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Carey Contract Extended Again?
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JB04 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
I sometimes wonder if the orange bowl long term created some negatives. Almost as it apexed the program and now nothing seems to compare. Then lethargy kicked in for the entire football program
12-25-2018 10:41 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Online
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Post: #62
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 01:01 AM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(12-24-2018 09:27 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  
(12-24-2018 11:42 AM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(12-22-2018 11:24 PM)HuskieJoe Wrote:  Ken Chessick has made comments that clearly support Carey. ... I would imagine he isn’t alone .... unlikely Frazier makes decisions on his own
Seems there are plenty of big time donors and ex players quietly supporting him and are not getting into a debate about it on social media.

No offense HuskieJoe but do you know what happens when you assume?
One, we don't have a lot of "big-time" donors, but you are right saying Chessick has made supportive statements. However, there's no basis to say other "big-time" donors necessarily support him just like there is no basis to say ex-players directly support Carey as much as they continue to support the program. Personally I'm familiar with quite a few ex-players who are concerned about this coach. Since there's no official poll, how do you even know what percentage of the "rest of fans and donors" is that do or don't support Carey. If their support is so "quiet", how do you know it exists?
In an earlier psot you said "I think the Carey hate mongerers are doing more to erode the fan base at this pint than anything else." You honestly think that many people who visit The Dog Pound and made up their mind based on what they read? Seriously?
If the "hate mongerers" are so powerful, then how can Frazier ignore them? I have to agree with a follow-up post by NIU007 that said "Most just want to see NIU finally win a bowl game, or at a minimum, not get crushed." There was a point in time when we were 3-3 in bowls. Sorry, but it's disappointing to be 3-9 in bowl games with six consecutive losses -- all under Carey. Like NIU007 suggested, being 5-7 or 4-8 with a couple losses by six or fewer points would look a lot better.

If you think being 4-8 and losing a crappy bowl game by 3 is better than winning a macc and having a crap bowl game, you’ve lost your mind. We would all like the Huskies to do better in their bowl games, but it is without a doubt the least important game of the season. Ask ball state fans how much fun is 4-8 or 5-7. Heck, just become a ball state fan if that’s better.

FYI-the Mac has one winning bowl season in The last 15. The Mac sucks. NIU is the tallest midget.

I'm not sure about this, Rabid. Typically, you are the top dog and best wordsmith for the pro-Carey camp, but do you really believe the bowl game holds no significance whatsoever? The game that you play the entire season to try to get to is less important than every single conference and out of conference game? You hold that Ball State or Western Illinois game in higher regard than Duke or Boise State?

As others have stated - it's not just losing these, so to speak, meaningless games - it's how we lose them. We get blown out and embarrassed. Time and time again. This has to fall on Coach Carey. One or two losses can be explained away, six becomes a pattern.

Im really Carey-neutral, Pro-NIU, anti-NIU is great and Carey ruined it. I come off as pro-Carey when trying to point out what NIU really is and what their success was built around.

The bowl game relevance varies season to season. To me every conference game is more important. As we saw this season, 1 more conference win can be the difference between a MACC opportunity or not. The entire OOC slate this season was more important than the Boca Bowl. Iowa, FSU, Utah, BYU. Everyone of those games were bigger than UAB. So this season yes, Boca Bowl was least important game. Getting blown out puts a greater level of negative significance on it, but if you asked me which game was the least important it is still UAB.

There are regular season games that would mean less than a bowl. It would not be losing to an FCS team. That has the same impact as getting blown out in a bowl. Too much negativity and doubt. But playing another decent G5 and losing? Yeah, means very little and I'd much rather have a bowl win.
12-25-2018 12:22 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #63
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
A win over Utah or Iowa would have helped NIU's brand more than another MACC.
12-25-2018 12:57 PM
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jjj Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
NIU may or may not be favored in next years bowl game. It depends on how good the 2019 version of NIU is and who they are playing. The past history of NIU in bowls is of very little impact to vegas, what matters is the current power ranking of the two teams playing in a bowl.

If NIU goes 11-1 and somehow plays a second tier Troy or FIU, NIU will be favored, like Toledo was this year over FIU. Really depends on the opponent....

