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Old Dominion Online
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Post: #21
RE: That did not take long
That's right. BW is the only common denominator on the defensive side. So far the offense is virtually unchanged for the past few years.
11-25-2018 06:10 PM
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AimHigh Offline
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Post: #22
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 05:58 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:41 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:46 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:00 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  As long as Scott and Whitcomb remain, so does the current philosophy/thought process.

agreed

I don't know. Could you make the argument that BW controls Scott's decision making? What if the lack of creativity is more a function of a very stubborn head coach unwilling to listen to his Coordinators?

We are coming up on our 4th DC. If we continue to see a below standard defense, I think we'll know where the problem lies.

If that is really the case, it won't matter who the replacements are

It very well could be possible. The interview after the VT upset Wilder said Scott came to him before the game and said if we have any chance to beat VT LaRussa has to play. I personally think Wilder gets himself invested into the quarterback position. The two QB's he has hyped that weren't named TH was Shuler Bentley and Steven Williams. When he talked about them two qb he was overly excited but then reality hits and he goes back to his backup David Washington and Blake LaRussa.
11-25-2018 06:12 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #23
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 05:46 PM)The Doctor Is In Wrote:  Recruiting coordinator position is listed at $58K

On top of the coaches salary, in guessing.
11-25-2018 06:12 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #24
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 05:36 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The one year they hd a solid defense, they won 10 games (including a bowl game). They were blowing people out. They have consistently put out really good offenses from the start. A decent defense would go a long way; hopefully they find the right guy.

I am not sure that I would describe the 2016 defense as "solid".
Total defense was 96th in the Nation and more importantly 4th worst in CUSA , against arguably the easiest schedule (relatively) we faced since 2009.
Our blowouts were a result of David Washington and an anomalous schedule.
We beat EMU by 4, and they were arguably the weakest FBS team to receive a bowl bid.

They were ranked in the 60s based on footballoutsiders. That is good. Total defense is a meaningless stat that doesnt account for garbage time stats.

My stats were from NCAA.com. respected and certainly not a voodoo site.

You don't find it odd that the only season we seemed to have any semblance of a defense was the season we played 9 teams with losing records, but were blown out by the three teams with winning records?
Even if somehow we really did have a solid defense that one season, (I disagree with that, as proven by our losses) then don't you find it odd that we had a respectable defense for only that one season in ten?

Additionally, we have the rushing issue.
Assuming we didn't particularly want to rush during the Heinicke era, doesn't it strike you as odd that the only season post TH that we showed an ability to rush consistently was that same season?

I personally don't believe in the above coincidences. I believe we need changes on both sides of the ball.

04-cheers
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2018 06:40 PM by ODUalum78.)
11-25-2018 06:26 PM
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ODUi Offline
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Post: #25
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:12 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:46 PM)The Doctor Is In Wrote:  Recruiting coordinator position is listed at $58K

On top of the coaches salary, in guessing.

Bout to say the same thing... I would hope that's 58k in addition to the coaching salary.
11-25-2018 06:27 PM
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CalODUFan Online
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Post: #26
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 04:00 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  As long as Scott and Whitcomb remain, so does the current philosophy/thought process.

One possible advantage of keeping that "circle of trust" together is that it keeps solid our most important recruit, Hayden Wolff.
11-25-2018 06:35 PM
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north beach monarch Offline
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Post: #27
RE: That did not take long
We’re looking at a 3 win season next year. It’s a Long way to move for 1 year. Any hot young assistant will know BW time is short. Be interesting to see Who would come here.
11-25-2018 06:36 PM
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ODUDJ96 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:35 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:00 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  As long as Scott and Whitcomb remain, so does the current philosophy/thought process.

One possible advantage of keeping that "circle of trust" together is that it keeps solid our most important recruit, Hayden Wolff.

Excellent point! Wolff could be our next Heinicke. Don’t want to rock that boat.
11-25-2018 06:39 PM
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AimHigh Offline
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Post: #29
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:39 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:35 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:00 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  As long as Scott and Whitcomb remain, so does the current philosophy/thought process.

