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PGJMU2 Offline
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Post: #1
Making coaches biz
If this all works out, we deposit a check for $750k for releasing MH to work for ECU.
This after, depositing a check for $250 for EW to go to Tx St.

As DD pointed out, MH didnt make JMU football, MM did. EW brought social media and the juice, MH pulled it all together wtih a great set of assistants. The gap between JMU and everyone else in the caa in terms of support, facilities, fans is bigger than the gap between Alabama and the rest of the SEC. The floor for a good coach is 8-3 in an off year.

With the built in advantages of JMU, a good coach can position himself for a bigger job and bigger payday. We need to continue to cash in on that. Like 44 said, "you didnt build that", jmu did. oh, did i just do that .

For the next coach, we need to make it painful for them to cash in and leave for a sunbelt, CUSA, Mac, job., If they want to leave for aac, or a p5, we should get paid as well. Make if $500 for a g5 job and $1 million for a p5
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2018 11:07 AM by PGJMU2.)
12-02-2018 10:58 AM
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JMU13 Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
Well said.
12-02-2018 11:00 AM
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JMURocks Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 10:58 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  If this all works out, we deposit a check for $750k for releasing MH to work for ECU.
This after, depositing a check for $250 for EW to go to Tx St.

As DD pointed out, MH didnt make JMU football, MM did. EW brought social media and the juice, MH pulled it all together wtih a great set of assistants. The gap between JMU and everyone else in the caa in terms of support, facilities, fans is bigger than the gap between Alabama and the rest of the SEC. The floor for a good coach is 8-3 in an off year.

With the built in advantages of JMU, a good coach can position himself for a bigger job and bigger payday. We need to continue to cash in on that. Like 44 said, "you didnt build that", jmu did. oh, did i just do that .

For the next coach, we need to make it painful for them to cash in and leave for a sunbelt, CUSA job., Mac if they want to leave for aac, or a p5, we should get paid as well. Make if $500 for a g5 job and $1 million for a p5

Thats what it was for Houston, 500/G5, 750/AAC, 1M/P5
Thats too low, the ink didn't even dry before he was interviewing.

Some FBS assistants/coordinators have larger buyouts, and buyouts along the lines of "salary at current level or new team salary, whichever is higher" for the remainder of contract term. Some of these other teams courting him thought his buyout was $500k/year for the 10 year duration ... we didn't make this nearly high enough
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2018 11:12 AM by JMURocks.)
12-02-2018 11:10 AM
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Dukes84 Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
PG --

I actually think we got 325K for Withers. As I recall, that was his salary at JMU and Texas State doubled it to 650K. Withers was making 700K when he was just let go and his replacement is getting 800k at 33 years old. Looked him up late last night.
12-02-2018 11:26 AM
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JMURocks Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 11:26 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  PG --

I actually think we got 325K for Withers. As I recall, that was his salary at JMU and Texas State doubled it to 650K. Withers was making 700K when he was just let go and his replacement is getting 800k at 33 years old. Looked him up late last night.

Texas St renegged on paying it, and Withers talked us down at least 100k as best I recall, he didn't pay the full amount. That damn well better not happen this time, or we start to look extremely weak.
12-02-2018 11:29 AM
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Potomac Offline
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Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 11:29 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:26 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  PG --

I actually think we got 325K for Withers. As I recall, that was his salary at JMU and Texas State doubled it to 650K. Withers was making 700K when he was just let go and his replacement is getting 800k at 33 years old. Looked him up late last night.

Texas St renegged on paying it, and Withers talked us down at least 100k as best I recall, he didn't pay the full amount. That damn well better not happen this time, or we start to look extremely weak.

JMU needs to lawyer up if they don’t pay in full. We can’t keep bleeding money to job hopping coaches. It was sad they let withers get a $100K break.
12-02-2018 11:53 AM
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Bill Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 11:10 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 10:58 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  If this all works out, we deposit a check for $750k for releasing MH to work for ECU.
This after, depositing a check for $250 for EW to go to Tx St.

