(12-04-2018 05:00 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Here is what is really perplexing to me the same folks that were all pissed off about EW leaving after 2 years for an FBS opportunity and big pay bump (who also kept his business out of the public during the playoffs) are all good about MH leaving and creating a media circus around the team during playoff prep.

It must be b/c folks like MH so it is 'ok' whereas folks did not like EW. I thought EW was kind of ass and poor with the media, but he handled this far better.

He handled it better by getting knocked out in the first week.

There was quite a few of us that were not sorry to see Withers go. My thoughts were I would of preferred to see one more year, but I did not feel he was a good coach. To me he was the complete opposite to Mike Houston how he handled himself. Mike handled public appearances with class. I was a little embarrassed the way Withers acted at press conferences. That apparently continued at Texas State. It wasn't just one reporter at the DNR. It was many reporters at JMU and Texas St. Also did not like how Withers blamed the players saying the coaches had positioned them right.
Did you ever notice how when we won Houston allowed the players to be on their own at the post game press conference, and when we lost he sat with them? He allowed the players to shine and was with them in defeat.

I've talked to tons of parents and players through the years. I've never found a coach that some parents or players were not happy about. I know that has been the case with Keener, Lefty, Matthews, Withers, and Houston. Usually it was people that did not feel they were not playing enough. But Houston I think overall did as well as any other coach in appreciation from the players.

(12-04-2018 04:53 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 04:42 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 04:11 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 03:35 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Oh, I'm not advocating that what happened was in the best interest of our team, just that Bourne loves Houston. It's quite obvious in the way they've allowed him to transition.

Not saying it's right. Just no way Bourne would have gotten rid of him.

Gotcha and I agree that is obvious. JMU and Bourne did not have to be jerks about the transition.....but it seems as if Bourne and the athletic dept bent over backward to be fair to Mike Houston. That is NOT their job he is an employee, nothing more as MH made crystal clear......the commitment should have been toward what was in the best interest of the student athletes period.

But Shady - what is in the best interest of the student athletes is subjective. I and I suspect many others thought having Mike coach was in each's best interest. There's probably rights and wrongs on both sides, but I don't think Bourne made a decision, thinking it was not in the best interest of the players. The team I saw Saturday really looked like they came to play. They did not come out looking flat, and distracted. If not for the turnovers, it probably would not of even been a game.

Dukester --- I was at the game on Saturday, close enough behind the defensive huddle you could clearly hear players and coaches. There was a very weird vibe on the sideline and it was crystal clear the players were focused and tuned into their position coaches - coordinators.........but when Houston came over they immediately kind of 'glassed over' and were not interested in anything he had to say.....and when he left focused back it.

I am not saying Houston is a bad guy or good guy (not making that judgement) he just is NOT my guy anymore so I really could care less about him moving forward or once it was clear he was no longer 'all-in' with JMU. It is impossible to be running down to Charlotte and and dealing with contract discussions all the way back to Tuesday and be fully engaged in game prep for the playoffs. And if you don't think players sense this and know when things are no longer 'real' I don't know what to tell you. I am not saying the players did not like Houston anymore or respect him, but they were kind of over him mid-week last week. It is business and that is cool, but Houston had already moved on. It is not about being mad or unprofessional......there are many interim coaches each year during bowl season for this very reason. Put it this way, had JMU won on Saturday, ECU would have still announced Houston as new coach on Monday, b/c it is a business and they had too........and JMU would have then had to name an interim coach. ECU was simply not gonna let Houston hang out in Harrisonburg until the playoffs were and that is reasonable.

Put it this way if you are working at a company and it is common knowledge you are 'out the door', I don't think they are gonna pull you in on key proposals or contract discussions at that point.

Can you at least let your grievances be based on fact instead of fantasy? Houston NEVER went Charlotte.

(12-04-2018 05:00 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Here is what is really perplexing to me the same folks that were all pissed off about EW leaving after 2 years for an FBS opportunity and big pay bump (who also kept his business out of the public during the playoffs) are all good about MH leaving and creating a media circus around the team during playoff prep.

