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Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
(01-04-2019 01:22 PM)esayem Wrote:  Let's say three permanent rivals are chosen. I tried this a few times last night and I ran into difficulty with some teams. I’m trying to base it on TV and fan interest with a bit of history mixed in. UNC and Duke are easy.

For Louisville I am thinking: Pitt and Virginia are the current basketball partners, so let’s keep Pitt but switch in VaTech for Virginia. It makes more sense because they’re closer and have shared history in the Metro. I’d pick FSU for their third. I can see that continuing to be a big TV game and both schools are somewhat similar.

The northeastern schools could all play a round robin with eachother but then it becomes difficult to find Syracuse and BC’s third. I don’t think it’s fair for one to get Miami over the other, so maybe Virginia and Wake (respectively) can be their third. Louisville would be Pitt’s third.

GT: Clemson, Duke, and Miami.
FSU: Miami, Clemson, and Louisville
Miami: FSU, GT, and VaTech
Clemson: GT, FSU, and State

I think you're on the right track. The point is, 3 rivals allows each team to play the "must play" opponents, and alternating the other 10 teams 5 at a time means you still play EVERY team twice every four years - so every 4-year player gets to visit all 14 stadiums, and every student gets to see all 14 teams visit while he's in school.
01-04-2019 01:42 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #102
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
(12-19-2018 02:58 PM)esayem Wrote:  The league would make UNC’s three rivals what they are now: Duke, UVA, and NC State.

Did you know UNC’s most played opponents in fb:

UVA - 113
Wake - 101
Duke - 98
NC State - 98
Maryland - 70

That’s huge. The top four are in the same conference so they should play UNC every year.

On a side note, the four Pac Cali schools should all play every year as well.

I think a more flexible scheduling option will come from eliminating divisions. I’m sure there is a way a few teams can maintain four permanent rivals, I’m not sure the number, but there is probably a way.

Actually Carolina has played Wake Forest 106 times (69-35-2) and has missed playing the Deacs in 05, 08, 09, 10, 13, 14, 16, 17, and 18 because of expansion.

You are also off on your Virginia totals too. UNC holds a 63-56-4 (123 games) advantage over UVa.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019 02:45 PM by XLance.)
01-04-2019 02:44 PM
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esayem Online
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Post: #103
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
(01-04-2019 02:44 PM)XLance Wrote:  
(12-19-2018 02:58 PM)esayem Wrote:  The league would make UNC’s three rivals what they are now: Duke, UVA, and NC State.

Did you know UNC’s most played opponents in fb:

UVA - 113
Wake - 101
Duke - 98
NC State - 98
Maryland - 70

That’s huge. The top four are in the same conference so they should play UNC every year.

On a side note, the four Pac Cali schools should all play every year as well.

I think a more flexible scheduling option will come from eliminating divisions. I’m sure there is a way a few teams can maintain four permanent rivals, I’m not sure the number, but there is probably a way.

Actually Carolina has played Wake Forest 106 times (69-35-2) and has missed playing the Deacs in 05, 08, 09, 10, 13, 14, 16, 17, and 18 because of expansion.

You are also off on your Virginia totals too. UNC holds a 63-56-4 (123 games) advantage over UVa.

04-drinky
01-04-2019 08:18 PM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #104
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
To keep 8 conference games you need 4 rivals, 6 schools that you play every other year, and 3 schools you play just once every three years. In four years you get 11 to 12 of the 13. Run that out to six and you get the last 1 to 2.
01-04-2019 09:11 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
Trying to force fit 4 annual rivals creates a complicated scheduling model - and only for the benefit of a few teams.

It's just a mathematical fact that odd numbers of rivals work best - either 3 (with 8 games) or 5 (with 9 games).
01-04-2019 10:54 PM
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Post: #106
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
Four works perfectly if Notre Dame joined and the conference went to 9 games with 15 teams, albeit rather unlikely at this point.

The problem with 5, 4, or even 3 partners is some teams don’t have three or even two rivals in the conference. I think a good starting point is to look at the two basketball “rivals”/partners and go from there. I’m assuming this will change with the 20 game schedule? Anyway, BC and GT both have Notre Dame in basketball so those teams need an additional rival.

