(11-20-2018 12:01 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 08:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 08:22 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Additionally, I and everyone I know is only in favor of legal immigration and more of it, and full well realize that legal residents also commit crimes and that changes nothing about that. Sadly though, I have to continually remind folks that illegals already here do not commit MORE crimes than legal residents.

The point is not that they commit more crimes than legal residents but that they commit more crimes here than they would if they were not here.

I'm in favor of more legal immigration and no illegal immigration. If you are truly in favor of only legal immigration, would you mind posting links to statements you have made supporting our efforts to curb illegal immigration?

Tom, your assertion is 100% false: every illegal border crosser here is guilty of committing one crime by their very presence here. Not every legal citizen is committing a crime just by being here. The additional crimes some illegal border crossers may also commit only add to their total. Also, since illegal border crossers have demonstrated by their very presence here that they are not interested in following our laws (by applying for legal status first BEFORE entering the country) they are inherently more dangerous than the average citizen, the vast majority of which have not committed any crime.

My suggestion: since the left likes taxes so much, tax only those who wish to allow or advocate for illegal border crossers an additional tax to pay exclusively for the costs of illegal immigrants: welfare, hospitalization and emergency room care, law enforcement (ICE, border patrol, etc..) related to illegal border crossers, et cetera. Make the tax equal to the total annual costs divided by those in favor of letting them stay illegally, double tax those who are representatives in our government. Their votes will let us know who they are. If, by some miracle, no one admits they are in favor, then immediately pass strict immigration laws, immediate deportments, end all sanctuary city, catch and release and local non-cooperation to end this debacle, and allow those who are coming through LEGALLY to benefit form their legal actions instead of illegals.

Tom, get your checkbook out.

Reading is fundamental. And yes, entering illegally is a crime, but remaining here isn't.

(11-20-2018 01:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:01 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 08:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 08:22 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Additionally, I and everyone I know is only in favor of legal immigration and more of it, and full well realize that legal residents also commit crimes and that changes nothing about that. Sadly though, I have to continually remind folks that illegals already here do not commit MORE crimes than legal residents.

The point is not that they commit more crimes than legal residents but that they commit more crimes here than they would if they were not here.

I'm in favor of more legal immigration and no illegal immigration. If you are truly in favor of only legal immigration, would you mind posting links to statements you have made supporting our efforts to curb illegal immigration?

Tom, your assertion is 100% false: every illegal border crosser here is guilty of committing one crime by their very presence here. Not every legal citizen is committing a crime just by being here. The additional crimes some illegal border crossers may also commit only add to their total. Also, since illegal border crossers have demonstrated by their very presence here that they are not interested in following our laws (by applying for legal status first BEFORE entering the country) they are inherently more dangerous than the average citizen, the vast majority of which have not committed any crime.

My suggestion: since the left likes taxes so much, tax only those who wish to allow or advocate for illegal border crossers an additional tax to pay exclusively for the costs of illegal immigrants: welfare, hospitalization and emergency room care, law enforcement (ICE, border patrol, etc..) related to illegal border crossers, et cetera. Make the tax equal to the total annual costs divided by those in favor of letting them stay illegally, double tax those who are representatives in our government. Their votes will let us know who they are. If, by some miracle, no one admits they are in favor, then immediately pass strict immigration laws, immediate deportments, end all sanctuary city, catch and release and local non-cooperation to end this debacle, and allow those who are coming through LEGALLY to benefit form their legal actions instead of illegals.

Tom, get your checkbook out.

Reading is fundamental. And yes, entering illegally is a crime, but remaining here isn't.

The first supersedes the second. If the punishment for entering illegally is deportation, then the second part doesn't matter, IMO.

Also, that's only if the one that stayed asked for asylum, correct? If not, then remaining here definitely is illegal.

(11-20-2018 10:34 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:30 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 04:26 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 03:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 03:25 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Hell no. That is crazy. Reagan and Bush 1 both did that. No Mas.

Why? Which part? And I didn't say the path should be easy. It's a way better idea to get the illegals who are already here to be legal paying taxpayers who participate in our country than to try and round them all up and send them somewhere.

Nope, not citizenship or a pathway for over 22 million, insanity. Most use fake or stolen SSN, and others get Individual Taxpayer Identification Number from the IRS.
On that form the IRS does not even ask if you are in the country legally LOL. The IRS gets their money. IRS even admitted that they know they get returns with bogus SSNs or those belonging to dead people, they don't care.

