https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/11/47220/

"In Sunday’s New York Times, Andrea Long Chu writes a heartfelt and heartbreaking op-ed on life with gender dysphoria. Titled “My New ****** Won’t Make Me Happy,” the op-ed reveals painful truths about many transgender lives and inadvertently communicates almost the exact opposite of its intended argument....

Indeed, as I document in When Harry Became Sally, the medical evidence suggests that sex reassignment does not adequately address the psychosocial difficulties faced by people who identify as transgender. Even when the procedures are successful technically and cosmetically, and even in cultures that are relatively “trans-friendly,” transitioners still face poor outcomes.

Even the Obama administration admitted that the best studies do not report improvement after reassignment surgery. In August 2016, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid wrote: “the four best designed and conducted studies that assessed quality of life before and after surgery using validated (albeit non-specific) psychometric studies did not demonstrate clinically significant changes or differences in psychometric test results after GRS [gender reassignment surgery]....”"

(11-26-2018 04:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/11/47220/

"In Sunday’s New York Times, Andrea Long Chu writes a heartfelt and heartbreaking op-ed on life with gender dysphoria. Titled “My New ****** Won’t Make Me Happy,” the op-ed reveals painful truths about many transgender lives and inadvertently communicates almost the exact opposite of its intended argument....

Indeed, as I document in When Harry Became Sally, the medical evidence suggests that sex reassignment does not adequately address the psychosocial difficulties faced by people who identify as transgender. Even when the procedures are successful technically and cosmetically, and even in cultures that are relatively “trans-friendly,” transitioners still face poor outcomes.

Even the Obama administration admitted that the best studies do not report improvement after reassignment surgery. In August 2016, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid wrote: “the four best designed and conducted studies that assessed quality of life before and after surgery using validated (albeit non-specific) psychometric studies did not demonstrate clinically significant changes or differences in psychometric test results after GRS [gender reassignment surgery]....”"

Does this really surprise anyone?

(11-27-2018 12:11 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(11-26-2018 04:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/11/47220/

"In Sunday’s New York Times, Andrea Long Chu writes a heartfelt and heartbreaking op-ed on life with gender dysphoria. Titled “My New ****** Won’t Make Me Happy,” the op-ed reveals painful truths about many transgender lives and inadvertently communicates almost the exact opposite of its intended argument....

Indeed, as I document in When Harry Became Sally, the medical evidence suggests that sex reassignment does not adequately address the psychosocial difficulties faced by people who identify as transgender. Even when the procedures are successful technically and cosmetically, and even in cultures that are relatively “trans-friendly,” transitioners still face poor outcomes.

Even the Obama administration admitted that the best studies do not report improvement after reassignment surgery. In August 2016, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid wrote: “the four best designed and conducted studies that assessed quality of life before and after surgery using validated (albeit non-specific) psychometric studies did not demonstrate clinically significant changes or differences in psychometric test results after GRS [gender reassignment surgery]....”"

Does this really surprise anyone?

Except in rare circumstances, transgenderism is simply a symptom of a deeper problem, not the problem itself. Just like the lack of health insurance is a symptom of high health costs, not the problem itself as Obama and the Democrats seem to think.

Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

(11-27-2018 12:11 PM)Oman Wrote:  

(11-26-2018 04:06 PM)bullet Wrote:  https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2018/11/47220/

"In Sunday’s New York Times, Andrea Long Chu writes a heartfelt and heartbreaking op-ed on life with gender dysphoria. Titled “My New ****** Won’t Make Me Happy,” the op-ed reveals painful truths about many transgender lives and inadvertently communicates almost the exact opposite of its intended argument....

Indeed, as I document in When Harry Became Sally, the medical evidence suggests that sex reassignment does not adequately address the psychosocial difficulties faced by people who identify as transgender. Even when the procedures are successful technically and cosmetically, and even in cultures that are relatively “trans-friendly,” transitioners still face poor outcomes.

