The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(12-13-2018 01:14 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We've won the CAA tournament back in the days when it was a good conference with Darius James playing nearly the whole tournament. I think even Drew Williamson did it too. It isn't unheard of.

Yes, but neither were counted on like Caver to make a bunch of outside shots down the stretch.

(12-13-2018 01:18 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 01:14 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We've won the CAA tournament back in the days when it was a good conference with Darius James playing nearly the whole tournament. I think even Drew Williamson did it too. It isn't unheard of.

Yes, but neither were counted on like Caver to make a bunch of outside shots down the stretch.

James had that floater though, so he didn't need to hit outside shots.

(12-13-2018 03:55 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 01:18 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 01:14 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We've won the CAA tournament back in the days when it was a good conference with Darius James playing nearly the whole tournament. I think even Drew Williamson did it too. It isn't unheard of.

Yes, but neither were counted on like Caver to make a bunch of outside shots down the stretch.

James had that floater though, so he didn't need to hit outside shots.

James had Kent Bazemore, Ben Finney, Frank Hassell, Gerald Lee and Chris Cooper.

Williamson had Alex Loughton, Arnaud Dahi, Valdas Vasilius and Isaiah Hunter.


Both PGs did a great job managing the game and protecting the ball, but tired legs are much less of a factor when you aren't taking 15 shots per game, many of which are step-back jumpers with the shot clock expiring. When your legs go, your shot, even FTs, is the first thing affected.

James drove the lane the whole tournament. If his legs got tired that would have diminished his ability. You are making too much of it.

(12-13-2018 08:04 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  James drove the lane the whole tournament. If his legs got tired that would have diminished his ability. You are making too much of it.

Just out of curiosity I looked up the individual stats for the 2011 season which was Darius James senior year when we whipped VCU. Marquez DeLancy was on that team as a backup Pg and averaged 12.5 min per game. James averaged 28.5 per game. I don't know how many minutes either played in the championship game but it's fair to say James had some backup help during the season. Based on that stat alone he did not shoulder the minutes per game that Caver does, much less being counted on to shoulder the a lot of the scoring load.

(12-13-2018 06:48 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  MTSU sucks this year and WKU and Marshall are struggling so far. I'm sure someone will all of the sudden turn into a world beater, but as of now, it looks like we have a shot.

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There are legitimately 7 or 8 teams in CUSA that could win it this year.

There are zero teams that will get an at large.

Will make for a great CUSA tourney but also makes it that much more unlikely that we will come out on top, especially with no interior scoring.

By game 3, in 3 days, our perimeter players legs will be shot so we will need good interior play and I just don’t see that happening.

We are way too 1 dimensional to win CUSA this year.

(12-13-2018 06:42 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 12:21 AM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  It’s going exactly how I thought it would save for vcu blowing a 17 point lead against us........namely, that we beat the teams we were supposed to, lost to the teams we were supposed to and our front court blows despite all of the “fans” who said they looked amazing in practice (practice???).

We don’t have the horses to win CUSA this year and I don’t see us winning 3 in 3 days without some luck and someone in the front court showing a pulse.

We are exactly who I thought we were which is YET AGAIN, good but not nearly good enough.

But yeah, let’s shut up the only fans on this board willing to take a realistic look at the program and expect better.

Great idea.

I am not telling you or anyone else to shut up. But I mean you just proved my point in the very first line of your response... you see it as VCU squandering a 17 point lead, not ODU fighting back from a 17 point deficit. It's like you have this inherit bias against ODU that you can't shake because you hate the coach.

MOST of us thought (including you) that we would struggle early this year with an unknown front court. For some reason, you can't see that the back court is carrying much better than anyone expected, nor can you see that our front court doesn't even need to score in order for us to win so far. Our front court isn't amazing right now, but to say they don't have a pulse either shows that once again all you are looking at is the box score or you don't understand nearly as much about basketball as you claim. Points scored is not the only qualifier. Surely someone who has watched ODU basketball over the last 10 years would understand that. I wonder if you think Wade is a bad player because he's a guard only averaging less than 4 points a game so far.

You also suggesting that we can't win CUSA also means you aren't paying attention to the rest of the conference. I don't care if you do or not, but I would recommend not speaking about things you don't understand or have done 0 research on. RIGHT NOW, we are in every measure a top team yet again in the conference, despite our early struggles as most predicted. You should diss the conference, that would make more sense.

As far as your last line in your response. We want better too. The difference is we don't have the need to say it after every win, or 3 times after every loss. I'm sure you'll say it again after Saturday. It's not that we don't disagree, it's just we've seen it over and over and over again. You've drilled it here, and all of us know where you stand.

You do realize that 7/10 times, when I’ve said that, it’s in response to someone taking a shot at me, yes?

I don’t say it after every win or loss contrary to popular belief but I will defend my point of view when it’s attacked.

I don’t think you fall into this category at all btw and I enjoy reasonable discussions as much as anyone.

