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Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
The DCCC, unlike the RCCC, actually will get involved in primaries if they see a threat. For example, the DCCC felt that Lizzie Fletcher in TX07 was a stronger candidate than Moser. So they pumped money into Fletchers campaign.
11-12-2018 10:45 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 10:45 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The DCCC, unlike the RCCC, actually will get involved in primaries if they see a threat. For example, the DCCC felt that Lizzie Fletcher in TX07 was a stronger candidate than Moser. So they pumped money into Fletchers campaign.

And there is a lesson there for republicans.
11-12-2018 11:52 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
Thats part of the GOPs problem. The national party is playing tic tac toe while the Dems are playing smart. The GOP plan...let Trump take the wheel and hang on for the ride. At every turn in this cycle the Dems outrecruited, outraised, outmessaged, and outworked the GOP. All the GOP appeared to do was to scream MS13 call the Dems communists and fake news. It didnt work.

And it wont work in 2020 either. You need to pay attention to the news because they help you vet candidates. Youre not going to be able to tar Miss average Bland Democrat as some sort of Communist MS13 member easily, especially if shes outraising you by significant amounts. And even less so if your own candidate has more problems

By the way, another problem is that the GOPs staffing appears to be inept and unable to stay on message. To be fair, few want to work for Trump and his dominance of all things GOP makes message control impossible.

The GOP also is riven by massive intraparty squabbles and circular firing squads. The GOP will try to highlightany differences in the Dems from the primary. I dont think its going to work. No one on our side has much patience for infighting. The GOP relishes it
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 12:09 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-12-2018 11:59 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 11:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Thats part of the GOPs problem. The national party is playing tic tac toe while the Dems are playing smart. The GOP plan...let Trump take the wheel and hang on for the ride. At every turn in this cycle the Dems outrecruited, outraised, outmessaged, and outworked the GOP. All the GOP appeared to do was to scream MS13 call the Dems communists and fake news. It didnt work.
And it wont work in 2020 either. You need to pay attention to the news because they help you vet candidates. Youre not going to be able to tar Miss average Bland Democrat as some sort of Communist MS13 member easily, especially if shes outraising you by significant amounts. And even less so if your own candidate has more problems
By the way, another problem is that the GOPs staffing appears to be inept and unable to stay on message. To be fair, few want to work for Trump and his dominance of all things GOP makes message control impossible.
The GOP also is riven by massive intraparty squabbles and circular firing squads. The GOP will try to highlightany differences in the Dems from the primary. I dont think its going to work. No one on our side has much patience for infighting. The GOP relishes it

What you have outlined there is exactly why I refuse to be a republican. I'm actually a registered democrat right now (and there are damned few of us in Montgomery County). But I did that so I could vote for the least dangerous democrat in the primary in 2016.

Republicans need to learn from 1994. That was the only time that I can recall that they ever got on message and stayed on message, and it led to their biggest electoral victory ever. So they promptly forgot about it and went chasing after Monicagate.

Republicans are incredibly stupid politically. The media was ready to coronate Hillary back when the primaries started. So republicans arranged a bunch of early debates moderated by left-leaning media types. So what did they do? They saw Trump as a loose cannon who would initiate a bunch of what you call circular firing squads, so they set the "debates" up to degenerate to that instead of addressing issues. I recall a lot of commentary at the time about how the Hillary-Bernie debates focused on "issues" while the republican "debates" focused on personalities. That was contrived by the moderators, in order to make Hillary look good and republicans look bad, and hopefully to produce the weakest possible republican candidate, whom they obviously perceived to be Trump. Two things went wrong with that approach. One, Bernie turned out to have a lot more appeal than anyone expected, so they had to steal the nomination from him. Two, Trump turned out to be the one republican candidate who could beat Hillary.

I don't care for republican stupidity, and I sure don't want to live in a theocracy. But I don't fear republicans. I do fear democrats will lead us to socialism/communism, and for now the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But I wish my enemy didn't have such a stupid enemy.

