The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(12-23-2018 09:58 PM)Rasser Wrote:  

(12-23-2018 06:00 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(12-23-2018 05:26 PM)RunningGame Wrote:  

(12-23-2018 05:21 PM)GullLake Wrote:  Gads!

This, again?!

Fleck left because it was time. He was never going to be able to achieve another 2016 again at WMU - or any G5 program. It was time to move. And as upsetting and narcissistic as his departure was, it was no worse than what Coaches like Mark Dantonio and Brian Kelly have done. It's the norm and the ugly nature of the business.

Clearly, the loss of our 5th year senior QB and top receiver(s) was a gash that could not be immediately replaced, combined with the fact it was going to be a transition year no matter who was hired to coach. But Fleck did leave talent. Enough for 8-9 wins in 2017. Unfortunately, a plethora of injuries got in the way. And, yes, some poor coaching decisions too (see not throwing to wide open RBs against MSU's weak outside LBs). That left WMU at 6-6. Sigh.

2018 was marginally better with injuries again being a factor...along with some poor coaching decisions (going for it at BSU and WTF up-the-middle calls in key situations against BYU).

Through all this, Lester has recruited well, v-e-r-y well.

I am confident WMU and Lester will experience a break-through in 2019. It may not be a MAC Championship, but there will be no blow-out losses (Sparty's gonna sweat and struggle) and we will be proud of this football team.

If WMU has another mediocre, or worse, year in 2019, KB has a decision to make.

Fleck stayed for the bowl game, which is great. Stealing so many recruits was douchebaggery. If he didn’t, Minnesota wouldn’t be much different today and he could ride off into the sunset as a hero.

At the very least Minnesota likely wouldn't have made a bowl this year without Tanner Morgan who played admirably at QB when their starter went out.

It is what it is. I wish we could have kept those recruits, but Fleck is being paid something like 3+M to win elsewhere. He chose to take them with him and some are helping there. It sullied his reputation with WMU fans (as did some other stuff) but I doubt he cares about that.

And none of this has anything to do with the point that the replacement hiring was a sham.

According to him, that 3M was a pay cut.

Glad he’s gone, that style of self serving bs catches up with a person. Ask Trump.

It would have here, and is in Minny. His recruiting was 8th in the B1G. Almost MAC levels except he had some four stars that might be lower had they gone to MAC level schools.

The Lester hire will pan out. You guys are being overly nasty because he’s not Fleck. It’s going to end up juuuust fine long term. I like Tim’s upside.

1) "Ask Trump" or Hillary Clinton. Had the Democrats not been stupid enough to nominate her (so how did highly confidential and classified emails end up on ANDREW WEINER'S computer...the same computer he sent images of himself on to porn stars?!?) we would not be talking about Trump, the moron, now.

2) No. They are being nasty because Lester does not have on-the-field results. Fleck did, like him or not. "MAC Champions 2016" and a 3-1 record vs CMU says it all,

3) MAC students and graduates loyal to their alma maters, and league, should always cheer against Pig10 programs. Watching Pig10 teams lose bowl games is a joy and in the best interests of MAC programs.

4) I agree Lester and WMU will end up "...juuuust fine long term" and that will become clear in 2019 (the great recruiting starts to pay off). If not, KB has to look at the "long term" and decide whether Tim has the "upside" you speak of and I agree with. Time for Lester to move on from mediocrity and show tangible results on-the-field.

5) Merry Christmas!

I don't understand this claim that Lester will do better once his great recruiting classes start to pan out. Western had stronger classes in the several years prior to lesters arrival, and he inherited tremendous players, but still had very below-average seasons with those players. It is his style of coaching that is killing us. Both during the games, and in the weeks between the games. He makes stupid decisions, both administratively, strategically, and philosophically. In the two years he has been here he has had players on the team who are more than capable of winning this league, which has been particularly weak since he got here. To suggest he is lacking in player talent is preposterous.

During and after Lester's first year folks kept saying give him another year, just give him another year. So he got another year to prove himself, and we saw Western get to a bowl game, but only barely, and we also had to watch them get destroyed embarrassingly in 5 games. And the other loss was to a very bad team. We can keep saying just give him another year, but in the meantime we will continue to watch the same thing happening over and over again.