As DD pointed out, MH didnt make JMU football, MM did. EW brought social media and the juice, MH pulled it all together wtih a great set of assistants. The gap between JMU and everyone else in the caa in terms of support, facilities, fans is bigger than the gap between Alabama and the rest of the SEC. The floor for a good coach is 8-3 in an off year.

With the built in advantages of JMU, a good coach can position himself for a bigger job and bigger payday. We need to continue to cash in on that. Like 44 said, "you didnt build that", jmu did. oh, did i just do that .

For the next coach, we need to make it painful for them to cash in and leave for a sunbelt, CUSA job., Mac if they want to leave for aac, or a p5, we should get paid as well. Make if $500 for a g5 job and $1 million for a p5

Thats what it was for Houston, 500/G5, 750/AAC, 1M/P5
Thats too low, the ink didn't even dry before he was interviewing.

Some FBS assistants/coordinators have larger buyouts, and buyouts along the lines of "salary at current level or new team salary, whichever is higher" for the remainder of contract term. Some of these other teams courting him thought his buyout was $500k/year for the 10 year duration ... we didn't make this nearly high enough

I agree it's way too low. Next contract should be a 5 year deal with a $750k buyout if another FCS school, $2m for G5, $3m for P5. Lock the damn gates!
12-02-2018 12:31 PM
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KickItToScotty Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 12:31 PM)Bill Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:10 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 10:58 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  If this all works out, we deposit a check for $750k for releasing MH to work for ECU.
This after, depositing a check for $250 for EW to go to Tx St.

As DD pointed out, MH didnt make JMU football, MM did. EW brought social media and the juice, MH pulled it all together wtih a great set of assistants. The gap between JMU and everyone else in the caa in terms of support, facilities, fans is bigger than the gap between Alabama and the rest of the SEC. The floor for a good coach is 8-3 in an off year.

With the built in advantages of JMU, a good coach can position himself for a bigger job and bigger payday. We need to continue to cash in on that. Like 44 said, "you didnt build that", jmu did. oh, did i just do that .

For the next coach, we need to make it painful for them to cash in and leave for a sunbelt, CUSA job., Mac if they want to leave for aac, or a p5, we should get paid as well. Make if $500 for a g5 job and $1 million for a p5

Thats what it was for Houston, 500/G5, 750/AAC, 1M/P5
Thats too low, the ink didn't even dry before he was interviewing.

Some FBS assistants/coordinators have larger buyouts, and buyouts along the lines of "salary at current level or new team salary, whichever is higher" for the remainder of contract term. Some of these other teams courting him thought his buyout was $500k/year for the 10 year duration ... we didn't make this nearly high enough

I agree it's way too low. Next contract should be a 5 year deal with a $750k buyout if another FCS school, $2m for G5, $3m for P5. Lock the damn gates!

Anyone know how this(and Houston’s buyout) compares to other FCS schools? Don’t want to over play your hand and make a good coach seek other options that will make it less difficult to move on.
12-02-2018 01:10 PM
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JMURocks Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 01:10 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 12:31 PM)Bill Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:10 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 10:58 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  If this all works out, we deposit a check for $750k for releasing MH to work for ECU.
This after, depositing a check for $250 for EW to go to Tx St.

As DD pointed out, MH didnt make JMU football, MM did. EW brought social media and the juice, MH pulled it all together wtih a great set of assistants. The gap between JMU and everyone else in the caa in terms of support, facilities, fans is bigger than the gap between Alabama and the rest of the SEC. The floor for a good coach is 8-3 in an off year.

With the built in advantages of JMU, a good coach can position himself for a bigger job and bigger payday. We need to continue to cash in on that. Like 44 said, "you didnt build that", jmu did. oh, did i just do that .

For the next coach, we need to make it painful for them to cash in and leave for a sunbelt, CUSA job., Mac if they want to leave for aac, or a p5, we should get paid as well. Make if $500 for a g5 job and $1 million for a p5

Thats what it was for Houston, 500/G5, 750/AAC, 1M/P5
Thats too low, the ink didn't even dry before he was interviewing.