It must be b/c folks like MH so it is 'ok' whereas folks did not like EW. I thought EW was kind of ass and poor with the media, but he handled this far better.

Huh? EW was out of the playoffs 4 weeks prior to leaving. He kept his business out of the public cause he had no business to publicize! Those 4 weeks should have been fully dedicated to recruiting but then less than a month prior to signing day he bounces. He jumped on his first FBS opportunity and didn't even think about looking back. Wait, he did look back, he pulled out his recruiting sheets and starting offering JMU commits. He screwed MH who only had two weeks to get his signing class ready.

Now times have changed. The early signing period means pretty much every desirable FCS coach is going to be in season when FBS jobs come calling. That isn't MH's fault so I'm not going to penalize him for something he cannot control. Next, was the story leaking. Again, this doesn't seem to be his fault and I have no reason to not believe him when he states, "..the thing I had made it a firm priority was, that no one speak of me being considered down there." I'm not going to penalize MH for Charlotte causing the media frenzy and I will give him credit for being overly transparent in his statement about what exactly was going on to limit the rumors/speculation.

So, exactly how do you see that EW handled it "far better?"

(12-04-2018 01:22 PM)HyperDuke Wrote:  Bourne wouldn't do that. He loves Mike Houston to death. Never would've happened. I do agree it might have been best for the team, but don't really think Houston deserved that. Houston made it clear with Charlotte he didn't want it getting out & they leaked it because they were scared JMU would be playing through 12/8 at least & they might miss having him for early signing day. Charlotte wanted it to move faster, but didn't have the nuts to do it professionally. Our anger should be directed at someone in the Charlotte athletics office who has no integrity.

Exactly, In my opinion Bourne didn't do his job. It's not about what is the nice thing to do or being someone's buddy. this is a business and what I saw on Saturday was not fair to the players, assistant coaches or anyone involved with the program. I love MH and appreciate everything he's done for JMU and wish him all the best but he had already checked out. I don't think having MH on the sidelines help the teams cause. Maybe JMU can cut a two for one deal with ECU and MH could take Bourne with him. They could be roommates.

(12-04-2018 05:41 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 05:00 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Here is what is really perplexing to me the same folks that were all pissed off about EW leaving after 2 years for an FBS opportunity and big pay bump (who also kept his business out of the public during the playoffs) are all good about MH leaving and creating a media circus around the team during playoff prep.

It must be b/c folks like MH so it is 'ok' whereas folks did not like EW. I thought EW was kind of ass and poor with the media, but he handled this far better.

He handled it better by getting knocked out in the first week.

There was quite a few of us that were not sorry to see Withers go. My thoughts were I would of preferred to see one more year, but I did not feel he was a good coach. To me he was the complete opposite to Mike Houston how he handled himself. Mike handled public appearances with class. I was a little embarrassed the way Withers acted at press conferences. That apparently continued at Texas State. It wasn't just one reporter at the DNR. It was many reporters at JMU and Texas St. Also did not like how Withers blamed the players saying the coaches had positioned them right.
Did you ever notice how when we won Houston allowed the players to be on their own at the post game press conference, and when we lost he sat with them? He allowed the players to shine and was with them in defeat.

I've talked to tons of parents and players through the years. I've never found a coach that some parents or players were not happy about. I know that has been the case with Keener, Lefty, Matthews, Withers, and Houston. Usually it was people that did not feel they were not playing enough. But Houston I think overall did as well as any other coach in appreciation from the players.

Dukester we can agree to disagree. I too think Mike Houston is a better coach than Withers. I also think he is a better representative in public appearances and with the media. But we do not have any sort of personal relationship so he is just a football coach and representative for the university.

I think it is a rather naive outlook to think Houston was fully focused on his present job while actively negotiating and planning his exit. It is also naive to this the players did not sense it, feel it, and lost interest in him. I am sure they get it as a business decision but he was moving on that was clear (pick the school Charlotte/ECU/AppSt).

