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Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
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the_blazerman Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
Anderson pretty much made our expectation levels higher than what they had been since Gene Bartow retired. Attendance was probably the best it had been since Gene's early years (arena size restrictions considered) and the best it has been since.

Davis, while he did have some good years still didn't get the attendance to what would be expected for the success level on a game by game basis. (not to go into details on his off the field and/or recruiting issues). I would consider AJ one of the main reasons for the team's success and attendance.

Haase never did get decent attendance even with the limited success that he achieved. His overall record still sucked. It didn't help that Watts got involved in the athletics program with his football decision as well as his bump in pay for Haase to try and phase out once and for all football.

Ehsan was definitely a part of the Haase era and hasn't done anything spectacular to draw back in the fans since taking over.

I believe Ehsan is a pretty good recruiter & person & is still learning as a coach however the fan support isn't going to be there until a leap in conference affiliation is done.

I do believe that the football saga seriously hurt basketball. While there was initial support of basketball because of the football issue I think ultimately it created a lot more interest in football and less in basketball.
12-06-2018 09:30 AM
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LairDweller Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
Again, people remember the attendance under Anderson as being better than it was.
In the past, every time this came up, I’d do a year by year attendance review and, as I recall, some of the Davis years were better than the Anderson years.

The one thing that’s been pretty consistent, regardless of Ws and Ls, attendance pretty much sucks unless the playing an opponent that attracts fans
(This post was last modified: 12-06-2018 10:42 AM by LairDweller.)
12-06-2018 10:42 AM
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Ranger1386c Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
I dont think football has hurt basketball. I think absolute mediocrity of opponents, conference, coaching and team has hurt basketball. The faithful 4,000 fans will participate for better or worse. The rest need a reason to show up at Bartow arena, in the midst of a week crowded with dozens of activities and entertainment options. What does UAB basketball offer that will draw them to Bartow? I ask that seriously, not to be sarcastic. What is the draw? I dont see one.

Football is a different story. This is a football state, obviously, so some inherent advantage there.

But football has a draw to the larger community, even without the return angle. Great coaching. Charisma. Constant competitiveness. Connection to the community. Owning home field advantage. Players who develop and play above themselves. Fierce competition. Drama. Comraderie among the team. A philosophy that looks beyond themselves. Relentless effort. The demand of excellence. Passion. Fire. Talented Players that play hard,
perhaps above themselves, and expect to win every game. A coach that makes you believe. Solid recruiting every year. Player developmemt. Incredible talent evaluation, turning left over late signee recruits into stars (see Garcia Williams and Crawford for examples). Did i mention player development?

Which of those also fit UAB basketball?

UAB basketball needs life and a leader. Haase was mediocre. Ehsan seems like a nice guy who may one day be a good head coach. But not yet. And the program is paying the price of him learning on the job. Will it pay off for UAB? I dont know but the early returns are not encouraging, particularly against teams with any decent talent level. This years recruiting is....i wont even put it in writing because i love the program and appreciate the players. Bottom line is that UAB basketball, particularly in this historically weak conference, should be MUCH more successful and exciting than this.

That is not the result of football investment and success. We have been on this trajectory for many years.


(12-06-2018 09:30 AM)the_blazerman Wrote:  Anderson pretty much made our expectation levels higher than what they had been since Gene Bartow retired. Attendance was probably the best it had been since Gene's early years (arena size restrictions considered) and the best it has been since.

Davis, while he did have some good years still didn't get the attendance to what would be expected for the success level on a game by game basis. (not to go into details on his off the field and/or recruiting issues). I would consider AJ one of the main reasons for the team's success and attendance.

Haase never did get decent attendance even with the limited success that he achieved. His overall record still sucked. It didn't help that Watts got involved in the athletics program with his football decision as well as his bump in pay for Haase to try and phase out once and for all football.

Ehsan was definitely a part of the Haase era and hasn't done anything spectacular to draw back in the fans since taking over.

