(12-11-2018 05:12 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 11:24 AM)7 Wrote:  

(12-09-2018 10:22 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Sutton can fit either OLB or ILB. Those traditional positions have evolved greatly. Here’s bleachers report on both for 4-3 defenses.


on OLB
“So, today's 4-3 outside linebackers aren't really outside linebackers in the traditional sense. More often, they are asked to take care of their half of the field from the line of scrimmage to cornerback depth, as well as to blitz from the line of scrimmage and run delayed blitzes from linebacker depth. And just as is the case for every linebacker in the league now, they must take running backs through curl/flat coverage and tight ends up the seam.

Agility has always been a need at the position, but the modern 4-3 linebacker looks more like a strong safety a lot of the time—weighing in at 220-230 pounds, and racing all over the field with those multiple responsibilities. As the line between inside and outside linebacker blurs in any four-man front defense, the standout outside players make their presence known with their ability and willingness to take on a whole new level of athletic responsibility.“

on ILB
“With that in mind, inside linebackers are lighter and faster and more agile than ever before.

San Francisco's Reuben Foster, the consensus top inside linebacker in the 2017 draft, weighed in at the scouting combine at 229 pounds. Luke Kuechly and Bobby Wagner, known to most as the gold-standard players at the position, weigh in at about 240.”



So Forget D-end. There are no 6’ ends. He’s a LB. maybe Inside, maybe outside. The real question is - can he learn that position? He’s more than athletic enough, but what round are teams willing to take the chance of him transitioning successfully.

He would go undrafted as an ILB. His best skill is rushing the passer, why would you play him inside? He’s going to be a 3-4 outside linebacker.

ILB Roquan Smith is third in sacks on the Bears. No chance he goes udfa if labeled a OLB. He will probably be listed as OLB/ILB. It all depends on the scheme and what they want to do with him. Much like Roquan was looked at as a potential outside linebacker, Smith COULD easily be viewed as an extremely athletic MLB or ILB in a 3-4.

The only thing Roquan and Sutton have in common is they both play football and share a last name. You are comparing a sure fire 1st round draft pick and his NFL rookie season to a guy who might have to changes positions to be drafted.

(12-11-2018 10:46 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  I think what's best for him is best determined by SS himself and his family.

And I’m sure they will be determining this right after the bowl.

(12-11-2018 05:28 PM)Big_Man Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 05:12 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 11:24 AM)7 Wrote:  

(12-09-2018 10:22 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Sutton can fit either OLB or ILB. Those traditional positions have evolved greatly. Here’s bleachers report on both for 4-3 defenses.


on OLB
“So, today's 4-3 outside linebackers aren't really outside linebackers in the traditional sense. More often, they are asked to take care of their half of the field from the line of scrimmage to cornerback depth, as well as to blitz from the line of scrimmage and run delayed blitzes from linebacker depth. And just as is the case for every linebacker in the league now, they must take running backs through curl/flat coverage and tight ends up the seam.

Agility has always been a need at the position, but the modern 4-3 linebacker looks more like a strong safety a lot of the time—weighing in at 220-230 pounds, and racing all over the field with those multiple responsibilities. As the line between inside and outside linebacker blurs in any four-man front defense, the standout outside players make their presence known with their ability and willingness to take on a whole new level of athletic responsibility.“

on ILB
“With that in mind, inside linebackers are lighter and faster and more agile than ever before.

San Francisco's Reuben Foster, the consensus top inside linebacker in the 2017 draft, weighed in at the scouting combine at 229 pounds. Luke Kuechly and Bobby Wagner, known to most as the gold-standard players at the position, weigh in at about 240.”



So Forget D-end. There are no 6’ ends. He’s a LB. maybe Inside, maybe outside. The real question is - can he learn that position? He’s more than athletic enough, but what round are teams willing to take the chance of him transitioning successfully.

He would go undrafted as an ILB. His best skill is rushing the passer, why would you play him inside? He’s going to be a 3-4 outside linebacker.

