(12-23-2018 12:18 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Rice versus Army in recent memory:

2014, won, 41-21
2015, won, 38-31
2016, lost, 14-31
2017, lost 12-49

Doesn't take long to turn things around if you're on the right track.

And if you change your admissions policies to allow less academically qualified student-athletes into your academy.

This is untrue. The modifications that were made to Army football upon Monken’s arrival had more to do with summer training schedules, facility upgrades, and staff expansion than academics. You can see this alluded to in this article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.recordo...ate=ampart

They are now competing on a level playing field with Navy which was not true for much of the 2000’s.

I have pretty good insight into how things work at both Army and Navy as well as Rice...

The advantages that Army/Navy have over Rice: Unlimited (well, not unlimited but more than 85) scholarships, better fan support/tradition, and better funding/staffing... They also have the prep schools.

The advantages Rice has over Army/Navy: No military commitment, no mandatory STEM core, better located campus, ability to JuCos/Transfers, easier schedule (than Navy... Army schedules have been pretty weak but they’re getting better if you look 2020 and beyond), the ability to redshirt

Pick your poison. I personally think you can win at all three places. Since 2002, Navy has done a far better job facilitating winning than Rice as has Army since they hired Monken. Most of these things have to do with $ and staffing. That has improved under Bloomgren but is still behind the academies.

I don’t know much about the inner workings of the Air Force program so I’ll refrain from comment.

(12-22-2018 09:54 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:05 PM)Ourland Wrote:  We're so bad that we revel in UH's misfortunes. I knew they'd get handled, but not that badly. Applewhite better get it together.

UH is the closest thing we have to a rival. So independent of how we do, I will always revel in their misfortune.

+1
Our success or failure doesn't enter into it.
That's part of the rivalry, and they are our proximate rival.
It's likely that UT and A&M each revel when the other loses, and they haven't played each other in...

We knew that Oliver had opted out of the bowl, but the Chron (the only paper in town) reported that three other defensive lineman were on the injured list and wouldn't play.
With no idea what the Coogs' bowl squad depth chart looked like, that's got to be a big hit on their D-line rotation.
Evidently.

Our Frosh QB looked better than theirs did. Bode well for future?

(12-23-2018 12:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(12-23-2018 12:18 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Rice versus Army in recent memory:
2014, won, 41-21
2015, won, 38-31
2016, lost, 14-31
2017, lost 12-49
Doesn't take long to turn things around if you're on the right track.

And if you change your admissions policies to allow less academically qualified student-athletes into your academy.

This is untrue. The modifications that were made to Army football upon Monken’s arrival had more to do with summer training schedules, facility upgrades, and staff expansion than academics. You can see this alluded to in this article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.recordo...ate=ampart
They are now competing on a level playing field with Navy which was not true for much of the 2000’s.
I have pretty good insight into how things work at both Army and Navy as well as Rice...
The advantages that Army/Navy have over Rice: Unlimited (well, not unlimited but more than 85) scholarships, better fan support/tradition, and better funding/staffing... They also have the prep schools.
The advantages Rice has over Army/Navy: No military commitment, no mandatory STEM core, better located campus, ability to JuCos/Transfers, easier schedule (than Navy... Army schedules have been pretty weak but they’re getting better if you look 2020 and beyond), the ability to redshirt
Pick your poison. I personally think you can win at all three places. Since 2002, Navy has done a far better job facilitating winning than Rice as has Army since they hired Monken. Most of these things have to do with $ and staffing. That has improved under Bloomgren but is still behind the academies.
I don’t know much about the inner workings of the Air Force program so I’ll refrain from comment.

Good summary, which appears to reflect your familiarity with the programs discussed.

I think what the advantages and disadvantages say, net, is that we are close enough to a push with them, that with the right level of commitment we could be where Army is or where Navy has been.

I do think a key to their success has been recognizing that they are going after a different kind of athlete, and designing and implementing schemes to make best use of those different skill sets. I think that would be a key for us as well--not necessarily the flexbone, although that should be on the table for consideration, but something contrarian on both sides of the ball, to make use of the specific athlete skill sets that we can recruit.

(12-24-2018 09:32 AM)Grungy Wrote:  We knew that Oliver had opted out of the bowl, but the Chron (the only paper in town) reported that three other defensive lineman were on the injured list and wouldn't play.
With no idea what the Coogs' bowl squad depth chart looked like, that's got to be a big hit on their D-line rotation.
Evidently.

13 players on the 2 deep did not play in the bowl game.

(12-23-2018 12:40 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(12-23-2018 12:18 AM)WRCisforgotten79 Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Rice versus Army in recent memory:

2014, won, 41-21
2015, won, 38-31
2016, lost, 14-31
2017, lost 12-49

Doesn't take long to turn things around if you're on the right track.

And if you change your admissions policies to allow less academically qualified student-athletes into your academy.

This is untrue. The modifications that were made to Army football upon Monken’s arrival had more to do with summer training schedules, facility upgrades, and staff expansion than academics. You can see this alluded to in this article: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.recordo...ate=ampart

They are now competing on a level playing field with Navy which was not true for much of the 2000’s.

I have pretty good insight into how things work at both Army and Navy as well.

If you really believe that Army's improvement is based upon summer school and facility upgrades, then you would have loved an A38-Valiant.

(12-24-2018 09:28 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:54 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:05 PM)Ourland Wrote:  We're so bad that we revel in UH's misfortunes. I knew they'd get handled, but not that badly. Applewhite better get it together.

