(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships.

I'm not so sure this is a good thing. They going to fire Dana in two seasons if he's winning 8-9 games and no AAC championships? How long is that method of running your program viable for before nobody wants to coach there?

Georgia Southern fired a coach after 18 games. Teams in this conference have expectations to compete for championships too.

(01-09-2019 10:48 AM)_x_ Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships.

I'm not so sure this is a good thing. They going to fire Dana in two seasons if he's winning 8-9 games and no AAC championships? How long is that method of running your program viable for before nobody wants to coach there?

Georgia Southern fired a coach after 18 games. Teams in this conference have expectations to compete for championships too.

I know they do. That's why I respect their program.

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 06:16 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 01:22 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 01:10 PM)asucrutch23 Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 12:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Man oh man. Judging by some of the comments here, if this new staff doesn't deliver a Top 25 team in short order there's going to be a lot of distraught App Fans. Huge expectations for a program just 5 years into FBS.

So we should lower our expectations to avoid disappointment? That seems counterproductive.

I think I'll take it from arguably the greatest athlete of all-time, Bo Jackson, instead: "Set your goals high and don't stop 'til you get there."

Like I told the TXST fan, to each his own. You do you, and I'll do me.

I agree with this. It's why Houston is doing what they are doing right now. They refuse to lower their expectations.

Houston is also paying their HC a highest in the G5 $20 mil with an assistant pool of $4.5 mil. They generate more than $60 mil in revenues annually, have spent more than $200 mil on athletic facilities the past 5 years and have an athletic budget nearing $100 mil. Houston is a cash rich city and the university has a sports crazed Billionaire sitting on their BOT. Houston is the absolute worst comparison you could have used.

Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships. This is why the Marshall fan base is on strike right now with our administration. Attendance has been going down last few years and will tank next year as we are sending a message. We are not happy with 9-4 if there is no championship ring. Unfortunately, our current leadership has settled for mediocrity so we are currently in football purgatory. Consistently winning 8-10 games but no rings.


As for Houston, everything you just stated is just one more reason why the Memphis football program is on a totally other level than App's. An App fan tried to say I was wrong because App has won more games. Well Memphis has also won a lot of games since 2014, they have been ranked multiple times, got in top 15 two separate seasons, have a much bigger budget, and a much bigger fan base etc. There's no comparison really.

All of us, Marshall included, still have a long ways to go in terms of catching up to them as overall programs. It takes time. Marshall has definitely grown since moving up and I can only imagine where App St would be right now had they moved up with us in 1997.

As the App fan said, its going to be a fight, but we can do it.

Um, how many rings does Memphis have over past 4 years???

I assume you mean conference championships and bowl wins. I'll wait ...

(01-09-2019 02:14 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 06:16 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 01:22 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 01:10 PM)asucrutch23 Wrote:  So we should lower our expectations to avoid disappointment? That seems counterproductive.

I think I'll take it from arguably the greatest athlete of all-time, Bo Jackson, instead: "Set your goals high and don't stop 'til you get there."

Like I told the TXST fan, to each his own. You do you, and I'll do me.

I agree with this. It's why Houston is doing what they are doing right now. They refuse to lower their expectations.

Houston is also paying their HC a highest in the G5 $20 mil with an assistant pool of $4.5 mil. They generate more than $60 mil in revenues annually, have spent more than $200 mil on athletic facilities the past 5 years and have an athletic budget nearing $100 mil. Houston is a cash rich city and the university has a sports crazed Billionaire sitting on their BOT. Houston is the absolute worst comparison you could have used.

Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships. This is why the Marshall fan base is on strike right now with our administration. Attendance has been going down last few years and will tank next year as we are sending a message. We are not happy with 9-4 if there is no championship ring. Unfortunately, our current leadership has settled for mediocrity so we are currently in football purgatory. Consistently winning 8-10 games but no rings.


As for Houston, everything you just stated is just one more reason why the Memphis football program is on a totally other level than App's. An App fan tried to say I was wrong because App has won more games. Well Memphis has also won a lot of games since 2014, they have been ranked multiple times, got in top 15 two separate seasons, have a much bigger budget, and a much bigger fan base etc. There's no comparison really.

All of us, Marshall included, still have a long ways to go in terms of catching up to them as overall programs. It takes time. Marshall has definitely grown since moving up and I can only imagine where App St would be right now had they moved up with us in 1997.