Has Lester changed anything to improve the results on the field? The same thing we were complaining about last year are the things we were complaining about this season. What makes anyone think that he is ever going to change anything? Did Cubit ever change anything during his tenure? I don't know why anyone thinks the fact that he let one of his buddies go from the staff means much. Lester himself needs to change. His whole style. His whole philosophy. His whole attitude. But the reality is, Lester is who he is. And what he isn't is a good head coach.

(12-24-2018 09:43 AM)brovol Wrote:  I don't understand this claim that Lester will do better once his great recruiting classes start to pan out. Western had stronger classes in the several years prior to lesters arrival, and he inherited tremendous players, but still had very below-average seasons with those players. It is his style of coaching that is killing us. Both during the games, and in the weeks between the games. He makes stupid decisions, both administratively, strategically, and philosophically. In the two years he has been here he has had players on the team who are more than capable of winning this league, which has been particularly weak since he got here. To suggest he is lacking in player talent is preposterous.

During and after Lester's first year folks kept saying give him another year, just give him another year. So he got another year to prove himself, and we saw Western get to a bowl game, but only barely, and we also had to watch them get destroyed embarrassingly in 5 games. And the other loss was to a very bad team. We can keep saying just give him another year, but in the meantime we will continue to watch the same thing happening over and over again.

Has Lester changed anything to improve the results on the field? The same thing we were complaining about last year are the things we were complaining about this season. What makes anyone think that he is ever going to change anything? Did Cubit ever change anything during his tenure? I don't know why anyone thinks the fact that he let one of his buddies go from the staff means much. Lester himself needs to change. His whole style. His whole philosophy. His whole attitude. But the reality is, Lester is who he is. And what he isn't is a good head coach.

Gopherhole.com is having the exact same discussions. Right down to inheriting a winning program and not winning, terrible losses, giving the coach time, and not being a good coach. Is that a thing? I’m starting to feel like it’s a thing.

(12-24-2018 11:56 AM)Rasser Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:43 AM)brovol Wrote:  I don't understand this claim that Lester will do better once his great recruiting classes start to pan out. Western had stronger classes in the several years prior to lesters arrival, and he inherited tremendous players, but still had very below-average seasons with those players. It is his style of coaching that is killing us. Both during the games, and in the weeks between the games. He makes stupid decisions, both administratively, strategically, and philosophically. In the two years he has been here he has had players on the team who are more than capable of winning this league, which has been particularly weak since he got here. To suggest he is lacking in player talent is preposterous.

During and after Lester's first year folks kept saying give him another year, just give him another year. So he got another year to prove himself, and we saw Western get to a bowl game, but only barely, and we also had to watch them get destroyed embarrassingly in 5 games. And the other loss was to a very bad team. We can keep saying just give him another year, but in the meantime we will continue to watch the same thing happening over and over again.

Has Lester changed anything to improve the results on the field? The same thing we were complaining about last year are the things we were complaining about this season. What makes anyone think that he is ever going to change anything? Did Cubit ever change anything during his tenure? I don't know why anyone thinks the fact that he let one of his buddies go from the staff means much. Lester himself needs to change. His whole style. His whole philosophy. His whole attitude. But the reality is, Lester is who he is. And what he isn't is a good head coach.

Gopherhole.com is having the exact same discussions. Right down to inheriting a winning program and not winning, terrible losses, giving the coach time, and not being a good coach. Is that a thing? I’m starting to feel like it’s a thing.

Why are you reading a Minnesota board and why are we supposed to give a ****?

(12-24-2018 12:31 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 11:56 AM)Rasser Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:43 AM)brovol Wrote:  I don't understand this claim that Lester will do better once his great recruiting classes start to pan out. Western had stronger classes in the several years prior to lesters arrival, and he inherited tremendous players, but still had very below-average seasons with those players. It is his style of coaching that is killing us. Both during the games, and in the weeks between the games. He makes stupid decisions, both administratively, strategically, and philosophically. In the two years he has been here he has had players on the team who are more than capable of winning this league, which has been particularly weak since he got here. To suggest he is lacking in player talent is preposterous.