Even the Obama administration admitted that the best studies do not report improvement after reassignment surgery. In August 2016, the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid wrote: “the four best designed and conducted studies that assessed quality of life before and after surgery using validated (albeit non-specific) psychometric studies did not demonstrate clinically significant changes or differences in psychometric test results after GRS [gender reassignment surgery]....”"

Does this really surprise anyone?

That was my first thought.

Wires crossed somewhere - this doesn't fix it........

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

So if a person is "in poverty" and their medical cost is going to go up...

why is this something a person should even be considering much less getting done? If a person is "in poverty" who's paying for this and all the increased medical costs?

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

There's an underlying problem. The fix is to figure out what that problem is. Surgery is not the fix.

(11-27-2018 03:01 PM)WKUYG Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

So if a person is "in poverty" and their medical cost is going to go up...

why is this something a person should even be considering much less getting done? If a person is "in poverty" who's paying for this and all the increased medical costs?

Desperation maybe? A desire to look how you feel? Same could be asked for impoverished folk who get any cosmetic work I guess.

For some trans persons, surgery has helped to a degree. But many forms of insurance cover the surgery (growing #). Also charitable organizations. The surgery itself isn't the big $. It's the hormone therapy and postoperative care that adds up.

An interesting question would be what is the differential cost for treatment of gender dysphoria vs. letting it run its course (and possibly financial dependence on the tax payer in other avenues). I don't know any sociologists who study the topic to ask. Maybe I'll do some pubmed searches later.

(11-27-2018 03:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

There's an underlying problem. The fix is to figure out what that problem is. Surgery is not the fix.

Surgery ALONE is not the fix. Many trans members of the community feel an uptick in self worth with hormone therapy alone for example and living life as 'passable'. Others don't feel it until the surgery. Some need neither and some both don't work.

I think pigeon holing a diverse community into one archetype is a problem both scientists and healthcare officials face... let alone we as a public and politicians at large.

(11-27-2018 03:11 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 03:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

There's an underlying problem. The fix is to figure out what that problem is. Surgery is not the fix.

Surgery ALONE is not the fix. Many trans members of the community feel an uptick in self worth with hormone therapy alone for example and living life as 'passable'. Others don't feel it until the surgery. Some need neither and some both don't work.

I think pigeon holing a diverse community into one archetype is a problem both scientists and healthcare officials face... let alone we as a public and politicians at large.

The problem is unique to each individual. Why one feels uncomfortable in his or her body can be totally different than another.

Quote:The problem is unique to each individual. Why one feels uncomfortable in his or her body can be totally different than another.

Preach. If I wanted to I could go run a decent half marathon today, I do yoga 3x a week, and am gearing up for a soccer tournament tonight... yet when I look in the mirror I still see myself as wildly out of shape.

Body dysmorphia sucks. I cannot imagine what it would be like to feel this about my gender identity vs chromosomal sex.

I feel like Brad Pitt, but I don't look like him. The Government and insurance companies should pay!

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

So should we allow people that are schizophrenic do whatever they want to themselves because they feel the voices in their head are real? Or should we give them them the psychological treatment they deserve?

So should we allow people with Body integrity dysphoria have surgeries to have perfectly good limbs removed because it'd make them feel better?
People with that disorder feel its cruel to force them to live with body parts that they do not want and do not feel are apart of them.
Or should we give them them the psychological treatment they deserve?

How is this any different than when a guy wants to have his p*nis cut off because he feels he shouldn't have it?

If you go down the road of, "Lets allow things that make you feel better about yourself" that leads to very dark places.

(11-27-2018 04:02 PM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

So should we allow people that are schizophrenic do whatever they want to themselves because they feel the voices in their head are real? Or should we give them them the psychological treatment they deserve?

So should we allow people with Body integrity dysphoria have surgeries to have perfectly good limbs removed because it'd make them feel better?
People with that disorder feel its cruel to force them to live with body parts that they do not want and do not feel are apart of them.
Or should we give them them the psychological treatment they deserve?

How is this any different than when a guy wants to have his p*nis cut off because he feels he shouldn't have it?