I am taking emotion out of it and looking at it as a business decision. It should not have been about letting Mike Houston stay b/c he is a GREAT GUY.....it should have been about doing what was best for @100 student athletes and the university. Mike Houston was doing what was best for Mike Houston (and I don't fault him for that) but JMU should have also been doing what was best for JMU and Mike Houston going to Colgate was not that.

How did EW handle the situation better.......well his job search did not play out in the media during the playoffs.

(12-05-2018 08:52 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Dukester we can agree to disagree. I too think Mike Houston is a better coach than Withers. I also think he is a better representative in public appearances and with the media. But we do not have any sort of personal relationship so he is just a football coach and representative for the university.

I think it is a rather naive outlook to think Houston was fully focused on his present job while actively negotiating and planning his exit. It is also naive to this the players did not sense it, feel it, and lost interest in him. I am sure they get it as a business decision but he was moving on that was clear (pick the school Charlotte/ECU/AppSt).

I am taking emotion out of it and looking at it as a business decision. It should not have been about letting Mike Houston stay b/c he is a GREAT GUY.....it should have been about doing what was best for @100 student athletes and the university. Mike Houston was doing what was best for Mike Houston (and I don't fault him for that) but JMU should have also been doing what was best for JMU and Mike Houston going to Colgate was not that.

I think it's naive to think that players play for a coach and not themselves or their school or their teamates. Do you think Jimmy F'ing Moreland was like "This was a fun time at JMU, but my third HC is leaving, so I don't really care about beating Colgate or that this is my last game." No doubt, it was a distraction but there are 24 hours in a day.

That is a complete opinion and one that is easy to argue is wrong. If DK or Trott were head coaching material, they would be a HC. They aren't. Many on here think DK sucks at play calling, so now you want him in charge of the whole team, on a three day notice? That just doesn't make any sense. Not only are you taking DK or Trott to HC but now you need a new OC or DC. Whichever position coach fills that role, on a three day notice, now has less time to dedicate to their position. You have distractions that MH might be leaving, you know what a good idea is, lets throw any remaining sense of normalcy out the window and fire him. You say MH interviewing was a waste of time and focus should have been on Colgate but then argue that we should go into the last game with one less coach dedicating time to preparing (and remaining coaches being less efficient bc they are in new positions). It just doesn't make any sense.

(12-05-2018 09:05 AM)DoubleDogDare Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 08:52 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  Dukester we can agree to disagree. I too think Mike Houston is a better coach than Withers. I also think he is a better representative in public appearances and with the media. But we do not have any sort of personal relationship so he is just a football coach and representative for the university.

I think it is a rather naive outlook to think Houston was fully focused on his present job while actively negotiating and planning his exit. It is also naive to this the players did not sense it, feel it, and lost interest in him. I am sure they get it as a business decision but he was moving on that was clear (pick the school Charlotte/ECU/AppSt).

I am taking emotion out of it and looking at it as a business decision. It should not have been about letting Mike Houston stay b/c he is a GREAT GUY.....it should have been about doing what was best for @100 student athletes and the university. Mike Houston was doing what was best for Mike Houston (and I don't fault him for that) but JMU should have also been doing what was best for JMU and Mike Houston going to Colgate was not that.

I think it's naive to think that players play for a coach and not themselves or their school or their teamates. Do you think Jimmy F'ing Moreland was like "This was a fun time at JMU, but my third HC is leaving, so I don't really care about beating Colgate or that this is my last game." No doubt, it was a distraction but there are 24 hours in a day.

That is a complete opinion and one that is easy to argue is wrong. If DK or Trott were head coaching material, they would be a HC. They aren't. Many on here think DK sucks at play calling, so now you want him in charge of the whole team, on a three day notice? That just doesn't make any sense. Not only are you taking DK or Trott to HC but now you need a new OC or DC. Whichever position coach fills that role, on a three day notice, now has less time to dedicate to their position. You have distractions that MH might be leaving, you know what a good idea is, lets throw any remaining sense of normalcy out the window and fire him. You say MH interviewing was a waste of time and focus should have been on Colgate but then argue that we should go into the last game with one less coach dedicating time to preparing (and remaining coaches being less efficient bc they are in new positions). It just doesn't make any sense.