ILB Roquan Smith is third in sacks on the Bears. No chance he goes udfa if labeled a OLB. He will probably be listed as OLB/ILB. It all depends on the scheme and what they want to do with him. Much like Roquan was looked at as a potential outside linebacker, Smith COULD easily be viewed as an extremely athletic MLB or ILB in a 3-4.

The only thing Roquan and Sutton have in common is they both play football and share a last name. You are comparing a sure fire 1st round draft pick and his NFL rookie season to a guy who might have to changes positions to be drafted.

Not the point at all. It’s about how LBers are used in today’s NFL. Only mentioned Roquan because he is rushing the passer from ILB. Also because they are the exact same size. ILB are no longer 250 lbs necessarily. Sutton has almost zero experience at LB so a team can use him how ever they want because of his athleticism. You can still rush the passer from the middle. And actually, Smith’s biggest trait is TFL’s.

(12-11-2018 06:11 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 05:28 PM)Big_Man Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 05:12 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 11:24 AM)7 Wrote:  

(12-09-2018 10:22 AM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  Sutton can fit either OLB or ILB. Those traditional positions have evolved greatly. Here’s bleachers report on both for 4-3 defenses.


on OLB
“So, today's 4-3 outside linebackers aren't really outside linebackers in the traditional sense. More often, they are asked to take care of their half of the field from the line of scrimmage to cornerback depth, as well as to blitz from the line of scrimmage and run delayed blitzes from linebacker depth. And just as is the case for every linebacker in the league now, they must take running backs through curl/flat coverage and tight ends up the seam.

Agility has always been a need at the position, but the modern 4-3 linebacker looks more like a strong safety a lot of the time—weighing in at 220-230 pounds, and racing all over the field with those multiple responsibilities. As the line between inside and outside linebacker blurs in any four-man front defense, the standout outside players make their presence known with their ability and willingness to take on a whole new level of athletic responsibility.“

on ILB
“With that in mind, inside linebackers are lighter and faster and more agile than ever before.

San Francisco's Reuben Foster, the consensus top inside linebacker in the 2017 draft, weighed in at the scouting combine at 229 pounds. Luke Kuechly and Bobby Wagner, known to most as the gold-standard players at the position, weigh in at about 240.”



So Forget D-end. There are no 6’ ends. He’s a LB. maybe Inside, maybe outside. The real question is - can he learn that position? He’s more than athletic enough, but what round are teams willing to take the chance of him transitioning successfully.

He would go undrafted as an ILB. His best skill is rushing the passer, why would you play him inside? He’s going to be a 3-4 outside linebacker.

ILB Roquan Smith is third in sacks on the Bears. No chance he goes udfa if labeled a OLB. He will probably be listed as OLB/ILB. It all depends on the scheme and what they want to do with him. Much like Roquan was looked at as a potential outside linebacker, Smith COULD easily be viewed as an extremely athletic MLB or ILB in a 3-4.

The only thing Roquan and Sutton have in common is they both play football and share a last name. You are comparing a sure fire 1st round draft pick and his NFL rookie season to a guy who might have to changes positions to be drafted.

Not the point at all. It’s about how LBers are used in today’s NFL. Only mentioned Roquan because he is rushing the passer from ILB. Also because they are the exact same size. ILB are no longer 250 lbs necessarily. Sutton has almost zero experience at LB so a team can use him how ever they want because of his athleticism. You can still rush the passer from the middle. And actually, Smith’s biggest trait is TFL’s.

Roquan and SS maybe same size but they are different players that play completely different positions. Yes, ILB's can rush the the passer but primary responsibility is to stop the run. An ILB has to have great instincts to the ball, running down hill without getting tangled with blockers. One wrong misstep and you let up a huge run. Roquan greatest ability, even back in Georgia, was a great nose for the football.

SS has not shown that he can or can not do this. It will be totally new to him since he essentially plays DE. Here he lines up on the line of scrimmage and goes forward every time, no read or instinct to the football necessary here. Never is he 5 yards off the ball asked to read and react and go make a play.

