(12-12-2018 12:30 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  there pro's & con's to 10 schools
less inventory
2 division races
markets
recuriting area
less exporsure
i would think B-12 would be intrested in state schools
Buffalo & Conn, and presence in NYC to boot

True, there are pluses and minuses. But without a conference based network, markets and inventory are not as big a deal than when you have one. Big 12's national value is based on the blue bloods and having consistent quality (ranked) teams. The Big 12 is in a fertile recruiting area, so expanding into fertile areas less a big deal.

(12-11-2018 05:26 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  The B12 stays competitive because it’s splitting a 12 team pie only 10 ways

Go back to 12 and suddenly they are the back of the pack with the PAC in terms of least profitable conference

Plus it amplifies UT and OUs problem of being in a conference full of Teams It’s Not Okay To Lose To

IOW it doesn’t matter if ISU or KSU or TTU are having great years, they are TINOTLT and will destroy your chance at the playoff. Every conference has a few of these teams but the B12 is full of them and the U_F schools would be 2 more. That’s just reality.

Sounds like you are just freighted of more competition.

UCF should bring value to the Big 12 because it gives teams a Florida game in a destination city. It is very easy to justify traveling to Orlando for a football game and theme parks. Furthermore, Orlando is a market that the Big 12 has no current representation in outside of scattered UT fans.

The actual problem I see is there is no one to partner UCF with. I can't think of any team that would add value like UCF could.

Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

$12 for tickets to UCF in the Fiesta Bowl. That is all you need to know about the UCF fan base. It doesn't exist 2 or 3 hours drive from Orlando

Atlanta is more than 2 to 3 hours from Orlando.

Sent from my SM-J727T1 using Tapatalk

(12-12-2018 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

Fretting about a school's name (directional or city) in 2018-2019 is like deciding not to buy an otherwise very nice house available for below market value because you don't like the ugly wallpaper in the 3rd bedroom.

Its all about whether those schools can deliver eyeballs and be competitive.

(12-12-2018 02:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  $12 for tickets to UCF in the Fiesta Bowl. That is all you need to know about the UCF fan base. It doesn't exist 2 or 3 hours drive from Orlando

If it were Miami vs LSU the tickets would be the same price.

Two southern teams playing in ARIZONA on News Years day. If this were the Peach Bowl or the Cotton bowl those tickets would be much more expensive.

(12-12-2018 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

Let the envy ooze my friend. Yes....Yes...

(12-12-2018 03:36 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

Let the envy ooze my friend. Yes....Yes...

There’s no envy. I wish them and our former conference mates the best. Over ten years ago, I kept saying UCF was about to become a factor in athletics and they had a good chance in getting a call to the Big East. ECU and Memphis fans disagreed with me. The same way I felt about UCF back then is how I feel now about Old Dominion. That’s the C-USA school to keep an eye on. If it was up to me, I’d have UCF and Cincinnati in the Big XII. But I’m just a message board poster. I will be rooting for UCF in the Fiesta. Just like I did last year and for any G5 that has made it to the BCS and NY6.

Don’t confuse being realistic with “envy”.

(12-12-2018 03:45 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 03:36 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

Let the envy ooze my friend. Yes....Yes...

There’s no envy. I wish them and our former conference mates the best. Over ten years ago, I kept saying UCF was about to become a factor in athletics and they had a good chance in getting a call to the Big East. ECU and Memphis fans disagreed with me. The same way I felt about UCF back then is how I feel now about Old Dominion. That’s the C-USA school to keep an eye on. If it was up to me, I’d have UCF and Cincinnati in the Big XII. But I’m just a message board poster. I will be rooting for UCF in the Fiesta. Just like I did last year and for any G5 that has made it to the BCS and NY6.

Don’t confuse being realistic with “envy”.

Normally I’d agree with you but the ACC took Louisville...
However the big 12 passed on Louisville so..
Hard to say

(12-12-2018 11:41 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:28 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:02 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 10:08 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 09:40 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

As usual Mandel is wrong.