I think republicans are stuck with Trump for 2020, and I think that means they will lose. Probably like McCain lost to Obama. That will create a very dangerous situation, but only for two years. If republicans get their act together, they could make 2022 another 1994, and if they keep their act together they could retake the white house in 2024. And I don't think the country can be completely destroyed in 2 or 4 years. Of course, I thought Trump in 2016 was a sure loss, and my only hope was that republicans would hold onto the senate to keep government divided. Now we will have two years divided a different way. It will be interesting. I hope democrats spend the whole two years trying to impeach Trump, while the republican senate keeps confirming conservative judges and justices.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 12:26 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
11-12-2018 12:23 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 12:23 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 11:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Thats part of the GOPs problem. The national party is playing tic tac toe while the Dems are playing smart. The GOP plan...let Trump take the wheel and hang on for the ride. At every turn in this cycle the Dems outrecruited, outraised, outmessaged, and outworked the GOP. All the GOP appeared to do was to scream MS13 call the Dems communists and fake news. It didnt work.
And it wont work in 2020 either. You need to pay attention to the news because they help you vet candidates. Youre not going to be able to tar Miss average Bland Democrat as some sort of Communist MS13 member easily, especially if shes outraising you by significant amounts. And even less so if your own candidate has more problems
By the way, another problem is that the GOPs staffing appears to be inept and unable to stay on message. To be fair, few want to work for Trump and his dominance of all things GOP makes message control impossible.
The GOP also is riven by massive intraparty squabbles and circular firing squads. The GOP will try to highlightany differences in the Dems from the primary. I dont think its going to work. No one on our side has much patience for infighting. The GOP relishes it

What you have outlined there is exactly why I refuse to be a republican. I'm actually a registered democrat right now (and there are damned few of us in Montgomery County). But I did that so I could vote for the least dangerous democrat in the primary in 2016.

Republicans need to learn from 1994. That was the only time that I can recall that they ever got on message and stayed on message, and it led to their biggest electoral victory ever. So they promptly forgot about it and went chasing after Monicagate.

Republicans are incredibly stupid politically. The media was ready to coronate Hillary back when the primaries started. So republicans arranged a bunch of early debates moderated by left-leaning media types. So what did they do? They saw Trump as a loose cannon who would initiate a bunch of what you call circular firing squads, so they set the "debates" up to degenerate to that instead of addressing issues. I recall a lot of commentary at the time about how the Hillary-Bernie debates focused on "issues" while the republican "debates" focused on personalities. That was contrived by the moderators, in order to make Hillary look good and republicans look bad, and hopefully to produce the weakest possible republican candidate, whom they obviously perceived to be Trump. Two things went wrong with that approach. One, Bernie turned out to have a lot more appeal than anyone expected, so they had to steal the nomination from him. Two, Trump turned out to be the one republican candidate who could beat Hillary.

I don't care for republican stupidity, and I sure don't want to live in a theocracy. But I don't fear republicans. I do fear democrats will lead us to socialism/communism, and for now the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But I wish my enemy didn't have such a stupid enemy.

I think republicans are stuck with Trump for 2020, and I think that means they will lose. Probably like McCain lost to Obama. That will create a very dangerous situation, but only for two years. If republicans get their act together, they could make 2022 another 1994, and if they keep their act together they could retake the white house in 2024. And I don't think the country can be completely destroyed in 2 or 4 years. Of course, I thought Trump in 2016 was a sure loss, and my only hope was that republicans would hold onto the senate to keep government divided. Now we will have two years divided a different way. It will be interesting. I hope democrats spend the whole two years trying to impeach Trump, while the republican senate keeps confirming conservative judges and justices.

The Dems will be investigating Trump, but they will be introducing five pieces of legislation to shore up Obamacare in January. Trump will be opposed to it.