If you go down the road of, "Lets allow things that make you feel better about yourself" that leads to very dark places.

Honestly, if an adult wants to cut off their arm, leg, or dick, they should be allowed if they can pay for it. They should also waive any future eligibility for disability or any other government subsidy resulting from the removal of that part or any psychological issues resulting from it.

(11-27-2018 04:08 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 04:02 PM)q5sys Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:53 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:09 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(11-27-2018 02:04 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Changing superficial anatomy doesn't change societal stigma, get you out of poverty or change your SES, change familial relations, change underlying depressive disorders or dysphoria... it can help but it won't completely change your life, your brain makeup...

So it's unsurprising that surgery alone isn't the fix. Societal changes, therapy, surgery, hormone therapy... there's an all of the above approach that's needed here.

Actually, its "none of the above". This is like trying to "fix" an alcoholic by irreversibly converting his house into a pub.

None of the above is why we have higher suicide and homicide rates, higher rates in homelessness, lower SES, and increased medical costs for trans populations. So your 'do nothing' approach ain't workin.... and its certainly cruel.

Either offer an alternative solution or get off your soap box.

So should we allow people that are schizophrenic do whatever they want to themselves because they feel the voices in their head are real? Or should we give them them the psychological treatment they deserve?

So should we allow people with Body integrity dysphoria have surgeries to have perfectly good limbs removed because it'd make them feel better?
People with that disorder feel its cruel to force them to live with body parts that they do not want and do not feel are apart of them.
Or should we give them them the psychological treatment they deserve?

How is this any different than when a guy wants to have his p*nis cut off because he feels he shouldn't have it?

If you go down the road of, "Lets allow things that make you feel better about yourself" that leads to very dark places.

Honestly, if an adult wants to cut off their arm, leg, or dick, they should be allowed if they can pay for it. They should also waive any future eligibility for disability or any other government subsidy resulting from the removal of that part or any psychological issues resulting from it.

While agree with that sentiment... the problem is that once we take that first step, leftists will come out with news pieces about these poor people that are homeless and unable to provide for themselves because they had their legs cut off or because they blinded themselves [source - https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/real-life-...er-6552282 ] ... and they'll end up getting a hand out from the gov. You'll never be able to force an agenda where people are ultimately responsible for their own actions. The leftists who want more power, control and money. Will turn it into a sob story to push high taxes and expanding the welfare caste.

Leftists prey on peoples sympathy and the warm psychological feelings people get when they think they are helping someone. These people will end up on the dole, because it'll make John and Jane Q Public feel better about themselves for trying to help people.

It's the same thing with most outrage/sympathy agendas. People want to feel good about helping others... so they help push an agenda. They have no real care about what ACTUALLY happens, they just want the momentary dopamine rush for feeling like a moral person.

I really don’t care what people do to themselves so long as they are self funded, but invariably, they want this stuff done and have someone else pay for it.

IMO, anyone that wants to change their sex has plenty more issues mentally than just that.....they somehow think that if they can just switch sexes, everything will be okay. So they have it done - and find out, alas- they’re still a mental mess.

(11-27-2018 03:09 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Desperation maybe? A desire to look how you feel? Same could be asked for impoverished folk who get any cosmetic work I guess.

For some trans persons, surgery has helped to a degree. But many forms of insurance cover the surgery (growing #). Also charitable organizations. The surgery itself isn't the big $. It's the hormone therapy and postoperative care that adds up.

An interesting question would be what is the differential cost for treatment of gender dysphoria vs. letting it run its course (and possibly financial dependence on the tax payer in other avenues). I don't know any sociologists who study the topic to ask. Maybe I'll do some pubmed searches later.

Feelings =/= truth. Many serial killers "feel" they need to kill to be "happy/fulfilled" It does not make it objectively right for them to do so.
Enabling is cruel, and that is what is being "done" to these people, who instead need a lot of help and compassion, without the knife. But the knife is quicker, easier. Therapy takes years, and involves facing painful truths, usually involving severe disorder in childhood family environment, which is where the true problem lies.