And nobody is trying to round up all of the illegals it is an impossible task.

Cool story bro...got any official data on this?

1.4 million illegals working under stolen Social Security numbers: Audit

This is one of the main reasons I make sure to file my taxes as soon as possible.

If you are in the U.S. in a status that does not allow you to receive a Social Security Number, however—perhaps because you are an undocumented immigrant, a nonimmigrant with a visa that doesn’t allow work, or a spouse of a U.S. citizen, green card holder, or visa holder in the United States and you're not allowed to work during your time here—you cannot become part of this system.

Something called an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN), however, issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), offers some similar benefits when it comes to showing that compliance your U.S. tax obligations.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/...umber.html

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes too. Here's how they do it

But the IRS still wants unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do. The best estimates from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, suggest about half of undocumented workers in the United States pay income taxes.

Filing taxes helps immigrants create a paper trail to show when they entered the country and how long they’ve been contributing tax dollars. Many are hoping it will help them get legal status one day. That has happened in past reform efforts, and one of the first requirements is usually to prove that a person has been paying taxes. That was the case for the undocumented youth granted temporary work permits under President Obama’s deportation-relief program, known as DACA. With the new administration’s fixation on a border wall, however, their chance of getting papers is more remote than ever.

The Social Security number on the W-2 form is made up, Maria tells me, because she doesn’t have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren’t allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any money they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ax-returns

Most experts believe that the vast majority of tax returns filed with ITINs today are filed by undocumented immigrants rather than the intended recipient groups—a few categories of noncitizens who do not have a Social Security number and are not authorized to work but who are still earning income and legally residing in the United States
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do...explainer/

(11-20-2018 02:35 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 01:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:01 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 08:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 08:22 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Additionally, I and everyone I know is only in favor of legal immigration and more of it, and full well realize that legal residents also commit crimes and that changes nothing about that. Sadly though, I have to continually remind folks that illegals already here do not commit MORE crimes than legal residents.

The point is not that they commit more crimes than legal residents but that they commit more crimes here than they would if they were not here.

I'm in favor of more legal immigration and no illegal immigration. If you are truly in favor of only legal immigration, would you mind posting links to statements you have made supporting our efforts to curb illegal immigration?

Tom, your assertion is 100% false: every illegal border crosser here is guilty of committing one crime by their very presence here. Not every legal citizen is committing a crime just by being here. The additional crimes some illegal border crossers may also commit only add to their total. Also, since illegal border crossers have demonstrated by their very presence here that they are not interested in following our laws (by applying for legal status first BEFORE entering the country) they are inherently more dangerous than the average citizen, the vast majority of which have not committed any crime.

My suggestion: since the left likes taxes so much, tax only those who wish to allow or advocate for illegal border crossers an additional tax to pay exclusively for the costs of illegal immigrants: welfare, hospitalization and emergency room care, law enforcement (ICE, border patrol, etc..) related to illegal border crossers, et cetera. Make the tax equal to the total annual costs divided by those in favor of letting them stay illegally, double tax those who are representatives in our government. Their votes will let us know who they are. If, by some miracle, no one admits they are in favor, then immediately pass strict immigration laws, immediate deportments, end all sanctuary city, catch and release and local non-cooperation to end this debacle, and allow those who are coming through LEGALLY to benefit form their legal actions instead of illegals.

Tom, get your checkbook out.

Reading is fundamental. And yes, entering illegally is a crime, but remaining here isn't.

The first supersedes the second. If the punishment for entering illegally is deportation, then the second part doesn't matter, IMO.

Also, that's only if the one that stayed asked for asylum, correct? If not, then remaining here definitely is illegal.

May be illegal, but it's not a crime. The only crime committed is entering illegally.

(11-20-2018 02:52 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:34 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:30 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 04:26 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 03:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Why? Which part? And I didn't say the path should be easy. It's a way better idea to get the illegals who are already here to be legal paying taxpayers who participate in our country than to try and round them all up and send them somewhere.

Nope, not citizenship or a pathway for over 22 million, insanity. Most use fake or stolen SSN, and others get Individual Taxpayer Identification Number from the IRS.
On that form the IRS does not even ask if you are in the country legally LOL. The IRS gets their money. IRS even admitted that they know they get returns with bogus SSNs or those belonging to dead people, they don't care.

