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Rice has no shame
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interwebowl Offline
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Post: #1
Rice has no shame
In the past couple of weeks I received my owl club renewal notice and my Rice magazine. One featured a feel good article about the great Wayne Graham and the other a prominent pitch about Wayne's association with Rice. No quotes from him btw or even a mention that he flatly refuses to have anything to do with the current AD including participating in a ceremony to honor him. The Owl club pitch even implies, by using his image and name, that he would be in favor of supporting Rice athletics and the owl club. When last I checked he was backing and supporting the Horns. It is my understanding that he thinks Rice athletics is a losing proposition and he is not encouraging any of his friends or supporters to give them a dime.

No matter what you think about his being shown the door to the house he built, Rice has no business trying to use him to further their agenda without his permission. Way to stay klassy and not tell the donors the truth!
11-12-2018 08:24 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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RE: Rice has no shame
??? From what I've heard (from several VERY reliable sources), Wayne has been in frequest contact with Coach Bragga. As for the animosity between The OG and Karlgaard, that's not exactly a secret.
11-12-2018 08:41 PM
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Owlmaha Offline
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RE: Rice has no shame
Hi Walt-
I thought that sounded funny so I called Wayne and asked him. He said that he does not talk to Bragga or even Paul. Whoever is telling you that is lying to you.
11-13-2018 11:20 AM
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elw4796 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Rice has no shame
I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.
11-13-2018 12:40 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Rice has no shame
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

I'm sure Graham has fond memories of various wins and games and seasons. Given that Owlmaha claims to have called him, it sounds like he's maintained some connections to those from Rice that he likes.

But I mean, if you hate the people who run the place, what are you really supposed to "come back to" from an institutional POV?
11-13-2018 12:45 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Rice has no shame
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

Its been 6 months since the season ended. I suggest we check back in on this in 1-2 years and see where things are.
11-13-2018 12:49 PM
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Frizzy Owl Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Rice has no shame
(11-13-2018 12:45 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

I'm sure Graham has fond memories of various wins and games and seasons. Given that Owlmaha claims to have called him, it sounds like he's maintained some connections to those from Rice that he likes.

But I mean, if you hate the people who run the place, what are you really supposed to "come back to" from an institutional POV?

This.

He's no longer working for Rice, so he doesn't owe Rice anything. Up to him.
11-13-2018 12:50 PM
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Antarius Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Rice has no shame
(11-13-2018 12:50 PM)Frizzy Owl Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 12:45 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

I'm sure Graham has fond memories of various wins and games and seasons. Given that Owlmaha claims to have called him, it sounds like he's maintained some connections to those from Rice that he likes.

But I mean, if you hate the people who run the place, what are you really supposed to "come back to" from an institutional POV?

This.

He's no longer working for Rice, so he doesn't owe Rice anything. Up to him.

Its a two way street though. If neither side gives a **** about the other anymore, then the entire point of the OP is moot too.
11-13-2018 04:40 PM
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Owlmaha Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Rice has no shame
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

Look, I really don't want to get to involved in this because I am pretty much done with Rice athletics. I still love Rice University, but the athletic department is another story.

As to Wayne abandoning Rice, I guess it depends on your perspective, but since I was very close to Wayne and remain so I can say that focusing on the ending kind of misses the point of the whole thing. Wayne felt that he had no support from the AD since Joe showed up. The personalities did not mix very well because one has a ton of skins on the wall and the other, well, not so much. Maybe it was insecurity, or maybe it was Joe's relentless focus on football at the expense of everything else, but the level of support Wayne had from even Greenspan went down considerably.

Wayne had pleaded for the batting barn and completion of Reckling Park for years and the money was raised, by baseball people not Athletic people, years before. Interestingly, Joe sat on the money and did nothing until Wayne's last season. The donors who gave that money gave it to help Wayne and he was never allowed to benefit from it. You figure that one out.

Wayne wanted Rice to bid for conference and NCAA tourneys and the reason we went to Hattiesburg year after year is that Rice did not submit a competitive bid. That never happened before Joe. Now maybe we were outsmarted by USM but that kind of speaks volumes.

There was also the continued disrespect of Rice people by Joe that got under his skin. Kim Koehn, Jimmy Comerota and Brent Scott had nothing but love for Rice and were discarded like second hand garbage by Joe. More recently the horrific treatment of Daniel Watson by Joe/Bragga shows that this pattern is still in place.

In addition, it seemed every time athletes were involved in honor council disputes, the baseball players were thrown under the bus while the football players were protected. His department even took the unusual step of removing a player from the field before his appeals were exhausted the day before the season was slated to begin. In the end he was reinstated, but the team scrambled without a starting middle infielder for the first month. On a personal level, Joe's meetings with Wayne showed, per Wayne, a complete lack of respect for him. At least one of them is recorded for posterity. In Wayne's mind, it was clear that the last thing Joe wanted was baseball to win. An athletic director rooting against his own team? Go figure!