I believe Ehsan is a pretty good recruiter & person & is still learning as a coach however the fan support isn't going to be there until a leap in conference affiliation is done.

I do believe that the football saga seriously hurt basketball. While there was initial support of basketball because of the football issue I think ultimately it created a lot more interest in football and less in basketball.
12-06-2018 10:43 AM
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Big Dee Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 10:42 AM)LairDweller Wrote:  Again, people remember the attendance under Anderson as being better than it was.
In the past, every time this came up, I’d do a year by year attendance review and, as I recall, some of the Davis years were better than the Anderson years.

The one thing that’s been pretty consistent, regardless of Ws and Ls, attendance pretty much sucks unless the playing an opponent that attracts fans

True.
12-06-2018 11:37 AM
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Big Dee Offline
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RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 07:23 AM)Ranger1386c Wrote:  No, losing two games didnt do that. Absolute mediocrity of play with the talent we had the past two years, plus a constant parade of crappy teams coming into Bartow, plus no real signature wins since the ncaa run a few years ago, plus a roster that inspires no hope for the confernece season, plus six wins over nobody teams. And all that within the multi year context of one of the worst basketball conferences in the country.

Here is the key question for this program. What is there for the casual UAB basketball fan to get excited about?

What should be attracting more fams? The talent? The coach? The recent history? Recruiting? The ethos of the program? The effort? The beauty or fun of the system Ehsan runs? The personality of our best player? The concession stands? The rowdy crowds? The popcorn? The halftime shows?

Help me out here. Why would the average Birmingham basketball fan get excited about UAB basketball today?

(12-05-2018 10:56 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  So losing two games has killed attendance this year. Man. Tough crowd

+1
12-06-2018 11:38 AM
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Big Dee Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 10:43 AM)Ranger1386c Wrote:  I dont think football has hurt basketball. I think absolute mediocrity of opponents, conference, coaching and team has hurt basketball. The faithful 4,000 fans will participate for better or worse. The rest need a reason to show up at Bartow arena, in the midst of a week crowded with dozens of activities and entertainment options. What does UAB basketball offer that will draw them to Bartow? I ask that seriously, not to be sarcastic. What is the draw? I dont see one.

Football is a different story. This is a football state, obviously, so some inherent advantage there.

But football has a draw to the larger community, even without the return angle. Great coaching. Charisma. Constant competitiveness. Connection to the community. Owning home field advantage. Players who develop and play above themselves. Fierce competition. Drama. Comraderie among the team. A philosophy that looks beyond themselves. Relentless effort. The demand of excellence. Passion. Fire. Talented Players that play hard,
perhaps above themselves, and expect to win every game. A coach that makes you believe. Solid recruiting every year. Player developmemt. Incredible talent evaluation, turning left over late signee recruits into stars (see Garcia Williams and Crawford for examples). Did i mention player development?

Which of those also fit UAB basketball?

UAB basketball needs life and a leader. Haase was mediocre. Ehsan seems like a nice guy who may one day be a good head coach. But not yet. And the program is paying the price of him learning on the job. Will it pay off for UAB? I dont know but the early returns are not encouraging, particularly against teams with any decent talent level. This years recruiting is....i wont even put it in writing because i love the program and appreciate the players. Bottom line is that UAB basketball, particularly in this historically weak conference, should be MUCH more successful and exciting than this.

That is not the result of football investment and success. We have been on this trajectory for many years.


(12-06-2018 09:30 AM)the_blazerman Wrote:  Anderson pretty much made our expectation levels higher than what they had been since Gene Bartow retired. Attendance was probably the best it had been since Gene's early years (arena size restrictions considered) and the best it has been since.

Davis, while he did have some good years still didn't get the attendance to what would be expected for the success level on a game by game basis. (not to go into details on his off the field and/or recruiting issues). I would consider AJ one of the main reasons for the team's success and attendance.