And nobody is trying to round up all of the illegals it is an impossible task.

Cool story bro...got any official data on this?

1.4 million illegals working under stolen Social Security numbers: Audit

This is one of the main reasons I make sure to file my taxes as soon as possible.

If you are in the U.S. in a status that does not allow you to receive a Social Security Number, however—perhaps because you are an undocumented immigrant, a nonimmigrant with a visa that doesn’t allow work, or a spouse of a U.S. citizen, green card holder, or visa holder in the United States and you're not allowed to work during your time here—you cannot become part of this system.

Something called an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN), however, issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), offers some similar benefits when it comes to showing that compliance your U.S. tax obligations.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/...umber.html

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes too. Here's how they do it

But the IRS still wants unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do. The best estimates from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, suggest about half of undocumented workers in the United States pay income taxes.

Filing taxes helps immigrants create a paper trail to show when they entered the country and how long they’ve been contributing tax dollars. Many are hoping it will help them get legal status one day. That has happened in past reform efforts, and one of the first requirements is usually to prove that a person has been paying taxes. That was the case for the undocumented youth granted temporary work permits under President Obama’s deportation-relief program, known as DACA. With the new administration’s fixation on a border wall, however, their chance of getting papers is more remote than ever.

The Social Security number on the W-2 form is made up, Maria tells me, because she doesn’t have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren’t allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any money they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ax-returns

Most experts believe that the vast majority of tax returns filed with ITINs today are filed by undocumented immigrants rather than the intended recipient groups—a few categories of noncitizens who do not have a Social Security number and are not authorized to work but who are still earning income and legally residing in the United States
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do...explainer/

Thanks.

However, I don't believe the bolded part to be totally correct.

Quote:An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security numbers. They are issued regardless of immigration status, because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code. ITINs do not serve any purpose other than federal tax reporting.

An ITIN does not:

Authorize work in the U.S.
Provide eligibility for Social Security benefits
Qualify a dependent for Earned Income Tax Credit Purposes

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individu...ion-number

The biggest issue IMHO is employers who hire illegals. Until they are cracked down upon harshly, nothing will deter illegals form wanting to come here.

(11-20-2018 03:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 02:35 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 01:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:01 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 08:53 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  The point is not that they commit more crimes than legal residents but that they commit more crimes here than they would if they were not here.

I'm in favor of more legal immigration and no illegal immigration. If you are truly in favor of only legal immigration, would you mind posting links to statements you have made supporting our efforts to curb illegal immigration?

Tom, your assertion is 100% false: every illegal border crosser here is guilty of committing one crime by their very presence here. Not every legal citizen is committing a crime just by being here. The additional crimes some illegal border crossers may also commit only add to their total. Also, since illegal border crossers have demonstrated by their very presence here that they are not interested in following our laws (by applying for legal status first BEFORE entering the country) they are inherently more dangerous than the average citizen, the vast majority of which have not committed any crime.

My suggestion: since the left likes taxes so much, tax only those who wish to allow or advocate for illegal border crossers an additional tax to pay exclusively for the costs of illegal immigrants: welfare, hospitalization and emergency room care, law enforcement (ICE, border patrol, etc..) related to illegal border crossers, et cetera. Make the tax equal to the total annual costs divided by those in favor of letting them stay illegally, double tax those who are representatives in our government. Their votes will let us know who they are. If, by some miracle, no one admits they are in favor, then immediately pass strict immigration laws, immediate deportments, end all sanctuary city, catch and release and local non-cooperation to end this debacle, and allow those who are coming through LEGALLY to benefit form their legal actions instead of illegals.

Tom, get your checkbook out.

Reading is fundamental. And yes, entering illegally is a crime, but remaining here isn't.

The first supersedes the second. If the punishment for entering illegally is deportation, then the second part doesn't matter, IMO.

Also, that's only if the one that stayed asked for asylum, correct? If not, then remaining here definitely is illegal.

May be illegal, but it's not a crime. The only crime committed is entering illegally.

When an illegal is given a deportation order, and then do not leave that is also a crime.