As the App fan said, its going to be a fight, but we can do it.

Um, how many rings does Memphis have over past 4 years???

I assume you mean conference championships and bowl wins. I'll wait ...

Memphis has won their division multiple times. Memphis would have multiple rings playing in the Sun Belt.

Memphis athletic budget is over $48 million and only 37% subsidized.

App St athletic budget is barely $35 million and over 60% subsidized.

Memphis HC Salary- $2.6 million/year.

App St.- $725k/year.

Memphis averages over 30k/game...App St 21k/game.

Memphis has been ranked and nationally relevant multiple years....App St has not.

(01-09-2019 04:03 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 02:14 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 06:16 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 01:22 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  I agree with this. It's why Houston is doing what they are doing right now. They refuse to lower their expectations.

Houston is also paying their HC a highest in the G5 $20 mil with an assistant pool of $4.5 mil. They generate more than $60 mil in revenues annually, have spent more than $200 mil on athletic facilities the past 5 years and have an athletic budget nearing $100 mil. Houston is a cash rich city and the university has a sports crazed Billionaire sitting on their BOT. Houston is the absolute worst comparison you could have used.

Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships. This is why the Marshall fan base is on strike right now with our administration. Attendance has been going down last few years and will tank next year as we are sending a message. We are not happy with 9-4 if there is no championship ring. Unfortunately, our current leadership has settled for mediocrity so we are currently in football purgatory. Consistently winning 8-10 games but no rings.


As for Houston, everything you just stated is just one more reason why the Memphis football program is on a totally other level than App's. An App fan tried to say I was wrong because App has won more games. Well Memphis has also won a lot of games since 2014, they have been ranked multiple times, got in top 15 two separate seasons, have a much bigger budget, and a much bigger fan base etc. There's no comparison really.

All of us, Marshall included, still have a long ways to go in terms of catching up to them as overall programs. It takes time. Marshall has definitely grown since moving up and I can only imagine where App St would be right now had they moved up with us in 1997.

As the App fan said, its going to be a fight, but we can do it.

Um, how many rings does Memphis have over past 4 years???

I assume you mean conference championships and bowl wins. I'll wait ...

Memphis has won their division multiple times. Memphis would have multiple rings playing in the Sun Belt.

Memphis athletic budget is over $48 million and only 37% subsidized.

App St athletic budget is barely $35 million and over 60% subsidized.

Memphis HC Salary- $2.6 million/year.

App St.- $725k/year.

Memphis averages over 30k/game...App St 21k/game.

Memphis has been ranked and nationally relevant multiple years....App St has not.

Ok, I'll play again.

"Won their division"... lol whoopdeedoo. They have 4 conference titles all-time.

Honest question. When did you start following college football? Memphis football has an all-time losing record. A laughingstock in the 80s, mediocre at beast in the 90s and 00s, and a laughingstock again through 2013. They had NEVER won 10 games until 2014. They are where they are as an athletic department because of basketball. Wow they have a higher budget, congrats on doing less with more, I guess?

(01-09-2019 04:26 PM)asucrutch23 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 04:03 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 02:14 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 06:16 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  Houston is also paying their HC a highest in the G5 $20 mil with an assistant pool of $4.5 mil. They generate more than $60 mil in revenues annually, have spent more than $200 mil on athletic facilities the past 5 years and have an athletic budget nearing $100 mil. Houston is a cash rich city and the university has a sports crazed Billionaire sitting on their BOT. Houston is the absolute worst comparison you could have used.

Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships. This is why the Marshall fan base is on strike right now with our administration. Attendance has been going down last few years and will tank next year as we are sending a message. We are not happy with 9-4 if there is no championship ring. Unfortunately, our current leadership has settled for mediocrity so we are currently in football purgatory. Consistently winning 8-10 games but no rings.


As for Houston, everything you just stated is just one more reason why the Memphis football program is on a totally other level than App's. An App fan tried to say I was wrong because App has won more games. Well Memphis has also won a lot of games since 2014, they have been ranked multiple times, got in top 15 two separate seasons, have a much bigger budget, and a much bigger fan base etc. There's no comparison really.

All of us, Marshall included, still have a long ways to go in terms of catching up to them as overall programs. It takes time. Marshall has definitely grown since moving up and I can only imagine where App St would be right now had they moved up with us in 1997.