During and after Lester's first year folks kept saying give him another year, just give him another year. So he got another year to prove himself, and we saw Western get to a bowl game, but only barely, and we also had to watch them get destroyed embarrassingly in 5 games. And the other loss was to a very bad team. We can keep saying just give him another year, but in the meantime we will continue to watch the same thing happening over and over again.

Has Lester changed anything to improve the results on the field? The same thing we were complaining about last year are the things we were complaining about this season. What makes anyone think that he is ever going to change anything? Did Cubit ever change anything during his tenure? I don't know why anyone thinks the fact that he let one of his buddies go from the staff means much. Lester himself needs to change. His whole style. His whole philosophy. His whole attitude. But the reality is, Lester is who he is. And what he isn't is a good head coach.

Gopherhole.com is having the exact same discussions. Right down to inheriting a winning program and not winning, terrible losses, giving the coach time, and not being a good coach. Is that a thing? I’m starting to feel like it’s a thing.

Why are you reading a Minnesota board and why are we supposed to give a ****?

Obsession

(12-24-2018 12:49 PM)PezKingGL1 Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 12:31 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 11:56 AM)Rasser Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:43 AM)brovol Wrote:  I don't understand this claim that Lester will do better once his great recruiting classes start to pan out. Western had stronger classes in the several years prior to lesters arrival, and he inherited tremendous players, but still had very below-average seasons with those players. It is his style of coaching that is killing us. Both during the games, and in the weeks between the games. He makes stupid decisions, both administratively, strategically, and philosophically. In the two years he has been here he has had players on the team who are more than capable of winning this league, which has been particularly weak since he got here. To suggest he is lacking in player talent is preposterous.

During and after Lester's first year folks kept saying give him another year, just give him another year. So he got another year to prove himself, and we saw Western get to a bowl game, but only barely, and we also had to watch them get destroyed embarrassingly in 5 games. And the other loss was to a very bad team. We can keep saying just give him another year, but in the meantime we will continue to watch the same thing happening over and over again.

Has Lester changed anything to improve the results on the field? The same thing we were complaining about last year are the things we were complaining about this season. What makes anyone think that he is ever going to change anything? Did Cubit ever change anything during his tenure? I don't know why anyone thinks the fact that he let one of his buddies go from the staff means much. Lester himself needs to change. His whole style. His whole philosophy. His whole attitude. But the reality is, Lester is who he is. And what he isn't is a good head coach.

Gopherhole.com is having the exact same discussions. Right down to inheriting a winning program and not winning, terrible losses, giving the coach time, and not being a good coach. Is that a thing? I’m starting to feel like it’s a thing.

Why are you reading a Minnesota board and why are we supposed to give a ****?

Obsession

More than obsession. Randy has some real genuine issues which he struggles with. Thus, having so many ID's going, even simultaneously, after being repeatedly banned. He has a stalker type fixation on Fleck, and has all the symptoms of a weird man crush. Honestly though, what kind of a person gets banned from a web forum eight or more times and still spends ten hours a day posting by using new made up ID's? It is so sad and pathetic to be worthy of prayer. So let's all say one, and hope for wellness soon. We are here for you Randy! God bless!

(12-24-2018 01:22 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 12:49 PM)PezKingGL1 Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 12:31 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 11:56 AM)Rasser Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:43 AM)brovol Wrote:  I don't understand this claim that Lester will do better once his great recruiting classes start to pan out. Western had stronger classes in the several years prior to lesters arrival, and he inherited tremendous players, but still had very below-average seasons with those players. It is his style of coaching that is killing us. Both during the games, and in the weeks between the games. He makes stupid decisions, both administratively, strategically, and philosophically. In the two years he has been here he has had players on the team who are more than capable of winning this league, which has been particularly weak since he got here. To suggest he is lacking in player talent is preposterous.

During and after Lester's first year folks kept saying give him another year, just give him another year. So he got another year to prove himself, and we saw Western get to a bowl game, but only barely, and we also had to watch them get destroyed embarrassingly in 5 games. And the other loss was to a very bad team. We can keep saying just give him another year, but in the meantime we will continue to watch the same thing happening over and over again.