You are entitled to your opinion and that approach clearly worked out GREAT.....I am sure that pre-game, motivational speech was very inspirational.

But whatever, I am excited to see who the new coach will be and hopefully will be announced quickly. Based on the last week, it is clear this process can be accomplished easily in under a week.

(12-05-2018 09:14 AM)ShadyP Wrote:  You are entitled to your opinion and that approach clearly worked out GREAT.....I am sure that pre-game, motivational speech was very inspirational.

But whatever, I am excited to see who the new coach will be and hopefully will be announced quickly. Based on the last week, it is clear this process can be accomplished easily in under a week.

Totally, it sucks that a weak pregame speech prior to a playoff game against a team that embarrassed us three years earlier at home, with a chance to move on to avenge last year's national championship loss, caused DiNucci to throw 5 INTs, and Daka to commit a roughing the passer on a failed 3rd and long, and the ref to miss a blatant hold on a successful third and long on Colgate's 90 yard TD drive.

(12-04-2018 05:00 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Here is what is really perplexing to me the same folks that were all pissed off about EW leaving after 2 years for an FBS opportunity and big pay bump (who also kept his business out of the public during the playoffs) are all good about MH leaving and creating a media circus around the team during playoff prep.

It must be b/c folks like MH so it is 'ok' whereas folks did not like EW. I thought EW was kind of ass and poor with the media, but he handled this far better.

I don’t think anyone was “ok” with the media circus that started midweek, including MH himself.
I don’t mind all that much that he bolted for (supposed) greener pastures, not surprising in the least.
I very much did mind the timing and to a lesser extent that it was alleged to be a place with no program and half the fan base.

Once it was clear it was going to be ECTC, I figured yea, well. Can’t much blame him there.

I may never know, but I think it was UNCCjr that screwed the pooch on letting this out, trying to force MH hand.

Must say I get a wry smile thinking how bad they f#%^’ed this thing up.

Amateurs

(12-05-2018 09:50 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 05:00 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Here is what is really perplexing to me the same folks that were all pissed off about EW leaving after 2 years for an FBS opportunity and big pay bump (who also kept his business out of the public during the playoffs) are all good about MH leaving and creating a media circus around the team during playoff prep.

It must be b/c folks like MH so it is 'ok' whereas folks did not like EW. I thought EW was kind of ass and poor with the media, but he handled this far better.

I don’t think anyone was “ok” with the media circus that started midweek, including MH himself.
I don’t mind all that much that he bolted for (supposed) greener pastures, not surprising in the least.
I very much did mind the timing and to a lesser extent that it was alleged to be a place with no program and half the fan base.

Once it was clear it was going to be ECTC, I figured yea, well. Can’t much blame him there.

I may never know, but I think it was UNCCjr that screwed the pooch on letting this out, trying to force MH hand.

Must say I get a wry smile thinking how bad they f#%^’ed this thing up.

Amateurs

Agreed. Especially your thoughts about UNCC. They just got a reality check that they're not "all that"...by the way, is UNCC still looking to hire a HC? I stopped thinking about them when ECU stole their lunch money.

(12-06-2018 01:33 PM)Longhorn Wrote:  

(12-05-2018 09:50 AM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(12-04-2018 05:00 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Here is what is really perplexing to me the same folks that were all pissed off about EW leaving after 2 years for an FBS opportunity and big pay bump (who also kept his business out of the public during the playoffs) are all good about MH leaving and creating a media circus around the team during playoff prep.

It must be b/c folks like MH so it is 'ok' whereas folks did not like EW. I thought EW was kind of ass and poor with the media, but he handled this far better.