UCF hasn't had anywhere near the amount of sustained success that Utah and TCU had prior to being called up.

TCU had had double digit wins in the four seasons prior to moving to the Big XII, and had had winning seasons 9 out of the previous 10 years.

Utah had double digit win seasons in the previous three and hadn't had a losing season in nine years.

Utah (MWC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 2
Wins: 2
#of coaches: 2

TCU (MWC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 2
Wins: 1
#of coaches: 1

UCF (AAC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 3
Wins: 2 and playing this year
#of coaches: 3

The main thing wrong with this comparison is that the top rated G-5 school did not have an automatic spot in the BCS-NY6 Bowl games until TCU and Utah had left the MWC/CUSA/WAC etc.

True but even then the Knights make it to a BCS game last year and this year as they were top 12.

“The Highest ranked non AQ school within the top 12 ( or top 16 if a bcs conference champ is ranked lower than 16) gets an auto-bid to a bcs bowl. If there are other non-aq schools also ranked that high they become an at large team.”

The WAC took most of the NY6 bowls since 2005. Boise State had the most, and Hawaii had 1. The WAC was in much better shape getting the Fiesta Bowl almost every year. One year, it was TCU vs Boise State in the Fiesta Bowl where Boise State beat TCU.

(12-12-2018 03:26 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

Fretting about a school's name (directional or city) in 2018-2019 is like deciding not to buy an otherwise very nice house available for below market value because you don't like the ugly wallpaper in the 3rd bedroom.

Its all about whether those schools can deliver eyeballs and be competitive.

Tell that to the university presidents and chancellors. You know, the ones who decide these things. Tell exactly the same thing to the University of Texas at Austin which is perhaps the most powerful athletic department in the nation. One thing is to take a flagship school from a poor state with not so great academics (WVU) and another thing is to take a directional school even if it’s in a destination city. It’s not just in the P5. The Sun Belt said no to Liberty. That really tells you how perception is still a thing in academia. Like Frank the Tank says, “think like a school president.”

I agree with what you’re saying but sadly, university presidents are dinasours who are still stuck in the past. It’ll take another generation or two for presidents to be more inclusive on theacademic and athletic side.

(12-12-2018 07:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:41 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:28 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:02 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 10:08 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  As usual Mandel is wrong.

UCF hasn't had anywhere near the amount of sustained success that Utah and TCU had prior to being called up.

TCU had had double digit wins in the four seasons prior to moving to the Big XII, and had had winning seasons 9 out of the previous 10 years.

Utah had double digit win seasons in the previous three and hadn't had a losing season in nine years.

Utah (MWC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 2
Wins: 2
#of coaches: 2

TCU (MWC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 2
Wins: 1
#of coaches: 1

UCF (AAC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 3
Wins: 2 and playing this year
#of coaches: 3

The main thing wrong with this comparison is that the top rated G-5 school did not have an automatic spot in the BCS-NY6 Bowl games until TCU and Utah had left the MWC/CUSA/WAC etc.

True but even then the Knights make it to a BCS game last year and this year as they were top 12.

“The Highest ranked non AQ school within the top 12 ( or top 16 if a bcs conference champ is ranked lower than 16) gets an auto-bid to a bcs bowl. If there are other non-aq schools also ranked that high they become an at large team.”

The WAC took most of the NY6 bowls since 2005. Boise State had the most, and Hawaii had 1. The WAC was in much better shape getting the Fiesta Bowl almost every year. One year, it was TCU vs Boise State in the Fiesta Bowl where Boise State beat TCU.

Why are you leaving 2004 Utah out? It’s not accurate to say the WAC was in better shape to get the Fiesta when the MWC was the stronger conference and the WAC was seen as Boise and the 8 dwarfs.

In the BCS era, the MWC had four, the WAC three and the MAC one.

