The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I can honestly say that I was almost physically destructive angry tonight as I watched this game...

Now that I have had some time... now that I was able to step back and think about this entire WMU Football situation I have calmed down a touch...

Why?

Well this is a not a team that was built on defense. We knew going into this season that the DL was going to be rough... the DB's were going to be rough... This team was built on a ball control offense this season with a QB that could stretch a defense and keep the ground game churning. This positioned us well in games.

Nobody should be surprised by tonights outcome... (me included... as I keep throwing stuff). This defense is just a shell of what it could be if we could actually play man coverage on ANYONE... At some point you have to wonder if the coaches themselves are as dumfounded as we are... Without Wassink this offense is predictable... we can't throw it vertically... we can't stretch the field with Eleby just yet... JUST YET! And we still ran it roughshod all over the BSU defense.

Defense is our problem... and after tonight I am not sure its a Daoust issue or a position coach issue.... or maybe... JUST FREAKING MAYBE these guys are not playing up to their potential... I saw so many bad angles on long plays and DB's losing their guy in space, giving up a wide open 10yard catch in the flat... just bad individual performances... In fact the DL was the only bright point of tonights defensive effort... they were moving the line.....forcing the BSU QB out of the pocket and making him uncomfortable ... but the QB always had a safety out who was WIDE FREAKING OPEN!

We aren't good... we just aren't. We are not a good football team. We have a very talented roster but we aren't yet together under the new regime. So many young guys in new positions. A true frosh QB who looks like a true frosh. So many things tonight just went bad... just bad. Special teams improved a little... but we can't lean on them for field position. I will say this... if we look like this next year... I will be selling my season tickets...

Just as expected.. another rah rah post to tell everyone to step off the ledge.

Flush, why sell your season tickets when you could just not buy them in the first place? It would save you a step and some money because you ain't getting face value out of those!

(11-13-2018 11:01 PM)Nacho Wrote:  Just as expected.. another rah rah post to tell everyone to step off the ledge.

Flush, why sell your season tickets when you could just not buy them in the first place? It would save you a step and some money because you ain't getting face value out of those!

Yep. These posts are like clockwork. But get used to them. Will be lots of opportunities for excuse making in the years to come.

(11-13-2018 11:01 PM)Nacho Wrote:  Just as expected.. another rah rah post to tell everyone to step off the ledge.

Flush, why sell your season tickets when you could just not buy them in the first place? It would save you a step and some money because you ain't getting face value out of those!

I have suite tix that requires a 3 year buy in.

I am NOT rah rah rah right now... I am LIVID... but i'm also being a realist. There is NO way you pull a 4 star WR commit in the middle of what we are watching if you can't prove the situation isn't what it looks like... We have talent... TONS of it... and our coaching staff knows its getting warmer under their seats....

I listened to the radio pre-game and they interviewed Daoust... The guy had NO voice.. It was as if he had been yelling his backside off the entire week... He was also very open about our problems on the D side of the ball and wanted to make sure his guys played with speed... There is NO WAY he's not yelling at these kids to be better... and tonight they were still missing angles and assignments... etc. At some point that isn't any longer on the coaches but the freaking players to be BETTER.

I just can't find a silver lining in losing to a 3-win team with a winning season and guaranteed bowl on the line, after getting completely dominated at home by Toledo and Ohio (neither division winners). Not to mention some of brindlee's comments that leave me more concerned.

We'll need more than just cosmetic improvements in the off-season. Unless we have a major upgrade in defense and special teams, along with more disciplined play, I don't see how we surpass what has become a 6-6 "Lester norm".

(11-13-2018 11:10 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 11:01 PM)Nacho Wrote:  Just as expected.. another rah rah post to tell everyone to step off the ledge.

Flush, why sell your season tickets when you could just not buy them in the first place? It would save you a step and some money because you ain't getting face value out of those!

I have suite tix that requires a 3 year buy in.

I am NOT rah rah rah right now... I am LIVID... but i'm also being a realist. There is NO way you pull a 4 star WR commit in the middle of what we are watching if you can't prove the situation isn't what it looks like... We have talent... TONS of it... and our coaching staff knows its getting warmer under their seats....