Haase never did get decent attendance even with the limited success that he achieved. His overall record still sucked. It didn't help that Watts got involved in the athletics program with his football decision as well as his bump in pay for Haase to try and phase out once and for all football.

Ehsan was definitely a part of the Haase era and hasn't done anything spectacular to draw back in the fans since taking over.

I believe Ehsan is a pretty good recruiter & person & is still learning as a coach however the fan support isn't going to be there until a leap in conference affiliation is done.

I do believe that the football saga seriously hurt basketball. While there was initial support of basketball because of the football issue I think ultimately it created a lot more interest in football and less in basketball.


This has to be the year or it's over. Benjamin looks like a good start to this year's recruiting, but looking at recruiting from 17 til now it's a mess especially if Bryant leave.
12-06-2018 11:41 AM
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The Answer UAB Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 07:23 AM)Ranger1386c Wrote:  No, losing two games didnt do that. Absolute mediocrity of play with the talent we had the past two years, plus a constant parade of crappy teams coming into Bartow, plus no real signature wins since the ncaa run a few years ago, plus a roster that inspires no hope for the confernece season, plus six wins over nobody teams. And all that within the multi year context of one of the worst basketball conferences in the country.

Here is the key question for this program. What is there for the casual UAB basketball fan to get excited about?

What should be attracting more fams? The talent? The coach? The recent history? Recruiting? The ethos of the program? The effort? The beauty or fun of the system Ehsan runs? The personality of our best player? The concession stands? The rowdy crowds? The popcorn? The halftime shows?

Help me out here. Why would the average Birmingham basketball fan get excited about UAB basketball today?

(12-05-2018 10:56 PM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  So losing two games has killed attendance this year. Man. Tough crowd

Can't agree more! Failure on all levels with the basketball program now. We're 6-2 only because we have beaten absolute bottom dwellers. We should hold ourselves to a higher standard. 6 wins against these teams is nothing.
12-06-2018 11:46 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
This is a young team learning to play together. Vi have no problem with the competition. It helps the team gel and hopefully will pay dividends later.
12-06-2018 11:54 AM
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Post: #49
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
Since this is still the Nick Norton thread, he's having a career year averaging 15 ppg on 54/43/91 shooting splits.
12-06-2018 12:00 PM
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Big Dee Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 12:00 PM)jthrashr Wrote:  Since this is still the Nick Norton thread, he's having a career year averaging 15 ppg on 54/43/91 shooting splits.

Honestly all the transfers are playing well. That's what makes this hard to watch. Truly slice and diced a vet team so he could get his guys in, they all outside of Darling are playing great.
12-06-2018 12:05 PM
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Post: #51
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 12:05 PM)Big Dee Wrote:  
(12-06-2018 12:00 PM)jthrashr Wrote:  Since this is still the Nick Norton thread, he's having a career year averaging 15 ppg on 54/43/91 shooting splits.

Honestly all the transfers are playing well. That's what makes this hard to watch. Truly slice and diced a vet team so he could get his guys in, they all outside of Darling are playing great.

Just realized Norton and Lavender will be conference foes. Lavender is leading a decent Valpo team in assists and minutes, and he's somehow second in rebounds. Also, he's averaging 9 ppg.
12-06-2018 12:27 PM
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Big Dee Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 12:27 PM)jthrashr Wrote:  
(12-06-2018 12:05 PM)Big Dee Wrote:  
(12-06-2018 12:00 PM)jthrashr Wrote:  Since this is still the Nick Norton thread, he's having a career year averaging 15 ppg on 54/43/91 shooting splits.

Honestly all the transfers are playing well. That's what makes this hard to watch. Truly slice and diced a vet team so he could get his guys in, they all outside of Darling are playing great.

Just realized Norton and Lavender will be conference foes. Lavender is leading a decent Valpo team in assists and minutes, and he's somehow second in rebounds. Also, he's averaging 9 ppg.


