If we're basing rankings off Kenpom like the above poster suggests, here's the rankings.
1) Buffalo
2) Toledo
3) Ball State
4) Akron
5) Kent St
6) NIU
7) Miami
8) Ohio
9) CMU
10) BG
11) EMU
12) WMU
EMU has above average talent with perhaps the worst coaching in all of college basketball. Most of us EMU folks are hoping for a change. That said, Murphy did change the line-up for the last game and that might help get this team going again.
(12-26-2018 05:01 PM)BuckeyeFlyerFlash Wrote: if we go off the NCAA NET rankings as of yesterday:
23 Buffalo
65 Toledo
84 KSU
99 Ball St
138 CMU
147 OU
151 Akron
153 Miami
165 NIU
215 BG
etc
What do you like ... Coke or Pepsi!?!?!?!
Personally- I like regular coke and diet pepsi!! I was just curious on the NET rankings after the Ken Pom posts. Other forums have talked about NET rankings by NCAA being the a new standard vs RPI etc..( It doesnt hurt that NET ranks KSU higher than KPom)!!
(12-25-2018 06:56 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Just no way right now Id feel comfortable ranking Kent ahead of Ball State. Ball State has played a much much much harder schedule than either Toledo or Kent
I think there is no argument, overall, BSU has played a tougher schedule. But at least for me, this season and historically, when Kent has had the chance to beat a P5 team they can compete with, they have done so.
Lots of MAC teams come close ... or get one (Notre Dame) in a good year. But even average Kent teams have beaten average P5 teams.
I think the more accurate question is ... would you rather play Ball State or play Kent? ... Ball State has more size and more talent. But ... I may be wrong, but ... I think most fans would probably rather see their team play BSU than KSU with anything on the line.
So you can be right RANKING Ball ahead of Kent ... I won't argue that. But who do you want to play?
I think we fall into a trap of putting too much stock into wins over a "P5". While the committee probably drools over it, Ball State going into Loyola and absolutely throttling Loyola is just as impressive to me. Id want to play Kent State over Ball State, Ball State is just too efficient offensively. Kent has been mediocre against a lot of bad and mediocre teams. I think Ball State's game is going to transfer over to MAC play much better. Id argue right now Ball State should be ahead of Toledo. Toledo has not ventured outside of Savage much and played many bad teams.
Toledo has played 6 games in Savage and 6 games on the road. 2 of which were neutral
(12-25-2018 06:56 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Just no way right now Id feel comfortable ranking Kent ahead of Ball State. Ball State has played a much much much harder schedule than either Toledo or Kent
I think there is no argument, overall, BSU has played a tougher schedule. But at least for me, this season and historically, when Kent has had the chance to beat a P5 team they can compete with, they have done so.
Lots of MAC teams come close ... or get one (Notre Dame) in a good year. But even average Kent teams have beaten average P5 teams.
I think the more accurate question is ... would you rather play Ball State or play Kent? ... Ball State has more size and more talent. But ... I may be wrong, but ... I think most fans would probably rather see their team play BSU than KSU with anything on the line.
So you can be right RANKING Ball ahead of Kent ... I won't argue that. But who do you want to play?
I think we fall into a trap of putting too much stock into wins over a "P5". While the committee probably drools over it, Ball State going into Loyola and absolutely throttling Loyola is just as impressive to me. Id want to play Kent State over Ball State, Ball State is just too efficient offensively. Kent has been mediocre against a lot of bad and mediocre teams. I think Ball State's game is going to transfer over to MAC play much better. Id argue right now Ball State should be ahead of Toledo. Toledo has not ventured outside of Savage much and played many bad teams.
Toledo has played 6 games in Savage and 6 games on the road. 2 of which were neutral
Toledo has played 1 top 100 team on a neutral court UC Irvine, they played at 2 teams expected to be very good who have been up n down-Marshall and Wright St- and split those 2. they beat sun belt favorite Louisiana convincingly on a neutral court. blew out 2 traditionally strong mid majors-FGCU and Middle Tenn St- who are both down this year. won at oakland by a point. easy wins over half decent cleve st and cornell. easy wins over 3 weak teams at home including detroit. toledo is clearly good against weak-good MAC type comp, can't say how they will hold up to buffalo.
Kent has pulled out a lot of close games. road wins over vandy (bubble) and oregon state (talented but a ???) are strong. home loss to liberty (bubble) not bad. road loss to louisville(ncaa) not bad. close wins over wright st, cleve state and detroit. 4 easy wins over weak teams at home. they've shown they can step up in big games. consistency vs solid mac teams TBD
so, on paper i'd give kent an edge in competition, but toledo has beaten teams more soundly. the toledo-penn game will tell us a lot as they are similar to liberty as a mid major that plays like a bubble team.
ball st has lost by an average of 12 points to virginia tech (ncaa team) and purdue and alabama (bubble teams). 2 of those were neutral courts, one on the road. road wins over solid valley teams loyola 6 pts and valpo 16 are pretty good. split w evansville. big home win over a pretty good indiana st team. close neutral win over app st. 10 pt road win over iupui. 2 easy home wins over weak teams. so, their play vs mid majors/mac type comp holds up well to kent and toledo but the fact they are 0-3 vs good P5 comp, and none of those went 40 minutes sets them back a little, especially since kent has 2 P5 road wins.
CMU is really the mystery team. no notable wins but sits 10-2 with only a 2 pt neutral loss to a solid weber st team and a road pounding at top 15 TCU.