Each year is different because teams vary year to year.
12-25-2018 01:46 PM
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HW58 Online
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Post: #65
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
Obviously wins over P5 schools (even losses like the one against Ohio State) are big for schools like NIU. They help with school brand, recruiting, fan interest, etc. Obviously MACC championships are also big for schools like NIU. NIU isn't getting too many 4 and 5 star players (like virtually none), so if a 2 or 3 star player has offers from KSU, CMU and NIU, I like our chances of landing those players because we compete every year and win our share of conference championships. And of course wins in bowl games a big for schools like NIU. Who the hell wants to end the season getting blown out in a bowl game, even if it's the schlub bowl against an opponent from a small conference basically the equivalent of the MACC. As a single game during the course of a season, of course beating UAB in a bowl game has a more lasting impact than beating Ball State half way through the season. But every game during the season is impactful in its own way, some more than others. I didn't play college football, but I'm guessing that for every kid who plays the #1 goal over the duration of the season is winning their conference, regardless of whether they play in the Big 10 or the MAC. Winning a bowl game is the cherry on top for a conference winner; for other teams, winning a bowl game is a nice consolation prize. But winning the Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl should not be the main goal of any school, NIU or otherwise. Winning the conference you are in should be #1. I'd be surprised if a poll of the players on NIU or UAB, both conference champs, revealed otherwise. Hate the MAC or not, if a player or team's goal is to win a minor bowl at the end of the year, the bar is set too low.
12-25-2018 02:01 PM
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uiniu57 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 02:01 PM)HW58 Wrote:  Who the hell wants to end the season getting blown out in a bowl game, even if it's the schlub bowl against an opponent from a small conference basically the equivalent of the MACC.

Just curious, can you define "a small conference basically the equivalent" of the MAC? Outside of the Orange, which of our appearances were in "schlub bowls"?
12-25-2018 02:53 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #67
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 01:46 PM)jjj Wrote:  NIU may or may not be favored in next years bowl game. It depends on how good the 2019 version of NIU is and who they are playing. The past history of NIU in bowls is of very little impact to vegas, what matters is the current power ranking of the two teams playing in a bowl.

If NIU goes 11-1 and somehow plays a second tier Troy or FIU, NIU will be favored, like Toledo was this year over FIU. Really depends on the opponent....

Each year is different because teams vary year to year.

I disagree. Normally previous years wouldn't matter. But if I was betting I would look at what is very obviously a trend that very well could impact the game in question.
12-25-2018 04:55 PM
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NIU007 Online
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Post: #68
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 02:01 PM)HW58 Wrote:  Obviously wins over P5 schools (even losses like the one against Ohio State) are big for schools like NIU. They help with school brand, recruiting, fan interest, etc. Obviously MACC championships are also big for schools like NIU. NIU isn't getting too many 4 and 5 star players (like virtually none), so if a 2 or 3 star player has offers from KSU, CMU and NIU, I like our chances of landing those players because we compete every year and win our share of conference championships. And of course wins in bowl games a big for schools like NIU. Who the hell wants to end the season getting blown out in a bowl game, even if it's the schlub bowl against an opponent from a small conference basically the equivalent of the MACC. As a single game during the course of a season, of course beating UAB in a bowl game has a more lasting impact than beating Ball State half way through the season. But every game during the season is impactful in its own way, some more than others. I didn't play college football, but I'm guessing that for every kid who plays the #1 goal over the duration of the season is winning their conference, regardless of whether they play in the Big 10 or the MAC. Winning a bowl game is the cherry on top for a conference winner; for other teams, winning a bowl game is a nice consolation prize. But winning the Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl should not be the main goal of any school, NIU or otherwise. Winning the conference you are in should be #1. I'd be surprised if a poll of the players on NIU or UAB, both conference champs, revealed otherwise. Hate the MAC or not, if a player or team's goal is to win a minor bowl at the end of the year, the bar is set too low.