The investigations need to happen, even though they will change few votes. My guess is the Dems will use some investigations to rattle Trump and force him into trying unconstitutional blocks in Congressional power. That will cause even more political damage than the actual investigation itself. And Trump wont be able to control himself.
11-12-2018 12:43 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:23 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 11:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Thats part of the GOPs problem. The national party is playing tic tac toe while the Dems are playing smart. The GOP plan...let Trump take the wheel and hang on for the ride. At every turn in this cycle the Dems outrecruited, outraised, outmessaged, and outworked the GOP. All the GOP appeared to do was to scream MS13 call the Dems communists and fake news. It didnt work.
And it wont work in 2020 either. You need to pay attention to the news because they help you vet candidates. Youre not going to be able to tar Miss average Bland Democrat as some sort of Communist MS13 member easily, especially if shes outraising you by significant amounts. And even less so if your own candidate has more problems
By the way, another problem is that the GOPs staffing appears to be inept and unable to stay on message. To be fair, few want to work for Trump and his dominance of all things GOP makes message control impossible.
The GOP also is riven by massive intraparty squabbles and circular firing squads. The GOP will try to highlightany differences in the Dems from the primary. I dont think its going to work. No one on our side has much patience for infighting. The GOP relishes it

What you have outlined there is exactly why I refuse to be a republican. I'm actually a registered democrat right now (and there are damned few of us in Montgomery County). But I did that so I could vote for the least dangerous democrat in the primary in 2016.

Republicans need to learn from 1994. That was the only time that I can recall that they ever got on message and stayed on message, and it led to their biggest electoral victory ever. So they promptly forgot about it and went chasing after Monicagate.

Republicans are incredibly stupid politically. The media was ready to coronate Hillary back when the primaries started. So republicans arranged a bunch of early debates moderated by left-leaning media types. So what did they do? They saw Trump as a loose cannon who would initiate a bunch of what you call circular firing squads, so they set the "debates" up to degenerate to that instead of addressing issues. I recall a lot of commentary at the time about how the Hillary-Bernie debates focused on "issues" while the republican "debates" focused on personalities. That was contrived by the moderators, in order to make Hillary look good and republicans look bad, and hopefully to produce the weakest possible republican candidate, whom they obviously perceived to be Trump. Two things went wrong with that approach. One, Bernie turned out to have a lot more appeal than anyone expected, so they had to steal the nomination from him. Two, Trump turned out to be the one republican candidate who could beat Hillary.

I don't care for republican stupidity, and I sure don't want to live in a theocracy. But I don't fear republicans. I do fear democrats will lead us to socialism/communism, and for now the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But I wish my enemy didn't have such a stupid enemy.

I think republicans are stuck with Trump for 2020, and I think that means they will lose. Probably like McCain lost to Obama. That will create a very dangerous situation, but only for two years. If republicans get their act together, they could make 2022 another 1994, and if they keep their act together they could retake the white house in 2024. And I don't think the country can be completely destroyed in 2 or 4 years. Of course, I thought Trump in 2016 was a sure loss, and my only hope was that republicans would hold onto the senate to keep government divided. Now we will have two years divided a different way. It will be interesting. I hope democrats spend the whole two years trying to impeach Trump, while the republican senate keeps confirming conservative judges and justices.

The Dems will be investigating Trump, but they will be introducing five pieces of legislation to shore up Obamacare in January. Trump will be opposed to it.

The investigations need to happen, even though they will change few votes. My guess is the Dems will use some investigations to rattle Trump and force him into trying unconstitutional blocks in Congressional power. That will cause even more political damage than the actual investigation itself. And Trump wont be able to control himself.

This is why I loath the Dems and politics in general. Team over country. Dems don't GAF about investigations - just trying to score political points is the goal here.
11-12-2018 12:52 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 12:52 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:23 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 11:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Thats part of the GOPs problem. The national party is playing tic tac toe while the Dems are playing smart. The GOP plan...let Trump take the wheel and hang on for the ride. At every turn in this cycle the Dems outrecruited, outraised, outmessaged, and outworked the GOP. All the GOP appeared to do was to scream MS13 call the Dems communists and fake news. It didnt work.
And it wont work in 2020 either. You need to pay attention to the news because they help you vet candidates. Youre not going to be able to tar Miss average Bland Democrat as some sort of Communist MS13 member easily, especially if shes outraising you by significant amounts. And even less so if your own candidate has more problems
By the way, another problem is that the GOPs staffing appears to be inept and unable to stay on message. To be fair, few want to work for Trump and his dominance of all things GOP makes message control impossible.
The GOP also is riven by massive intraparty squabbles and circular firing squads. The GOP will try to highlightany differences in the Dems from the primary. I dont think its going to work. No one on our side has much patience for infighting. The GOP relishes it

