(11-22-2018 12:26 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote: (11-22-2018 12:04 PM)ken d Wrote: (11-22-2018 09:12 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote: (11-19-2018 03:41 PM)Wedge Wrote: (11-19-2018 03:13 PM)ken d Wrote: That play raises a question I have often wondered about. What if that ball had not been touched before it crossed the goal line? Why wouldn't it have been considered a live ball? When the receiving team downs the ball in its own end zone, it's clearly a touchback and the ball comes out to the 25. But what if they just allow the ball to lay there without downing it? Is that an automatic touchback?
It's only a touchback if the ball is either downed in the end zone by the receiving team or goes out of bounds after crossing into the end zone.
If the ball is recovered in the end zone by the kicking team, it's a touchdown whether or not the ball was touched before entering the end zone.
CORRECT. Kickoffs are always live as soon as they travel 10 yards - hence the ability to onsides kick.
That was my assumption. Yet I have watched many a kick into the end zone that wasn't touched by anybody, but the refs blew the play dead.
Don't confuse punts (which are not live) with kickoffs (which are). Also, if a kickoff is downed in the end zone or goes out of the end zone, then it's a touchback.
Ken D's observations are accurate. I too have watched more than a few games this year where the officials waved an arm over their heads and blew the kickoff dead when the ball did not leave the end zone and the player never bothered to down it.
I think they are just as confused as the players who fail to fair catch the kickoffs that land short of the goal. It seems to me that those changes have only led to confusion.
As the rules are written what you are saying Hokie Mark should be the case as it was in the Wazzu game. If the ball is in the field of play, including the end zone, it is a live ball on a kickoff. It has to be downed for it to be a touch back. But if the officials keep getting this wrong it won't be long before the players don't bother to down it and somebody will get a cheap score.
So both you and Ken D are correct. The rule is the same regarding kickoffs and nothing has changed, but the officials are treating (in too many cases) a kick that breaks the plane of the goal to be a touch back, even if it is not downed.
It's garbage like this that is really killing my enjoyment of a game.
And while we are at it, it's totally hypocritical that linemen can now push and drive a ball carrier forward and yet we have targeting which is a call justified for the protection of players. I played back when assisting the runner was a penalty and when piling on, which is frequently the results of these pushes, was a personal foul. If we are going to have targeting for safety's sake then it should not be legal to lift, assist, or push a ball carrier.
And by the way, football had long distinguished itself from Rugby by not allowing the scrum which pushed the ball carrier forward. They've monkeyed with the rules for far too long and the game is suffering for it.