Like I mentioned earlier, Virginia-Louisville is sort of a forced partnership (thanks, UMd), and I think Virginia-Tech-Louisville would be an improved match-up. That completes Virginia Tech’s three and they still visit NC yearly, it will just be against different team every year, a nice set-up if you ask me. Personally, I’d rather see Virginia Tech-FSU than Virginia Tech-Miami every year, it seems the Big East football days spawned that “rivalry”. Louisville-Miami or Louisville-FSU work IMO.
01-05-2019 09:35 AM
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OrangeDude Offline
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Post: #107
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
As an outsider looking in and as a fan of a school that could very well have no true football rival, I actually find it hard to believe any of the other 13 institutions have 4 "true rivals" within this conference - since I am defining true rivals as something where both fan bases show/consider it a true rivalry by great attendance for that particular game over others not considered to be a rivalry game, have a certain amount of reciprocal disdain for each other but grudging respect as well, don't need trophies (but agree they usually have one) or need designations like Parents Weekend or Alum Weekend to boost attendance for said rivalry game. A true rivalry game sells itself, imho.

Also, setting up a "trophy" for a game does not necessarily make it a true rivalry game, again though acknowledging that real rivalry games are likely to have one - not ALL trophy games are true rivalry games. For example VT/GT (which I haven't seen too many of either sides fans claim that as a true rivalry game) playing for the "Tech Trophy" wouldn't cut it for me if they were claiming it as such. Again, just using that as an example, not saying any VT/GT fans are claiming it.

Nor does simply playing a game 60+ times make it a true rivalry. SU has played PSU over 60 times but that isn't considered a true rivalry game by most of the fans on both sides. For the majority of us SU fans we categorized that as our "measuring stick" game, which when the Eastern indies faded out became Miami instead of PSU and now in the ACC its become the Clemson game.

Ohio State has played Indiana, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, Illinois and Michigan over 60 times each. Simply being in the same conference for a long, long time is going to result in accumulating a lot of games played against each other. Does anyone on this board think the Buckeyes' fans consider any of them outside of Michigan as a "rival"? Visit an Ohio State board and read some of their posts during game weeks. I have. There is one other game they consider a rivalry game (and it doesn't even come close to THE game) and has been played less than 40 times. But I can tell you this, that second game has far more fan intensity than the vast majority of "claimed" rivalry games mentioned on this board as being sacrosanct and untouchable and must by necessity be maintained annually.

End of rant.

Cheers,
Neil
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 10:49 AM by OrangeDude.)
01-05-2019 10:46 AM
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Statefan Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
I think these are the most often played series in the current ACC or at least all those played more than 80 times in the last 130 years:

123 - UNC-UVa
116 - Clemson-SC (added)
113 - GT-UGa
112 - NCSU-WF
108 - UNC-NCSU
106 - UNC-WF
105 - UNC-Duke
104 - Pitt-WVa
100 - UVa-VT
99 - WF-Duke
99 - Pitt-PSU
92 - GT-Auburn
90 - ND-Navy
87 - NCSU-Clemson
87 - UVa-Clemson
85 - Duke-GT
84 - ND - Purdue
83 - Clemson-WF
82 - NCSU-Duke
81 - Clemson-GT
81 - Syracuse-PSU
81 - ND-USC
77 - ND-Michigan State
74 - Pitt-Syracuse
73 - FSU-Florida
72 - Pitt -ND
72 - WF-MD
70 - NCSU-MD
70 - UVa-MD
70 - UNC-MD
70 - Duke-UVa
60 - Clemson-UGa
66 - FSU-Miami
57 - UNC-SC
53 - UNC-GT
53 - Louisville-Cincy
51 - GT-Alabama
50 - NCSU-VT
50 - GT-Tulane
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 05:27 PM by Statefan.)
01-05-2019 02:28 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #109
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
I think Clemson/SC has been annual hasn't it?
01-05-2019 02:42 PM
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Post: #110
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
I feel for Pitt after looking at that list.