As the App fan said, its going to be a fight, but we can do it.

Um, how many rings does Memphis have over past 4 years???

I assume you mean conference championships and bowl wins. I'll wait ...

Memphis has won their division multiple times. Memphis would have multiple rings playing in the Sun Belt.

Memphis athletic budget is over $48 million and only 37% subsidized.

App St athletic budget is barely $35 million and over 60% subsidized.

Memphis HC Salary- $2.6 million/year.

App St.- $725k/year.

Memphis averages over 30k/game...App St 21k/game.

Memphis has been ranked and nationally relevant multiple years....App St has not.

Ok, I'll play again.

"Won their division"... lol whoopdeedoo. They have 4 conference titles all-time.

Honest question. When did you start following college football? Memphis football has an all-time losing record. A laughingstock in the 80s, mediocre at beast in the 90s and 00s, and a laughingstock again through 2013. They had NEVER won 10 games until 2014. They are where they are as an athletic department because of basketball. Wow they have a higher budget, congrats on doing less with more, I guess?

Erroneous. You're either winning your conference or you're not. Memphis doesn't play in the Sunbelt so arguing that point is just plain stupid. That's like saying a mid-level P5 would rip through a G5 schedule year and year out if they could keep getting their $20-40 million payouts. Put any of them on a shoe string budget like most of us have and they'd be in the exact same boat within 5 years.

Herdfan, you're saying Memphis is better because they have more money and pay their coach more. Crutch is saying "yeah that's great but what has that actually gotten them? Memphis seems to be spending a lot of money and not getting THAT much out of it" yet you continue to argue that Memphis is achieving more.

The truth is both of you are correct. Yes, Memphis is doing great with money and donations (basically the on paper stuff). App fans should be envious of their financial situation including their relationship with FedEx and what their fans donate....what program wouldn't?

Yet App (in some aspects, W-L's both year to year and all-time) is out performing Memphis on the field. It's true that App is only 5 seasons into FBS and has yet to build the cache' Memphis has but a lot of that is granted to them by their longer FBS tenure and conference affiliation. App has been getting pretty near 100% of juice out of the squeeze, Memphis is getting the same amount of juice but they have twice as many oranges.

Sun Belt fans: Sun Belt is a better football conference than CUSA
Herdfan: No it isn't, Memphis is better than App State




solid logic here.

(01-09-2019 05:11 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  Sun Belt fans: Sun Belt is a better football conference than CUSA
Herdfan: No it isn't, Memphis is better than App State




solid logic here.

CUSA is still a better football conference but Sun Belt has drastically narrowed the gap over the last 2 years.

(01-09-2019 05:26 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 05:11 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  Sun Belt fans: Sun Belt is a better football conference than CUSA
Herdfan: No it isn't, Memphis is better than App State




solid logic here.

CUSA is still a better football conference but Sun Belt has drastically narrowed the gap over the last 2 years.

(01-09-2019 05:26 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 05:11 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  Sun Belt fans: Sun Belt is a better football conference than CUSA
Herdfan: No it isn't, Memphis is better than App State




solid logic here.

CUSA is still a better football conference but Sun Belt has drastically narrowed the gap over the last 2 years.

(01-09-2019 11:11 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:48 AM)_x_ Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships.

I'm not so sure this is a good thing. They going to fire Dana in two seasons if he's winning 8-9 games and no AAC championships? How long is that method of running your program viable for before nobody wants to coach there?

Georgia Southern fired a coach after 18 games. Teams in this conference have expectations to compete for championships too.

I know they do. That's why I respect their program.

You underestimate the lure and power of $millions. Most head coaches that are fired but are half way decent land something similar to what got them there in the first place. If they're to stupid to take an opportunity like Houston or even GS for that matter they never should have been asked in the first place. Sure it happens that a coach may wait for something better but not enough to be relevant. Two of the last three GS coaches can retire comfortably soon.

(01-09-2019 05:26 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 05:11 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  Sun Belt fans: Sun Belt is a better football conference than CUSA
Herdfan: No it isn't, Memphis is better than App State




solid logic here.

CUSA is still a better football conference but Sun Belt has drastically narrowed the gap over the last 2 years.

CUSA has fallen just as much as the Sun Belt has improved. During realignment, y'all grabbed some of the most mediocre Sun Belt schools plus WKU, and now you are left wondering how CUSA has sunk under the level of the Sun Belt.