What you have outlined there is exactly why I refuse to be a republican. I'm actually a registered democrat right now (and there are damned few of us in Montgomery County). But I did that so I could vote for the least dangerous democrat in the primary in 2016.

Republicans need to learn from 1994. That was the only time that I can recall that they ever got on message and stayed on message, and it led to their biggest electoral victory ever. So they promptly forgot about it and went chasing after Monicagate.

Republicans are incredibly stupid politically. The media was ready to coronate Hillary back when the primaries started. So republicans arranged a bunch of early debates moderated by left-leaning media types. So what did they do? They saw Trump as a loose cannon who would initiate a bunch of what you call circular firing squads, so they set the "debates" up to degenerate to that instead of addressing issues. I recall a lot of commentary at the time about how the Hillary-Bernie debates focused on "issues" while the republican "debates" focused on personalities. That was contrived by the moderators, in order to make Hillary look good and republicans look bad, and hopefully to produce the weakest possible republican candidate, whom they obviously perceived to be Trump. Two things went wrong with that approach. One, Bernie turned out to have a lot more appeal than anyone expected, so they had to steal the nomination from him. Two, Trump turned out to be the one republican candidate who could beat Hillary.

I don't care for republican stupidity, and I sure don't want to live in a theocracy. But I don't fear republicans. I do fear democrats will lead us to socialism/communism, and for now the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But I wish my enemy didn't have such a stupid enemy.

I think republicans are stuck with Trump for 2020, and I think that means they will lose. Probably like McCain lost to Obama. That will create a very dangerous situation, but only for two years. If republicans get their act together, they could make 2022 another 1994, and if they keep their act together they could retake the white house in 2024. And I don't think the country can be completely destroyed in 2 or 4 years. Of course, I thought Trump in 2016 was a sure loss, and my only hope was that republicans would hold onto the senate to keep government divided. Now we will have two years divided a different way. It will be interesting. I hope democrats spend the whole two years trying to impeach Trump, while the republican senate keeps confirming conservative judges and justices.

The Dems will be investigating Trump, but they will be introducing five pieces of legislation to shore up Obamacare in January. Trump will be opposed to it.

The investigations need to happen, even though they will change few votes. My guess is the Dems will use some investigations to rattle Trump and force him into trying unconstitutional blocks in Congressional power. That will cause even more political damage than the actual investigation itself. And Trump wont be able to control himself.

This is why I loath the Dems and politics in general. Team over country. Dems don't GAF about investigations - just trying to score political points is the goal here.

Dont get us wrong. We do care about the investigations. But from a political standpoint, the investigations arent going to hurt the Dems. Because our leadership will be disciplined enough to do other things too. Yes, if you can bait Trump into making stupid political mistakes, its fair to do so. And the list of targets are going to be endless. The Dems do care about transparency and will approach the investigations carefully.
11-12-2018 12:58 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 12:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:52 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:23 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 11:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Thats part of the GOPs problem. The national party is playing tic tac toe while the Dems are playing smart. The GOP plan...let Trump take the wheel and hang on for the ride. At every turn in this cycle the Dems outrecruited, outraised, outmessaged, and outworked the GOP. All the GOP appeared to do was to scream MS13 call the Dems communists and fake news. It didnt work.
And it wont work in 2020 either. You need to pay attention to the news because they help you vet candidates. Youre not going to be able to tar Miss average Bland Democrat as some sort of Communist MS13 member easily, especially if shes outraising you by significant amounts. And even less so if your own candidate has more problems
By the way, another problem is that the GOPs staffing appears to be inept and unable to stay on message. To be fair, few want to work for Trump and his dominance of all things GOP makes message control impossible.
The GOP also is riven by massive intraparty squabbles and circular firing squads. The GOP will try to highlightany differences in the Dems from the primary. I dont think its going to work. No one on our side has much patience for infighting. The GOP relishes it

What you have outlined there is exactly why I refuse to be a republican. I'm actually a registered democrat right now (and there are damned few of us in Montgomery County). But I did that so I could vote for the least dangerous democrat in the primary in 2016.