Wayne Graham gave so much to Rice including his back as he continued to coach his kids. If he wanted a victory lap he deserved it. In the end, that too was denied by Joe and mysteriously his BOT friend gave him a three year extension at the same time. IMO, iF JK got three and Wayne was not allowed one, Rice has no conception of a meritocracy.

I know many on Parliament still support Wayne and even though Rice has been a disaster, the good people in Austin have embraced him as one of their own. He is treated at UT like a hall of fame coach and given respect at every function he attends. Too bad Rice did not allow this to happen here. In fact, I think plans are in the works to honor Wayne Graham at a Longhorn baseball game this season. He has agreed to attend that one because everyone from the President of the University to the Athletic Director and former players is treating him with the respect, I think anyway, he deserves.
11-13-2018 05:36 PM
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waltgreenberg Offline
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RE: Rice has no shame
(11-13-2018 05:36 PM)Owlmaha Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

Look, I really don't want to get to involved in this because I am pretty much done with Rice athletics. I still love Rice University, but the athletic department is another story.

As to Wayne abandoning Rice, I guess it depends on your perspective, but since I was very close to Wayne and remain so I can say that focusing on the ending kind of misses the point of the whole thing. Wayne felt that he had no support from the AD since Joe showed up. The personalities did not mix very well because one has a ton of skins on the wall and the other, well, not so much. Maybe it was insecurity, or maybe it was Joe's relentless focus on football at the expense of everything else, but the level of support Wayne had from even Greenspan went down considerably.

Wayne had pleaded for the batting barn and completion of Reckling Park for years and the money was raised, by baseball people not Athletic people, years before. Interestingly, Joe sat on the money and did nothing until Wayne's last season. The donors who gave that money gave it to help Wayne and he was never allowed to benefit from it. You figure that one out.

Wayne wanted Rice to bid for conference and NCAA tourneys and the reason we went to Hattiesburg year after year is that Rice did not submit a competitive bid. That never happened before Joe. Now maybe we were outsmarted by USM but that kind of speaks volumes.

There was also the continued disrespect of Rice people by Joe that got under his skin. Kim Koehn, Jimmy Comerota and Brent Scott had nothing but love for Rice and were discarded like second hand garbage by Joe. More recently the horrific treatment of Daniel Watson by Joe/Bragga shows that this pattern is still in place.

In addition, it seemed every time athletes were involved in honor council disputes, the baseball players were thrown under the bus while the football players were protected. His department even took the unusual step of removing a player from the field before his appeals were exhausted the day before the season was slated to begin. In the end he was reinstated, but the team scrambled without a starting middle infielder for the first month. On a personal level, Joe's meetings with Wayne showed, per Wayne, a complete lack of respect for him. At least one of them is recorded for posterity. In Wayne's mind, it was clear that the last thing Joe wanted was baseball to win. An athletic director rooting against his own team? Go figure!

Wayne Graham gave so much to Rice including his back as he continued to coach his kids. If he wanted a victory lap he deserved it. In the end, that too was denied by Joe and mysteriously his BOT friend gave him a three year extension at the same time. IMO, iF JK got three and Wayne was not allowed one, Rice has no conception of a meritocracy.

I know many on Parliament still support Wayne and even though Rice has been a disaster, the good people in Austin have embraced him as one of their own. He is treated at UT like a hall of fame coach and given respect at every function he attends. Too bad Rice did not allow this to happen here. In fact, I think plans are in the works to honor Wayne Graham at a Longhorn baseball game this season. He has agreed to attend that one because everyone from the President of the University to the Athletic Director and former players is treating him with the respect, I think anyway, he deserves.

04-bow
11-13-2018 06:37 PM
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owl at the moon Offline
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Post: #11
Rice has no shame
Have we at least dedicated his tree, as a 20+ year school employee?

I wonder this every time I’m on campus.
11-13-2018 08:51 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Rice has no shame
I think Owlmaha makes some compelling points in his posts.

My point of contention would be that if Joe was diverting baseball resources to football under Bailiff, he did a really ****** job of it.
11-13-2018 08:58 PM
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mrbig Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Rice has no shame
(1) If Karlgaard's goal was to improve Rice's opportunities during conference realignment, then it makes some sense to shift resources from baseball to football. Football is the driver and baseball is a distant 3rd behind football and men's basketball. Not saying it would be my approach, especially with Rice Baseball's history as an elite program. But there are at least valid arguments for the strategy.

