Hello There, Guest! (LoginRegister)

Post Reply 
MAC Hoops Whiparound
Author Message
Bookmark and Share
luckyflash Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 946
Joined: Nov 2006
Reputation: 2
I Root For: GOLDEN FLASHES
Location:
Post: #21
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-03-2019 10:42 PM)cschierh Wrote:  Interesting piece from Elton Alexander.

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2019/01...ryheadline

HIs love affair with the zippys continues. smh.01-wingedeagle
01-04-2019 08:30 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
burden Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,112
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 13
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #22
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-04-2019 12:33 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(01-03-2019 10:42 PM)cschierh Wrote:  Interesting piece from Elton Alexander.

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2019/01...ryheadline

It's amusing the article is about 'new metrics' yet one of the 4 he mentions is RPI. I didn't know anyone that followed college basketball still looked at RPI.

Also amusing that he says Kent needs to get more from it's bench. Heck even the Pac12 article knew that Walker is coming off the bench.


Remember your talking about Elton. I will say that bench scoring is an overrated statistic precisely because of players like Walker. We know he is a starter and his minutes reflect it. To say our bench is okay just because the coach won’t start him is fooling yourself. Our 6-8 or 9 players need to score more. Walker is not one of those.
01-04-2019 08:45 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
burden Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,112
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 13
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #23
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
Maybe it’s just me but this is a team that so far doesn’t even come close to fitting a normal distribution. Playing for the most part a very weak schedule and winning in more than one case just barely (heck with 30 seconds left in the first half they were leading Oberlin by only 23-20). In there tougher games they beat Oregon St and Vanderbilt on the road and got beat by Liberty and routed by Louisville.

Their record looks great but there are some warning lights flashing. In 3 or 4 games we will know a lot better. It will be interesting to see what happens when Conference teams who know Kent well start to play us.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019 12:43 PM by burden.)
01-04-2019 08:53 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Slinkin Street Flash Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,468
Joined: Aug 2013
Reputation: 16
I Root For: Kent State
Location: Kent
Post: #24
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-03-2019 10:42 PM)cschierh Wrote:  Interesting piece from Elton Alexander.

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2019/01...ryheadline

Yeech...if I were a journalism professor, I'd throw Elton out of class. "I call myself an expert, and I need to do an article on MAC basketball, but I don't have any real knowledge myself, so let's go see that I can find on the internet"

I want sports reporters to report on sports, not to report on other sports reporters..."According to ESPN’s BPI, Kent is the fifth-best team in the MAC. But under the heading of ‘resumes’ the BPI has Kent as one of three MAC teams seeded into the NCAA Tournament with Buffalo as a No. 2 seed, Toledo a No. 10 seed and Kent an 11 seed. However, ESPN’s Bracketology again has the MAC as a one-bid league." - that confuses Elton... "So go figure. ESPN envisions three MAC NCAA Tournament teams, or one."

Why would Kent State's 'worst loss' be against #24 Louisville, when they also lost to #47 Liberty. I had thought that the Liberty loss was pretty bad, but now I see they're up to 113th in Sagarin, so it wasn't so bad. If 'The Net' has Kent at 97th, and Liberty at 47th, why would that be a bad loss at all?
01-04-2019 11:39 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Muskrat Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 578
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 2
I Root For: Kent State
Location:
Post: #25
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
The way the traditional news media (TV, radio, newspapers), including sports, have been cutting staffing and cutting coverage for years now, I'm actually surprised the Plain Dealer still covers the MAC at all. Alexander has always been tougher on Kent State than Akron, but I have no idea why.


The "6th man" is more of a role than an indication that a player is part of the "bench". Red Auerbach popularized that role with the Celtics back in the 1950's, but I don't know if he was the first to use that concept. More important is what five players get the most minutes and what five are on the court at the end of a close game. Don't forget that until the MAC tournament of his second season Trevor Huffman came off the bench, but he was always in the game at crunch time. Myself, I don't consider Walker a bench player. He's second only to Avery in average minutes per game.
01-04-2019 04:06 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
anti-zip Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,630
Joined: Feb 2009
Reputation: 21
I Root For: kent state!
Location:
Post: #26
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-04-2019 08:45 AM)burden Wrote:  
(01-04-2019 12:33 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(01-03-2019 10:42 PM)cschierh Wrote:  Interesting piece from Elton Alexander.