Republicans need to learn from 1994. That was the only time that I can recall that they ever got on message and stayed on message, and it led to their biggest electoral victory ever. So they promptly forgot about it and went chasing after Monicagate.

Republicans are incredibly stupid politically. The media was ready to coronate Hillary back when the primaries started. So republicans arranged a bunch of early debates moderated by left-leaning media types. So what did they do? They saw Trump as a loose cannon who would initiate a bunch of what you call circular firing squads, so they set the "debates" up to degenerate to that instead of addressing issues. I recall a lot of commentary at the time about how the Hillary-Bernie debates focused on "issues" while the republican "debates" focused on personalities. That was contrived by the moderators, in order to make Hillary look good and republicans look bad, and hopefully to produce the weakest possible republican candidate, whom they obviously perceived to be Trump. Two things went wrong with that approach. One, Bernie turned out to have a lot more appeal than anyone expected, so they had to steal the nomination from him. Two, Trump turned out to be the one republican candidate who could beat Hillary.

I don't care for republican stupidity, and I sure don't want to live in a theocracy. But I don't fear republicans. I do fear democrats will lead us to socialism/communism, and for now the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But I wish my enemy didn't have such a stupid enemy.

I think republicans are stuck with Trump for 2020, and I think that means they will lose. Probably like McCain lost to Obama. That will create a very dangerous situation, but only for two years. If republicans get their act together, they could make 2022 another 1994, and if they keep their act together they could retake the white house in 2024. And I don't think the country can be completely destroyed in 2 or 4 years. Of course, I thought Trump in 2016 was a sure loss, and my only hope was that republicans would hold onto the senate to keep government divided. Now we will have two years divided a different way. It will be interesting. I hope democrats spend the whole two years trying to impeach Trump, while the republican senate keeps confirming conservative judges and justices.

The Dems will be investigating Trump, but they will be introducing five pieces of legislation to shore up Obamacare in January. Trump will be opposed to it.

The investigations need to happen, even though they will change few votes. My guess is the Dems will use some investigations to rattle Trump and force him into trying unconstitutional blocks in Congressional power. That will cause even more political damage than the actual investigation itself. And Trump wont be able to control himself.

This is why I loath the Dems and politics in general. Team over country. Dems don't GAF about investigations - just trying to score political points is the goal here.

Dont get us wrong. We do care about the investigations. But from a political standpoint, the investigations arent going to hurt the Dems. Because our leadership will be disciplined enough to do other things too. Yes, if you can bait Trump into making stupid political mistakes, its fair to do so. And the list of targets are going to be endless. The Dems do care about transparency and will approach the investigations carefully.

Your group is married to identity politics. Because of that, this approach will be impossible for the Dems to pull off.
11-12-2018 01:02 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 01:02 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:52 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:23 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  What you have outlined there is exactly why I refuse to be a republican. I'm actually a registered democrat right now (and there are damned few of us in Montgomery County). But I did that so I could vote for the least dangerous democrat in the primary in 2016.

Republicans need to learn from 1994. That was the only time that I can recall that they ever got on message and stayed on message, and it led to their biggest electoral victory ever. So they promptly forgot about it and went chasing after Monicagate.