Some FBS assistants/coordinators have larger buyouts, and buyouts along the lines of "salary at current level or new team salary, whichever is higher" for the remainder of contract term. Some of these other teams courting him thought his buyout was $500k/year for the 10 year duration ... we didn't make this nearly high enough

I agree it's way too low. Next contract should be a 5 year deal with a $750k buyout if another FCS school, $2m for G5, $3m for P5. Lock the damn gates!

Anyone know how this(and Houston’s buyout) compares to other FCS schools? Don’t want to over play your hand and make a good coach seek other options that will make it less difficult to move on.

JMU is closer to a low level G5 than FCS in terms of pay and everything else.
12-02-2018 01:12 PM
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DoubleDDuke Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 11:53 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:29 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:26 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  PG --

I actually think we got 325K for Withers. As I recall, that was his salary at JMU and Texas State doubled it to 650K. Withers was making 700K when he was just let go and his replacement is getting 800k at 33 years old. Looked him up late last night.

Texas St renegged on paying it, and Withers talked us down at least 100k as best I recall, he didn't pay the full amount. That damn well better not happen this time, or we start to look extremely weak.

JMU needs to lawyer up if they don’t pay in full. We can’t keep bleeding money to job hopping coaches. It was sad they let withers get a $100K break.

Yeah, that is the first I've heard of that. Are you sure about that? If that actually happened you don't even need a lawyer. Hell, I could win that case and I've got less experience with the law than Vincent Gambini.
(This post was last modified: 12-02-2018 01:13 PM by DoubleDDuke.)
12-02-2018 01:12 PM
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fishingduke12 Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 01:10 PM)KickItToScotty Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 12:31 PM)Bill Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:10 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 10:58 AM)PGJMU2 Wrote:  If this all works out, we deposit a check for $750k for releasing MH to work for ECU.
This after, depositing a check for $250 for EW to go to Tx St.

As DD pointed out, MH didnt make JMU football, MM did. EW brought social media and the juice, MH pulled it all together wtih a great set of assistants. The gap between JMU and everyone else in the caa in terms of support, facilities, fans is bigger than the gap between Alabama and the rest of the SEC. The floor for a good coach is 8-3 in an off year.

With the built in advantages of JMU, a good coach can position himself for a bigger job and bigger payday. We need to continue to cash in on that. Like 44 said, "you didnt build that", jmu did. oh, did i just do that .

For the next coach, we need to make it painful for them to cash in and leave for a sunbelt, CUSA job., Mac if they want to leave for aac, or a p5, we should get paid as well. Make if $500 for a g5 job and $1 million for a p5

Thats what it was for Houston, 500/G5, 750/AAC, 1M/P5
Thats too low, the ink didn't even dry before he was interviewing.

Some FBS assistants/coordinators have larger buyouts, and buyouts along the lines of "salary at current level or new team salary, whichever is higher" for the remainder of contract term. Some of these other teams courting him thought his buyout was $500k/year for the 10 year duration ... we didn't make this nearly high enough

I agree it's way too low. Next contract should be a 5 year deal with a $750k buyout if another FCS school, $2m for G5, $3m for P5. Lock the damn gates!

Anyone know how this(and Houston’s buyout) compares to other FCS schools? Don’t want to over play your hand and make a good coach seek other options that will make it less difficult to move on.

I'd imagine it'd be one of the highest if not the highest in the FCS. Buyouts do work both ways so the school would have to pay to get rid of a coach. Not many FCS schools have the budget for that. I did read on bisonville that their coach had a lower buyout than houston
12-02-2018 01:14 PM
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JMaddy Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 11:53 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:29 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:26 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  PG --

I actually think we got 325K for Withers. As I recall, that was his salary at JMU and Texas State doubled it to 650K. Withers was making 700K when he was just let go and his replacement is getting 800k at 33 years old. Looked him up late last night.

Texas St renegged on paying it, and Withers talked us down at least 100k as best I recall, he didn't pay the full amount. That damn well better not happen this time, or we start to look extremely weak.

JMU needs to lawyer up if they don’t pay in full. We can’t keep bleeding money to job hopping coaches. It was sad they let withers get a $100K break.

