(12-04-2018 10:19 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  These are the unintended consequences of bad apples (on both sides).

You get uppity women who are man haters .... but you also have those prototypical guys who will try to stick their junk in anything with a pulse. You can't play it straight because people will gossip which becomes the truth to everybody whether it is true or not.

I have a great assistant, she is my right arm and she is a pretty woman. We have a great working relationship and there is nothing there other than professionalism and I still won't allow any compromising situation. What sucks is that there are times when I would like her to be in certain places and meet the right people and I need to refrain from it just to avoid the potential conflict. It stunts her professional development and that sucks.

It does suck. Before I retired, and because of something that happened to a colleague most of us quit meeting with anyone in a closed office period. It didn't matter if they were male, female, or martian. To do so opens anyone up to a he/she said you said. All business meetings were conducted in public at lunch or dinner in a public place and with all parties traveling in their own vehicles. We frequented enough establishments if the meeting was to be confidential the restaurant would give us a booth in the corner away from other ears. That worked quite well. If the client was female we made sure one of our female colleagues was present as well. If one of our female colleagues had to meet with a male client she was accompanied by a male colleague.

The whole situation is reflective of a schizophrenic society. We hype sex and violence on all of our media, and the media goes hard after violence and sexual offenses. We over sexualize everything and pretend to have over prudish mores. We make violence look appealing on TV and suspend a poor kid for sticking up for himself on a bus when a bully tries to take his lunch and money.

I'm not trying to be overly religious here, but it's as if the Devil is constantly laughing at our country. TV portrays a totally immoral world in which nobody may be trusted, and then in the private world when we try to trust we can't because of the public perceptions fed by the media. If we are acted upon violently we are hemmed in by laws that tell us a thief may plunder our vehicle in the driveway but may not be confronted until he breaks down our door. It's nuts.

Corporate reactions to this duplicity are what have led to the blind enforcement of accusations being tantamount to conviction. It's fire first ask questions later. The burden of proof, due process, and your rights go out the window all because the corporation that employs you fears public perception and doesn't care a hoot about your innocence, or the truth, let alone anyone's rights.

And social media feeds the flames of the fire of insanity that is burning up our rights and our way of life.

Sometimes I think Don McClean needs to pen a few new verses to "Bye Bye Miss American Pie."

I found that total paranoia was not necessary. I could still trust women I had known all of my life, and trust the guys I had known forever. It was the young and the new faces I simply wasn't willing to take a risk with in any fashion. And that's sad and unfair as well, but was reality.

(12-03-2018 07:25 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Quote:No more dinners with female colleagues. Don’t sit next to them on flights. Book hotel rooms on different floors. Avoid one-on-one meetings.

In fact, as a wealth adviser put it, just hiring a woman these days is “an unknown risk.” What if she took something he said the wrong way?

Across Wall Street, men are adopting controversial strategies for the #MeToo era and, in the process, making life even harder for women.

Call it the Pence Effect, after U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, who has said he avoids dining alone with any woman other than his wife. In finance, the overarching impact can be, in essence, gender segregation.

Interviews with more than 30 senior executives suggest many are spooked by #MeToo and struggling to cope. “It’s creating a sense of walking on eggshells,” said David Bahnsen, a former managing director at Morgan Stanley who’s now an independent adviser overseeing more than $1.5 billion.

This is hardly a single-industry phenomenon, as men across the country check their behavior at work, to protect themselves in the face of what they consider unreasonable political correctness -- or to simply do the right thing. The upshot is forceful on Wall Street, where women are scarce in the upper ranks. The industry has also long nurtured a culture that keeps harassment complaints out of the courts and public eye, and has so far avoided a mega-scandal like the one that has engulfed Harvey Weinstein.
‘Real Loss’

Now, more than a year into the #MeToo movement -- with its devastating revelations of harassment and abuse in Hollywood, Silicon Valley and beyond -- Wall Street risks becoming more of a boy’s club, rather than less of one.

“Women are grasping for ideas on how to deal with it, because it is affecting our careers,” said Karen Elinski, president of the Financial Women’s Association and a senior vice president at Wells Fargo & Co. “It’s a real loss.”

There’s a danger, too, for companies that fail to squash the isolating backlash and don’t take steps to have top managers be open about the issue and make it safe for everyone to discuss it, said Stephen Zweig, an employment attorney with FordHarrison.

“If men avoid working or traveling with women alone, or stop mentoring women for fear of being accused of sexual harassment,” he said, “those men are going to back out of a sexual harassment complaint and right into a sex discrimination complaint.”
Channeling Pence

While the new personal codes for dealing with #MeToo have only just begun to ripple, the shift is already palpable, according to the people interviewed, who declined to be named. They work for hedge funds, law firms, banks, private equity firms and investment-management firms.