Utah (‘04, ‘08)
TCU (‘09, ‘10)
Boise State (‘06, ‘09)
Hawaii (‘07)
Northern Illinois (‘11)

UCF in 2013 was an AQ using the Big East’s autobid in the final year of the BCS. They don’t count as a nonAQ rep.

The nonAQs had a 5-3 record with Utah and Boise going 2-0 each.

In the CFP era, the AAC has three reps, the MWC and MAC one.

Boise State (‘14)
Western Michigan (‘15)
Houston (‘16)
UCF (‘17, ‘18)

So far the G5’s are 3-1 in NY6 bowls. Hopefully 4-1 in a few weeks.

(12-12-2018 06:50 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 03:45 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 03:36 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

Let the envy ooze my friend. Yes....Yes...

There’s no envy. I wish them and our former conference mates the best. Over ten years ago, I kept saying UCF was about to become a factor in athletics and they had a good chance in getting a call to the Big East. ECU and Memphis fans disagreed with me. The same way I felt about UCF back then is how I feel now about Old Dominion. That’s the C-USA school to keep an eye on. If it was up to me, I’d have UCF and Cincinnati in the Big XII. But I’m just a message board poster. I will be rooting for UCF in the Fiesta. Just like I did last year and for any G5 that has made it to the BCS and NY6.

Don’t confuse being realistic with “envy”.

Normally I’d agree with you but the ACC took Louisville...
However the big 12 passed on Louisville so..
Hard to say

From what I remember reading here (you were on these boards back then too) the ACC took Louisville over UConn to not upset Clemson and Florida State who didn’t want another basketball school watering down football and were sending signals about being interested in talking to the Big XII.

Louisville was a compromise addition to keep the ACC together (the GOR was signed later). No such scenario currently exists in the Big XII where X and Y school need to be added in order to satisfy the football side of the conference, as it happened in 2011. They’re doing fine in football. Same in basketball. That’s why I don’t think the Big XII will expand. Unless Texas decides they’re tired of dictating terms and be a team player (unlikely ) in another conference. That’s where the U_F twins, Cincinnati among others can satisfy the football side of the conference and try to stabilize it.

(12-12-2018 03:12 PM)curtis0620 Wrote:  Atlanta is more than 2 to 3 hours from Orlando.

Not by air ... by air it's just two hours ... an hour and a half waiting to take off, twenty minutes in the air and ten minutes taxiing to the terminal in Orlando.

Edit: oops, FROM Orlando. That's even quicker by air ... it's only 2-3 hours on the return flight.

(12-12-2018 08:34 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 07:43 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:41 AM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:28 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 11:02 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  Utah (MWC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 2
Wins: 2
#of coaches: 2

TCU (MWC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 2
Wins: 1
#of coaches: 1

UCF (AAC)
BCS/NY6 Appearances: 3
Wins: 2 and playing this year
#of coaches: 3

The main thing wrong with this comparison is that the top rated G-5 school did not have an automatic spot in the BCS-NY6 Bowl games until TCU and Utah had left the MWC/CUSA/WAC etc.

True but even then the Knights make it to a BCS game last year and this year as they were top 12.

“The Highest ranked non AQ school within the top 12 ( or top 16 if a bcs conference champ is ranked lower than 16) gets an auto-bid to a bcs bowl. If there are other non-aq schools also ranked that high they become an at large team.”

The WAC took most of the NY6 bowls since 2005. Boise State had the most, and Hawaii had 1. The WAC was in much better shape getting the Fiesta Bowl almost every year. One year, it was TCU vs Boise State in the Fiesta Bowl where Boise State beat TCU.

Why are you leaving 2004 Utah out? It’s not accurate to say the WAC was in better shape to get the Fiesta when the MWC was the stronger conference and the WAC was seen as Boise and the 8 dwarfs.

In the BCS era, the MWC had four, the WAC three and the MAC one.

Utah (‘04, ‘08)
TCU (‘09, ‘10)
Boise State (‘06, ‘09)
Hawaii (‘07)
Northern Illinois (‘11)

UCF in 2013 was an AQ using the Big East’s autobid in the final year of the BCS. They don’t count as a nonAQ rep.