Republicans are incredibly stupid politically. The media was ready to coronate Hillary back when the primaries started. So republicans arranged a bunch of early debates moderated by left-leaning media types. So what did they do? They saw Trump as a loose cannon who would initiate a bunch of what you call circular firing squads, so they set the "debates" up to degenerate to that instead of addressing issues. I recall a lot of commentary at the time about how the Hillary-Bernie debates focused on "issues" while the republican "debates" focused on personalities. That was contrived by the moderators, in order to make Hillary look good and republicans look bad, and hopefully to produce the weakest possible republican candidate, whom they obviously perceived to be Trump. Two things went wrong with that approach. One, Bernie turned out to have a lot more appeal than anyone expected, so they had to steal the nomination from him. Two, Trump turned out to be the one republican candidate who could beat Hillary.

I don't care for republican stupidity, and I sure don't want to live in a theocracy. But I don't fear republicans. I do fear democrats will lead us to socialism/communism, and for now the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But I wish my enemy didn't have such a stupid enemy.

I think republicans are stuck with Trump for 2020, and I think that means they will lose. Probably like McCain lost to Obama. That will create a very dangerous situation, but only for two years. If republicans get their act together, they could make 2022 another 1994, and if they keep their act together they could retake the white house in 2024. And I don't think the country can be completely destroyed in 2 or 4 years. Of course, I thought Trump in 2016 was a sure loss, and my only hope was that republicans would hold onto the senate to keep government divided. Now we will have two years divided a different way. It will be interesting. I hope democrats spend the whole two years trying to impeach Trump, while the republican senate keeps confirming conservative judges and justices.

The Dems will be investigating Trump, but they will be introducing five pieces of legislation to shore up Obamacare in January. Trump will be opposed to it.

The investigations need to happen, even though they will change few votes. My guess is the Dems will use some investigations to rattle Trump and force him into trying unconstitutional blocks in Congressional power. That will cause even more political damage than the actual investigation itself. And Trump wont be able to control himself.

This is why I loath the Dems and politics in general. Team over country. Dems don't GAF about investigations - just trying to score political points is the goal here.

Dont get us wrong. We do care about the investigations. But from a political standpoint, the investigations arent going to hurt the Dems. Because our leadership will be disciplined enough to do other things too. Yes, if you can bait Trump into making stupid political mistakes, its fair to do so. And the list of targets are going to be endless. The Dems do care about transparency and will approach the investigations carefully.

Your group is married to identity politics. Because of that, this approach will be impossible for the Dems to pull off.

We will see. You wont like the result, but youre not a reachable voter for the Dems. Basically, the Dems did change their game in 2018. No more of "lets try to convert the unconvertable". Just get your base out. Thats going to produce a far more liberal Democratic party. You matter as much to the Dems as I do to the Republicans now. And in a base turnout model, the Dems have a decided advantage going forward so long as the GOPs message and policies are what they are.
11-12-2018 01:17 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 01:17 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 01:02 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:58 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:52 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 12:43 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  The Dems will be investigating Trump, but they will be introducing five pieces of legislation to shore up Obamacare in January. Trump will be opposed to it.

The investigations need to happen, even though they will change few votes. My guess is the Dems will use some investigations to rattle Trump and force him into trying unconstitutional blocks in Congressional power. That will cause even more political damage than the actual investigation itself. And Trump wont be able to control himself.

This is why I loath the Dems and politics in general. Team over country. Dems don't GAF about investigations - just trying to score political points is the goal here.

Dont get us wrong. We do care about the investigations. But from a political standpoint, the investigations arent going to hurt the Dems. Because our leadership will be disciplined enough to do other things too. Yes, if you can bait Trump into making stupid political mistakes, its fair to do so. And the list of targets are going to be endless. The Dems do care about transparency and will approach the investigations carefully.

Your group is married to identity politics. Because of that, this approach will be impossible for the Dems to pull off.

We will see. You wont like the result, but youre not a reachable voter for the Dems. Basically, the Dems did change their game in 2018. No more of "lets try to convert the unconvertable". Just get your base out. Thats going to produce a far more liberal Democratic party. You matter as much to the Dems as I do to the Republicans now. And in a base turnout model, the Dems have a decided advantage going forward so long as the GOPs message and policies are what they are.