For obvious reasons, few will talk openly about the issue. Privately, though, many of the men interviewed acknowledged they’re channeling Pence, saying how uneasy they are about being alone with female colleagues, particularly youthful or attractive ones, fearful of the rumor mill or of, as one put it, the potential liability.

A manager in infrastructure investing said he won’t meet with female employees in rooms without windows anymore; he also keeps his distance in elevators. A late-40-something in private equity said he has a new rule, established on the advice of his wife, an attorney: no business dinner with a woman 35 or younger.

Quote:“There aren’t enough women in senior positions to bring along the next generation all by themselves,” said Lisa Kaufman, chief executive officer of LaSalle Securities. “Advancement typically requires that someone at a senior level knows your work, gives you opportunities and is willing to champion you within the firm. It’s hard for a relationship like that to develop if the senior person is unwilling to spend one-on-one time with a more junior person.”

Men have to step up, she said, and “not let fear be a barrier.”

Link

Didn't see that one coming.


lol... good ol' feminists. It really is hilarious when things backfire.

(12-03-2018 09:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 09:25 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Unintended consequences beez a biatch sometimes.

I wouldn't call them unintended consequences. I would call them logical conclusions. Now let's see who the first corporation to grow a pair will be when they announce their all male employee roster, inclusive of minorities, but devoid of women. Why would anyone want a woman in the work place if the fear of accusation destroys the team spirit? You know kind of like having to use women who can't carry the standard weight of resupply into combat.

Will we return to the day with single-income families where mom stays at home and raises the kids?

(12-04-2018 04:05 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 10:19 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  These are the unintended consequences of bad apples (on both sides).

You get uppity women who are man haters .... but you also have those prototypical guys who will try to stick their junk in anything with a pulse. You can't play it straight because people will gossip which becomes the truth to everybody whether it is true or not.

I have a great assistant, she is my right arm and she is a pretty woman. We have a great working relationship and there is nothing there other than professionalism and I still won't allow any compromising situation. What sucks is that there are times when I would like her to be in certain places and meet the right people and I need to refrain from it just to avoid the potential conflict. It stunts her professional development and that sucks.

It does suck. Before I retired, and because of something that happened to a colleague most of us quit meeting with anyone in a closed office period. It didn't matter if they were male, female, or martian. To do so opens anyone up to a he/she said you said. All business meetings were conducted in public at lunch or dinner in a public place and with all parties traveling in their own vehicles. We frequented enough establishments if the meeting was to be confidential the restaurant would give us a booth in the corner away from other ears. That worked quite well. If the client was female we made sure one of our female colleagues was present as well. If one of our female colleagues had to meet with a male client she was accompanied by a male colleague.

The whole situation is reflective of a schizophrenic society. We hype sex and violence on all of our media, and the media goes hard after violence and sexual offenses. We over sexualize everything and pretend to have over prudish mores. We make violence look appealing on TV and suspend a poor kid for sticking up for himself on a bus when a bully tries to take his lunch and money.

I'm not trying to be overly religious here, but it's as if the Devil is constantly laughing at our country. TV portrays a totally immoral world in which nobody may be trusted, and then in the private world when we try to trust we can't because of the public perceptions fed by the media. If we are acted upon violently we are hemmed in by laws that tell us a thief may plunder our vehicle in the driveway but may not be confronted until he breaks down our door. It's nuts.

Corporate reactions to this duplicity are what have led to the blind enforcement of accusations being tantamount to conviction. It's fire first ask questions later. The burden of proof, due process, and your rights go out the window all because the corporation that employs you fears public perception and doesn't care a hoot about your innocence, or the truth, let alone anyone's rights.

And social media feeds the flames of the fire of insanity that is burning up our rights and our way of life.

Sometimes I think Don McClean needs to pen a few new verses to "Bye Bye Miss American Pie."

I found that total paranoia was not necessary. I could still trust women I had known all of my life, and trust the guys I had no forever. It was the young and the new faces I simply wasn't willing to take a risk with in any fashion. And that's sad and unfair as well, but was reality.

Well said.

The whole thing harms relationships. There are "flirty" females who have no sexual intentions. Its just their personality. It makes people be stiff, formal and closed up.

(12-04-2018 05:03 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 09:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 09:25 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Unintended consequences beez a biatch sometimes.

I wouldn't call them unintended consequences. I would call them logical conclusions. Now let's see who the first corporation to grow a pair will be when they announce their all male employee roster, inclusive of minorities, but devoid of women. Why would anyone want a woman in the work place if the fear of accusation destroys the team spirit? You know kind of like having to use women who can't carry the standard weight of resupply into combat.

Will we return to the day with single-income families where mom stays at home and raises the kids?

Pretty hard considering they are going to college in a lot higher numbers.

(12-04-2018 10:19 AM)Eldonabe Wrote:  These are the unintended consequences of bad apples (on both sides).