The buyout is for the coach not the other school. What happens is the coach tells the other school “I’d love to work for you but you see I have this buyout” and they pay it off for him in order to get him. In Withers case TXST said “yeah of course we will” but he didn’t get it in writing I guess and they came back with “ummm on second thought” once he was under contract. It hurts their rep more than anything. Withers was lucky when he came back hat in hand JMU made a deal. Makes us look good actually. Not very ruthless but good people. Of course anyone who knows Bourne knows he is a good guy...no balls but good guy.

ECU isn’t dumb enough to do that to a coach.
12-02-2018 02:00 PM
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DoubleDDuke Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
So we didn't sue Withers because the optics would look bad when soliciting coaches in the future? F that, a contract is a contract. I'd hold Everett upside down by his ankles and shake every last penny out of his pockets.
12-02-2018 02:27 PM
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Dignan Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 02:00 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:53 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:29 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:26 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  PG --

I actually think we got 325K for Withers. As I recall, that was his salary at JMU and Texas State doubled it to 650K. Withers was making 700K when he was just let go and his replacement is getting 800k at 33 years old. Looked him up late last night.

Texas St renegged on paying it, and Withers talked us down at least 100k as best I recall, he didn't pay the full amount. That damn well better not happen this time, or we start to look extremely weak.

JMU needs to lawyer up if they don’t pay in full. We can’t keep bleeding money to job hopping coaches. It was sad they let withers get a $100K break.

The buyout is for the coach not the other school. What happens is the coach tells the other school “I’d love to work for you but you see I have this buyout” and they pay it off for him in order to get him. In Withers case TXST said “yeah of course we will” but he didn’t get it in writing I guess and they came back with “ummm on second thought” once he was under contract. It hurts their rep more than anything. Withers was lucky when he came back hat in hand JMU made a deal. Makes us look good actually. Not very ruthless but good people. Of course anyone who knows Bourne knows he is a good guy...no balls but good guy.

ECU isn’t dumb enough to do that to a coach.

I would imagine that paying for a candidates buyout would be treated as taxable wages. This would mean that if the buyout is 100k, the university helping pay for it would have to pay some employer based social security on top of the gross amount. Also, if the candidate needs the actual amount to be paid to buyout the contract they’d have to increase the gross in order to offset the income tax withholding, so it would be significantly more than the 100k in this example.

This is the case for someone I’m hiring right now, albeit it’s not in the US. I don’t imagine though that they can just give them this money without it being considered taxable income.
12-02-2018 05:50 PM
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DoubleDDuke Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
I don't know how this works exactly, but it's a common practice in any business. For example, I was considering taking a new job several years ago but my current company was paying for grad school so I was on the hook for it if I left. I informed the other company of that situation and they said they'd take care of it, which they did. I don't really know how it all worked behind the scenes. I just know they paid it but I'm not sure about how the whole taxable situation thing worked out. In the industry I work in there's a lot of turnover so I guess it's a pretty common thing.
12-02-2018 06:14 PM
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Purplehazed Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 02:27 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  So we didn't sue Withers because the optics would look bad when soliciting coaches in the future? F that, a contract is a contract. I'd hold Everett upside down by his ankles and shake every last penny out of his pockets.

03-lmfao
12-02-2018 06:22 PM
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JMaddy Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 02:27 PM)DoubleDDuke Wrote:  So we didn't sue Withers because the optics would look bad when soliciting coaches in the future? F that, a contract is a contract. I'd hold Everett upside down by his ankles and shake every last penny out of his pockets.

Essentially yes. That $100k is worth a lot less than our reputation down the road. Especially in a closed and close knit industry as coaching Div 1 NCAA athletics.
12-02-2018 10:59 PM
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Oldduke Offline
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RE: Making coaches biz
Our wonderful President has a law degree from Harvard. I'm sure he will step in and save the day for JMU and make sure we get the whole buyout amount from ECU/Houston.
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12-02-2018 11:27 PM
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Purple Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Making coaches biz
(12-02-2018 05:50 PM)Dignan Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 02:00 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:53 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:29 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:26 AM)Dukes84 Wrote:  PG --

I actually think we got 325K for Withers. As I recall, that was his salary at JMU and Texas State doubled it to 650K. Withers was making 700K when he was just let go and his replacement is getting 800k at 33 years old. Looked him up late last night.