How is that different from any other election??? I do agree with you that the Dems are no longer trying to sell their message to a broader audience. The Dems had no message during the 2018 midterms - aside from one accusing the GOP of trying to remove the preexisting conditions allowance to secure health insurance. This is analogous to yelling "the GOP is trying to take your social security away!". In reality, it wasn't an issue. I think you'll ultimately be disappointed in the end if the Dems continue this approach of using identity politics almost exclusively as their justification for being elected to office. Besides, a number of Dems who did win House seats were not your typical progressives - they were centrists. When the smoke clears, the issues are going to be what ultimately will win in the long run - and those issues are going to be predominantly centrist in nature.

If your view is accurate and this country continues to lurch leftward in the coming years, then it will be the end of the U.S. A continued and sustained leftward move based on the politics of Gillum, Ocassio-Cortez, Waters, Sanders, Booker, Schumer and Pelosi among others will destroy the country.
11-12-2018 01:47 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
Im fine with Democratic Centrists.
11-12-2018 01:57 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 01:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Im fine with Democratic Centrists.

They're an endangered species... If the most recent centrists who won in 2018 aren't allowed to stay centrist - and rubber stamp what the progressive leadership wants - then they won't survive long.
11-12-2018 02:04 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 01:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Im fine with Democratic Centrists.

I might be too--if there were any.

Other than Joe Manchin, who would you have in mind?
11-12-2018 02:04 PM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 12:23 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 11:59 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Thats part of the GOPs problem. The national party is playing tic tac toe while the Dems are playing smart. The GOP plan...let Trump take the wheel and hang on for the ride. At every turn in this cycle the Dems outrecruited, outraised, outmessaged, and outworked the GOP. All the GOP appeared to do was to scream MS13 call the Dems communists and fake news. It didnt work.
And it wont work in 2020 either. You need to pay attention to the news because they help you vet candidates. You're not going to be able to tar Miss average Bland Democrat as some sort of Communist MS13 member easily, especially if shes outraising you by significant amounts. And even less so if your own candidate has more problems
By the way, another problem is that the GOPs staffing appears to be inept and unable to stay on message. To be fair, few want to work for Trump and his dominance of all things GOP makes message control impossible.
The GOP also is riven by massive intraparty squabbles and circular firing squads. The GOP will try to highlightany differences in the Dems from the primary. I dont think its going to work. No one on our side has much patience for infighting. The GOP relishes it

What you have outlined there is exactly why I refuse to be a republican. I'm actually a registered democrat right now (and there are damned few of us in Montgomery County). But I did that so I could vote for the least dangerous democrat in the primary in 2016.

Republicans need to learn from 1994. That was the only time that I can recall that they ever got on message and stayed on message, and it led to their biggest electoral victory ever. So they promptly forgot about it and went chasing after Monicagate.

Republicans are incredibly stupid politically. The media was ready to coronate Hillary back when the primaries started. So republicans arranged a bunch of early debates moderated by left-leaning media types. So what did they do? They saw Trump as a loose cannon who would initiate a bunch of what you call circular firing squads, so they set the "debates" up to degenerate to that instead of addressing issues. I recall a lot of commentary at the time about how the Hillary-Bernie debates focused on "issues" while the republican "debates" focused on personalities. That was contrived by the moderators, in order to make Hillary look good and republicans look bad, and hopefully to produce the weakest possible republican candidate, whom they obviously perceived to be Trump. Two things went wrong with that approach. One, Bernie turned out to have a lot more appeal than anyone expected, so they had to steal the nomination from him. Two, Trump turned out to be the one republican candidate who could beat Hillary.

I don't care for republican stupidity, and I sure don't want to live in a theocracy. But I don't fear republicans. I do fear democrats will lead us to socialism/communism, and for now the enemy of my enemy is my friend. But I wish my enemy didn't have such a stupid enemy.

