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A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
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Nerdlinger Offline
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A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
I understand the history behind the current ACC "zipper" divisional alignment. Back in the early '00s, there was simply no way to have all the NC schools together and still have competitive balance between the divisions. Plus there was a need to keep the two strongest teams at the time (FSU and Miami) in separate divisions. TBH, the current alignment is actually still quite balanced in football strength. However, at this point, the strength of the individual members has changed such that the divisions could be realigned with the NC schools together while still retaining that balance. And critically, the most important rivalries among all the members can be maintained as well, either through in-division play or protected crossovers. Since the current ACC lineup is likely locked in until 2036 by their GoR, now is as good a time as any for the schools to put themselves in a more suitable alignment.

Here's what I propose:

Atlantic: Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Coastal: Louisville, Pittsburgh, Miami-FL, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Virginia, Syracuse

The protected annual crossovers:

Clemson/Louisville
Duke/Pittsburgh
Florida State/Miami-FL
Georgia Tech/Virginia Tech
NC State/Boston College
North Carolina/Virginia
Wake Forest/Syracuse

This way, Duke/NC State and UNC/Wake don't have to be played 5-7 years apart or OOC. Miami can play BC and Syracuse every year, as they had desired to when coming into the ACC. FSU/GT is once again annual. And both divisions still have access to Florida.

So what do you all think? Any downsides to this? Is inertia the only thing preventing such a realignment at this point?
11-11-2018 04:50 PM
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wleakr Offline
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Post: #2
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
If this is related to football. where does Notre Dame fit in your plan? Plus, teams are constantly shifting in strength. Is there really a reason to shuffle teams around for something that you can never account for?

Unless the ACC is adding or dropping teams, leave the conference lineup as is.
11-11-2018 05:38 PM
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CvilleDukes Online
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.
11-11-2018 06:16 PM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #4
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

You got it. Finally a voice of reason.
Divisions should be Big East + FSU vs ACC from 1990.

But all conferences should:
1) get rid of divisions
2) play 9 conference games (5 permanent opps), this way everyone plays each other in 2 year span
3) conf champ game is #1 vs #2 in conference
11-11-2018 06:21 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 05:38 PM)wleakr Wrote:  If this is related to football. where does Notre Dame fit in your plan? Plus, teams are constantly shifting in strength. Is there really a reason to shuffle teams around for something that you can never account for?

Unless the ACC is adding or dropping teams, leave the conference lineup as is.

I would think Notre Dame remains semi-independent in football, as it currently is. It's been 13 years since the divisions were formed. Why not switch things up if it would improve most schools' schedules?

(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

The only teams Virginia currently plays annually that they would not in this alignment are Duke and Georgia Tech, which they're exchanging for BC and Syracuse. Are Duke/UVA and GT/UVA particularly strong rivalries?

I agree about the ridiculousness of playing a team in your own conference every six years. However, that's unlikely to change unless CCGs and divisions are deregulated.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 07:32 AM by Nerdlinger.)
11-11-2018 06:26 PM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 06:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

You got it. Finally a voice of reason.
Divisions should be Big East + FSU vs ACC from 1990.

The trouble with that alignment is the divisions aren't very well balanced. You've got just Clemson as a power on one side and FSU, Miami, VT, and Louisville on the other.
(This post was last modified: 11-11-2018 06:29 PM by Nerdlinger.)
11-11-2018 06:29 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #7
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 06:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

You got it. Finally a voice of reason.
Divisions should be Big East + FSU vs ACC from 1990.

But all conferences should:
1) get rid of divisions
2) play 9 conference games (5 permanent opps), this way everyone plays each other in 2 year span
3) conf champ game is #1 vs #2 in conference

Nailed it on all 3 counts.
11-11-2018 06:39 PM
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CvilleDukes Online
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Post: #8
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 06:26 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

The only teams Virginia currently plays annually that they would not in this alignment are Duke and Georgia Tech, which they're exchanging for BC and Syracuse. Are Duke/UVA and GT/UVA particularly strong rivalries?

Not particularly strong but much better then playing more Big East teams. Swap UVA and FSU and I could live with that.
11-11-2018 06:43 PM
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CvilleDukes Online
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 06:39 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

You got it. Finally a voice of reason.
Divisions should be Big East + FSU vs ACC from 1990.

But all conferences should:
1) get rid of divisions
2) play 9 conference games (5 permanent opps), this way everyone plays each other in 2 year span
3) conf champ game is #1 vs #2 in conference

Nailed it on all 3 counts.

Bingo. Hopefully common sense will prevail once GOR contracts expire. Probably not at the P5 level but likely at lower levels.
11-11-2018 06:45 PM
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Fighting Muskie Online
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Post: #10
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
Pre-90 and Post-90 make for good divisions on some levels. It maintains a lot of rivalries with UVA-VT & Clemson-FSU being the main crossovers that would need to be preserved.