I think with BC and Syracuse their most played opponents deemphasized sports long ago. Syracuse and Pitt are close to 80 games though.
01-05-2019 03:43 PM
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Post: #111
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
(01-05-2019 02:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think Clemson/SC has been annual hasn't it?

I’m pretty sure, and they’ve played over 100 times.
01-05-2019 03:46 PM
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XLance Offline
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Post: #112
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
Clemson holds a 70-42-4 edge over the chickens
01-05-2019 03:55 PM
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Hokie Mark Offline
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Post: #113
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
(01-05-2019 03:43 PM)esayem Wrote:  I feel for Pitt after looking at that list.

I think with BC and Syracuse their most played opponents deemphasized sports long ago. Syracuse and Pitt are close to 80 games though.

Yeah, Pitt's top 4 are WVU, Penn State, Syracuse and Notre Dame. Navy is #5, but they only have one game free to schedule every season (8 AAC games + ND, Army and Air Force annually), so that's not happening either.

Miami is #6 for them - thank goodness.
01-05-2019 03:55 PM
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Schema Offline
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Post: #114
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
(01-05-2019 02:42 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  I think Clemson/SC has been annual hasn't it?

I believe Clemson and S Carolina have met a total of 116 times. The series has been uninterrupted since 1909 (110 consecutive years).
01-05-2019 03:55 PM
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Post: #115
RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
I added Clemson and I added everything down to 50 games. But I'm sure I'm missing some
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 05:21 PM by Statefan.)
01-05-2019 04:42 PM
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RE: Delany wants to revisit CCG Rule Change
(01-05-2019 02:28 PM)Statefan Wrote:  I think these are the most often played series in the current ACC or at least all those played more than 80 times in the last 130 years:

123 - UNC-UVa
116 - Clemson-SC (added)
113 - GT-UGa
112 - NCSU-WF
108 - UNC-NCSU
106 - UNC-WF
105 - UNC-Duke
104 - Pitt-WVa
100 - UVa-VT
99 - WF-Duke
99 - Pitt-PSU
92 - GT-Auburn
90 - ND-Navy
87 - NCSU-Clemson
87 - UVa-Clemson
85 - Duke-GT
84 - ND - Purdue
83 - Clemson-WF
82 - NCSU-Duke
81 - Clemson-GT
81 - Syracuse-PSU
81 - ND-USC
77 - ND-Michigan State
74 - Pitt-Syracuse
73 - FSU-Florida
72 - Pitt -ND
72 - WF-MD
70 - NCSU-MD
70 - UVa-MD
70 - UNC-MD
70 - Duke-UVa
60 - Clemson-UGa
66 - FSU-Miami
57 - UNC-SC
53 - UNC-GT
53 - Louisville-Cincy
51 - GT-Alabama
50 - NCSU-VT
50 - GT-Tulane

So what you get is:

UNC with 123 games v. UVa, 108 v. NC State, 106 v WF, 105 v. Duke, 70 v. MD, 57 v. South Carolina, and 53 v. GT

GT with 112 games v. Georgia, 85 games v. Duke, 82 v. Auburn, 81 v. Clemson, 53 v. UNC, 51 v. Alabama, and 50 v. Tulane.

Clemson with 116 games v. SC, 87 v. NC State, 87 v. UVa, 83 v. WF, 81 v. GT, and 60 v. Georgia

NCSU with 112 games v. WF, 108 v. UNC, 87 v. Clemson, 82 v. Duke, 70 v. MD, and 50 v. VT

Uva with 123 games v. UNC, 100 v. VT, 87 v. Clemson, 70 v. MD and 70 v. Duke

WF with 112 games against NCSU, 106 v. UNC, 99 v. Duke, 83 v. Clemson, and 72 v. MD

These numbers are a diagram of what the league will bend over for in order to facilitate and that includes the OOC games. It explains why NC State is unhappy about Duke, UVa unhappy about Clemson, WF unhappy about UNC with mutual feelings.
(This post was last modified: 01-05-2019 05:42 PM by Statefan.)
01-05-2019 05:39 PM
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