Has Lester changed anything to improve the results on the field? The same thing we were complaining about last year are the things we were complaining about this season. What makes anyone think that he is ever going to change anything? Did Cubit ever change anything during his tenure? I don't know why anyone thinks the fact that he let one of his buddies go from the staff means much. Lester himself needs to change. His whole style. His whole philosophy. His whole attitude. But the reality is, Lester is who he is. And what he isn't is a good head coach.

Gopherhole.com is having the exact same discussions. Right down to inheriting a winning program and not winning, terrible losses, giving the coach time, and not being a good coach. Is that a thing? I’m starting to feel like it’s a thing.

Why are you reading a Minnesota board and why are we supposed to give a ****?

Obsession

More than obsession. Randy has some real genuine issues which he struggles with. Thus, having so many ID's going, even simultaneously, after being repeatedly banned. He has a stalker type fixation on Fleck, and has all the symptoms of a weird man crush. Honestly though, what kind of a person gets banned from a web forum eight or more times and still spends ten hours a day posting by using new made up ID's? It is so sad and pathetic to be worthy of prayer. So let's all say one, and hope for wellness soon. We are here for you Randy! God bless!

'Tis the season. I would've bought Randy a beer in Boise but I guess he couldn't drag himself up there. Sad!

(12-24-2018 01:22 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 12:49 PM)PezKingGL1 Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 12:31 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 11:56 AM)Rasser Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 09:43 AM)brovol Wrote:  I don't understand this claim that Lester will do better once his great recruiting classes start to pan out. Western had stronger classes in the several years prior to lesters arrival, and he inherited tremendous players, but still had very below-average seasons with those players. It is his style of coaching that is killing us. Both during the games, and in the weeks between the games. He makes stupid decisions, both administratively, strategically, and philosophically. In the two years he has been here he has had players on the team who are more than capable of winning this league, which has been particularly weak since he got here. To suggest he is lacking in player talent is preposterous.

During and after Lester's first year folks kept saying give him another year, just give him another year. So he got another year to prove himself, and we saw Western get to a bowl game, but only barely, and we also had to watch them get destroyed embarrassingly in 5 games. And the other loss was to a very bad team. We can keep saying just give him another year, but in the meantime we will continue to watch the same thing happening over and over again.

Has Lester changed anything to improve the results on the field? The same thing we were complaining about last year are the things we were complaining about this season. What makes anyone think that he is ever going to change anything? Did Cubit ever change anything during his tenure? I don't know why anyone thinks the fact that he let one of his buddies go from the staff means much. Lester himself needs to change. His whole style. His whole philosophy. His whole attitude. But the reality is, Lester is who he is. And what he isn't is a good head coach.

Gopherhole.com is having the exact same discussions. Right down to inheriting a winning program and not winning, terrible losses, giving the coach time, and not being a good coach. Is that a thing? I’m starting to feel like it’s a thing.

Why are you reading a Minnesota board and why are we supposed to give a ****?

Obsession

More than obsession. Randy has some real genuine issues which he struggles with. Thus, having so many ID's going, even simultaneously, after being repeatedly banned. He has a stalker type fixation on Fleck, and has all the symptoms of a weird man crush. Honestly though, what kind of a person gets banned from a web forum eight or more times and still spends ten hours a day posting by using new made up ID's? It is so sad and pathetic to be worthy of prayer. So let's all say one, and hope for wellness soon. We are here for you Randy! God bless!

Guys,

It's Christmas. Can't we all just get along? Everyone here is a WMU fan. The past is the past. Rasser is a die hard fan and wants the best for all Broncos sports. Go Broncos!

(12-24-2018 03:05 PM)WMU2013 Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 01:22 PM)brovol Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 12:49 PM)PezKingGL1 Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 12:31 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(12-24-2018 11:56 AM)Rasser Wrote:  Gopherhole.com is having the exact same discussions. Right down to inheriting a winning program and not winning, terrible losses, giving the coach time, and not being a good coach. Is that a thing? I’m starting to feel like it’s a thing.

Why are you reading a Minnesota board and why are we supposed to give a ****?