Downsides are that the Pre-90 division really has one great team in Clemson, unless GT returns to their old form. Post-90 is full of strong teams. Pre-90 loses its access to Florida which could be a point of contention.
11-11-2018 09:39 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #11
A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
I like it. Everyone but Cavman would like it too. Cavman would be suuuuuuper pissy though.

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(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 01:48 AM by georgia_tech_swagger.)
11-12-2018 01:13 AM
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Scoochpooch1 Offline
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Post: #12
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 06:29 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

You got it. Finally a voice of reason.
Divisions should be Big East + FSU vs ACC from 1990.

The trouble with that alignment is the divisions aren't very well balanced. You've got just Clemson as a power on one side and FSU, Miami, VT, and Louisville on the other.

Sure, you're probably right about that now. But it's obvious that the biggest driver for fans is playing rivalry matches. UVA is a Southern school that doesn't want to play the Big East. Miami is in the South but is more like a Northeastern school.

Again, I want full deregulation. Really pissed that Big Ten and SEC blocked it. I know their fears but as lawyers they could have easily forced the ACC to release it's conference format for the next 10-20 years if necessary. Bama playing Georgia every 12 years is ridiculous for example.
11-12-2018 01:37 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-11-2018 04:50 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  I understand the history behind the current ACC "zipper" divisional alignment. Back in the early '00s, there was simply no way to have all the NC schools together and still have competitive balance between the divisions. Plus there was a need to keep the two strongest teams at the time (FSU and Miami) in separate divisions. TBH, the current alignment is actually still quite balanced in football strength. However, at this point, the strength of the individual members has changed such that the divisions could be realigned with the NC schools together while still retaining that balance. And critically, the most important rivalries among all the members can be maintained as well, either through in-division play or protected crossovers. Since the current ACC lineup is likely locked in until 2036 by their GoR, now is as good a time as any for the schools to put themselves in a more suitable alignment.

Here's what I propose:

Atlantic: Clemson, Duke, Florida State, Georgia Tech, NC State, North Carolina, Wake Forest
Coastal: Louisville, Pittsburgh, Miami-FL, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Virginia, Syracuse

The protected annual crossovers:

Clemson/Louisville
Duke/Pittsburgh
Florida State/Miami-FL
Georgia Tech/Virginia Tech
NC State/Boston College
North Carolina/Virginia
Wake Forest/Syracuse

This way, Duke/NC State and UNC/Wake don't have to be played 5-7 years apart or OOC. Miami can play BC and Syracuse every year, as they had desired to when coming into the ACC. FSU/GT is once again annual. And both divisions still have access to Florida.

So what do you all think? Any downsides to this? Is inertia the only thing preventing such a realignment at this point?

There are folks in the conference that don't want all four North Carolina schools in the same division because it's too convenient.
Travel:
Carolina to Duke 8 miles (although you do have to endure 17 stoplights)
Carolina to NC State 27 miles
Carolina to Wake Forest 85 miles
11-12-2018 05:35 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-12-2018 01:37 AM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:29 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:21 PM)Scoochpooch1 Wrote:  
(11-11-2018 06:16 PM)CvilleDukes Wrote:  The Coastal becomes the Big East minus Virginia. As a UVA fan this would be the worst realignment. I think the ACC needs to get rid of divisions or start playing cross division teams more often. It’s ridiculous to only play a cross division team in your conference at home once in six years. Might as well be in a different conference at that point.

You got it. Finally a voice of reason.
Divisions should be Big East + FSU vs ACC from 1990.

The trouble with that alignment is the divisions aren't very well balanced. You've got just Clemson as a power on one side and FSU, Miami, VT, and Louisville on the other.

Sure, you're probably right about that now. But it's obvious that the biggest driver for fans is playing rivalry matches. UVA is a Southern school that doesn't want to play the Big East. Miami is in the South but is more like a Northeastern school.

Again, I want full deregulation. Really pissed that Big Ten and SEC blocked it. I know their fears but as lawyers they could have easily forced the ACC to release it's conference format for the next 10-20 years if necessary. Bama playing Georgia every 12 years is ridiculous for example.

The goal of my proposal here was to work within the current rules, but a divisionless alignment could solve a lot of scheduling problems. I developed divisionless schedules for all the power conferences with 12 or more teams here: https://csnbbs.com/thread-824495.html

Here's the ACC:

Code:
BOSTON COLLEGE  Syracuse        Miami-FL        Pittsburgh     | Florida State  | Wake Forest    
CLEMSON         Georgia Tech    Florida State   NC State       | Louisville     | Virginia Tech  
DUKE            Wake Forest     Georgia Tech    North Carolina | NC State       | Virginia        
FLORIDA STATE   Miami-FL        Clemson         Georgia Tech   | Boston College | Louisville      
GEORGIA TECH    Clemson         Duke            Florida State  | Virginia Tech  | Miami-FL        
LOUISVILLE      Pittsburgh      Virginia Tech   Virginia       | Clemson        | Florida State  
MIAMI-FL        Florida State   Boston College  Virginia Tech  | Syracuse       | Georgia Tech    
NC STATE        North Carolina  Wake Forest     Clemson        | Duke           | Syracuse        
NORTH CAROLINA  NC State        Virginia        Duke           | Wake Forest    | Pittsburgh      
PITTSBURGH      Louisville      Syracuse        Boston College | Virginia       | North Carolina  
SYRACUSE        Boston College  Pittsburgh      Wake Forest    | Miami-FL       | NC State        
VIRGINIA        Virginia Tech   North Carolina  Louisville     | Pittsburgh     | Duke            
VIRGINIA TECH   Virginia        Louisville      Miami-FL       | Georgia Tech   | Clemson        
WAKE FOREST     Duke            NC State        Syracuse       | North Carolina | Boston College

Each team could have 3 protected annual matchups (those are in the first 3 columns of opponents), while the half the remaining 10 opponents are played for 2 years, and then the other half for the next 2 years. Alternately, each team could have 4 or 5 protected annual matchups (tack on the opponents in the 4th column or the 4th and 5th to the first 3), while the remaining 4 or 3 games are played against a rotation of the other 8 opponents. I prefer only 3 protected matchups because it allows 2 full conference playthroughs in just 4 years (as opposed to the 12 years it currently takes). Having 4 or 5 protected matchups would take up to 6 years, which is still better than the current arrangement. Although if they did go to 9 conference games, 2 full conference playthroughs in 4 years would be doable even with 5 protected matchups.
(This post was last modified: 11-20-2018 08:31 PM by Nerdlinger.)
11-12-2018 09:20 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
A nine game schedule is going to be a hard no.
11-12-2018 09:26 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
Conferences would be better off adjusting divisions every 1-2 years, creating parity and allowing the weaker/rebuilding programs to face each other more often.
11-12-2018 09:41 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-12-2018 09:41 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Conferences would be better off adjusting divisions every 1-2 years, creating parity and allowing the weaker/rebuilding programs to face each other more often.

I agree that divisional arrangements should periodically be reassessed, particularly if the divide is specifically parity-based and not geographical. However, one downside to changing as frequently as you suggest is that it might confuse many fans.
11-12-2018 09:48 AM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-12-2018 09:48 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 09:41 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Conferences would be better off adjusting divisions every 1-2 years, creating parity and allowing the weaker/rebuilding programs to face each other more often.

I agree that divisional arrangements should periodically be reassessed, particularly if the divide is specifically parity-based and not geographical. However, one downside to changing as frequently as you suggest is that it might confuse many fans.

I think we can safely toss out the confusion aspect for fans, considering Nebraska/Maryland/Rutgers are in the B1G, Colorado/Utah are in the PAC, TA&M/Missouri are in the SEC, Syracuse/Pittsburgh/Louisville are in the ACC, and West Virginia is in the Big 12.

With the size/scope of conferences, geography went out the window in 2011/2012.
11-12-2018 09:55 AM
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Nerdlinger Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(11-12-2018 09:55 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 09:48 AM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 09:41 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Conferences would be better off adjusting divisions every 1-2 years, creating parity and allowing the weaker/rebuilding programs to face each other more often.

I agree that divisional arrangements should periodically be reassessed, particularly if the divide is specifically parity-based and not geographical. However, one downside to changing as frequently as you suggest is that it might confuse many fans.

I think we can safely toss out the confusion aspect for fans, considering Nebraska/Maryland/Rutgers are in the B1G, Colorado/Utah are in the PAC, TA&M/Missouri are in the SEC, Syracuse/Pittsburgh/Louisville are in the ACC, and West Virginia is in the Big 12.

With the size/scope of conferences, geography went out the window in 2011/2012.

But since the end of the Great Realignment (2014ish), the power conferences have remained stable in their membership and divisional structure. Switching up the divisions every, say, 10 years would be reasonable, but every 1-2 years with no predictable pattern is sure to cause confusion.

The Big Ten, Pac-12, and SEC (besides Missouri) are geographically aligned. It's really only the ACC that threw geography out the window (and the Big Ten, albeit briefly).
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 10:01 AM by Nerdlinger.)
11-12-2018 10:00 AM
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CarlSmithCenter Offline
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RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
Best case scenario IMHO is a deregulated situation that keeps eight conference games and where each team has 3 permanent opponents and then alternates playing 5 of the remaining 10 teams every other year. Keep the arrangement with Notre Dame but work with Clemson, Georgia Tech, FSU, Louisville, and, should Pitt resume the Backyard Brawl with WVU on an annual basis, them too to ensure that none of those teams have to play Notre Dame on the road in any season where they also have to play away games at their out-of-conference P5 rival to end the season. Also require that every team in the league play at least 3 OOC games against the P5 + ND every two years.
11-12-2018 09:52 PM
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