One possible advantage of keeping that "circle of trust" together is that it keeps solid our most important recruit, Hayden Wolff.

Excellent point! Wolff could be our next Heinicke. Don’t want to rock that boat.

Or he could be the next Tommy Reamon Jr, Shuler Bently and to a degree Steven Williams. 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot
11-25-2018 06:49 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #30
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:26 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:36 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The one year they hd a solid defense, they won 10 games (including a bowl game). They were blowing people out. They have consistently put out really good offenses from the start. A decent defense would go a long way; hopefully they find the right guy.

My stats were from NCAA.com, certainly not a voodoo site.

I am not sure that I would describe the 2016 defense as "solid".
Total defense was 96th in the Nation and more importantly 4th worst in CUSA , against arguably the easiest schedule (relatively) we faced since 2009.
Our blowouts were a result of David Washington and an anomalous schedule.
We beat EMU by 4, and they were arguably the weakest FBS team to receive a bowl bid.

They were ranked in the 60s based on footballoutsiders. That is good. Total defense is a meaningless stat that doesnt account for garbage time stats.

My stats were from NCAA.com. respected and certainly not a voodoo site.

You don't find it odd that the only season we seemed to have any semblance of a defense was the season we played 9 teams with losing records, but were blown out by the three teams with winning records?
Even if somehow we really did have a solid defense that one season, (I disagree with that, as proven by our losses) then don't you find it odd that we had a respectable defense for only that one season in ten?

Additionally, we have the rushing issue.
Assuming we didn't particularly want to rush during the Heinicke era, doesn't it strike you as odd that the only season post TH that we showed an ability to rush consistently was that same season?

I personally don't believe in the above coincidences. I believe we need changes on both sides of the ball.

04-cheers

No one called them voodoo, they are just pointless because they dont accountfor garbage time stats or level of competition.

I dont find it odd at all. Every year is different. That year, the defense was good. Almost every other year (a couple were decent) was not good. This past year was extremely bad and possibly the worse its ever been since moving to FBS.

Rushing offense has rarely been an issue. It wasnt in FCS and since moving up, It was ranked 55 in 2014, and top 50 in 15 and 16. The last 2 years have not been good, but I would venture to guess Davis and Knoght change that next year.
11-25-2018 06:50 PM
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ODUDJ96 Offline
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Post: #31
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:49 PM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:39 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:35 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:00 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  As long as Scott and Whitcomb remain, so does the current philosophy/thought process.

One possible advantage of keeping that "circle of trust" together is that it keeps solid our most important recruit, Hayden Wolff.

Excellent point! Wolff could be our next Heinicke. Don’t want to rock that boat.

Or he could be the next Tommy Reamon Jr, Shuler Bently and to a degree Steven Williams. 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot

...or he could be the next Heinicke04-rock04-rock04-rock
11-25-2018 06:52 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #32
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:36 PM)north beach monarch Wrote:  We’re looking at a 3 win season next year. It’s a Long way to move for 1 year. Any hot young assistant will know BW time is short. Be interesting to see Who would come here.
With a returning senior QB and almost everyone back except for WR, DE, and S; Wilder wont coach another year if next year results in 3 wins.
11-25-2018 06:52 PM
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AimHigh Offline
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Post: #33
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:52 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:49 PM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:39 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:35 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:00 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  As long as Scott and Whitcomb remain, so does the current philosophy/thought process.

One possible advantage of keeping that "circle of trust" together is that it keeps solid our most important recruit, Hayden Wolff.

Excellent point! Wolff could be our next Heinicke. Don’t want to rock that boat.