I think there is a risk to whoever takes him. If he is a DE/OLB he is too small.
If he plays ILB , it is a new position one that he has never played even in high school. That is why most projections have him going between 3rd and 6th round.

So the consensus is he can’t play DE in the NFL...and the reason is his size. If this logic prevailed he would have never started against BC last year when he was 220lbs. Someone had the balls to challenge conventional wisdom, and it created a 2 time All American. I think there will be somebody at he next level that will give the best collegiate player at that position, who has had two years to hone his skills, an opportunity to prove everyone wrong; and in the process redefine the position. Just an FYI, one of the reasons SS made the switch to DE was his performance in practice...NIU has a future NFL Offesnisve Tackle that simply could not block him. The staff saw this day in and day out, till somebody woke up and said, “why don’t we just move him there”.

(12-11-2018 08:22 PM)Djud Wrote:  So the consensus is he can’t play DE in the NFL...and the reason is his size. If this logic prevailed he would have never started against BC last year when he was 220lbs. Someone had the balls to challenge conventional wisdom, and it created a 2 time All American. I think there will be somebody at he next level that will give the best collegiate player at that position, who has had two years to hone his skills, an opportunity to prove everyone wrong; and in the process redefine the position. Just an FYI, one of the reasons SS made the switch to DE was his performance in practice...NIU has a future NFL Offesnisve Tackle that simply could not block him. The staff saw this day in and day out, till somebody woke up and said, “why don’t we just move him there”.

I think you are taking realism as an attack. I believe everyone here wants Sutton to be great, but it will certainly be a challenge. I think too many people here keep their NIU blinders on when NIU players make the NFL. I remember many members of this board who cried conspiracy when Jordan Lynch was cut and never picked up again. He too had monster stats in college, changed positions and never saw a snap in the NFL regular season. If someone can play, the NFL will find a way for them to play.

(12-11-2018 08:40 PM)Big_Man Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 08:22 PM)Djud Wrote:  So the consensus is he can’t play DE in the NFL...and the reason is his size. If this logic prevailed he would have never started against BC last year when he was 220lbs. Someone had the balls to challenge conventional wisdom, and it created a 2 time All American. I think there will be somebody at he next level that will give the best collegiate player at that position, who has had two years to hone his skills, an opportunity to prove everyone wrong; and in the process redefine the position. Just an FYI, one of the reasons SS made the switch to DE was his performance in practice...NIU has a future NFL Offesnisve Tackle that simply could not block him. The staff saw this day in and day out, till somebody woke up and said, “why don’t we just move him there”.

I think you are taking realism as an attack. I believe everyone here wants Sutton to be great, but it will certainly be a challenge. I think too many people here keep their NIU blinders on when NIU players make the NFL. I remember many members of this board who cried conspiracy when Jordan Lynch was cut and never picked up again. He too had monster stats in college, changed positions and never saw a snap in the NFL regular season. If someone can play, the NFL will find a way for them to play.

Stop the logic.

And can we please change thread to "Another NIU player to get screwed by NFL executives usually after getting bad info from scouts." Maybe we can work Herbstreit in here. Or the Illini Tire and how the board took them down!!!!

I’m not saying Sutton can’t play OLB. But some of you have it confused with OLB and pass rushing. He can play OLB, but it’s not solely because of his pass rushing ability. For OLB, there are zero in the top ten at sacks shorter than 6’3”. Those pass rushing OLB are DE hybrids. Of course some team can play Sutton there. But it’s not the obvious fit some of you think. But ILB, only 2 of the top 10 in tackles are as tall as 6’3”. The majaroity are 6’1ish. Someone said it takes a nose for the ball to play the middle. Um, ok. Sutton is 12th all time in tackles for loss in 2 years. TFL is a perfect measure for that. Khalil make is the all time tfl leader at 75 and he played 4 full years. Sutton has 58 in 2 years.

Point being, he’s not a DE. So some NFL team will gamble on his pass rushing skill at being an undersized OLB or gamble on his nose for the ball and perfect size for ILB. I think he can play either.