The term "P5" doesn't mean much to me this year because your top half MAC teams are about as good as your average P5. The whole conference is elevated and wins against middle to bottom level P5 teams should not be considered huge wins, or at least no more important than the top half MAC teams beating themselves in conference play.
(This post was last modified: 12-28-2018 02:30 AM by MaddDawgz02.)
(12-25-2018 06:56 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: Just no way right now Id feel comfortable ranking Kent ahead of Ball State. Ball State has played a much much much harder schedule than either Toledo or Kent
I think there is no argument, overall, BSU has played a tougher schedule. But at least for me, this season and historically, when Kent has had the chance to beat a P5 team they can compete with, they have done so.
Lots of MAC teams come close ... or get one (Notre Dame) in a good year. But even average Kent teams have beaten average P5 teams.
I think the more accurate question is ... would you rather play Ball State or play Kent? ... Ball State has more size and more talent. But ... I may be wrong, but ... I think most fans would probably rather see their team play BSU than KSU with anything on the line.
So you can be right RANKING Ball ahead of Kent ... I won't argue that. But who do you want to play?
I think we fall into a trap of putting too much stock into wins over a "P5". While the committee probably drools over it, Ball State going into Loyola and absolutely throttling Loyola is just as impressive to me. Id want to play Kent State over Ball State, Ball State is just too efficient offensively. Kent has been mediocre against a lot of bad and mediocre teams. I think Ball State's game is going to transfer over to MAC play much better. Id argue right now Ball State should be ahead of Toledo. Toledo has not ventured outside of Savage much and played many bad teams.
Toledo has played 6 games in Savage and 6 games on the road. 2 of which were neutral
Toledo has played 1 top 100 team on a neutral court UC Irvine, they played at 2 teams expected to be very good who have been up n down-Marshall and Wright St- and split those 2. they beat sun belt favorite Louisiana convincingly on a neutral court. blew out 2 traditionally strong mid majors-FGCU and Middle Tenn St- who are both down this year. won at oakland by a point. easy wins over half decent cleve st and cornell. easy wins over 3 weak teams at home including detroit. toledo is clearly good against weak-good MAC type comp, can't say how they will hold up to buffalo.
Kent has pulled out a lot of close games. road wins over vandy (bubble) and oregon state (talented but a ???) are strong. home loss to liberty (bubble) not bad. road loss to louisville(ncaa) not bad. close wins over wright st, cleve state and detroit. 4 easy wins over weak teams at home. they've shown they can step up in big games. consistency vs solid mac teams TBD
so, on paper i'd give kent an edge in competition, but toledo has beaten teams more soundly. the toledo-penn game will tell us a lot as they are similar to liberty as a mid major that plays like a bubble team.
ball st has lost by an average of 12 points to virginia tech (ncaa team) and purdue and alabama (bubble teams). 2 of those were neutral courts, one on the road. road wins over solid valley teams loyola 6 pts and valpo 16 are pretty good. split w evansville. big home win over a pretty good indiana st team. close neutral win over app st. 10 pt road win over iupui. 2 easy home wins over weak teams. so, their play vs mid majors/mac type comp holds up well to kent and toledo but the fact they are 0-3 vs good P5 comp, and none of those went 40 minutes sets them back a little, especially since kent has 2 P5 road wins.
CMU is really the mystery team. no notable wins but sits 10-2 with only a 2 pt neutral loss to a solid weber st team and a road pounding at top 15 TCU.
CMU IMO will finish 7th-8th in the MAC. CMU always runs up its win total by playing the weakest OOC schedule it can make then proceeds to finish with a losing record in the MAC. KenPom currently has their OOC schedule ranked 348th out of 353 teams.
I'm starting to believe in Toledo enough to think the Rockets have a decent shot at winning the league, if they can split the two games with the Bulls.
The Rockets two Cleveland kids (Jackson and Jackson) are both huge mis-match problems for the entire league, meaning the headliners will have plenty of room to operate.
And just curious if it's me, or is there a tougher team in the league to get a true read on than Kent State? Are they No. 4 or No. 8???
1. Buffalo
1a. Toledo
3. Ball State
4. Kent State
4a Ohio
6. Akron
7. CMU
8. EMU
9. Miami
10. BG
11 NIU
12 WMU
And while their record is awful ... still think EMU rises somewhat from the ashes.
MAC is a guard driven league. Kent is very strong in the backcourt so I don't see them slipping past 4th or 5th. CMU also good in the backcourt. I think Ohio and Miami will struggle because their backcourt play is not as strong. Ball State's weakness is not having a second perimeter playmaker to complement Persons.
(12-30-2018 04:43 PM)pono Wrote: MAC is a guard driven league. ... Ball State's weakness is not having a second perimeter playmaker to complement Persons.
May I introduce you to KJ Walton and his 15ppg average, D1 leading (for a guard) 60% FG percentage and 45" vertical?
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2018 08:18 PM by pennies4everybody.)
(12-30-2018 04:43 PM)pono Wrote: MAC is a guard driven league. ... Ball State's weakness is not having a second perimeter playmaker to complement Persons.
May I introduce you to KJ Walton and his 15ppg average, D1 leading (for a guard) 60% FG percentage and 45" vertical?
seen ball st play 4 times. twice walton was fairly awful, once he was decent, once he was very good. maybe, his game is finding its groove. the vertical thing is fun but i'm more interested in if he can make jump shots, play d and not turn the ball over. definitely looks the part but will need to outplay some very good guards from UB, kent, toledo and cmu to make an impact