Obsession

More than obsession. Randy has some real genuine issues which he struggles with. Thus, having so many ID's going, even simultaneously, after being repeatedly banned. He has a stalker type fixation on Fleck, and has all the symptoms of a weird man crush. Honestly though, what kind of a person gets banned from a web forum eight or more times and still spends ten hours a day posting by using new made up ID's? It is so sad and pathetic to be worthy of prayer. So let's all say one, and hope for wellness soon. We are here for you Randy! God bless!

Guys,

It's Christmas. Can't we all just get along? Everyone here is a WMU fan. The past is the past. Rasser is a die hard fan and wants the best for all Broncos sports. Go Broncos!

You know not what you are saying when it comes to this guy my friend. With him the past is not just the past. But we can certainly take a break for Christmas. All shall be quite on the western front.

Quote:Fleck left because it was time. He was never going to be able to achieve another 2016 again at WMU - or any G5 program.

He could at an AAC or MW program with $$ -- and WMU had $$. But yes, very good chance at WMU he wouldn't achieve the Same thing. It took each game OOC to be winnable for an above-average WMU team + every-so-often both Star WR & QB to be seniors. That said, I think if he wasn't P5-hunting with a fat contract, we would have years as MAC Champs where we'd bring the argument we were just as good as 2016 -- and IMO, would find a year or two being ranked down the road.

Quote:It was time to move. And as upsetting and narcissistic as his departure was, it was no worse than what Coaches like Mark Dantonio and Brian Kelly have done. It's the norm and the ugly nature of the business.

IMO, kind of harsher that sent KB hating on him.

Quote:But Fleck did leave talent. Enough for 8-9 wins in 2017. Unfortunately, a plethora of injuries got in the way. And, yes, some poor coaching decisions too (see not throwing to wide open RBs against MSU's weak outside LBs). That left WMU at 6-6. Sigh.

I agree. It's 9W potential IMO, only if there were no injuries + no poor coaching decisions with a new coach. Can't expect that. But IMO, even with the injuries, we should have gotten 7-5, even with a new coach.

Quote:2018 was marginally better with injuries again being a factor...along with some poor coaching decisions (going for it at BSU and WTF up-the-middle calls in key situations against BYU).

I agree...

Quote:Through all this, Lester has recruited well, v-e-r-y well.

I am confident WMU and Lester will experience a break-through in 2019. It may not be a MAC Championship, but there will be no blow-out losses (Sparty's gonna sweat and struggle) and we will be proud of this football team.

I disagree. Yes, he has recruited well. But him coming in, we had recruiting going well and have had it going well. Part of 2016's success was the schedule: A NW team who's no stranger to losing OOC games to mid-majors (or even decent FCS programs), and Illinois who was a bad team in reboot mode, along with Toledo+NIU at home, to go undefeated. And no key injuries (even though Davis I believe was playing with a slight injury in latter part of season).

2019 is not going to be so great. We can't assume to be so injury-free as '16. We can't expect our D to go from bottom to upper-level to kick things off. We have an improving Syracuse team on the road. Unless MSU has a key down year (like in '16), I don't see us winning that. Utah State, a deservingly rank-level team lost @MSU this year. Then we have Toledo+NIU+EMU+Ohio all on the road. It can be a bit of a better team overall, but the same record @7-5:

@Syracuse: Loss; No Syracuse running away with it 1st half. We keep in the game, but, lose by 14 in the end
@MSU: Within striking distance, but a loss. MSU didn't have a bad night and we weren't on some lucky night; lose by 10; respectable
GState: We win big; expected; liked
Monmouth: We win big; expected; liked

Miami-OH: They want revenge, but, phew, we thwart them. Thank gawd this one was at home!
BGSU: We win bigger than last year against them; liked
@Ohio: We want revenge; make it a great game, but, we lose by (respectable) 7

@EMU: Potential loss, but we eek out a win by 3.
CMU: CMU's adjusting; it's in our house; we win solidly
BSU: We get revenge on an improved BSU and solidly win by 17
@Toledo: We want revenge; make it a close game, but lose respectably by 7 with our late come-back
@NIU: NIU wants revenge on us and gets it; they can be tough at home even though not many show up

WMU: 7-5 (better than last year; tougher schedule set for Ws & Ls)