Yep, 9 points 6 assist. JD is doing well, and Smallwood is at 9 points 9 boards.
12-06-2018 12:41 PM
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bftb Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 10:43 AM)Ranger1386c Wrote:  I dont think football has hurt basketball. I think absolute mediocrity of opponents, conference, coaching and team has hurt basketball. The faithful 4,000 fans will participate for better or worse. The rest need a reason to show up at Bartow arena, in the midst of a week crowded with dozens of activities and entertainment options. What does UAB basketball offer that will draw them to Bartow? I ask that seriously, not to be sarcastic. What is the draw? I dont see one.

Football is a different story. This is a football state, obviously, so some inherent advantage there.

But football has a draw to the larger community, even without the return angle. Great coaching. Charisma. Constant competitiveness. Connection to the community. Owning home field advantage. Players who develop and play above themselves. Fierce competition. Drama. Comraderie among the team. A philosophy that looks beyond themselves. Relentless effort. The demand of excellence. Passion. Fire. Talented Players that play hard,
perhaps above themselves, and expect to win every game. A coach that makes you believe. Solid recruiting every year. Player developmemt. Incredible talent evaluation, turning left over late signee recruits into stars (see Garcia Williams and Crawford for examples). Did i mention player development?

Which of those also fit UAB basketball?

UAB basketball needs life and a leader. Haase was mediocre. Ehsan seems like a nice guy who may one day be a good head coach. But not yet. And the program is paying the price of him learning on the job. Will it pay off for UAB? I dont know but the early returns are not encouraging, particularly against teams with any decent talent level. This years recruiting is....i wont even put it in writing because i love the program and appreciate the players. Bottom line is that UAB basketball, particularly in this historically weak conference, should be MUCH more successful and exciting than this.

That is not the result of football investment and success. We have been on this trajectory for many years.


(12-06-2018 09:30 AM)the_blazerman Wrote:  Anderson pretty much made our expectation levels higher than what they had been since Gene Bartow retired. Attendance was probably the best it had been since Gene's early years (arena size restrictions considered) and the best it has been since.

Davis, while he did have some good years still didn't get the attendance to what would be expected for the success level on a game by game basis. (not to go into details on his off the field and/or recruiting issues). I would consider AJ one of the main reasons for the team's success and attendance.

Haase never did get decent attendance even with the limited success that he achieved. His overall record still sucked. It didn't help that Watts got involved in the athletics program with his football decision as well as his bump in pay for Haase to try and phase out once and for all football.

Ehsan was definitely a part of the Haase era and hasn't done anything spectacular to draw back in the fans since taking over.

I believe Ehsan is a pretty good recruiter & person & is still learning as a coach however the fan support isn't going to be there until a leap in conference affiliation is done.

I do believe that the football saga seriously hurt basketball. While there was initial support of basketball because of the football issue I think ultimately it created a lot more interest in football and less in basketball.

I agree. And let me add, one of the biggest problems with the basketball attendance is that our fan base in basketball is getting old. Some of us old-timers are still hanging on and don't miss games, and many are still supporting the program by buying tickets but not attending games. But you inevitably lose some older fans, and I don't see us adding any new younger fans, especially the past few years. And I agree, there is very little to get excited about with our current team, coach and schedule.
12-06-2018 04:27 PM
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UAB Schnauzer Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
We need to hire a coach from the Nolan Richardson Mike Anderson school. It’s a style that can be successful at our recruiting level and very enjoyable to watch
12-08-2018 10:28 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
Next time we have an opening that would be my first choice unless AK wants to go up tempo.
12-08-2018 10:30 AM
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Post: #56
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
I saw a real estate ad that featured Andy, his wife and 2 dogs.
They were boasting that the agent/broker did a great job in helping them get their new home.
I guess he is traveling out of BHM for his commentator gigs.
12-08-2018 11:48 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Nick norton -Drake vs North Dakota State
(12-06-2018 11:54 AM)Memphis Blazer Wrote:  This is a young team learning to play together. Vi have no problem with the competition. It helps the team gel and hopefully will pay dividends later.
Exactly!
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