(12-13-2018 09:25 AM)Punk Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 09:01 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  Exactly odu09. You hit the nail on the head. I also think our front court has not been as anemic as some claim. It's true our two bigs laid an egg against Fairfield but this teams makeup is so different this year we have to factor in that we have a wing playing the four spot quite a bit. Last year Porter, Brandon, and Carver played about 86% of the minutes at the 4 and 5. This year if you add Dickens, Robinson, Ezikpe, and Carver's minutes they are taking up about 68% of those minutes the 4 and 5 would play. So we are getting about 15 minutes a game at the four from a group of players and that group has been very productive. Acutually at this point in the season BJ is on track to have better rebounding numbers than his brother last year ( the best on the team). I get that it's early and conference play has not started but this team's makeup is so different I like the makeup of our front court much better than last year. Plus Ezikpe is adding that depth in the middle we did not have last year.
I loved Porter's play when he was on last year. He was a difference maker but when he started his antics during a game we had nobody to turn to except to put Brandon in the middle and bring Carver in. Jones has more to turn to this year and I still believe the best is ahead this season for both Dickens and Robinson.
Jones has said publicly this team was not going to be as strong on the boards as in years past but I believe the defense can still be better( or is better) because of the play and mobility we are getting in the front court.

BJ has been a rebounding fool this year. He has been flying in for them, and it's been awesome to watch.

I mean, someone has to grab them if our “4 star” 6”11 PF isn’t lol

(12-13-2018 10:28 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 06:48 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  MTSU sucks this year and WKU and Marshall are struggling so far. I'm sure someone will all of the sudden turn into a world beater, but as of now, it looks like we have a shot.

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The problem, as I see it, is not that there are teams that are significantly better than us. The problem is that under the JJ system, it seems extremely difficult for the team to win three tough games in three days. Part of the problem is that we win games throughout the season by being more committed to defense that anyone else. Come tournament time, everyone steps up their defense, and our advantage is decimated while our scoring problems are exacerbated. UVA faces the same issue btw, hence their underperforming in the NCAAT every year. They are not exactly the same as us, though, as they actually do run good offense.

Bingo........that and our EXTREMELY perimeter oriented offense is going to struggle big time on a neutral court, in an empty arena, playing 3 games in 3 days.

Blaine’s best teams won the caa tourney because they could dominate inside. The Loughton/Dahi/vv team and the Lee/hassel/carter/finney teams were rugged and dominant in the paint on offense and defense.

This team looks good defensively in the limited amount I’ve seen them but doesn’t control the boards well and can’t score a lick inside.

NOT a good recipe for success in March for a Jeff jones team that doesn’t really do anything really well.

(12-13-2018 01:14 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  We've won the CAA tournament back in the days when it was a good conference with Darius James playing nearly the whole tournament. I think even Drew Williamson did it too. It isn't unheard of.

Drew Williamson definitely played almost every minute of the tourney.

He wasn’t asked to score a ton though and create offensively the way caver has to.

He could feed our bigs and run the offense through them. Caver doesn’t have that luxury.

(12-13-2018 08:04 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  James drove the lane the whole tournament. If his legs got tired that would have diminished his ability. You are making too much of it.

What??? No he didn’t. This is patently untrue.

(12-13-2018 10:44 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 08:04 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  James drove the lane the whole tournament. If his legs got tired that would have diminished his ability. You are making too much of it.

What??? No he didn’t. This is patently untrue.

Where you there? No.

I was. Not every possession of course. But he penetrated a ton.

(12-13-2018 09:43 PM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 08:04 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  James drove the lane the whole tournament. If his legs got tired that would have diminished his ability. You are making too much of it.

Just out of curiosity I looked up the individual stats for the 2011 season which was Darius James senior year when we whipped VCU. Marquez DeLancy was on that team as a backup Pg and averaged 12.5 min per game. James averaged 28.5 per game. I don't know how many minutes either played in the championship game but it's fair to say James had some backup help during the season. Based on that stat alone he did not shoulder the minutes per game that Caver does, much less being counted on to shoulder the a lot of the scoring load.

James played the following minutes:

35 vs. Delaware
34 vs. Hoftsra
32 vs. VCU
32 vs. Butler

(12-13-2018 10:28 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 06:48 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  MTSU sucks this year and WKU and Marshall are struggling so far. I'm sure someone will all of the sudden turn into a world beater, but as of now, it looks like we have a shot.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The problem, as I see it, is not that there are teams that are significantly better than us. The problem is that under the JJ system, it seems extremely difficult for the team to win three tough games in three days. Part of the problem is that we win games throughout the season by being more committed to defense that anyone else. Come tournament time, everyone steps up their defense, and our advantage is decimated while our scoring problems are exacerbated. UVA faces the same issue btw, hence their underperforming in the NCAAT every year. They are not exactly the same as us, though, as they actually do run good offense.

Other teams that had similar commitment to defense than UVA had (and inferior offenses) include:

Cincy (won their conference tourney and lost in 3rd round)
Michigan (won their conference tourney and lost in finals)
Texas Tech (lost in Big 12 tourney and in the elite 8)
Syracuse (lost in ACC tourney and lost in sweet 16)


Those were your top 5 defenses (including UVA)

This thought that defense first doesn't do well in the postseason in nonsense.