I would argue that winning the MACC and being okay with getting crushed in the bowl game EVERY year is setting the bar way too low.
12-25-2018 04:57 PM
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62423dp Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 04:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(12-25-2018 02:01 PM)HW58 Wrote:  Obviously wins over P5 schools (even losses like the one against Ohio State) are big for schools like NIU. They help with school brand, recruiting, fan interest, etc. Obviously MACC championships are also big for schools like NIU. NIU isn't getting too many 4 and 5 star players (like virtually none), so if a 2 or 3 star player has offers from KSU, CMU and NIU, I like our chances of landing those players because we compete every year and win our share of conference championships. And of course wins in bowl games a big for schools like NIU. Who the hell wants to end the season getting blown out in a bowl game, even if it's the schlub bowl against an opponent from a small conference basically the equivalent of the MACC. As a single game during the course of a season, of course beating UAB in a bowl game has a more lasting impact than beating Ball State half way through the season. But every game during the season is impactful in its own way, some more than others. I didn't play college football, but I'm guessing that for every kid who plays the #1 goal over the duration of the season is winning their conference, regardless of whether they play in the Big 10 or the MAC. Winning a bowl game is the cherry on top for a conference winner; for other teams, winning a bowl game is a nice consolation prize. But winning the Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl should not be the main goal of any school, NIU or otherwise. Winning the conference you are in should be #1. I'd be surprised if a poll of the players on NIU or UAB, both conference champs, revealed otherwise. Hate the MAC or not, if a player or team's goal is to win a minor bowl at the end of the year, the bar is set too low.

I would argue that winning the MACC and being okay with getting crushed in the bowl game EVERY year is setting the bar way too low.
Bingo. Hope they keep playing some P5 schools and occasionaly knocking one of them off. Continue to get paid to play them.

Cost to athletic dept to attend the bowl games can be pricy. Remember Boughton mentioned that a couple years ago.
12-25-2018 05:29 PM
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HW58 Online
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Post: #70
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 02:53 PM)uiniu57 Wrote:  
(12-25-2018 02:01 PM)HW58 Wrote:  Who the hell wants to end the season getting blown out in a bowl game, even if it's the schlub bowl against an opponent from a small conference basically the equivalent of the MACC.

Just curious, can you define "a small conference basically the equivalent" of the MAC? Outside of the Orange, which of our appearances were in "schlub bowls"?

Thanks for asking for clarification. Instead of "schlub bowl" I probably should have said "small potatoes bowl games" or something to that effect. The bowl games usually filled by non-P5 schools and second-tier P5 conference teams (like Duke last year in the Quicklane Bowl). It's fine to play in these bowl games--definitely better than not playing in any bowl game--but in my opinion, these aren't bowl games that move the needle a whole bunch. Again, my opinion. Boca Raton: Never has had a P5 team play in it. Poinsettia Bowl: Had some ranked teams and decent non-P5 conference teams, but doesn't even exist any longer. Quicklane Bowl: 'nuff said.

Re. "small conference basically the equivalent of the MAC," again poorly worded. (Sorry, the family was suddenly up and at 'em ready to open presents as I was furiously typing this morning!) My meaning was non-P5 conferences that are about as relevant as the MAC on the college football landscape. I know many will debate this, but Conference USA--home of UAB--is a perfect example. Lot of crap teams in C-USA.

Bottom line for me is simple: For the NIUs (and UABs) of the world, winning the conference championship is priority #1, regardless of the conference you happen to be part of. And I think the players on teams like these view a conference championship as their primary goal as well. That doesn't mean I don't put tremendous stock in my team winning nonconference games against P5 opponents and finishing with a bowl win. I definitely do put stock in those things, just not as much as I put in a MACC for NIU.
12-25-2018 10:06 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.
12-25-2018 10:08 PM
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HW58 Online
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Post: #72
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 04:57 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(12-25-2018 02:01 PM)HW58 Wrote:  Obviously wins over P5 schools (even losses like the one against Ohio State) are big for schools like NIU. They help with school brand, recruiting, fan interest, etc. Obviously MACC championships are also big for schools like NIU. NIU isn't getting too many 4 and 5 star players (like virtually none), so if a 2 or 3 star player has offers from KSU, CMU and NIU, I like our chances of landing those players because we compete every year and win our share of conference championships. And of course wins in bowl games a big for schools like NIU. Who the hell wants to end the season getting blown out in a bowl game, even if it's the schlub bowl against an opponent from a small conference basically the equivalent of the MACC. As a single game during the course of a season, of course beating UAB in a bowl game has a more lasting impact than beating Ball State half way through the season. But every game during the season is impactful in its own way, some more than others. I didn't play college football, but I'm guessing that for every kid who plays the #1 goal over the duration of the season is winning their conference, regardless of whether they play in the Big 10 or the MAC. Winning a bowl game is the cherry on top for a conference winner; for other teams, winning a bowl game is a nice consolation prize. But winning the Cheribundi Boca Raton Bowl should not be the main goal of any school, NIU or otherwise. Winning the conference you are in should be #1. I'd be surprised if a poll of the players on NIU or UAB, both conference champs, revealed otherwise. Hate the MAC or not, if a player or team's goal is to win a minor bowl at the end of the year, the bar is set too low.