(11-20-2018 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 02:52 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:34 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:30 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-19-2018 04:26 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Nope, not citizenship or a pathway for over 22 million, insanity. Most use fake or stolen SSN, and others get Individual Taxpayer Identification Number from the IRS.
On that form the IRS does not even ask if you are in the country legally LOL. The IRS gets their money. IRS even admitted that they know they get returns with bogus SSNs or those belonging to dead people, they don't care.

And nobody is trying to round up all of the illegals it is an impossible task.

Cool story bro...got any official data on this?

1.4 million illegals working under stolen Social Security numbers: Audit

This is one of the main reasons I make sure to file my taxes as soon as possible.

If you are in the U.S. in a status that does not allow you to receive a Social Security Number, however—perhaps because you are an undocumented immigrant, a nonimmigrant with a visa that doesn’t allow work, or a spouse of a U.S. citizen, green card holder, or visa holder in the United States and you're not allowed to work during your time here—you cannot become part of this system.

Something called an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN), however, issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), offers some similar benefits when it comes to showing that compliance your U.S. tax obligations.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/...umber.html

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes too. Here's how they do it

But the IRS still wants unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do. The best estimates from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, suggest about half of undocumented workers in the United States pay income taxes.

Filing taxes helps immigrants create a paper trail to show when they entered the country and how long they’ve been contributing tax dollars. Many are hoping it will help them get legal status one day. That has happened in past reform efforts, and one of the first requirements is usually to prove that a person has been paying taxes. That was the case for the undocumented youth granted temporary work permits under President Obama’s deportation-relief program, known as DACA. With the new administration’s fixation on a border wall, however, their chance of getting papers is more remote than ever.

The Social Security number on the W-2 form is made up, Maria tells me, because she doesn’t have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren’t allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any money they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ax-returns

Most experts believe that the vast majority of tax returns filed with ITINs today are filed by undocumented immigrants rather than the intended recipient groups—a few categories of noncitizens who do not have a Social Security number and are not authorized to work but who are still earning income and legally residing in the United States
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do...explainer/

Thanks.

However, I don't believe the bolded part to be totally correct.

Quote:An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security numbers. They are issued regardless of immigration status, because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code. ITINs do not serve any purpose other than federal tax reporting.

An ITIN does not:

Authorize work in the U.S.
Provide eligibility for Social Security benefits
Qualify a dependent for Earned Income Tax Credit Purposes

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individu...ion-number

The biggest issue IMHO is employers who hire illegals. Until they are cracked down upon harshly, nothing will deter illegals form wanting to come here.

I am fence sitter on a crackdown of employers. One if you put them in jail, or fine them too harshly, then the entire business goes down the drain and citizen employees lose their job also.

(11-20-2018 04:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 02:52 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:34 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 09:30 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Cool story bro...got any official data on this?

1.4 million illegals working under stolen Social Security numbers: Audit

This is one of the main reasons I make sure to file my taxes as soon as possible.

If you are in the U.S. in a status that does not allow you to receive a Social Security Number, however—perhaps because you are an undocumented immigrant, a nonimmigrant with a visa that doesn’t allow work, or a spouse of a U.S. citizen, green card holder, or visa holder in the United States and you're not allowed to work during your time here—you cannot become part of this system.

Something called an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN), however, issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), offers some similar benefits when it comes to showing that compliance your U.S. tax obligations.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/...umber.html

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes too. Here's how they do it

But the IRS still wants unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do. The best estimates from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, suggest about half of undocumented workers in the United States pay income taxes.

Filing taxes helps immigrants create a paper trail to show when they entered the country and how long they’ve been contributing tax dollars. Many are hoping it will help them get legal status one day. That has happened in past reform efforts, and one of the first requirements is usually to prove that a person has been paying taxes. That was the case for the undocumented youth granted temporary work permits under President Obama’s deportation-relief program, known as DACA. With the new administration’s fixation on a border wall, however, their chance of getting papers is more remote than ever.

The Social Security number on the W-2 form is made up, Maria tells me, because she doesn’t have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren’t allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any money they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ax-returns

Most experts believe that the vast majority of tax returns filed with ITINs today are filed by undocumented immigrants rather than the intended recipient groups—a few categories of noncitizens who do not have a Social Security number and are not authorized to work but who are still earning income and legally residing in the United States
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do...explainer/

Thanks.

However, I don't believe the bolded part to be totally correct.

Quote:An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security numbers. They are issued regardless of immigration status, because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code. ITINs do not serve any purpose other than federal tax reporting.