You get uppity women who are man haters .... but you also have those prototypical guys who will try to stick their junk in anything with a pulse. You can't play it straight because people will gossip which becomes the truth to everybody whether it is true or not.

I have a great assistant, she is my right arm and she is a pretty woman. We have a great working relationship and there is nothing there other than professionalism and I still won't allow any compromising situation. What sucks is that there are times when I would like her to be in certain places and meet the right people and I need to refrain from it just to avoid the potential conflict. It stunts her professional development and that sucks.

Smart, Very smart.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

(12-03-2018 10:23 PM)No Bull Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 07:25 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  

Quote:No more dinners with female colleagues. Don’t sit next to them on flights. Book hotel rooms on different floors. Avoid one-on-one meetings.

In fact, as a wealth adviser put it, just hiring a woman these days is “an unknown risk.” What if she took something he said the wrong way?

Across Wall Street, men are adopting controversial strategies for the #MeToo era and, in the process, making life even harder for women.

Call it the Pence Effect, after U.S. Vice President Mike Pence, who has said he avoids dining alone with any woman other than his wife. In finance, the overarching impact can be, in essence, gender segregation.

Interviews with more than 30 senior executives suggest many are spooked by #MeToo and struggling to cope. “It’s creating a sense of walking on eggshells,” said David Bahnsen, a former managing director at Morgan Stanley who’s now an independent adviser overseeing more than $1.5 billion.

This is hardly a single-industry phenomenon, as men across the country check their behavior at work, to protect themselves in the face of what they consider unreasonable political correctness -- or to simply do the right thing. The upshot is forceful on Wall Street, where women are scarce in the upper ranks. The industry has also long nurtured a culture that keeps harassment complaints out of the courts and public eye, and has so far avoided a mega-scandal like the one that has engulfed Harvey Weinstein.
‘Real Loss’

Now, more than a year into the #MeToo movement -- with its devastating revelations of harassment and abuse in Hollywood, Silicon Valley and beyond -- Wall Street risks becoming more of a boy’s club, rather than less of one.

“Women are grasping for ideas on how to deal with it, because it is affecting our careers,” said Karen Elinski, president of the Financial Women’s Association and a senior vice president at Wells Fargo & Co. “It’s a real loss.”

There’s a danger, too, for companies that fail to squash the isolating backlash and don’t take steps to have top managers be open about the issue and make it safe for everyone to discuss it, said Stephen Zweig, an employment attorney with FordHarrison.

“If men avoid working or traveling with women alone, or stop mentoring women for fear of being accused of sexual harassment,” he said, “those men are going to back out of a sexual harassment complaint and right into a sex discrimination complaint.”
Channeling Pence

While the new personal codes for dealing with #MeToo have only just begun to ripple, the shift is already palpable, according to the people interviewed, who declined to be named. They work for hedge funds, law firms, banks, private equity firms and investment-management firms.

For obvious reasons, few will talk openly about the issue. Privately, though, many of the men interviewed acknowledged they’re channeling Pence, saying how uneasy they are about being alone with female colleagues, particularly youthful or attractive ones, fearful of the rumor mill or of, as one put it, the potential liability.

A manager in infrastructure investing said he won’t meet with female employees in rooms without windows anymore; he also keeps his distance in elevators. A late-40-something in private equity said he has a new rule, established on the advice of his wife, an attorney: no business dinner with a woman 35 or younger.

Quote:“There aren’t enough women in senior positions to bring along the next generation all by themselves,” said Lisa Kaufman, chief executive officer of LaSalle Securities. “Advancement typically requires that someone at a senior level knows your work, gives you opportunities and is willing to champion you within the firm. It’s hard for a relationship like that to develop if the senior person is unwilling to spend one-on-one time with a more junior person.”

Men have to step up, she said, and “not let fear be a barrier.”

Link

this should not be a problem for the modern feminine progressive male. The femiman.

He's devilishly cute.

Trudeau is more soyboy than that photo, IMO.

(12-04-2018 05:10 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 05:03 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 09:37 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(12-03-2018 09:25 PM)TigerBlue4Ever Wrote:  Unintended consequences beez a biatch sometimes.

I wouldn't call them unintended consequences. I would call them logical conclusions. Now let's see who the first corporation to grow a pair will be when they announce their all male employee roster, inclusive of minorities, but devoid of women. Why would anyone want a woman in the work place if the fear of accusation destroys the team spirit? You know kind of like having to use women who can't carry the standard weight of resupply into combat.

Will we return to the day with single-income families where mom stays at home and raises the kids?

Pretty hard considering they are going to college in a lot higher numbers.

I didn't say it would happen tomorrow.

And I said it tongue-in-cheek.



oops... can I say "tongue" in a thread about #metoo?

Well, boys.

I think Pence was right this time. Credit where it's due. The third wave of feminism will undo what the second wave accomplished.