(2) If this is what Karlgaard was doing, then as noted by ExcitedOwl18 above, "he did a really ****** job of it." Like super-duper ****** with dung-flavored whipped cream and a dingleberry on top. If he starved baseball for 5 years to improve football, and what we see is the result, he should be fired today. While there are valid arguments for the strategy, the result of his efforts was all 3 top men's sports having their worst stretches (cumulatively) in more than 2 decades.
11-14-2018 10:32 AM
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ausowl Online
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Post: #14
RE: Rice has no shame
(11-13-2018 06:37 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 05:36 PM)Owlmaha Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

Look, I really don't want to get to involved in this because I am pretty much done with Rice athletics. I still love Rice University, but the athletic department is another story.

As to Wayne abandoning Rice, I guess it depends on your perspective, but since I was very close to Wayne and remain so I can say that focusing on the ending kind of misses the point of the whole thing. Wayne felt that he had no support from the AD since Joe showed up. The personalities did not mix very well because one has a ton of skins on the wall and the other, well, not so much. Maybe it was insecurity, or maybe it was Joe's relentless focus on football at the expense of everything else, but the level of support Wayne had from even Greenspan went down considerably.

Wayne had pleaded for the batting barn and completion of Reckling Park for years and the money was raised, by baseball people not Athletic people, years before. Interestingly, Joe sat on the money and did nothing until Wayne's last season. The donors who gave that money gave it to help Wayne and he was never allowed to benefit from it. You figure that one out.

Wayne wanted Rice to bid for conference and NCAA tourneys and the reason we went to Hattiesburg year after year is that Rice did not submit a competitive bid. That never happened before Joe. Now maybe we were outsmarted by USM but that kind of speaks volumes.

There was also the continued disrespect of Rice people by Joe that got under his skin. Kim Koehn, Jimmy Comerota and Brent Scott had nothing but love for Rice and were discarded like second hand garbage by Joe. More recently the horrific treatment of Daniel Watson by Joe/Bragga shows that this pattern is still in place.

In addition, it seemed every time athletes were involved in honor council disputes, the baseball players were thrown under the bus while the football players were protected. His department even took the unusual step of removing a player from the field before his appeals were exhausted the day before the season was slated to begin. In the end he was reinstated, but the team scrambled without a starting middle infielder for the first month. On a personal level, Joe's meetings with Wayne showed, per Wayne, a complete lack of respect for him. At least one of them is recorded for posterity. In Wayne's mind, it was clear that the last thing Joe wanted was baseball to win. An athletic director rooting against his own team? Go figure!

Wayne Graham gave so much to Rice including his back as he continued to coach his kids. If he wanted a victory lap he deserved it. In the end, that too was denied by Joe and mysteriously his BOT friend gave him a three year extension at the same time. IMO, iF JK got three and Wayne was not allowed one, Rice has no conception of a meritocracy.

I know many on Parliament still support Wayne and even though Rice has been a disaster, the good people in Austin have embraced him as one of their own. He is treated at UT like a hall of fame coach and given respect at every function he attends. Too bad Rice did not allow this to happen here. In fact, I think plans are in the works to honor Wayne Graham at a Longhorn baseball game this season. He has agreed to attend that one because everyone from the President of the University to the Athletic Director and former players is treating him with the respect, I think anyway, he deserves.

04-bow

Leading contender for "most depressing post of the year" award.

Following that thought, this from UT Athletics today re class of 2019 Letter of Intent:

André Duplantier II | RHP/INF | 6-2 | 198 | R/R | Summer Creek HS | Humble, Texas

Personal: Son of André and Dr. Lestavia Duplantier…has a younger brother, Jayden…his cousin, Jon, is in the Arizona Diamondbacks system and was an All-American and 2016 C-USA pitcher of the year while at Rice.

High school: Lettered in every season at Summer Creek High School under head coach D.J. Wilson…has played third, shortstop, and pitched…named first team All-District pitcher as a junior and senior and second team All-District at third base in both of those seasons…named to the Perfect Game World Wood Bat Championship All-Tournament team as both a hitter and pitcher on three occasions (2016, 2017, 2018).

I chose Texas because: "…I felt so much energy each time I would speak to the coaches. When I have had the opportunity to play on the diamond there at the Disch, I loved the feeling of being on the that field even though I have played on other college fields."


Allen on Duplantier: "Dré is a very physical kid that has the ability to pitch and hit for us. His pro future is probably on the mound but we are looking forward to seeing if he can do both for us. He is an upper 80s low 90s pitcher that has a plus slider right now. We feel like he is just scratching the surface with how good he could be on the mound."

Pierce on Duplantier: "There is a lot to love about André. He is put together physically, he's athletic, and he's an awesome kid. He will absolutely be a major contributor in our program. He has plus arm strength and will compete as a two-way player."
11-14-2018 01:01 PM
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ExcitedOwl18 Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Rice has no shame
(11-14-2018 01:01 PM)ausowl Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 06:37 PM)waltgreenberg Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 05:36 PM)Owlmaha Wrote:  
(11-13-2018 12:40 PM)elw4796 Wrote:  I have a genuine question here because I've tried to stay out of the whole Graham thing. Has he really just up and abandoned Rice after coaching here for 26 years? I understand the ending was messy (and that you can make an argument that Graham didn't exactly make the situation any easier), but that just rubs me completely the wrong way. I get being peeved with the AD and key players, but I would think there would still be some sort of connection/bond to the actual school. I just don't understand how this entire thing devolved to where we are now.