An ITIN does not:

Authorize work in the U.S.
Provide eligibility for Social Security benefits
Qualify a dependent for Earned Income Tax Credit Purposes

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individu...ion-number

The biggest issue IMHO is employers who hire illegals. Until they are cracked down upon harshly, nothing will deter illegals form wanting to come here.

I am fence sitter on a crackdown of employers. One if you put them in jail, or fine them too harshly, then the entire business goes down the drain and citizen employees lose their job also.

One of the reasons I support a path to citizenship.

(11-20-2018 04:13 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 03:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 02:35 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 01:40 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 12:01 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  Tom, your assertion is 100% false: every illegal border crosser here is guilty of committing one crime by their very presence here. Not every legal citizen is committing a crime just by being here. The additional crimes some illegal border crossers may also commit only add to their total. Also, since illegal border crossers have demonstrated by their very presence here that they are not interested in following our laws (by applying for legal status first BEFORE entering the country) they are inherently more dangerous than the average citizen, the vast majority of which have not committed any crime.

My suggestion: since the left likes taxes so much, tax only those who wish to allow or advocate for illegal border crossers an additional tax to pay exclusively for the costs of illegal immigrants: welfare, hospitalization and emergency room care, law enforcement (ICE, border patrol, etc..) related to illegal border crossers, et cetera. Make the tax equal to the total annual costs divided by those in favor of letting them stay illegally, double tax those who are representatives in our government. Their votes will let us know who they are. If, by some miracle, no one admits they are in favor, then immediately pass strict immigration laws, immediate deportments, end all sanctuary city, catch and release and local non-cooperation to end this debacle, and allow those who are coming through LEGALLY to benefit form their legal actions instead of illegals.

Tom, get your checkbook out.

Reading is fundamental. And yes, entering illegally is a crime, but remaining here isn't.

The first supersedes the second. If the punishment for entering illegally is deportation, then the second part doesn't matter, IMO.

Also, that's only if the one that stayed asked for asylum, correct? If not, then remaining here definitely is illegal.

May be illegal, but it's not a crime. The only crime committed is entering illegally.

When an illegal is given a deportation order, and then do not leave that is also a crime.

Clearly, of course.

The oath to citizenship would be fine, if the LAST time we did that, it wasn't so grossly abused.

If 'being here' puts you on a path to citizenship, then where is the deterrent to come her illegally?

(11-20-2018 06:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The oath to citizenship would be fine, if the LAST time we did that, it wasn't so grossly abused.

If 'being here' puts you on a path to citizenship, then where is the deterrent to come her illegally?

Absolutely not on a path to citizenship. Lawbreakers should not be rewarded for criminal behavior.


I could be persuaded to support permanent resident alien status as long as we strengthen border protections, increase penalties for violators empower state and local law enforcement with the ability to enforce immigration laws if they so desire, and punish state and local governments that do not comply with federal law.

(11-20-2018 06:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The oath to citizenship would be fine, if the LAST time we did that, it wasn't so grossly abused.

If 'being here' puts you on a path to citizenship, then where is the deterrent to come her illegally?

It's only for people already here.

(11-21-2018 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 06:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The oath to citizenship would be fine, if the LAST time we did that, it wasn't so grossly abused.
If 'being here' puts you on a path to citizenship, then where is the deterrent to come her illegally?

It's only for people already here.

Apparently you did not understand the question. Where is the deterrent to come here illegally?

(11-21-2018 10:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-21-2018 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 06:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The oath to citizenship would be fine, if the LAST time we did that, it wasn't so grossly abused.
If 'being here' puts you on a path to citizenship, then where is the deterrent to come her illegally?

It's only for people already here.

Apparently you did not understand the question. Where is the deterrent to come here illegally?

No path to citizenship and after the new policy goes into effect, any illegals caught coming in are sent back forthwith. You can only get on the path if you were already here when the plan starts. And again, I'm not saying it's an easy path.

(11-20-2018 04:50 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 02:52 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 10:34 AM)VA49er Wrote:  1.4 million illegals working under stolen Social Security numbers: Audit

This is one of the main reasons I make sure to file my taxes as soon as possible.

If you are in the U.S. in a status that does not allow you to receive a Social Security Number, however—perhaps because you are an undocumented immigrant, a nonimmigrant with a visa that doesn’t allow work, or a spouse of a U.S. citizen, green card holder, or visa holder in the United States and you're not allowed to work during your time here—you cannot become part of this system.