I listened to the radio pre-game and they interviewed Daoust... The guy had NO voice.. It was as if he had been yelling his backside off the entire week... He was also very open about our problems on the D side of the ball and wanted to make sure his guys played with speed... There is NO WAY he's not yelling at these kids to be better... and tonight they were still missing angles and assignments... etc. At some point that isn't any longer on the coaches but the freaking players to be BETTER.

Until that 4 star commit signs his LOT, he’s not officially ours. Still 3 months until NSD, plenty of time to change his mind

Patience: Someone will be hiring a new coach in 2020

We'll go 6-6, or 6-7 this year... he'll get a contract extension for 1 year... we'll go 6-6 next year... he'll get a contract extension...

Flush and the rest are pissed??? I just got back from that lovely drive from Muncie to Detroit. I'm so upset, I'm simply not going to say anything, but Good Night!!!!

(11-13-2018 11:10 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  

(11-13-2018 11:01 PM)Nacho Wrote:  Just as expected.. another rah rah post to tell everyone to step off the ledge.

Flush, why sell your season tickets when you could just not buy them in the first place? It would save you a step and some money because you ain't getting face value out of those!

I have suite tix that requires a 3 year buy in.

I am NOT rah rah rah right now... I am LIVID... but i'm also being a realist. There is NO way you pull a 4 star WR commit in the middle of what we are watching if you can't prove the situation isn't what it looks like... We have talent... TONS of it... and our coaching staff knows its getting warmer under their seats....

I listened to the radio pre-game and they interviewed Daoust... The guy had NO voice.. It was as if he had been yelling his backside off the entire week... He was also very open about our problems on the D side of the ball and wanted to make sure his guys played with speed... There is NO WAY he's not yelling at these kids to be better... and tonight they were still missing angles and assignments... etc. At some point that isn't any longer on the coaches but the freaking players to be BETTER.

Exactly.

(11-14-2018 05:59 AM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  Exactly.

Simple question, Brindlee...not so simple...

Can THESE players reach their on-field potential with THESE coaches?

Not "will", but can...

From the outside, it appears that change is needed. But, change comes in lots of forms.

MAC coaches, for decades, have generally put their best athletes on offense. It continues to this day. Oh, I know the MAC has produced great defensive players like Jack Lambert and John Offerdahl but the big picture, for a long time, has been offense. P5 schools are able to recruit talented enough athletes to fill positions on both sides of the ball. MAC schools, generally, fight over the players that remain. Unfortunately, WMU’s defense, through attrition and recruiting, has come up quite a bit short this Fall.

That’s great he’s yelling. I’m yelling to but if you don’t know how to fix it all the yelling in the world doesn’t matter.

It seems more in line with Tims party of friends who watch games together and yell at the TV. Coordinators need to be tacticians not emotional. That’s what position coaches are for.

Lester looks like a prime OC candidate but unfortunately he’s terrible at that too based off his records at other schools who have put up pin ball numbers as soon as he left.

(11-14-2018 07:44 AM)Wmufan715 Wrote:  That’s great he’s yelling. I’m yelling to but if you don’t know how to fix it all the yelling in the world doesn’t matter.

It seems more in line with Tims party of friends who watch games together and yell at the TV. Coordinators need to be tacticians not emotional. That’s what position coaches are for.

Lester looks like a prime OC candidate but unfortunately he’s terrible at that too based off his records at other schools who have put up pin ball numbers as soon as he left.

Yeah, if yelling isn't having the desired effect, then probably should try something else. Yelling and coaching are two different things.

You know what has the desired effect? Accountability and consequences. Don't want to listen or put in the effort required? Scholarships aren't for four years, they're one year.

(11-14-2018 06:39 AM)AFLAGWA Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 05:59 AM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  Exactly.

Simple question, Brindlee...not so simple...

Can THESE players reach their on-field potential with THESE coaches?

Not "will", but can...

From the outside, it appears that change is needed. But, change comes in lots of forms.