(12-11-2018 08:40 PM)Big_Man Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 08:22 PM)Djud Wrote:  So the consensus is he can’t play DE in the NFL...and the reason is his size. If this logic prevailed he would have never started against BC last year when he was 220lbs. Someone had the balls to challenge conventional wisdom, and it created a 2 time All American. I think there will be somebody at he next level that will give the best collegiate player at that position, who has had two years to hone his skills, an opportunity to prove everyone wrong; and in the process redefine the position. Just an FYI, one of the reasons SS made the switch to DE was his performance in practice...NIU has a future NFL Offesnisve Tackle that simply could not block him. The staff saw this day in and day out, till somebody woke up and said, “why don’t we just move him there”.

I think you are taking realism as an attack. I believe everyone here wants Sutton to be great, but it will certainly be a challenge. I think too many people here keep their NIU blinders on when NIU players make the NFL. I remember many members of this board who cried conspiracy when Jordan Lynch was cut and never picked up again. He too had monster stats in college, changed positions and never saw a snap in the NFL regular season. If someone can play, the NFL will find a way for them to play.

So what are you arguing? That he won't get drafted? Or he'll get drafted but not in the early rounds? Or he'll get drafted but won't be good enough? Those seem to be the only questions in this thread.

I think the transition to LB would be easier than Lynch trying to switch to RB, though still a challenge. I believe he'll get drafted but not in the early rounds since he needs to change positions. Obviously just a guess.

I think ILB makses sense for the NFL and don't forget SS is turning heads on special teams, which is a huge play for the NFL. I really hope he stays, and think staying is best for another year of size and growth overall. Being selfish I want him back too. Be fun to watch him develope in the NFL as well, what a talent and special young man. We have such good football in our own backyard, hard to believe more don't take advantage of our program.

(12-11-2018 11:22 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I’m not saying Sutton can’t play OLB. But some of you have it confused with OLB and pass rushing. He can play OLB, but it’s not solely because of his pass rushing ability. For OLB, there are zero in the top ten at sacks shorter than 6’3”. Those pass rushing OLB are DE hybrids. Of course some team can play Sutton there. But it’s not the obvious fit some of you think. But ILB, only 2 of the top 10 in tackles are as tall as 6’3”. The majaroity are 6’1ish. Someone said it takes a nose for the ball to play the middle. Um, ok. Sutton is 12th all time in tackles for loss in 2 years. TFL is a perfect measure for that. Khalil make is the all time tfl leader at 75 and he played 4 full years. Sutton has 58 in 2 years.

Point being, he’s not a DE. So some NFL team will gamble on his pass rushing skill at being an undersized OLB or gamble on his nose for the ball and perfect size for ILB. I think he can play either.

What reason is there to believe he can play ILB? Sure, I suppose it’s possible, but he hasn’t show anything to give a preview of what he can do at ILB.

He’s going to be a 3-4 OLB.

(12-11-2018 11:22 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I’m not saying Sutton can’t play OLB. But some of you have it confused with OLB and pass rushing. He can play OLB, but it’s not solely because of his pass rushing ability. For OLB, there are zero in the top ten at sacks shorter than 6’3”. Those pass rushing OLB are DE hybrids. Of course some team can play Sutton there. But it’s not the obvious fit some of you think. But ILB, only 2 of the top 10 in tackles are as tall as 6’3”. The majaroity are 6’1ish. Someone said it takes a nose for the ball to play the middle. Um, ok. Sutton is 12th all time in tackles for loss in 2 years. TFL is a perfect measure for that. Khalil make is the all time tfl leader at 75 and he played 4 full years. Sutton has 58 in 2 years.

Point being, he’s not a DE. So some NFL team will gamble on his pass rushing skill at being an undersized OLB or gamble on his nose for the ball and perfect size for ILB. I think he can play either.