Something called an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN), however, issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), offers some similar benefits when it comes to showing that compliance your U.S. tax obligations.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/...umber.html

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes too. Here's how they do it

But the IRS still wants unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do. The best estimates from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, suggest about half of undocumented workers in the United States pay income taxes.

Filing taxes helps immigrants create a paper trail to show when they entered the country and how long they’ve been contributing tax dollars. Many are hoping it will help them get legal status one day. That has happened in past reform efforts, and one of the first requirements is usually to prove that a person has been paying taxes. That was the case for the undocumented youth granted temporary work permits under President Obama’s deportation-relief program, known as DACA. With the new administration’s fixation on a border wall, however, their chance of getting papers is more remote than ever.

The Social Security number on the W-2 form is made up, Maria tells me, because she doesn’t have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren’t allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any money they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ax-returns

Most experts believe that the vast majority of tax returns filed with ITINs today are filed by undocumented immigrants rather than the intended recipient groups—a few categories of noncitizens who do not have a Social Security number and are not authorized to work but who are still earning income and legally residing in the United States
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do...explainer/

Thanks.

However, I don't believe the bolded part to be totally correct.

Quote:An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security numbers. They are issued regardless of immigration status, because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code. ITINs do not serve any purpose other than federal tax reporting.

An ITIN does not:

Authorize work in the U.S.
Provide eligibility for Social Security benefits
Qualify a dependent for Earned Income Tax Credit Purposes

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individu...ion-number

The biggest issue IMHO is employers who hire illegals. Until they are cracked down upon harshly, nothing will deter illegals form wanting to come here.

I am fence sitter on a crackdown of employers. One if you put them in jail, or fine them too harshly, then the entire business goes down the drain and citizen employees lose their job also.

One of the reasons I support a path to citizenship.

If illegals got citizenship and voted, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Nevada, Florida, go blue. Political suicide for the GOP.

(11-21-2018 11:34 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-21-2018 10:43 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-21-2018 09:36 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 06:07 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  The oath to citizenship would be fine, if the LAST time we did that, it wasn't so grossly abused.
If 'being here' puts you on a path to citizenship, then where is the deterrent to come her illegally?

It's only for people already here.

Apparently you did not understand the question. Where is the deterrent to come here illegally?

No path to citizenship and after the new policy goes into effect, any illegals caught coming in are sent back forthwith. You can only get on the path if you were already here when the plan starts. And again, I'm not saying it's an easy path.

That is what everybody said last time back in the 80's and early 90's when Reagan/Bush1 granted amnesty. They handed California to the Democrats.

(11-21-2018 11:55 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:50 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 02:52 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  If you are in the U.S. in a status that does not allow you to receive a Social Security Number, however—perhaps because you are an undocumented immigrant, a nonimmigrant with a visa that doesn’t allow work, or a spouse of a U.S. citizen, green card holder, or visa holder in the United States and you're not allowed to work during your time here—you cannot become part of this system.

Something called an Individual Tax Identification Number (ITIN), however, issued by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), offers some similar benefits when it comes to showing that compliance your U.S. tax obligations.
https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/...umber.html

Undocumented immigrants pay taxes too. Here's how they do it

But the IRS still wants unauthorized immigrants to file their taxes, and many of them do. The best estimates from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy, a Washington, DC, think tank, suggest about half of undocumented workers in the United States pay income taxes.

Filing taxes helps immigrants create a paper trail to show when they entered the country and how long they’ve been contributing tax dollars. Many are hoping it will help them get legal status one day. That has happened in past reform efforts, and one of the first requirements is usually to prove that a person has been paying taxes. That was the case for the undocumented youth granted temporary work permits under President Obama’s deportation-relief program, known as DACA. With the new administration’s fixation on a border wall, however, their chance of getting papers is more remote than ever.

The Social Security number on the W-2 form is made up, Maria tells me, because she doesn’t have one. Her employer never asked for identification to verify it, she says. Instead, she has an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN), created by the IRS in 1996 so people who aren’t allowed to work in the United States could still file taxes on any money they earned. (The IRS does not share ITIN information with immigration authorities.)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/...ax-returns

Most experts believe that the vast majority of tax returns filed with ITINs today are filed by undocumented immigrants rather than the intended recipient groups—a few categories of noncitizens who do not have a Social Security number and are not authorized to work but who are still earning income and legally residing in the United States
https://bipartisanpolicy.org/blog/how-do...explainer/

Thanks.