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2019/01...ryheadline

It's amusing the article is about 'new metrics' yet one of the 4 he mentions is RPI. I didn't know anyone that followed college basketball still looked at RPI.

Also amusing that he says Kent needs to get more from it's bench. Heck even the Pac12 article knew that Walker is coming off the bench.


Remember your talking about Elton. I will say that bench scoring is an overrated statistic precisely because of players like Walker. We know he is a starter and his minutes reflect it. To say our bench is okay just because the coach won’t start him is fooling yourself. Our 6-8 or 9 players need to score more. Walker is not one of those.

Ok, so because Walker plays starter minutes you don't view him as a bench player, that's fine. But then that means you have to include one of the starters in what you consider the bench. Thanks to his foul addiction Whittington is playing the fewest minutes of the top 6, so by that logic we get to include him in our bench? Instead of getting into who is a starter and who isn't let's look at it this way, our rotation is 9 deep right now. That's a pretty standard rotation. So what are our #6-9 players giving us?

Here's the points per game on our #6-9 players (in MPG) over the last 3 years.
- 2018/19 - 21.9 ppg
- 2017/18 - 15 ppg
- 2016/17 - 15.7

You might say, well Walker missing the start of the season means some of those guys numbers are inflated because there were more minutes to go around while he was out... that's fair. So let's look at our #6-9 players points per 40 minutes.

-2018/19 - 55.5 points per 40 minutes
-2017/18 - 40.6 points per 40 minutes
-2016/17 - 41.8 points per 40 minutes

So our "bench" is giving us more scoring right now than it did the previous two seasons even if you don't think of Walker as a bench player.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019 06:26 PM by anti-zip.)
01-04-2019 06:16 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Muskrat Offline
Special Teams
*

Posts: 578
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 2
I Root For: Kent State
Location:
Post: #27
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
I think the rotation is pretty good. I would like to see a player or two step up a little more though, like Duling. Or Peterson scoring more.
01-04-2019 07:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
burden Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,112
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 13
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #28
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-04-2019 06:16 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(01-04-2019 08:45 AM)burden Wrote:  
(01-04-2019 12:33 AM)anti-zip Wrote:  
(01-03-2019 10:42 PM)cschierh Wrote:  Interesting piece from Elton Alexander.

https://www.cleveland.com/sports/2019/01...ryheadline

It's amusing the article is about 'new metrics' yet one of the 4 he mentions is RPI. I didn't know anyone that followed college basketball still looked at RPI.

Also amusing that he says Kent needs to get more from it's bench. Heck even the Pac12 article knew that Walker is coming off the bench.


Remember your talking about Elton. I will say that bench scoring is an overrated statistic precisely because of players like Walker. We know he is a starter and his minutes reflect it. To say our bench is okay just because the coach won’t start him is fooling yourself. Our 6-8 or 9 players need to score more. Walker is not one of those.

Ok, so because Walker plays starter minutes you don't view him as a bench player, that's fine. But then that means you have to include one of the starters in what you consider the bench. Thanks to his foul addiction Whittington is playing the fewest minutes of the top 6, so by that logic we get to include him in our bench? Instead of getting into who is a starter and who isn't let's look at it this way, our rotation is 9 deep right now. That's a pretty standard rotation. So what are our #6-9 players giving us?

Here's the points per game on our #6-9 players (in MPG) over the last 3 years.
- 2018/19 - 21.9 ppg
- 2017/18 - 15 ppg
- 2016/17 - 15.7

You might say, well Walker missing the start of the season means some of those guys numbers are inflated because there were more minutes to go around while he was out... that's fair. So let's look at our #6-9 players points per 40 minutes.

-2018/19 - 55.5 points per 40 minutes
-2017/18 - 40.6 points per 40 minutes
-2016/17 - 41.8 points per 40 minutes

So our "bench" is giving us more scoring right now than it did the previous two seasons even if you don't think of Walker as a bench player.
Good data. My only point was criticizing Elton for not including Walker as a bench player wasn’t right (I can’t believe I’m defending Elton).
01-04-2019 09:20 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
burden Offline
All American
*

Posts: 4,112
Joined: Nov 2005
Reputation: 13
I Root For:
Location:
Post: #29
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-04-2019 04:06 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  The way the traditional news media (TV, radio, newspapers), including sports, have been cutting staffing and cutting coverage for years now, I'm actually surprised the Plain Dealer still covers the MAC at all. Alexander has always been tougher on Kent State than Akron, but I have no idea why.