I honestly don't know. Given what I saw last night, I doubt any coach could get most of them to play with a fire in their boilers. They just flat out don't seem to give two shts.

Could fire Lester, sure. The whole staff, even. What that does, though, is set what I think is a dangerous precedent; players running the show. If it were possible, and if I were coach, I'd pretty much tell most of the 2 deep that their scholarships for next are dependent on how they perform against NIU.

[quote='Stampede your face!!' pid='15663339'
Yeah, if yelling isn't having the desired effect, then probably should try something else. Yelling and coaching are two different things.

You know what has the desired effect? Accountability and consequences. Don't want to listen or put in the effort required? Scholarships aren't for four years, they're one year.
[/quote]

A question; at the P5 schools, scholarships are, effectively, good for 4 years, barring behavioral problems (violation of team rules, convictions, and the like). Do the G5 programs or conferences have a similar policy, or can scholarships actually be "taken away"?

(11-14-2018 08:33 AM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 06:39 AM)AFLAGWA Wrote:  

(11-14-2018 05:59 AM)Brindlee2015 Wrote:  Exactly.

Simple question, Brindlee...not so simple...

Can THESE players reach their on-field potential with THESE coaches?

Not "will", but can...

From the outside, it appears that change is needed. But, change comes in lots of forms.

I honestly don't know. Given what I saw last night, I doubt any coach could get most of them to play with a fire in their boilers. They just flat out don't seem to give two shts.

Could fire Lester, sure. The whole staff, even. What that does, though, is set what I think is a dangerous precedent; players running the show. If it were possible, and if I were coach, I'd pretty much tell most of the 2 deep that their scholarships for next are dependent on how they perform against NIU.

Would be somewhat understandable if we were dead in the water like CMU or Kent State. But it's alarming given we had a lot to play for, even up to last night.

Regardless of who's "fault" it is, sounds like the culture has really deteriorated in two short years. It wasn't long ago that every player wanted to run through walls on game day.

In fact, given our never-quit second half comebacks earlier in this season, I thought this problem might've been resolved.

You made some really good points in this post, but can we PLEASE stop it with the "if we had Wassink" line. Wassink has gone down two years in a row and that's been the excuse for NOT playing well. We have a young QB in Eleby who SHOULD be the future of the program, but I'm not sure if he even wants to stick around ? Mussat and Rector are not getting a chance to prove themselves in which they could probably help. The Wassink era should be over at WMU!!!! The coaching staff needs to go out and RECRUIT defensive players with mental toughness and a willingness to win.

(11-13-2018 10:57 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I can honestly say that I was almost physically destructive angry tonight as I watched this game...

Now that I have had some time... now that I was able to step back and think about this entire WMU Football situation I have calmed down a touch...

Why?

Well this is a not a team that was built on defense. We knew going into this season that the DL was going to be rough... the DB's were going to be rough... This team was built on a ball control offense this season with a QB that could stretch a defense and keep the ground game churning. This positioned us well in games.

Nobody should be surprised by tonights outcome... (me included... as I keep throwing stuff). This defense is just a shell of what it could be if we could actually play man coverage on ANYONE... At some point you have to wonder if the coaches themselves are as dumfounded as we are... Without Wassink this offense is predictable... we can't throw it vertically... we can't stretch the field with Eleby just yet... JUST YET! And we still ran it roughshod all over the BSU defense.

Defense is our problem... and after tonight I am not sure its a Daoust issue or a position coach issue.... or maybe... JUST FREAKING MAYBE these guys are not playing up to their potential... I saw so many bad angles on long plays and DB's losing their guy in space, giving up a wide open 10yard catch in the flat... just bad individual performances... In fact the DL was the only bright point of tonights defensive effort... they were moving the line.....forcing the BSU QB out of the pocket and making him uncomfortable ... but the QB always had a safety out who was WIDE FREAKING OPEN!

We aren't good... we just aren't. We are not a good football team. We have a very talented roster but we aren't yet together under the new regime. So many young guys in new positions. A true frosh QB who looks like a true frosh. So many things tonight just went bad... just bad. Special teams improved a little... but we can't lean on them for field position. I will say this... if we look like this next year... I will be selling my season tickets...

