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A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #141
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(07-15-2019 09:59 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-12-2019 11:09 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Ok, so I DID find a general solution to a 3/2/2 pod system. It is complicated to explain, so I brought a picture [...]

Atlantic: Florida St (Clemson), Miami (Virginia Tech), & Boston College (Syracuse)
Coastal: Pittsburgh (Georgia Tech), Louisville (Virginia), & Syracuse (Boston College)
Pod A: Clemson (NC State, Florida St) & Georgia Tech (Duke, Pittsburgh)
Pod B: Virginia (UNC, Louisville) & Virginia Tech (Miami, Wake Forest)
Pod C: NC State (Clemson, UNC) & Wake Forest (Virginia Tech, Duke)
Pod D: Duke (Georgia Tech, Wake Forest) & UNC (Virginia, NC State)

Very cool! I think you need to swap the NC schools around though. How's this?

[Image: qlbStVU.png]

While it's nice and symmetric-looking, I'm not sure how well this fares schedule-wise. I tried to work it out but things got kind of messy. Basically, I think it needs to be symmetric horizontally as well as vertically, and I don't know if that would preserve the necessary rivalries.

Wow. Strike Two. I had even drawn up annual cross-overs to show it worked... but did so with those wrong pairings of NC schools.

I may give up on defining a general solution, so here is a specific solution with the same guaranteed rivals and the smaller pods redone to achieve a working rotation of crossovers.

Atlantic: FSU (Clem), Mia (VT), and BC (Syr)
Coastal: Lou (UVA), Pitt (GT), and Syr (BC)
Pod A: UVA (VT, Lou) and UNC (Duke, NCSt)
Pod B: VT (UVA, Mia) and Wake (Duke, NCSt)
Pod C: NCSt (UNC, Wake) and Clem (FSU, GT)
Pod D: GT (Clem, Pitt) and Duke (UNC, Wake)

The problem was that (among others) NC State was to play Duke cross-division in years NCSt-Clem & Duke-GT we’re both divisional... but GT and Clemson were always in the same division. Now, everyone has an open cross-divisional slot in the same years as their cross-divisional opponents.

Start next year by trading VT and Pitt for FSU and BC (fair trade, for optics); the following year exchange NC State and Clemson for GT and Duke (2 years removed from a National Championship may make this less lopsided); and so on.

Maybe keep “Atlantic” and “Coastal” and give up on having them mean anything (how many schools are actually on the coast?) as teams cycle in and out. While the 3-2-2 keeps the best rivalries, the 3-4 system has it beat for fan accessibility. My next trial may be a 3-3-1 with the portmanteau division names (only 2 teams are without a named home).
07-20-2019 09:26 AM
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TuckerGnat Offline
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Post: #142
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
(07-15-2019 09:59 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-12-2019 11:09 PM)Crayton Wrote:  
(07-09-2019 09:00 PM)Nerdlinger Wrote:  
(07-09-2019 01:11 PM)Crayton Wrote:  Finally figured it out!!! [something about teams having 3 permanent rivals and making divisions fit around those rivalries]
I like the thinking, but I tried to work out the nuts and bolts of this and ran into a problem.
[...]
You can almost certainly work out a functional schedule for a 3/2/2 pod system, but I don't know if you'd be able to protect all the necessary rivalries. Plus, it's even more confusing to fans than a 2/5 or 3/4 pod system. But I think you've got a good start here, so if you can figure it out, more power to you.
Ok, so I DID find a general solution to a 3/2/2 pod system. It is complicated to explain, so I brought a picture (attachment, I guess). Basically, the cross-pod rivalries need to be symetrical (specific opponents within a pod are not a contraint), with the 3-team pods either on the sides or above/below. Lots of flexibility still exists. I tried a number of configurations, but this kept the most desired rivalries.

The critique about it being "confusing to fans" could not be more right. The portmanteau division naming system with 4 pods makes things fan-accessible; "my team is always in the 'South' quad, so that means if an announcer uses the term 'South Coastal', I know they are talking about 'our' division".

The best I can come up with for the 3/2/2 system is to use a single, 14-team table, relegating mention of "Atlantic" and "Coastal" to a note ("a" or "c") next to each team. The CCG would still feature the 2 division winners, although different tie-breakers could be used to emphasise the single table. The top of the 2018 standings might look like this (GT/Mia switched with Syr/Lou):

#1 (8-0)a Clemson
#2 (6-2)c Pittsburgh
#3 (6-2)c Syracuse
#4 (5-3)a Georgia Tech
#5 (5-3)a NC State
Pittsburgh and Syracuse share a pod and are both in the Coastal, so Pitt advances to play Clemson in the title game on the basis of their head-to-head victory over Syracuse.

In case the attachment thingy doesn't work, here are the permanent rivalries for each team; the only ones from Nerdlinger's I replaced were ones that were not currently being played annually. I also unnecessarily switched UVA-WF and VT-Lou, figuring Wake is VT's closest opponent and UVA-Lou have already begun an annual series.

Atlantic: Florida St (Clemson), Miami (Virginia Tech), & Boston College (Syracuse)
Coastal: Pittsburgh (Georgia Tech), Louisville (Virginia), & Syracuse (Boston College)
Pod A: Clemson (NC State, Florida St) & Georgia Tech (Duke, Pittsburgh)
Pod B: Virginia (UNC, Louisville) & Virginia Tech (Miami, Wake Forest)
Pod C: NC State (Clemson, UNC) & Wake Forest (Virginia Tech, Duke)
Pod D: Duke (Georgia Tech, Wake Forest) & UNC (Virginia, NC State)

Very cool! I think you need to swap the NC schools around though. How's this?

[Image: qlbStVU.png]

While it's nice and symmetric-looking, I'm not sure how well this fares schedule-wise. I tried to work it out but things got kind of messy. Basically, I think it needs to be symmetric horizontally as well as vertically, and I don't know if that would preserve the necessary rivalries.

I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea of anybody sitting in front of their computer and wasting time making that graphic for such a nonsensical concept.
07-20-2019 09:37 AM
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Crayton Offline
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Post: #143
RE: A Realignment Proposal for the ACC
Here is my best shot at 3-3-1. A noticeable improvement on the 3-4 rivalrywise.

North: BC(VT)-Syr(Clem)-Pitt(Lou)
South: FSU(Clem)-Mia(VT)-Lou(Pitt)
Atlantic: GT(Clem)-Duke(UNC)-WF(NCSt)
Coastal: UNC(Duke)-NCSt(WF)-UVA(VT)
Floating1: Clem(Syr,FSU,GT)
Floating2: VT(UVA,BC,Mia)

Fans of the Tigers and Hokies may not be keen on competing in the SouthAtlantic, SouthCoastal, NorthCoastal, and NorthAtlantic across 4 years.

The rivalries are comparable to 3-2-2, so maybe the 3-3-1 is preferable? You can do some work to add back NC State-Clemson too (no more VT-Mia).
(This post was last modified: 07-20-2019 12:26 PM by Crayton.)
07-20-2019 12:24 PM
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