Look, I really don't want to get to involved in this because I am pretty much done with Rice athletics. I still love Rice University, but the athletic department is another story.

As to Wayne abandoning Rice, I guess it depends on your perspective, but since I was very close to Wayne and remain so I can say that focusing on the ending kind of misses the point of the whole thing. Wayne felt that he had no support from the AD since Joe showed up. The personalities did not mix very well because one has a ton of skins on the wall and the other, well, not so much. Maybe it was insecurity, or maybe it was Joe's relentless focus on football at the expense of everything else, but the level of support Wayne had from even Greenspan went down considerably.

Wayne had pleaded for the batting barn and completion of Reckling Park for years and the money was raised, by baseball people not Athletic people, years before. Interestingly, Joe sat on the money and did nothing until Wayne's last season. The donors who gave that money gave it to help Wayne and he was never allowed to benefit from it. You figure that one out.

Wayne wanted Rice to bid for conference and NCAA tourneys and the reason we went to Hattiesburg year after year is that Rice did not submit a competitive bid. That never happened before Joe. Now maybe we were outsmarted by USM but that kind of speaks volumes.

There was also the continued disrespect of Rice people by Joe that got under his skin. Kim Koehn, Jimmy Comerota and Brent Scott had nothing but love for Rice and were discarded like second hand garbage by Joe. More recently the horrific treatment of Daniel Watson by Joe/Bragga shows that this pattern is still in place.

In addition, it seemed every time athletes were involved in honor council disputes, the baseball players were thrown under the bus while the football players were protected. His department even took the unusual step of removing a player from the field before his appeals were exhausted the day before the season was slated to begin. In the end he was reinstated, but the team scrambled without a starting middle infielder for the first month. On a personal level, Joe's meetings with Wayne showed, per Wayne, a complete lack of respect for him. At least one of them is recorded for posterity. In Wayne's mind, it was clear that the last thing Joe wanted was baseball to win. An athletic director rooting against his own team? Go figure!

Wayne Graham gave so much to Rice including his back as he continued to coach his kids. If he wanted a victory lap he deserved it. In the end, that too was denied by Joe and mysteriously his BOT friend gave him a three year extension at the same time. IMO, iF JK got three and Wayne was not allowed one, Rice has no conception of a meritocracy.

I know many on Parliament still support Wayne and even though Rice has been a disaster, the good people in Austin have embraced him as one of their own. He is treated at UT like a hall of fame coach and given respect at every function he attends. Too bad Rice did not allow this to happen here. In fact, I think plans are in the works to honor Wayne Graham at a Longhorn baseball game this season. He has agreed to attend that one because everyone from the President of the University to the Athletic Director and former players is treating him with the respect, I think anyway, he deserves.

04-bow

Leading contender for "most depressing post of the year" award.

Following that thought, this from UT Athletics today re class of 2019 Letter of Intent:

André Duplantier II | RHP/INF | 6-2 | 198 | R/R | Summer Creek HS | Humble, Texas

Personal: Son of André and Dr. Lestavia Duplantier…has a younger brother, Jayden…his cousin, Jon, is in the Arizona Diamondbacks system and was an All-American and 2016 C-USA pitcher of the year while at Rice.

High school: Lettered in every season at Summer Creek High School under head coach D.J. Wilson…has played third, shortstop, and pitched…named first team All-District pitcher as a junior and senior and second team All-District at third base in both of those seasons…named to the Perfect Game World Wood Bat Championship All-Tournament team as both a hitter and pitcher on three occasions (2016, 2017, 2018).

I chose Texas because: "…I felt so much energy each time I would speak to the coaches. When I have had the opportunity to play on the diamond there at the Disch, I loved the feeling of being on the that field even though I have played on other college fields."


Allen on Duplantier: "Dré is a very physical kid that has the ability to pitch and hit for us. His pro future is probably on the mound but we are looking forward to seeing if he can do both for us. He is an upper 80s low 90s pitcher that has a plus slider right now. We feel like he is just scratching the surface with how good he could be on the mound."

Pierce on Duplantier: "There is a lot to love about André. He is put together physically, he's athletic, and he's an awesome kid. He will absolutely be a major contributor in our program. He has plus arm strength and will compete as a two-way player."

Oh well. In fairness to Bragga, he’s gotten a couple of big commits over the last several weeks and really joined too late to make much of an impact in the 2019 class (baseball recruiting is seemingly done years in advance).
11-14-2018 01:10 PM
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