I would argue that winning the MACC and being okay with getting crushed in the bowl game EVERY year is setting the bar way too low.

007, I definitely didn't say that getting crushed in a bowl game EVERY or ANY year is OK. Agree with you 100%. Goal should be win as many nonconference games as possible, win the MACC, win your bowl game--the order in which the games are played. But winning the conference is, for me, priority number 1. You play most of your games during the season to hopefully achieve exactly that.
12-25-2018 10:10 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 10:08 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.

True analysis. But like others have mentioned, Carey and NIU have minimal resources in comparison to others.
12-25-2018 10:33 PM
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RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 10:08 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.

You have to be a crap team to not make a bowl game season after season. Losing Rod Carey would not knock NIU out of playing in bowl games.
12-26-2018 12:51 AM
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VegasHuskie Offline
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RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-25-2018 10:08 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.

Hi Jon. You illustrate the precise reason NIU should be on the hunt for a new coach. The Chiefs and Browns both realized that they had higher ambitions than simply making the playoffs. Both organizations parted ways with a semi-successful coach because they felt he couldn't take the team one step further.

On our smaller scale, that is where we are at. We have a coach that has proven he can be good in our conference, but completely ineffective post-season. Coach Carey has built a program that is solely designed to defeat MAC competition, but can't compete on a national scale.

Coach Novak, Kill, and Doeren all had teams that were nationally ranked. There is virtually no chance whatsoever that NIU gets back to that level under Coach Carey (not counting the team Carey inherited from Doeren that was nationally ranked). I don't think even the staunchest Carey supporter would argue that.

So for me, Jon, to respond to your comment; I would definitely risk the potential of missing post season play with a new coach if it meant there was the possibility of getting back to being a nationally ranked team.
(This post was last modified: 12-26-2018 01:19 AM by VegasHuskie.)
12-26-2018 01:17 AM
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Post: #76
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-26-2018 12:51 AM)PrideinthePack2 Wrote:  
(12-25-2018 10:08 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.

You have to be a crap team to not make a bowl game season after season. Losing Rod Carey would not knock NIU out of playing in bowl games.

It would if they next Charlie Sadler was hired.
12-26-2018 09:12 AM
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Post: #77
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-26-2018 01:17 AM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(12-25-2018 10:08 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.

Hi Jon. You illustrate the precise reason NIU should be on the hunt for a new coach. The Chiefs and Browns both realized that they had higher ambitions than simply making the playoffs. Both organizations parted ways with a semi-successful coach because they felt he couldn't take the team one step further.

On our smaller scale, that is where we are at. We have a coach that has proven he can be good in our conference, but completely ineffective post-season. Coach Carey has built a program that is solely designed to defeat MAC competition, but can't compete on a national scale.

Coach Novak, Kill, and Doeren all had teams that were nationally ranked. There is virtually no chance whatsoever that NIU gets back to that level under Coach Carey (not counting the team Carey inherited from Doeren that was nationally ranked). I don't think even the staunchest Carey supporter would argue that.

So for me, Jon, to respond to your comment; I would definitely risk the potential of missing post season play with a new coach if it meant there was the possibility of getting back to being a nationally ranked team.