However, I don't believe the bolded part to be totally correct.

Quote:An Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) is a tax processing number issued by the Internal Revenue Service. The IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain, a Social Security number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security numbers. They are issued regardless of immigration status, because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code. ITINs do not serve any purpose other than federal tax reporting.

An ITIN does not:

Authorize work in the U.S.
Provide eligibility for Social Security benefits
Qualify a dependent for Earned Income Tax Credit Purposes

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individu...ion-number

The biggest issue IMHO is employers who hire illegals. Until they are cracked down upon harshly, nothing will deter illegals form wanting to come here.

I am fence sitter on a crackdown of employers. One if you put them in jail, or fine them too harshly, then the entire business goes down the drain and citizen employees lose their job also.

One of the reasons I support a path to citizenship.

If illegals got citizenship and voted, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Nevada, Florida, go blue. Political suicide for the GOP.

And that’s all this fake “compassion” for the fence jumpers is all about.

Gaining political power.

(11-21-2018 12:24 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-21-2018 11:55 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:50 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Thanks.

However, I don't believe the bolded part to be totally correct.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individu...ion-number

The biggest issue IMHO is employers who hire illegals. Until they are cracked down upon harshly, nothing will deter illegals form wanting to come here.

I am fence sitter on a crackdown of employers. One if you put them in jail, or fine them too harshly, then the entire business goes down the drain and citizen employees lose their job also.

One of the reasons I support a path to citizenship.

If illegals got citizenship and voted, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Nevada, Florida, go blue. Political suicide for the GOP.

And that’s all this fake “compassion” for the fence jumpers is all about.

Gaining political power.

If the Left really cared about the poor and working poor "Workfare" would still be in place. It was one program that actually helped people rise up. FYI...Workfare was dismantled by the Obama administration and I have not heard a single voice on the Hill advocating it be reinstated. Not ONE. The left wants to give handouts and make people dependent and thankful to them instead of helping them get a handle on their lives and being independent. It really is a disgusting philosophy.

(11-21-2018 12:28 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-21-2018 12:24 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-21-2018 11:55 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:50 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  I am fence sitter on a crackdown of employers. One if you put them in jail, or fine them too harshly, then the entire business goes down the drain and citizen employees lose their job also.

One of the reasons I support a path to citizenship.

If illegals got citizenship and voted, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Nevada, Florida, go blue. Political suicide for the GOP.

And that’s all this fake “compassion” for the fence jumpers is all about.

Gaining political power.

If the Left really cared about the poor and working poor "Workfare" would still be in place. It was one program that actually helped people rise up. FYI...Workfare was dismantled by the Obama administration and I have not heard a single voice on the Hill advocating it be reinstated. Not ONE. The left wants to give handouts and make people dependent and thankful to them instead of helping them get a handle on their lives and being independent. It really is a disgusting philosophy.

I would vote blue too if they gave me enough money to live on including an 80" LED TV, a full fridge and enough extra money for booze and lottery tickets to boot....

Who's with me?

(11-21-2018 12:24 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(11-21-2018 11:55 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:50 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 04:17 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-20-2018 03:58 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Thanks.

However, I don't believe the bolded part to be totally correct.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/individu...ion-number

The biggest issue IMHO is employers who hire illegals. Until they are cracked down upon harshly, nothing will deter illegals form wanting to come here.

I am fence sitter on a crackdown of employers. One if you put them in jail, or fine them too harshly, then the entire business goes down the drain and citizen employees lose their job also.

One of the reasons I support a path to citizenship.

If illegals got citizenship and voted, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Nevada, Florida, go blue. Political suicide for the GOP.

And that’s all this fake “compassion” for the fence jumpers is all about.

Gaining political power.

100%. Hispanics, overwhelmingly of Mexican heritage are the largest ethnic group in California. When Millions got amnesty they bring in family members on chain immigration, have lots of kids who also grow up and vote for Dems. Bush 1 got 51.13% of the Cali vote in 88'. Trump/Romney/McCain never even got to 40%. In 84' Reagan got 57%. Cali has a lot of Asians also who vote Dem also.