(11-14-2018 08:58 AM)scott357 Wrote:  You made some really good points in this post, but can we PLEASE stop it with the "if we had Wassink" line. Wassink has gone down two years in a row and that's been the excuse for NOT playing well. We have a young QB in Eleby who SHOULD be the future of the program, but I'm not sure if he even wants to stick around ? Mussat and Rector are not getting a chance to prove themselves in which they could probably help. The Wassink era should be over at WMU!!!! The coaching staff needs to go out and RECRUIT defensive players with mental toughness and a willingness to win.

(11-13-2018 10:57 PM)flushtheherd Wrote:  I can honestly say that I was almost physically destructive angry tonight as I watched this game...

Now that I have had some time... now that I was able to step back and think about this entire WMU Football situation I have calmed down a touch...

Why?

Well this is a not a team that was built on defense. We knew going into this season that the DL was going to be rough... the DB's were going to be rough... This team was built on a ball control offense this season with a QB that could stretch a defense and keep the ground game churning. This positioned us well in games.

Nobody should be surprised by tonights outcome... (me included... as I keep throwing stuff). This defense is just a shell of what it could be if we could actually play man coverage on ANYONE... At some point you have to wonder if the coaches themselves are as dumfounded as we are... Without Wassink this offense is predictable... we can't throw it vertically... we can't stretch the field with Eleby just yet... JUST YET! And we still ran it roughshod all over the BSU defense.

Defense is our problem... and after tonight I am not sure its a Daoust issue or a position coach issue.... or maybe... JUST FREAKING MAYBE these guys are not playing up to their potential... I saw so many bad angles on long plays and DB's losing their guy in space, giving up a wide open 10yard catch in the flat... just bad individual performances... In fact the DL was the only bright point of tonights defensive effort... they were moving the line.....forcing the BSU QB out of the pocket and making him uncomfortable ... but the QB always had a safety out who was WIDE FREAKING OPEN!

We aren't good... we just aren't. We are not a good football team. We have a very talented roster but we aren't yet together under the new regime. So many young guys in new positions. A true frosh QB who looks like a true frosh. So many things tonight just went bad... just bad. Special teams improved a little... but we can't lean on them for field position. I will say this... if we look like this next year... I will be selling my season tickets...

I didn't say in this post that "If we had Wassink"... I am saying that it takes time to break in a true freshman QB and we still put up over 540 yards of offense... We don't beat either BGSU or Miami this year without Wassink... I will say that with certainty... he was able to stretch the field in both of those games which allowed us to stay close enough to pull out unlikely wins... Eleby is still learning this offense and who's to say that 2pt conversion wasn't a bad call by Eleby at the line... who knows. Maybe he was supposed to pull that but mis-read the defense and gave it to the RB... These are things that happen in this offense with a young guy behind center. He performed admirably and did not in ANY way cost us this game.

DEFENSE COST US THAT GAME! Daoust has worn out his welcome. It's apparent that he's just not capable of getting the most out of his players.... they just don't seem to be picking up what he's selling. His defense at BSU in 2016 was gawd awful... hmmm... Nothing has changed the last two years here at WMU. The flip side to this coin is recruiting.... and Esposito is apparently one of the better recruiters on this staff so you might need to keep him around... It's possible you just elevate Espo, ditch Daoust and bring in a new DL coach to replace Espo at that capacity. I think this is the first year for Sanchez coaching the defensive backfield... im not impressed. Maybe he needs to go too... Tim has some shuffling to do ...

(11-14-2018 08:47 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  Would be somewhat understandable if we were dead in the water like CMU or Kent State. But it's alarming given we had a lot to play for, even up to last night.

Regardless of who's "fault" it is, sounds like the culture has really deteriorated in two short years. It wasn't long ago that every player wanted to run through walls on game day.

In fact, given our never-quit second half comebacks earlier in this season, I thought this problem might've been resolved.

To me, it appears that once we got that sixth win at CMU, the team basically went into "@#$% it" mode.