to see him brought in for an interview and asked these and other very pointed questions related to his demeanor, especially since he would be a basketball coach at a football school. How will he adjust to that after being the main draw on campus at Vermont and GW?

Anyway, that's just one dumb fan's opinion. I want a guy that can win, and Lonergan has proven that he can win in his previous stops, but so have other coaches.

Why are we talking about Lonergan? I don't see where he has coached or played for us?

Talk about being desperate. The guy is in his mid 50's, Has no NCAAT experience and didn't do much in the A10. He had a revolving door with players, 13 transferred in 5 years. There's a reason GW always brought in guys from overseas. Seeing him on the sidelines many times, why would any quality student/athlete want to play for him.

Trying to get a proven coach is great but no way would I ever want a coach with proven baggage.

I enjoy reading all the back and forth on this thread, and while pie-in-the-sky “big” names with baggage are fun to debate (and they would pump energy back into a dead program) I’ve got my hopes/prayers and eye on one name: Steve Forbes at ETSU.

I really think JMU might have a shot at Forbes IF JMU opens up the pocket book. Forbes may well be the target of a power conference team looking for a new HC, and Forbes may well be thinking that way too as he’s earned that kind of opportunity. Forbes has the coaching pedigree, the experience as a winning HC (and it’s a substantial W-L record), and he’s in his mid 50s...in essence he’s the basketball equivalent of Coach C. I believe Forbes is a realistic possibility, and could return JMU and the new arena into a real destination for top-notch MBB.

(02-19-2020 05:52 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  I enjoy reading all the back and forth on this thread, and while pie-in-the-sky “big” names with baggage are fun to debate (and they would pump energy back into a dead program) I’ve got my hopes/prayers and eye on one name: Steve Forbes at ETSU.

I really think JMU might have a shot at Forbes IF JMU opens up the pocket book. Forbes may well be the target of a power conference team looking for a new HC, and Forbes may well be thinking that way too as he’s earned that kind of opportunity. Forbes has the coaching pedigree, the experience as a winning HC (and it’s a substantial W-L record), and he’s in his mid 50s...in essence he’s the basketball equivalent of Coach C. I believe Forbes is a realistic possibility, and could return JMU and the new arena into a real destination for top-notch MBB.

This is absolutely the kind of guy we need to go after. He's shown that he can win as a head coach and win consistently. I would fully support a guy like this.

The problem with Forbes is reputation related - its why he hasn’t gotten a high major job yet. Was on staff with Billy Gillespie and also on staff and part of the group that was fired at Tennessee. Maybe he’s learned from it and been clean for years now but I feel like with added pressure he may stray and his violations have been recruiting related.

I’d rather Lonergan who’s transgression was not getting along with people or being tough on kids rather than a guy with a sketchy recruiting background as an assistant.

There is no rep problems with Forbes. Just watch his introduction as HC at ETSU. This guy is the real deal. The only problem is he was given an extension and raise to $650k before last season. JMU would have to dig deep to pay this guy.

I’d also like to compare the way LR was introduced as the new HC at JMU compared to the way ETSU introduces Forbes. It goes without saying JB and the entire JMU administration could learn something by watching this video. ETSU did it right.

And one last thought, Ron and Edith Carrier were undergrads at ETSU. I can think of no better way to break the curse of the Lefthander by hiring our next HC away from ETSU.


https://youtu.be/D9suX3XRYKI

(02-15-2020 04:54 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 03:27 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Former Eastern Mennonite mbb coach, Kirby Dean is still resides in Rockingham Co. Maybe JMU can afford this option and bonus, JMU won't have to provide airfare for an interview at Jess' Quick Lunch.

With Jess’s closing on Wednesday, gonna have to do the interview at L&S Diner.

(02-19-2020 06:09 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  The problem with Forbes is reputation related - its why he hasn’t gotten a high major job yet. Was on staff with Billy Gillespie and also on staff and part of the group that was fired at Tennessee. Maybe he’s learned from it and been clean for years now but I feel like with added pressure he may stray and his violations have been recruiting related.

I’d rather Lonergan who’s transgression was not getting along with people or being tough on kids rather than a guy with a sketchy recruiting background as an assistant.

Lonergan have something on you?

Forbes is squeaky clean and wins. Lonergan? Eh...not so much.

(02-19-2020 06:24 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 04:54 PM)olddawg Wrote:  

(02-15-2020 03:27 PM)Purplehazed Wrote:  Former Eastern Mennonite mbb coach, Kirby Dean is still resides in Rockingham Co. Maybe JMU can afford this option and bonus, JMU won't have to provide airfare for an interview at Jess' Quick Lunch.

With Jess’s closing on Wednesday, gonna have to do the interview at L&S Diner.

(02-19-2020 06:09 PM)NJDuke97 Wrote:  The problem with Forbes is reputation related - its why he hasn’t gotten a high major job yet. Was on staff with Billy Gillespie and also on staff and part of the group that was fired at Tennessee. Maybe he’s learned from it and been clean for years now but I feel like with added pressure he may stray and his violations have been recruiting related.

I’d rather Lonergan who’s transgression was not getting along with people or being tough on kids rather than a guy with a sketchy recruiting background as an assistant.

Lonergan have something on you?