Now the discussion has been elevated to not just winning bowl games like the Boca Raton Bowl, but national rankings! Vegas is right--you shouldn't hang on to a coach because you're afraid of what might happen if you don't. So, if there's a surefire coach out there who can win the MACC, get us ranked and win big bowl games, I'm all in. Go for it! Just like Lance Leipold in Buffalo (oh wait, nevermind). But can we for once give an honest appraisal of Novak, Kill and Doeren since they are the metric used to judge Carey? Novak: rightfully sainted, brought the program to a whole different level, incredible role model. Love Joe Novak. But...in 2003, the year we all speak of with hushed reverence, NIU beat MD, Bama, and Iowa St., got to 7-0, and were ranked as high as 10 in the country. We then lost to BGU and Toledo over our next five games to finish 10-2, not win the MACC, finish unranked, and without a bowl invite. Hmmm...flash to 2013: 12-0, comfortably in the top 25, we lose the MACC and our bowl game to finish 12-2 and ever since people have wanted Rod Carey's head on a pole. I don't see much difference between how 2003 and 2013 ended, but Carey has been hated ever since. Kill: Had great success at NIU over a short period of time with Novak-recruited Harnish. Gets in the rankings, goes to the MACC in his final year, loses to Miami of Ohio, falls out of the rankings, and tells the team via email he's out the door for the Minnesota job. Classy! NIU wins their bowl game despite him (thanks Coach Tuke!). But everyone still talks about Kill like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Carey inherited Lynch, and to half the guys on this board that serves as an indicator that he sucks as a coach. Where would Kill have been without Harnish? Doeren: Arguably the best coach NIU has ever had (based on his short time in DeKalb and how he's done since). But another guy who inherited important players: Harnish and then Lynch. Gets the team to the freaking Orange Bowl and bags on NIU before the bowl game. Again, classy! Says he regrets not coaching that game to this day. I'm not saying these guys weren't very good to great coaches--they were. But a lot of the arguments used to elevate them are the same arguments used to knock down Carey. RC has is flaws, for sure. And it's quite possible the program has, indeed, plateaued (next year with Childers a junior and Smith/Scharping off to the pros will be very telling). If the program has, indeed, plateaued or, worse, is going backwards, then it's time to look in a different direction. We are on a crappy bowl streak, no doubt about it, but that could come to an end next year. But can we keep Rod's predecessors in better perspective?
12-26-2018 10:24 AM
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RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-26-2018 10:24 AM)HW58 Wrote:  
(12-26-2018 01:17 AM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(12-25-2018 10:08 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.

Hi Jon. You illustrate the precise reason NIU should be on the hunt for a new coach. The Chiefs and Browns both realized that they had higher ambitions than simply making the playoffs. Both organizations parted ways with a semi-successful coach because they felt he couldn't take the team one step further.

On our smaller scale, that is where we are at. We have a coach that has proven he can be good in our conference, but completely ineffective post-season. Coach Carey has built a program that is solely designed to defeat MAC competition, but can't compete on a national scale.

Coach Novak, Kill, and Doeren all had teams that were nationally ranked. There is virtually no chance whatsoever that NIU gets back to that level under Coach Carey (not counting the team Carey inherited from Doeren that was nationally ranked). I don't think even the staunchest Carey supporter would argue that.

So for me, Jon, to respond to your comment; I would definitely risk the potential of missing post season play with a new coach if it meant there was the possibility of getting back to being a nationally ranked team.

Now the discussion has been elevated to not just winning bowl games like the Boca Raton Bowl, but national rankings! Vegas is right--you shouldn't hang on to a coach because you're afraid of what might happen if you don't. So, if there's a surefire coach out there who can win the MACC, get us ranked and win big bowl games, I'm all in. Go for it! Just like Lance Leipold in Buffalo (oh wait, nevermind). But can we for once give an honest appraisal of Novak, Kill and Doeren since they are the metric used to judge Carey? Novak: rightfully sainted, brought the program to a whole different level, incredible role model. Love Joe Novak. But...in 2003, the year we all speak of with hushed reverence, NIU beat MD, Bama, and Iowa St., got to 7-0, and were ranked as high as 10 in the country. We then lost to BGU and Toledo over our next five games to finish 10-2, not win the MACC, finish unranked, and without a bowl invite. Hmmm...flash to 2013: 12-0, comfortably in the top 25, we lose the MACC and our bowl game to finish 12-2 and ever since people have wanted Rod Carey's head on a pole. I don't see much difference between how 2003 and 2013 ended, but Carey has been hated ever since. Kill: Had great success at NIU over a short period of time with Novak-recruited Harnish. Gets in the rankings, goes to the MACC in his final year, loses to Miami of Ohio, falls out of the rankings, and tells the team via email he's out the door for the Minnesota job. Classy! NIU wins their bowl game despite him (thanks Coach Tuke!). But everyone still talks about Kill like he was the greatest thing since sliced bread. Carey inherited Lynch, and to half the guys on this board that serves as an indicator that he sucks as a coach. Where would Kill have been without Harnish? Doeren: Arguably the best coach NIU has ever had (based on his short time in DeKalb and how he's done since). But another guy who inherited important players: Harnish and then Lynch. Gets the team to the freaking Orange Bowl and bags on NIU before the bowl game. Again, classy! Says he regrets not coaching that game to this day. I'm not saying these guys weren't very good to great coaches--they were. But a lot of the arguments used to elevate them are the same arguments used to knock down Carey. RC has is flaws, for sure. And it's quite possible the program has, indeed, plateaued (next year with Childers a junior and Smith/Scharping off to the pros will be very telling). If the program has, indeed, plateaued or, worse, is going backwards, then it's time to look in a different direction. We are on a crappy bowl streak, no doubt about it, but that could come to an end next year. But can we keep Rod's predecessors in better perspective?