According to the Massey Composite, the Sun Belt is above both the MAC and CUSA with an average team ranking of 85.5. CUSA, ranked dead last out of all conferences, has an average ranking of 93.21 and also the worst ranked team in UTEP.

Even if you take out App State - who is an obvious outlier for the Sun Belt - the SBC still has a higher average team ranking than CUSA does with their top team UAB included.

This is empirical data not emotional bias which clearly shows that CUSA is no longer better at football than the Sun Belt. This information is current. It's superfluous to look at the 5 year stretch since realignment. 5 years is an incredibly long time in college football especially at the G5 level. To put it in perspective, every single Sun Belt school has gone through at least one coaching staff in the past 5 years. Also in the past 5 seasons, the SBC has lost a total of 7 schools and added a total of 8 schools in that same time span.

The outcome is what we've been saying since the beginning of this thread which is that CUSA is not better than the Sun Belt despite what the emotional bias of some of the older CUSA schools is saying.

Yeah. Let's not look at all 5 years. Let's just pick out the only 2 years that give the Sun Belt an argument lol.

(01-09-2019 07:11 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Yeah. Let's not look at all 5 years. Let's just pick out the only 2 years that give the Sun Belt an argument lol.

I'm not going to read whatever led up to this, so I don't have context.... Still, I'll say this. 5 years ago was 2 lifetimes ago for the SB. None of us have any money in the lowest of G5, so real fanbases and tradition matter. The SB is much better thanks to GS and their daddy, App State. Marshal has a reckoning coming. I hope that fat Governor I heard moaning at the Greenbrier is ready for more disappointment.

When looking at trends the most recent years are more important. Next year CUSA fans will be measuring the last 7-10 years...

(01-09-2019 05:05 PM)APPdiesel Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 04:26 PM)asucrutch23 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 04:03 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 02:14 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 10:42 AM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Then you can't see the forest for the trees. It's not about what they are paying and who they hired. It's the fact that they fired their coach after 2 mediocre seasons. They didn't wait for him to go 3-9 before doing something. They have expectations to compete for and win championships. This is why the Marshall fan base is on strike right now with our administration. Attendance has been going down last few years and will tank next year as we are sending a message. We are not happy with 9-4 if there is no championship ring. Unfortunately, our current leadership has settled for mediocrity so we are currently in football purgatory. Consistently winning 8-10 games but no rings.


As for Houston, everything you just stated is just one more reason why the Memphis football program is on a totally other level than App's. An App fan tried to say I was wrong because App has won more games. Well Memphis has also won a lot of games since 2014, they have been ranked multiple times, got in top 15 two separate seasons, have a much bigger budget, and a much bigger fan base etc. There's no comparison really.

All of us, Marshall included, still have a long ways to go in terms of catching up to them as overall programs. It takes time. Marshall has definitely grown since moving up and I can only imagine where App St would be right now had they moved up with us in 1997.

As the App fan said, its going to be a fight, but we can do it.

Um, how many rings does Memphis have over past 4 years???

I assume you mean conference championships and bowl wins. I'll wait ...

Memphis has won their division multiple times. Memphis would have multiple rings playing in the Sun Belt.

Memphis athletic budget is over $48 million and only 37% subsidized.

App St athletic budget is barely $35 million and over 60% subsidized.

Memphis HC Salary- $2.6 million/year.

App St.- $725k/year.

Memphis averages over 30k/game...App St 21k/game.

Memphis has been ranked and nationally relevant multiple years....App St has not.

Ok, I'll play again.

"Won their division"... lol whoopdeedoo. They have 4 conference titles all-time.

Honest question. When did you start following college football? Memphis football has an all-time losing record. A laughingstock in the 80s, mediocre at beast in the 90s and 00s, and a laughingstock again through 2013. They had NEVER won 10 games until 2014. They are where they are as an athletic department because of basketball. Wow they have a higher budget, congrats on doing less with more, I guess?

Erroneous. You're either winning your conference or you're not. Memphis doesn't play in the Sunbelt so arguing that point is just plain stupid. That's like saying a mid-level P5 would rip through a G5 schedule year and year out if they could keep getting their $20-40 million payouts. Put any of them on a shoe string budget like most of us have and they'd be in the exact same boat within 5 years.