Playing entire career on the line of scrimmage were it is a foot race between you and a big slow tackle versus playing 5 yards off the ball are 2 completely different skills. ILB main responsibility is stop the RUN. This has nothing to do with chasing down a running back from behind, and more to do with sniffing out the play, reacting and getting to the point of attack without mis-stepping. Something Sutton has never done. Infact, what QB is to offense, MLB is to defense (as far as difficulty in playing).

The point is, I do not think any team will take chance on a high draft pick for a player who has never played the position. Historically those type of guys go in round 6.

OLB is his spot, but his issue is not his weight but his height. The guy is 5'11 and it will be revealed when they measure him out.

All that being said, I want the dude to succeed. Ill be one of his biggest fans. Just being realistic.

Larry English was drafted pretty high, and had to move from DE to LB.

Sutton was a RB as well so I'm pretty sure he has a good understanding of the running game. There's no reason to think that he could not play ILB. But yes, it does make most sense that he'd be converted to OLB in the NFL. I'm sure whenever or however it works out, Sutton will be a very productive NFL player.

I know you all want the best for Sutton Smith and back his decision, whatever that is. I want what’s best for me.. so I want Sutton Smith one more year. I said it….. and I think it would be better for him, and me.

let me be clear, I don't think this would happen...but would be interesting if he came back, but played LB for NIU next year, if he really wants the NFL, and that's where he needs time/tape, and the coaching staff thinks he could excel there...

(12-12-2018 12:19 PM)JKHuskie45 Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 11:22 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I’m not saying Sutton can’t play OLB. But some of you have it confused with OLB and pass rushing. He can play OLB, but it’s not solely because of his pass rushing ability. For OLB, there are zero in the top ten at sacks shorter than 6’3”. Those pass rushing OLB are DE hybrids. Of course some team can play Sutton there. But it’s not the obvious fit some of you think. But ILB, only 2 of the top 10 in tackles are as tall as 6’3”. The majaroity are 6’1ish. Someone said it takes a nose for the ball to play the middle. Um, ok. Sutton is 12th all time in tackles for loss in 2 years. TFL is a perfect measure for that. Khalil make is the all time tfl leader at 75 and he played 4 full years. Sutton has 58 in 2 years.

Point being, he’s not a DE. So some NFL team will gamble on his pass rushing skill at being an undersized OLB or gamble on his nose for the ball and perfect size for ILB. I think he can play either.

Playing entire career on the line of scrimmage were it is a foot race between you and a big slow tackle versus playing 5 yards off the ball are 2 completely different skills. ILB main responsibility is stop the RUN. This has nothing to do with chasing down a running back from behind, and more to do with sniffing out the play, reacting and getting to the point of attack without mis-stepping. Something Sutton has never done. Infact, what QB is to offense, MLB is to defense (as far as difficulty in playing).

The point is, I do not think any team will take chance on a high draft pick for a player who has never played the position. Historically those type of guys go in round 6.

OLB is his spot, but his issue is not his weight but his height. The guy is 5'11 and it will be revealed when they measure him out.

All that being said, I want the dude to succeed. Ill be one of his biggest fans. Just being realistic.

Brian Urlacher college safety to NFL OLB to MLB, 1st rd, HOF
Harry Carson college DE to NFL ILB, 4th rd, HOF

I somewhat agree about the run stopper at ILB, but only in a 4-3. And more so if it was 2000 when everyone wanted ray lewis. But half the league plays a 3-4 these days. Of the 2 ILB's in a 3-4, the Mike has more run duty while the Will has the run-around-fast duty. If ILBs were just run stoppers today, then there wouldn't be so many weighing just 235-240. There's quite a few in the 220s. I'm suggesting the future of the position is a Roquon Smith type. A guy who can stop the run, but is also very versatile/athletic.

Teams will have a hard time not putting Smith Outside for his pass rushing. So I do give hime a 60% chance to end up at OLB. And you're right about his height. 6'0" in his shoes. So the gamble is making him the shortest OLB in the league. Do you want to be the GM who tells his boss he needs 12 million dollars to sign one of two OLBs, one who's 5'11" never played OLB and is from the MAC or the 6'4" guy from the Big10 who had a bit of a down senior season so he slipped to the 5th round? Most GMs don't like to take big chances.