Wasn't BG ranked when we lost to them (on the road) in 2003? And ended the year ranked in at least one poll. Toledo was 8-4 and had beat a ranked team earlier in the year. Much different than losing to a WMU team with little defense and a Miami team that was just so-so this year.

As for Doeren, I generally liked him since we won both the MACC and the bowl game in 2011, and the MACC in 2012 against a ranked Kent State team. It does bother me that he stayed for Wisconsin's Rose Bowl but not for our Orange Bowl. Kill only had one good year and left before the bowl game. I think he was a good coach but it's hard to say what he (or Doeren) would have done without Harnish.

I think we had some team speed back then, guys from Florida for one thing. Where did that go?
12-26-2018 10:45 AM
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Rabid Squirrel Online
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Post: #79
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
(12-26-2018 01:17 AM)VegasHuskie Wrote:  
(12-25-2018 10:08 PM)Huskie_Jon Wrote:  Rod Carey could be NIU's version of Marty Schottenheimer. Marty Schottenheimer took the Browns to the playoffs five years in a row. And then they would lose. They never made it to the Super Bowl. So they fired him. It took them five more years to get back to the playoffs.

Kansas City picked him up and he took the Chiefs to the playoffs 7 times out of 10. They lost each time, so they let him go. The Chiefs did not go back to the playoffs for six more years.

Hiring Marty Schottenheimer means losing in the playoffs. Firing him means staying away from the playoffs.

Having Rod Carey as a head coach means making regular apearances in the MCC and multiple wins over B1G teams, but losing bowl games. Getting rid of him could mean staying out of post season play.

Hi Jon. You illustrate the precise reason NIU should be on the hunt for a new coach. The Chiefs and Browns both realized that they had higher ambitions than simply making the playoffs. Both organizations parted ways with a semi-successful coach because they felt he couldn't take the team one step further.

On our smaller scale, that is where we are at. We have a coach that has proven he can be good in our conference, but completely ineffective post-season. Coach Carey has built a program that is solely designed to defeat MAC competition, but can't compete on a national scale.

Coach Novak, Kill, and Doeren all had teams that were nationally ranked. There is virtually no chance whatsoever that NIU gets back to that level under Coach Carey (not counting the team Carey inherited from Doeren that was nationally ranked). I don't think even the staunchest Carey supporter would argue that.

So for me, Jon, to respond to your comment; I would definitely risk the potential of missing post season play with a new coach if it meant there was the possibility of getting back to being a nationally ranked team.

Think about the teams from the MAC who were nationally ranked. 2003 NIU, 2012 NIU, 2003 Miami, 2009 CMU, 2015 Toledo. What did they all have in common? Superstar players. There is a top half and bottom half to the Mac. Take just about any team in the top half and add a superstar player, usually at qb, and they run the table in the Mac. That’s what it takes For national attention more so than the coach. Put lynch, Big Ben, Lefouver, Turner, Hunt, Nate Davis, Pennington, Leftwich, Harnish, etc. on any top Mac squad and you have the team everyone so desperately wants here. Coach at that point just needs to be good. Not great.
12-26-2018 10:56 AM
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HW58 Online
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Post: #80
RE: Carey Contract Extended Again?
Spot on. And far as we know we don’t have a superstar right now. Most (all?) of our past superstars weren’t recruited as such. They surprised everyone.
12-26-2018 12:02 PM
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