Forbes is squeaky clean and wins. Lonergan? Eh...not so much.

Don't get me wrong I'd be thrilled with Forbes but he isn't squeaky clean and I just wanted to point that out. He was part of Bruce Pearl's staff that was fired for infractions.

I'd rather have Bryce Drew than Forbes or Lonergan- he legit appears to have a squeaky clean background.

One thing we can agree on is that the new coach should be a proven winner- someone no matter what level he's coached at who has won in the mid to high 20s multiple times. We can't afford to take a chance- needs to be a sure think hire in terms of wins and losses.

(02-19-2020 11:43 AM)JacksonHall Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 09:30 AM)JMad03 Wrote:  

(02-19-2020 08:18 AM)jmudukes Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 10:51 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  

(02-18-2020 12:21 PM)AssyrianDuke Wrote:  You must have missed the Rick Pitino suggestion a while back.

Nobody suggested Pitino, Longhorn(if I remember correctly) asked what people would think of it if it were possible even though we all know it's not.

We never thought we could get Lefty either. Pitino wants to get back in the US - all he can say is yes or no.

There's a massive difference between Pitino and Lefty. Reputation. Pitino is where he is for a reason. What would be worse than what we have now? A scandal and those things follow Pitino like herpes. Lefty is a legend with no scandals tied to him.
Make no mistake that Pitino would bail on JMU the instant another opportunity presented itself.
I seriously wonder sometimes how much/little some pay attention to JMU. Even if Pitino wanted to go to JMU, the admin wouldn't take him. JMU doesn't mess around with scummy people. That's one of the things I respect about JMU. They don't sell their soul for anyone. They hire quality people with high character. Pitino does NOT fit that category.
There are plenty of better options out there than him.

Lefty got fired after Len Bias died of an overdose. Not saying it was just, but he had baggage.

It is well known that although Bias was enrolled he was not attending classes his last year. Also it is alleged that when Lefty found out that Bias died he ordered some players to go to his apartment and clean up. Also, IIRC, He called a student who had alleged some bad behavior by a player and asked her to not report it.

Regardless of how you feel about these things you can’t say there are no scandals tied to him.

A coach that earns 650K now with a recent extension? Kiss that goodbye! Just keeping it real here folks.

(02-19-2020 07:24 PM)Deez Nuts Wrote:  A coach that earns 650K now with a recent extension? Kiss that goodbye! Just keeping it real here folks.

Correct.

(02-19-2020 06:22 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  There is no rep problems with Forbes. Just watch his introduction as HC at ETSU. This guy is the real deal. The only problem is he was given an extension and raise to $650k before last season. JMU would have to dig deep to pay this guy.

I’d also like to compare the way LR was introduced as the new HC at JMU compared to the way ETSU introduces Forbes. It goes without saying JB and the entire JMU administration could learn something by watching this video. ETSU did it right.

And one last thought, Ron and Edith Carrier were undergrads at ETSU. I can think of no better way to break the curse of the Lefthander by hiring our next HC away from ETSU.


https://youtu.be/D9suX3XRYKI

Yep, this is where we see if JMU raises the white flag and says “we can’t compete with little East Tennessee State.” The pay scale for successful mid major coaches is much higher than some of our fan base (and possibly administration) thinks. Forbes was a good candidate 2 years ago and his resume is only getting stronger.
Forbes is 123-43 at ETSU. 62-6 at a JUCO. 68-28 at a community college. He has never had anything close to a losing season. About as close to a lock as you can get.

Bourne looked like a bozo 4 years ago after firing Brady and then hiring an unqualified coach for a bottom of the barrel salary. Does anyone know if a Rowe’s salary is the lowest in the CAA?

If you are Forbes and East Tennessee has extended you recently and you’ve had success there why would you jump to JMU for the same or slightly higher salary. Jmu isn’t going from 300k to $1m let alone 750k. Forbes next move is to a P5 and a multi million dollar per year deal.

Lonergan and Drew have made bigger money Drew is still under contract on a very lucrative Vandy deal- makes those guys more realistic than a Forbes or Wes Miller type. Those guys aren’t in the game nor are they at their peak but neither was Lefty.

I still believe that Wes Miller is a realistic option. If JMU offers 500-600K, he would be receiving a salary nearly doubling his current 300K. He has a history here obviously, not confirmed but may still have family in the area from what others have said, and he may not have another option in the Mid-Atlantic region that will pay him this kind of money. I don’t think Wake will take him at this time as all rumors have other names as candidates, and they really need a big splash hire.

We could certainly lose out to an A-10 or AAC school, but it may depend on which schools are looking. Would he go to an A-10 or AAC if it is South Florida or someone like St Joe’s instead of JMU? Would be interesting to see. He wants to coach in the ACC at some point but hopefully after a few years here.

I think he has done all he can at UNCG and will be ready for another opportunity. I hope at the least that calls are made to gauge interest and hopefully meet with him.

This all begs the question-

Who has the highest pay for a college basketball coach with these parameters?

1) For a school that plays high level FCS football or higher
AND
2) Is not a basketball member of the P5, Big East, AAC or A-10

Without looking into it, I'm thinking the bar is pretty low. We really needed to move to the A-10 when Lefty said it was necessary.