If Im a GM I'd rather sell the idea of a crazy good/explosive athlete who has the right size to play Will and a nose for the ball, and hey, as a huge bonus he may be one of the best pass rushers in the draft. We are also getting him as a steal because he didn't play LB in college. He can play the will and let the Mike handle the defensive calls. At ILB the only negative is experience. At OLB it's experience, height and weight.

It will be super interesting to see how it ends up. I hope we don't find out for about 16 months

Smith got second team on the coaches all american list. Doesn’t look like he will be a consensus all american this season. Maybe he’ll use that as motivation for next season....

(12-12-2018 12:03 PM)7 Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 11:22 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I’m not saying Sutton can’t play OLB. But some of you have it confused with OLB and pass rushing. He can play OLB, but it’s not solely because of his pass rushing ability. For OLB, there are zero in the top ten at sacks shorter than 6’3”. Those pass rushing OLB are DE hybrids. Of course some team can play Sutton there. But it’s not the obvious fit some of you think. But ILB, only 2 of the top 10 in tackles are as tall as 6’3”. The majaroity are 6’1ish. Someone said it takes a nose for the ball to play the middle. Um, ok. Sutton is 12th all time in tackles for loss in 2 years. TFL is a perfect measure for that. Khalil make is the all time tfl leader at 75 and he played 4 full years. Sutton has 58 in 2 years.

Point being, he’s not a DE. So some NFL team will gamble on his pass rushing skill at being an undersized OLB or gamble on his nose for the ball and perfect size for ILB. I think he can play either.

What reason is there to believe he can play ILB? Sure, I suppose it’s possible, but he hasn’t show anything to give a preview of what he can do at ILB.

He’s going to be a 3-4 OLB.

He will be used in the same way Matthews is used by GB, Mack is used by the Bears. Call it what you want, he will be used in a role which capitalized on his unique skills. He gets to the QB which is a highly valued ability in the NFL. Smith will play on Sunday’s next season.

(12-13-2018 06:33 AM)Djud Wrote:  

(12-12-2018 12:03 PM)7 Wrote:  

(12-11-2018 11:22 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote:  I’m not saying Sutton can’t play OLB. But some of you have it confused with OLB and pass rushing. He can play OLB, but it’s not solely because of his pass rushing ability. For OLB, there are zero in the top ten at sacks shorter than 6’3”. Those pass rushing OLB are DE hybrids. Of course some team can play Sutton there. But it’s not the obvious fit some of you think. But ILB, only 2 of the top 10 in tackles are as tall as 6’3”. The majaroity are 6’1ish. Someone said it takes a nose for the ball to play the middle. Um, ok. Sutton is 12th all time in tackles for loss in 2 years. TFL is a perfect measure for that. Khalil make is the all time tfl leader at 75 and he played 4 full years. Sutton has 58 in 2 years.

Point being, he’s not a DE. So some NFL team will gamble on his pass rushing skill at being an undersized OLB or gamble on his nose for the ball and perfect size for ILB. I think he can play either.

What reason is there to believe he can play ILB? Sure, I suppose it’s possible, but he hasn’t show anything to give a preview of what he can do at ILB.

He’s going to be a 3-4 OLB.

He will be used in the same way Matthews is used by GB, Mack is used by the Bears. Call it what you want, he will be used in a role which capitalized on his unique skills. He gets to the QB which is a highly valued ability in the NFL. Smith will play on Sunday’s next season.

He will be the equivalent of a 5'9" QB if he plays the Jack linebacker in a 3-4. That's what Mathews and Mack play and they are the shortest Jack linebackers in the league at 6'3". That position is where Kerrigan, Chubb, Clowney, etc play. They're all 6'4",6'5". Smith will be lucky to measure 6'0". Not saying he can't, but he will be the league freak if he plays there.