Or he could be the next Tommy Reamon Jr, Shuler Bently and to a degree Steven Williams. 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot

...or he could be the next Heinicke04-rock04-rock04-rock

Lets both hope you're right! 04-cheers 04-cheers
11-25-2018 06:54 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #34
RE: That did not take long
Or he could be the next Jake Bentley. :)
11-25-2018 06:55 PM
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ODUDJ96 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:54 PM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:52 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:49 PM)AimHigh Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:39 PM)ODUDJ96 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:35 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  One possible advantage of keeping that "circle of trust" together is that it keeps solid our most important recruit, Hayden Wolff.

Excellent point! Wolff could be our next Heinicke. Don’t want to rock that boat.

Or he could be the next Tommy Reamon Jr, Shuler Bently and to a degree Steven Williams. 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot 05-stirthepot

...or he could be the next Heinicke04-rock04-rock04-rock

Lets both hope you're right! 04-cheers 04-cheers

04-cheers
11-25-2018 06:55 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #36
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:50 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:26 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:36 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:39 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  The one year they hd a solid defense, they won 10 games (including a bowl game). They were blowing people out. They have consistently put out really good offenses from the start. A decent defense would go a long way; hopefully they find the right guy.

My stats were from NCAA.com, certainly not a voodoo site.

I am not sure that I would describe the 2016 defense as "solid".
Total defense was 96th in the Nation and more importantly 4th worst in CUSA , against arguably the easiest schedule (relatively) we faced since 2009.
Our blowouts were a result of David Washington and an anomalous schedule.
We beat EMU by 4, and they were arguably the weakest FBS team to receive a bowl bid.

They were ranked in the 60s based on footballoutsiders. That is good. Total defense is a meaningless stat that doesnt account for garbage time stats.

My stats were from NCAA.com. respected and certainly not a voodoo site.

You don't find it odd that the only season we seemed to have any semblance of a defense was the season we played 9 teams with losing records, but were blown out by the three teams with winning records?
Even if somehow we really did have a solid defense that one season, (I disagree with that, as proven by our losses) then don't you find it odd that we had a respectable defense for only that one season in ten?

Additionally, we have the rushing issue.
Assuming we didn't particularly want to rush during the Heinicke era, doesn't it strike you as odd that the only season post TH that we showed an ability to rush consistently was that same season?

I personally don't believe in the above coincidences. I believe we need changes on both sides of the ball.

04-cheers

No one called them voodoo, they are just pointless because they dont accountfor garbage time stats or level of competition.

I dont find it odd at all. Every year is different. That year, the defense was good. Almost every other year (a couple were decent) was not good. This past year was extremely bad and possibly the worse its ever been since moving to FBS.

Rushing offense has rarely been an issue. It wasnt in FCS and since moving up, It was ranked 55 in 2014, and top 50 in 15 and 16. The last 2 years have not been good, but I would venture to guess Davis and Knoght change that next year.

Rarely and issue?
Rushing offense, or lack thereof, was a big part of the lack of success of Shuler Bentley, as well as Steve Williams.
11-25-2018 06:58 PM
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GotLabradors Offline
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Post: #37
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:35 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 04:00 PM)GotLabradors Wrote:  As long as Scott and Whitcomb remain, so does the current philosophy/thought process.

One possible advantage of keeping that "circle of trust" together is that it keeps solid our most important recruit, Hayden Wolff.

I don't have any faith in their ability to evaluate QB talent.
Also, Wolff changed schools his senior year to chase a state championship. His ability to be loyal is suspect in my eye. I am not counting on him until he is on campus and in camp.
(This post was last modified: 11-25-2018 07:04 PM by GotLabradors.)
11-25-2018 06:59 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #38
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 06:58 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:50 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:26 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:36 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:03 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  My stats were from NCAA.com, certainly not a voodoo site.

I am not sure that I would describe the 2016 defense as "solid".
Total defense was 96th in the Nation and more importantly 4th worst in CUSA , against arguably the easiest schedule (relatively) we faced since 2009.
Our blowouts were a result of David Washington and an anomalous schedule.
We beat EMU by 4, and they were arguably the weakest FBS team to receive a bowl bid.

They were ranked in the 60s based on footballoutsiders. That is good. Total defense is a meaningless stat that doesnt account for garbage time stats.