(12-13-2018 12:06 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 11:34 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 11:19 AM)JJMonarch Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 10:28 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 06:48 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  MTSU sucks this year and WKU and Marshall are struggling so far. I'm sure someone will all of the sudden turn into a world beater, but as of now, it looks like we have a shot.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The problem, as I see it, is not that there are teams that are significantly better than us. The problem is that under the JJ system, it seems extremely difficult for the team to win three tough games in three days. Part of the problem is that we win games throughout the season by being more committed to defense that anyone else. Come tournament time, everyone steps up their defense, and our advantage is decimated while our scoring problems are exacerbated. UVA faces the same issue btw, hence their underperforming in the NCAAT every year. They are not exactly the same as us, though, as they actually do run good offense.

I agree with your assessment about the defense. And I agree 100% about the problem UVA has in the post season. They bring it every night on defense and you can pretty much count on us doing the same. Some teams pick it up a notch on defense at tournament time and there isn't much for us or UVA to pick up on that end. However, Jones is making a concerted effort to get more offense by trying to score in the open court and he isn't getting much credit for that. We are going to struggle at times as we don't have a bunch of three point specialists and low posts threat but at some point we should give these kids some credit for finding their groove on offense. X and Godwin are clearly big pieces to the puzzle and they seem to be getting confidence in what they do. Is it enough? Who knows, but at least this year we seem to have more interchangeable parts to throw in the mix and Jones ( for the first time ever) seems to have a lot of confidence in his bench. This team is going to frustrate the heck out of us at times but as a fan right now I like the energy and excitement they bring.

While UVA has underperformed in NCAA tournaments lately, they did win the ACC tournament last year and have fared well in the ACC tournament in other years since they got good again as well. Also Wisconsin has historically overperformed in the NCAAs as a defense first team. It is a crapshoot in these tournaments. Any team that goes cold shooting can be upset, probably more so an offense first team. UVA's defense allowed 74 points to UMBC (53 in the 2nd half). While their offense certainly went cold, their defense let them down as well.

Wisconsin didn't reach the Final Four until Bo Ryan figured out the offense thing. That team scored in the 80s regularly.

As far as UVA, I mentioned that they are a little different than us. They do play pretty good offense. Their issues is that their pace keeps everyone in the game and eventually they get bitten when the other team gets hot. Their is also an element of rigidity to what they do that keeps them from making an adjustment when things aren't going their way (UMBC).

Wisconsins offensive rankings over the years before the national final:

2010- 20 with a pace ranking of 339
2011- 2 with a pace ranking of 344
2012- 25 with a pace ranking of 345
2013- 73 with a pace ranking of 317
2014- 4 with a pace ranking of 286
2015- 1 with a pace ranking of 345

When they went to the national title game, they scored 80 points (postseason only) one time in the opening round of the Big 10 tourney and 1 time in the NCAA tourney. They scored 75, 85, 69, 64 (including overtime), and 73 in the NCAA tourney. The next season they scored over 80 3 times in the postseason, one of those needing overtime to get to 80. They scored 86, 72, 79, 85, 71, and 63 in the NCAA tourney.

Points per possession tells us what we need to know. Total points tells us almost nothing.

Honestly, the only thing that tells us anything is points for and points against.

(12-13-2018 12:26 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  Our frontcourt has shown signs of being able to play (particularly Dickens), but they disappear far too often. If they can show some consistency, we may have a shot in March.

Our frontcourt has been very good defensively and not very good offensively. That is what most of us expected; the heart and soul of our team in on the perimeter. Our centers are not rebounding as well as I would like, but they are being picked up by Stith and Carver (and occationally our wings). What the big guys are doing well is blocking shots and keeping teams from scoring in the paint.

(12-14-2018 10:37 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 10:28 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 06:48 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  MTSU sucks this year and WKU and Marshall are struggling so far. I'm sure someone will all of the sudden turn into a world beater, but as of now, it looks like we have a shot.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The problem, as I see it, is not that there are teams that are significantly better than us. The problem is that under the JJ system, it seems extremely difficult for the team to win three tough games in three days. Part of the problem is that we win games throughout the season by being more committed to defense that anyone else. Come tournament time, everyone steps up their defense, and our advantage is decimated while our scoring problems are exacerbated. UVA faces the same issue btw, hence their underperforming in the NCAAT every year. They are not exactly the same as us, though, as they actually do run good offense.

Other teams that had similar commitment to defense than UVA had (and inferior offenses) include:

Cincy (won their conference tourney and lost in 3rd round)
Michigan (won their conference tourney and lost in finals)
Texas Tech (lost in Big 12 tourney and in the elite 8)
Syracuse (lost in ACC tourney and lost in sweet 16)


Those were your top 5 defenses (including UVA)

This thought that defense first doesn't do well in the postseason in nonsense.

Oh no... not another JacQuon Parker mention... LOL

(12-14-2018 10:27 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 10:44 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(12-13-2018 08:04 PM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  James drove the lane the whole tournament. If his legs got tired that would have diminished his ability. You are making too much of it.

What??? No he didn’t. This is patently untrue.

Where you there? No.

I was. Not every possession of course. But he penetrated a ton.

I was sitting courtside live blogging every second.

Try again.