Herdfan, you're saying Memphis is better because they have more money and pay their coach more. Crutch is saying "yeah that's great but what has that actually gotten them? Memphis seems to be spending a lot of money and not getting THAT much out of it" yet you continue to argue that Memphis is achieving more.

The truth is both of you are correct. Yes, Memphis is doing great with money and donations (basically the on paper stuff). App fans should be envious of their financial situation including their relationship with FedEx and what their fans donate....what program wouldn't?

Yet App (in some aspects, W-L's both year to year and all-time) is out performing Memphis on the field. It's true that App is only 5 seasons into FBS and has yet to build the cache' Memphis has but a lot of that is granted to them by their longer FBS tenure and conference affiliation. App has been getting pretty near 100% of juice out of the squeeze, Memphis is getting the same amount of juice but they have twice as many oranges.

I still haven't received an answer yet, over the past 4 years, how many rings Memphis has ... and it shouldn't hard to find. (Because it's not very many)

For the argument, App has 3 conference titles, and 4 bowl wins for a total of 7!
and ya know what? That was done without the advantage of a large athletic budget, done without extra funds for the head coach, or the time in FBS to build a large enough fan base.

Are you sure it's about winning Championships? Or having more money? Or maybe its just denial that the Sun Belt is putting forth multiple programs that consistently win while CUSA doesn't?

(01-09-2019 07:11 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Yeah. Let's not look at all 5 years. Let's just pick out the only 2 years that give the Sun Belt an argument lol.

This makes perfect sense in a vacuum. Is it reasonable to assume that the newest additions will improve regress or stay the same as they revert to their mean? How many years before we have enough data to challenge your assumptions?

Marshal fan made comment earlier that Marshals in purgatory at the moment. Wus that? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

(01-09-2019 09:51 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 07:11 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Yeah. Let's not look at all 5 years. Let's just pick out the only 2 years that give the Sun Belt an argument lol.

This makes perfect sense in a vacuum. Is it reasonable to assume that the newest additions will improve regress or stay the same as they revert to their mean? How many years before we have enough data to challenge your assumptions?

Marshal fan made comment earlier that Marshals in purgatory at the moment. Wus that? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

it means they are back to being as irrelevant as 90% of G5 programs, and just another name on a score ticker.

(01-09-2019 10:07 PM)NCeagle Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 09:51 PM)Oldyeller Wrote:  

(01-09-2019 07:11 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  Yeah. Let's not look at all 5 years. Let's just pick out the only 2 years that give the Sun Belt an argument lol.

This makes perfect sense in a vacuum. Is it reasonable to assume that the newest additions will improve regress or stay the same as they revert to their mean? How many years before we have enough data to challenge your assumptions?

Marshall fan made comment earlier that Marshalls in purgatory at the moment. Wus that? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

it means they are back to being as irrelevant as 90% of G5 programs, and just another name on a score ticker.

The bottom line is the G5 needs more Central Florida's.

Too many programs have become stagnant throughout the league. If we do our jobs as the little/new guys and push the top to compete we're all in better shape. Starts in the Sun Belt.

If we continue this very quick the Sun Belt becomes a player even a catalyst in change. Marshal should consider partnering with their old rivals and get on board soon.

(01-09-2019 06:16 AM)AppManDG Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 01:22 PM)herdfan129 Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 01:10 PM)asucrutch23 Wrote:  

(01-08-2019 12:52 PM)AppManDG Wrote:  Man oh man. Judging by some of the comments here, if this new staff doesn't deliver a Top 25 team in short order there's going to be a lot of distraught App Fans. Huge expectations for a program just 5 years into FBS.

So we should lower our expectations to avoid disappointment? That seems counterproductive.

I think I'll take it from arguably the greatest athlete of all-time, Bo Jackson, instead: "Set your goals high and don't stop 'til you get there."

Like I told the TXST fan, to each his own. You do you, and I'll do me.

I agree with this. It's why Houston is doing what they are doing right now. They refuse to lower their expectations.

Houston is also paying their HC a highest in the G5 $20 mil with an assistant pool of $4.5 mil. They generate more than $60 mil in revenues annually, have spent more than $200 mil on athletic facilities the past 5 years and have an athletic budget nearing $100 mil. Houston is a cash rich city and the university has a sports crazed Billionaire sitting on their BOT. Houston is the absolute worst comparison you could have used.

And Army used them as a toilet. Houston is not Boise. They are way too inconsistent. It isn’t all about money.