My stats were from NCAA.com. respected and certainly not a voodoo site.

You don't find it odd that the only season we seemed to have any semblance of a defense was the season we played 9 teams with losing records, but were blown out by the three teams with winning records?
Even if somehow we really did have a solid defense that one season, (I disagree with that, as proven by our losses) then don't you find it odd that we had a respectable defense for only that one season in ten?

Additionally, we have the rushing issue.
Assuming we didn't particularly want to rush during the Heinicke era, doesn't it strike you as odd that the only season post TH that we showed an ability to rush consistently was that same season?

I personally don't believe in the above coincidences. I believe we need changes on both sides of the ball.

04-cheers

No one called them voodoo, they are just pointless because they dont accountfor garbage time stats or level of competition.

I dont find it odd at all. Every year is different. That year, the defense was good. Almost every other year (a couple were decent) was not good. This past year was extremely bad and possibly the worse its ever been since moving to FBS.

Rushing offense has rarely been an issue. It wasnt in FCS and since moving up, It was ranked 55 in 2014, and top 50 in 15 and 16. The last 2 years have not been good, but I would venture to guess Davis and Knoght change that next year.

Rarely and issue?
Rushing offense, or lack thereof, was a big part of the lack of success of Shuler Bentley, as well as Steve Williams.

In 2015 (Bentley)Lawry rushed for 5.9 ypc and Cox 5.1. They had ~1500 yards on 250ish carries. They ranked about 100th in rushing offense.

You picked out the only 2 years where rushing would even be considered an issue (15, 17) wnd it really wasnt terrible in 2015. Thus, its rarely an issue.
11-25-2018 07:21 PM
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ODUalum78 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: That did not take long
(11-25-2018 07:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:58 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:50 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 06:26 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  
(11-25-2018 05:36 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  They were ranked in the 60s based on footballoutsiders. That is good. Total defense is a meaningless stat that doesnt account for garbage time stats.

My stats were from NCAA.com. respected and certainly not a voodoo site.

You don't find it odd that the only season we seemed to have any semblance of a defense was the season we played 9 teams with losing records, but were blown out by the three teams with winning records?
Even if somehow we really did have a solid defense that one season, (I disagree with that, as proven by our losses) then don't you find it odd that we had a respectable defense for only that one season in ten?

Additionally, we have the rushing issue.
Assuming we didn't particularly want to rush during the Heinicke era, doesn't it strike you as odd that the only season post TH that we showed an ability to rush consistently was that same season?

I personally don't believe in the above coincidences. I believe we need changes on both sides of the ball.

04-cheers

No one called them voodoo, they are just pointless because they dont accountfor garbage time stats or level of competition.

I dont find it odd at all. Every year is different. That year, the defense was good. Almost every other year (a couple were decent) was not good. This past year was extremely bad and possibly the worse its ever been since moving to FBS.

Rushing offense has rarely been an issue. It wasnt in FCS and since moving up, It was ranked 55 in 2014, and top 50 in 15 and 16. The last 2 years have not been good, but I would venture to guess Davis and Knoght change that next year.

Rarely and issue?
Rushing offense, or lack thereof, was a big part of the lack of success of Shuler Bentley, as well as Steve Williams.

In 2015 (Bentley)Lawry rushed for 5.9 ypc and Cox 5.1. They had ~1500 yards on 250ish carries. They ranked about 100th in rushing offense.

You picked out the only 2 years where rushing would even be considered an issue (15, 17) wnd it really wasnt terrible in 2015. Thus, its rarely an issue.

I it was terrible this year, and I believe that it contributed to losses and/or poor performances even during the TH era, either when he had a bad day or the defenses solved our red zone offense. It has always been one dimensional and, except for that anomalous 2016 has never been "good"
11-25-2018 07:55 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #40
RE: That did not take long
I consider top 50 at our level to be good. So, I consider it good for several years.
11-25-2018 08:18 PM
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