UH is the closest thing we have to a rival. So independent of how we do, I will always revel in their misfortune.

+1
Our success or failure doesn't enter into it.
That's part of the rivalry, and they are our proximate rival.
It's likely that UT and A&M each revel when the other loses, and they haven't played each other in...

UH experiences a lot more athletics success and belongs in a better conference. I'd characterize it more as "resentment" than anything else. They've left us behind in their dust. To hell with the cougars.

(12-24-2018 07:22 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:28 AM)Grungy Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:54 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(12-22-2018 09:05 PM)Ourland Wrote:  We're so bad that we revel in UH's misfortunes. I knew they'd get handled, but not that badly. Applewhite better get it together.

UH is the closest thing we have to a rival. So independent of how we do, I will always revel in their misfortune.

+1
Our success or failure doesn't enter into it.
That's part of the rivalry, and they are our proximate rival.
It's likely that UT and A&M each revel when the other loses, and they haven't played each other in...

UH experiences a lot more athletics success and belongs in a better conference. I'd characterize it more as "resentment" than anything else. They've left us behind in their dust. To hell with the cougars.

Depends on perspective I guess. I was partially raised as an expat, and the whole "rooting for your conference" thing is still bizarre to me. Anyone who is in my division, conference or a rival- I root for them to lose and enjoy when they do.

Manchester United doesnt cheer for City just because they are from the same place. The Indian cricket team is almost as happy when Pakistan loses as they are when they win. And god forbid you dont pick a side on El Clasico.

I dont resent UH at all. I just enjoy watching our rival coog it up.. because that's what makes a rivalry good.

(12-25-2018 10:51 AM)Antarius Wrote:  Depends on perspective I guess. I was partially raised as an expat, and the whole "rooting for your conference" thing is still bizarre to me. Anyone who is in my division, conference or a rival- I root for them to lose and enjoy when they do.
Manchester United doesnt cheer for City just because they are from the same place. The Indian cricket team is almost as happy when Pakistan loses as they are when they win. And god forbid you dont pick a side on El Clasico.
I dont resent UH at all. I just enjoy watching our rival coog it up.. because that's what makes a rivalry good.

I grew up in SEC country, and it was very much an "us against the world" mentality. With Alabama's dominance I think that has changed somewhat--they like to see Alabama lose. But I'm guessing 90% of SEC fans will be cheering for 'Bama in the playoffs.

I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

(12-25-2018 03:54 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

Not sure why any athletic success UH has would make you mad at Rice. The lack of Rice doing what it takes to be successful should be the focus of your anger.

(12-25-2018 04:20 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 03:54 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

Not sure why any athletic success UH has would make you mad at Rice. The lack of Rice doing what it takes to be successful should be the focus of your anger.

UH dominates the local college sports scene. Their success continuously magnifies the gulf between us. I admit it gets under my skin.

(12-25-2018 08:37 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 04:20 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 03:54 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

Not sure why any athletic success UH has would make you mad at Rice. The lack of Rice doing what it takes to be successful should be the focus of your anger.

UH dominates the local college sports scene. Their success continuously magnifies the gulf between us. I admit it gets under my skin.

Neither Rice nor UH dominate the local college sports scene. It’s a fractured market.

(12-25-2018 09:37 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 08:37 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 04:20 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 03:54 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

Not sure why any athletic success UH has would make you mad at Rice. The lack of Rice doing what it takes to be successful should be the focus of your anger.

UH dominates the local college sports scene. Their success continuously magnifies the gulf between us. I admit it gets under my skin.

Neither Rice nor UH dominate the local college sports scene. It’s a fractured market.

There's a local college sports market?

I thought Houston was a Pro sports town.

(12-25-2018 10:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 09:37 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 08:37 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 04:20 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 03:54 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

Not sure why any athletic success UH has would make you mad at Rice. The lack of Rice doing what it takes to be successful should be the focus of your anger.

UH dominates the local college sports scene. Their success continuously magnifies the gulf between us. I admit it gets under my skin.

Neither Rice nor UH dominate the local college sports scene. It’s a fractured market.

There's a local college sports market?

I thought Houston was a Pro sports town.

Yes! Astros, Rockets, Texans, Horns, Aggies

(12-25-2018 09:37 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 08:37 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 04:20 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 03:54 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

Not sure why any athletic success UH has would make you mad at Rice. The lack of Rice doing what it takes to be successful should be the focus of your anger.

UH dominates the local college sports scene. Their success continuously magnifies the gulf between us. I admit it gets under my skin.

Neither Rice nor UH dominate the local college sports scene. It’s a fractured market.

...and UH gets much more fan support and media coverage in it than Rice.

(12-26-2018 01:29 AM)Ourland Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 09:37 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 08:37 PM)Ourland Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 04:20 PM)Tomball Owl Wrote:  

(12-25-2018 03:54 PM)Ourland Wrote:  I don't care much about UH, but their athletics success does make me mad at Rice. So mad.

Not sure why any athletic success UH has would make you mad at Rice. The lack of Rice doing what it takes to be successful should be the focus of your anger.

UH dominates the local college sports scene. Their success continuously magnifies the gulf between us. I admit it gets under my skin.

Neither Rice nor UH dominate the local college sports scene. It’s a fractured market.

...and UH gets much more fan support and media coverage in it than Rice.

That makes sense, just on the comparative student bodies and alumni base. To offset that, we need success. That means winning.