I don’t think anyone was “ok” with the media circus that started midweek, including MH himself.
I don’t mind all that much that he bolted for (supposed) greener pastures, not surprising in the least.
I very much did mind the timing and to a lesser extent that it was alleged to be a place with no program and half the fan base.

Once it was clear it was going to be ECTC, I figured yea, well. Can’t much blame him there.

I may never know, but I think it was UNCCjr that screwed the pooch on letting this out, trying to force MH hand.

Must say I get a wry smile thinking how bad they f#%^’ed this thing up.

Amateurs

Agreed. Especially your thoughts about UNCC. They just got a reality check that they're not "all that"...by the way, is UNCC still looking to hire a HC? I stopped thinking about them when ECU stole their lunch money.

Not really sure the point.....but yes (and i think you know this as well) Charlotte has hired a coach. So it seems the amateurs can identity 1 coach, pull the offer when it was obvious they were being used to attract a bigger job.....circle back and identity another coach, offer, and make it happen.......and during this timeframe what exactly was JMU doing, making sure Mike Houston was comfortable during his job search.......JMU who knew Houston was leaving now over a week ago have done pretty much nothing....I mean the search should have begun last Tues/Wed not this past Monday.

And being such amateurs doesn't Charlotte have Ron Sanchez as a bball coach, that same Ron Sanchez that folks were all up in arms about that Bourne did not pursue aggressively. Don't get me wrong I am just fine with Coach Rowe.

(12-06-2018 01:39 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Not really sure the point.....but yes (and i think you know this as well) Charlotte has hired a coach. So it seems the amateurs can identity 1 coach, pull the offer when it was obvious they were being used to attract a bigger job.....circle back and identity another coach, offer, and make it happen.......and during this timeframe what exactly was JMU doing, making sure Mike Houston was comfortable during his job search.......JMU who knew Houston was leaving now over a week ago have done pretty much nothing....I mean the search should have begun last Tues/Wed not this past Monday.

And being such amateurs doesn't Charlotte have Ron Sanchez as a bball coach, that same Ron Sanchez that folks were all up in arms about that Bourne did not pursue aggressively. Don't get me wrong I am just fine with Coach Rowe.

Let's stick to facts please. Obviously Charlotte had already been searching and had a list of candidates of which Houston was #1. So to drop to #2 would have only taken minutes as I'm sure they had already vetted multiple candidates.

I believe Bourne started his process as soon as Charlotte called and asked for permission to talk to Houston. Worst case he started as soon as ECU called which would have been no later than Thursday of last week. There is no the process was held up until he had that press conference on Monday. After all, he secured Warren Belin and Corico Wright as the transition team on Sunday as evidenced by the annoucement on Monday and that Belin has said he was tagged for the transition team on Sunday.

(12-06-2018 04:53 PM)AllForDukes Wrote:  

(12-06-2018 01:39 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Not really sure the point.....but yes (and i think you know this as well) Charlotte has hired a coach. So it seems the amateurs can identity 1 coach, pull the offer when it was obvious they were being used to attract a bigger job.....circle back and identity another coach, offer, and make it happen.......and during this timeframe what exactly was JMU doing, making sure Mike Houston was comfortable during his job search.......JMU who knew Houston was leaving now over a week ago have done pretty much nothing....I mean the search should have begun last Tues/Wed not this past Monday.

And being such amateurs doesn't Charlotte have Ron Sanchez as a bball coach, that same Ron Sanchez that folks were all up in arms about that Bourne did not pursue aggressively. Don't get me wrong I am just fine with Coach Rowe.

Let's stick to facts please. Obviously Charlotte had already been searching and had a list of candidates of which Houston was #1. So to drop to #2 would have only taken minutes as I'm sure they had already vetted multiple candidates.

I believe Bourne started his process as soon as Charlotte called and asked for permission to talk to Houston. Worst case he started as soon as ECU called which would have been no later than Thursday of last week. There is no the process was held up until he had that press conference on Monday. After all, he secured Warren Belin and Corico Wright as the transition team on Sunday as evidenced by the annoucement on Monday and that Belin has said he was tagged for the transition team on Sunday.