The "6th man" is more of a role than an indication that a player is part of the "bench". Red Auerbach popularized that role with the Celtics back in the 1950's, but I don't know if he was the first to use that concept. More important is what five players get the most minutes and what five are on the court at the end of a close game. Don't forget that until the MAC tournament of his second season Trevor Huffman came off the bench, but he was always in the game at crunch time. Myself, I don't consider Walker a bench player. He's second only to Avery in average minutes per game.


I think Elton’s bias against Kent goes back to him being forced to cover the Kent women in the late 1990’s and early 2000’s. It was a PD effort to cover women’s sports and he did a poor job. In fact that’s where my anti Elton bias came from as half of his articles were flat out wrong. At times he didn’t even know who the point guard was. Also as you might imagine he and Lindsay weren’t exactly buddies. Just speculation but his body language was terrible at those games. You can be sure he doesn’t consider it the pinnacle of his career.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019 09:28 PM by burden.)
01-04-2019 09:27 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
anti-zip Offline
All American
*

Posts: 2,630
Joined: Feb 2009
Reputation: 21
I Root For: kent state!
Location:
Post: #30
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
Woa. Ball St opens MAC play with a 15 point win at Toledo.
(This post was last modified: 01-04-2019 11:23 PM by anti-zip.)
01-04-2019 10:28 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
JimJoyce Offline
1st String
*

Posts: 1,068
Joined: Oct 2008
Reputation: 13
I Root For: KT ST
Location:
Post: #31
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
I know it’s one game but I have thought UT was smoke and mirrors all year.
01-04-2019 10:31 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
flash77 Offline
Bench Warmer
*

Posts: 223
Joined: Jun 2011
Reputation: 0
I Root For: Kent State
Location: Philly
Post: #32
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-04-2019 10:31 PM)JimJoyce Wrote:  I know it’s one game but I have thought UT was smoke and mirrors all year.

I think the term that comes to mind is "UT played soft." Going against UB next is going to be very difficult. 0-2 to start MAC play will put them in a big hole.
01-04-2019 10:55 PM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
dannyb73 Offline
MAC CHAMPS
*

Posts: 5,387
Joined: May 2008
Reputation: 78
I Root For: Mem & Kent St
Location: Memphis
Post: #33
RE: MAC Hoops Whiparound
(01-04-2019 08:53 AM)burden Wrote:  Maybe it’s just me but this is a team that so far doesn’t even come close to fitting a normal distribution. Playing for the most part a very weak schedule and winning in more than one case just barely (heck with 30 seconds left in the first half they were leading Oberlin by only 23-20). In there tougher games they beat Oregon St and Vanderbilt on the road and got beat by Liberty and routed by Louisville.

Their record looks great but there are some warning lights flashing. In 3 or 4 games we will know a lot better. It will be interesting to see what happens when Conference teams who know Kent well start to play us.

While your post is correct, what it tells me is how tough this team is. Tough teams find a way to win. Scratch, claw, and fight. We will see.
01-05-2019 10:27 AM
Find all posts by this user Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)


Copyright © 2002-2019 Collegiate Sports Nation Bulletin Board System (CSNbbs), All Rights Reserved.
CSNbbs is an independent fan site and is in no way affiliated to the NCAA or any of the schools and conferences it represents.
This site monetizes links. FTC Disclosure.
We allow third-party companies to serve ads and/or collect certain anonymous information when you visit our web site. These companies may use non-personally identifiable information (e.g., click stream information, browser type, time and date, subject of advertisements clicked or scrolled over) during your visits to this and other Web sites in order to provide advertisements about goods and services likely to be of greater interest to you. These companies typically use a cookie or third party web beacon to collect this information. To learn more about this behavioral advertising practice or to opt-out of this type of advertising, you can visit http://www.networkadvertising.org.
Powered By MyBB, © 2002-2019 MyBB Group.