Texas St renegged on paying it, and Withers talked us down at least 100k as best I recall, he didn't pay the full amount. That damn well better not happen this time, or we start to look extremely weak.

JMU needs to lawyer up if they don’t pay in full. We can’t keep bleeding money to job hopping coaches. It was sad they let withers get a $100K break.

The buyout is for the coach not the other school. What happens is the coach tells the other school “I’d love to work for you but you see I have this buyout” and they pay it off for him in order to get him. In Withers case TXST said “yeah of course we will” but he didn’t get it in writing I guess and they came back with “ummm on second thought” once he was under contract. It hurts their rep more than anything. Withers was lucky when he came back hat in hand JMU made a deal. Makes us look good actually. Not very ruthless but good people. Of course anyone who knows Bourne knows he is a good guy...no balls but good guy.

ECU isn’t dumb enough to do that to a coach.

I would imagine that paying for a candidates buyout would be treated as taxable wages. This would mean that if the buyout is 100k, the university helping pay for it would have to pay some employer based social security on top of the gross amount. Also, if the candidate needs the actual amount to be paid to buyout the contract they’d have to increase the gross in order to offset the income tax withholding, so it would be significantly more than the 100k in this example.

This is the case for someone I’m hiring right now, albeit it’s not in the US. I don’t imagine though that they can just give them this money without it being considered taxable income.

Are coaches employees? Seems like since they are under contract that they would be 1099 contractors. The school's half of their SS and Medicare contributions would be a pretty big number.
12-03-2018 01:23 AM
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Dignan Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Making coaches biz
(12-03-2018 01:23 AM)Purple Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 05:50 PM)Dignan Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 02:00 PM)JMaddy Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:53 AM)Potomac Wrote:  
(12-02-2018 11:29 AM)JMURocks Wrote:  Texas St renegged on paying it, and Withers talked us down at least 100k as best I recall, he didn't pay the full amount. That damn well better not happen this time, or we start to look extremely weak.

JMU needs to lawyer up if they don’t pay in full. We can’t keep bleeding money to job hopping coaches. It was sad they let withers get a $100K break.

The buyout is for the coach not the other school. What happens is the coach tells the other school “I’d love to work for you but you see I have this buyout” and they pay it off for him in order to get him. In Withers case TXST said “yeah of course we will” but he didn’t get it in writing I guess and they came back with “ummm on second thought” once he was under contract. It hurts their rep more than anything. Withers was lucky when he came back hat in hand JMU made a deal. Makes us look good actually. Not very ruthless but good people. Of course anyone who knows Bourne knows he is a good guy...no balls but good guy.

ECU isn’t dumb enough to do that to a coach.

I would imagine that paying for a candidates buyout would be treated as taxable wages. This would mean that if the buyout is 100k, the university helping pay for it would have to pay some employer based social security on top of the gross amount. Also, if the candidate needs the actual amount to be paid to buyout the contract they’d have to increase the gross in order to offset the income tax withholding, so it would be significantly more than the 100k in this example.

This is the case for someone I’m hiring right now, albeit it’s not in the US. I don’t imagine though that they can just give them this money without it being considered taxable income.

Are coaches employees? Seems like since they are under contract that they would be 1099 contractors. The school's half of their SS and Medicare contributions would be a pretty big number.

I believe they are employees, although I’m not experienced with dealing with labor contracts in the US. I know in normal jobs in the US contracts aren’t typical but in many other countries all employees have labor contracts. Just because their contracts are for a limited term doesn’t mean they’re not employees. The existence of a contract basically means that the employment is “stickier.” There are usually clauses that stipulate what happens in case of early termination by either side, as was the case with Houston.

As for the school’s half of SS and Medicare, that’s what I was referring to before although I’m not sure what the limits are on those over a full tax year. It’s possible that with the salary being so high he may have already reached a cutoff by which he no longer contributes more to SS.

That said, since he’s in a high tax bracket, having to pay a net amount equal to his buyout of $750k would be extremely expensive. I don’t know what the marginal income tax percentage is at that level but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s around 40-50%.
12-03-2018 02:26 AM
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