Shady, I'm pretty sure JMU was coming up with a game plan and moving forward as soon as Mike said he was interested in UNCC. I'm sure they already had a plan in place. We were lucky Mike coached he for a 3rd year. I think everyone realized the odds were against a 4th year. The only shock, was that the school he was interested was Charlotte.

(12-06-2018 05:02 PM)Dukester Wrote:  

(12-06-2018 04:53 PM)AllForDukes Wrote:  

(12-06-2018 01:39 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Not really sure the point.....but yes (and i think you know this as well) Charlotte has hired a coach. So it seems the amateurs can identity 1 coach, pull the offer when it was obvious they were being used to attract a bigger job.....circle back and identity another coach, offer, and make it happen.......and during this timeframe what exactly was JMU doing, making sure Mike Houston was comfortable during his job search.......JMU who knew Houston was leaving now over a week ago have done pretty much nothing....I mean the search should have begun last Tues/Wed not this past Monday.

And being such amateurs doesn't Charlotte have Ron Sanchez as a bball coach, that same Ron Sanchez that folks were all up in arms about that Bourne did not pursue aggressively. Don't get me wrong I am just fine with Coach Rowe.

Let's stick to facts please. Obviously Charlotte had already been searching and had a list of candidates of which Houston was #1. So to drop to #2 would have only taken minutes as I'm sure they had already vetted multiple candidates.

I believe Bourne started his process as soon as Charlotte called and asked for permission to talk to Houston. Worst case he started as soon as ECU called which would have been no later than Thursday of last week. There is no the process was held up until he had that press conference on Monday. After all, he secured Warren Belin and Corico Wright as the transition team on Sunday as evidenced by the annoucement on Monday and that Belin has said he was tagged for the transition team on Sunday.

Shady, I'm pretty sure JMU was coming up with a game plan and moving forward as soon as Mike said he was interested in UNCC. I'm sure they already had a plan in place. We were lucky Mike coached he for a 3rd year. I think everyone realized the odds were against a 4th year. The only shock, was that the school he was interested was Charlotte.

Then they should have kept him in Hburg with the other 11 coaches who left. They wanted to lose.

No one on here could focus on their current job / tasks if you were negotiating an offer for 2x your current salary. Anyway good luck to MH and let’s find another winning coach and solid representative for the university!

(12-06-2018 04:53 PM)AllForDukes Wrote:  

(12-06-2018 01:39 PM)ShadyP Wrote:  Not really sure the point.....but yes (and i think you know this as well) Charlotte has hired a coach. So it seems the amateurs can identity 1 coach, pull the offer when it was obvious they were being used to attract a bigger job.....circle back and identity another coach, offer, and make it happen.......and during this timeframe what exactly was JMU doing, making sure Mike Houston was comfortable during his job search.......JMU who knew Houston was leaving now over a week ago have done pretty much nothing....I mean the search should have begun last Tues/Wed not this past Monday.

And being such amateurs doesn't Charlotte have Ron Sanchez as a bball coach, that same Ron Sanchez that folks were all up in arms about that Bourne did not pursue aggressively. Don't get me wrong I am just fine with Coach Rowe.

Let's stick to facts please. Obviously Charlotte had already been searching and had a list of candidates of which Houston was #1. So to drop to #2 would have only taken minutes as I'm sure they had already vetted multiple candidates.

I believe Bourne started his process as soon as Charlotte called and asked for permission to talk to Houston. Worst case he started as soon as ECU called which would have been no later than Thursday of last week. There is no the process was held up until he had that press conference on Monday. After all, he secured Warren Belin and Corico Wright as the transition team on Sunday as evidenced by the annoucement on Monday and that Belin has said he was tagged for the transition team on Sunday.

We are all speculating of course on timing but one thing I wouldn’t exactly say he “secured” those two it is clear that those are the only two people on the current staff that MH was not taking. MH was driving the train on that and not us being proactive.