The nonAQs had a 5-3 record with Utah and Boise going 2-0 each.

In the CFP era, the AAC has three reps, the MWC and MAC one.

Boise State (‘14)
Western Michigan (‘15)
Houston (‘16)
UCF (‘17, ‘18)

So far the G5’s are 3-1 in NY6 bowls. Hopefully 4-1 in a few weeks.

1 of those years, the WAC had a 3 way tie for 1st.
Boise State, UNR and Hawaii
All 3 were ranked at the end of the regular season. Fresno State was in the Top 30. I think TCU was the lone MWC in the standings at the time. Uath and BYU were hot and cold that time period. The rest of the MWC were not holding up their end. Since the WAC schools joined? Who dominated the MWC? Boise State, UNR, Utah State and Fresno State. All former WAC members. Boise State and Fresno State both winning the MWC titles.

(12-12-2018 03:45 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 03:36 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 02:30 PM)UTEPDallas Wrote:  Two things:

The Big XII expansion starts and ends with Texas. What Bevo wants is what they get. As it was the case last year, Texas err the Big XII decided expansion was not worth it, got their CCG with 10 teams and has made it to the CFP four years out of five. Expanding with G5 schools just because they’re the flavor of the month or are in a destination city won’t do anything, zero, zilch, nada to them.

Nobody is addressing the big elephant in the room: the U_F twins directional names. No P5 has one (USC and Northwestern don’t count and they’re elite private schools) and the Big XII will not embarrass themselves more by adding those two or any G5 school for that matter. Because they don’t need to. Things are working perfectly fine in the Big XII. They’re getting paid big money, Texas rules the conference, Oklahoma is making the playoffs for four years in a row, Kansas is still a blue blood in basketball, West Virginia has exceeded the expectations, the other schools are competitive and they got their CCG without expanding.

Let the envy ooze my friend. Yes....Yes...

There’s no envy. I wish them and our former conference mates the best. Over ten years ago, I kept saying UCF was about to become a factor in athletics and they had a good chance in getting a call to the Big East. ECU and Memphis fans disagreed with me. The same way I felt about UCF back then is how I feel now about Old Dominion. That’s the C-USA school to keep an eye on. If it was up to me, I’d have UCF and Cincinnati in the Big XII. But I’m just a message board poster. I will be rooting for UCF in the Fiesta. Just like I did last year and for any G5 that has made it to the BCS and NY6.

Don’t confuse being realistic with “envy”.

I agree that the directional names are part of what is holding both UCF and USF back. I would much prefer to be affiliated with the University of Florida - Orlando. Combine the institutional name change with a reversion to the original mascot and you’ve got a helluva moniker —- I defy anyone to disrespect the UFO Citronauts!

(12-12-2018 03:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 02:45 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  $12 for tickets to UCF in the Fiesta Bowl. That is all you need to know about the UCF fan base. It doesn't exist 2 or 3 hours drive from Orlando

If it were Miami vs LSU the tickets would be the same price.

Two southern teams playing in ARIZONA on News Years day. If this were the Peach Bowl or the Cotton bowl those tickets would be much more expensive.

Well, I don't get the emphasis on 'southern', but Ohio State vs Notre Dame drew a massive Fiesta crowd three years ago.

That said, of course the logical matchups from all angles were UCF vs Florida in the Peach and Michigan vs LSU in the Fiesta.

But the Peach had zero desire to host UCF again.

(12-13-2018 09:32 AM)ArmoredUpKnight Wrote:  3 in the last 5 years... with 3 different coaches.

Rebuilding year, what’s that?

It's actually been 3 in 6 seasons, but since when is being able to count needed to attend UCF?

Anyway, two of those NY6 bids were gifts via the G5 auto-process, so you can't compare UCF's number of NY6 bids to that of P5 teams.

As for rebuilding, what does 2015 count as? I get it - you have to win a game to count it as a 'rebuild'.