I think republicans are stuck with Trump for 2020, and I think that means they will lose. Probably like McCain lost to Obama. That will create a very dangerous situation, but only for two years. If republicans get their act together, they could make 2022 another 1994, and if they keep their act together they could retake the white house in 2024. And I don't think the country can be completely destroyed in 2 or 4 years. Of course, I thought Trump in 2016 was a sure loss, and my only hope was that republicans would hold onto the senate to keep government divided. Now we will have two years divided a different way. It will be interesting. I hope democrats spend the whole two years trying to impeach Trump, while the republican senate keeps confirming conservative judges and justices.

What a bunch of maroons you guys are. The Republicans aren't stupid, they are too egotistical to get on the same page. The Democrats are not unified, they've merely concentrated their radicalism and alienated away those within their own party with whom there may have been disputes.

I look at the Democratic party and I see Stalin getting rid of Trotsky. I don't seen any damned unity there at all. I look at the Republicans and I see factions. Those called never Trumpers (remnants of the Bush administration, corporate banking interests, and some moderates) and I see the Brits circa 1936 supporting Chamberlain's "peace for our time". Trump is not Churchill. He is Toto from the Wizard of Oz pulling back the curtain on government to reveal the little man behind the curtain pulling the levers to create the Great and Powerful Oz and to expose him for the fraud that he is.

Toto essentially shows Dorothy that she, all by herself, must destroy the Wicked Witch of the West (Hillary and what she stands for). The Scarecrow, Cowardly Lion, and the Tin Man represent average Americans who gain courage when one their own (Dorothy) with hope and determination takes her down.

The blue faced flying monkeys represent the violent minions of the Witch (ANTIFA), but her guards represent those who were too afraid to oppose her and who eventually celebrate Dorothy's victory. Believe me these are moderate Democrats in every state who feel abandoned by the direction of their party and who voted for Trump in the last Presidential election.

So 3DateOwl while I agree that the Republicans aren't unified, the never Trumpers are simply the aristocratic wing of the party so concerned with their own self interests and power they would rather see America burn than relinquish any of it. They've developed global relations and refuse to see the issues in China, Russia, and even supposed friends in Europe as the growing threat which that they are. For them diplomacy furthers the riches of their family enterprises (Bush) and corporations (Banks). Those are the ones who really fueled Tom's so called smart unity in the Democratic party because they look like the Tsars to Tom's Bolsheviks.

The Danger in this case is in the Corporate backing the Bolsheviks are getting from those corporate entities who think they are taking the better road to keep globalism growing their ledger balances. Unlike the Bush Tsarists they think the Dems will keep "Peace for our Time." It won't. It will actually sew the seeds for the destruction of the very foundation of their corporate life. Elect a Bolshevik and the state will run business. Elect a Bushy and the Oligarchs will run business.

Trump will never be a dictator because he can only have 8 years. He doesn't want to be a dictator anyway. He wants the American people to wake up and identify the frauds and enemies and he has a very bombastic way of going about it.

The American Middle Class is what has to wake up before the Witch kills us to steal our Ruby Slippers that allow us to go back to that place where we all feel "there's no place like home" which is what Americans need most to do before our Republic is gone. It was a place where our differences were tolerated out of love and respect of neighbor, and where communities safeguarded themselves, and everyone knew the whiners and bitchers who provided nothing for the common good.

And just to complete the mental picture for you there is little difference between the Wicked Witch of the West (Hillary) and Ms. Gulch (the Bushy Republicans).

As long as our future is defined between the Bush's and the Clinton's we are screwed! We live in a different world with a variety of foes internal and external and both of those forces cooperate with our external enemies and unfortunately are complicit with our internal enemies as well.

Trump doesn't have all of the answers but at least he knows where a few of the problems are and isn't afraid to talk about them. I say let Toto continue to pull those curtains back and then maybe all of Normal America can throw some water on the Witches and clean house with their broomsticks.

By the way wasn't that his message, "Drain the Swamp"?

Tom's unified Democrats will lead to a civil war. 3DateOwl's Republican party only seems stupid because it isn't unified around the never Trumpers world view which led to nothing but the empowering of the Oligarchs. Both of those options need to be removed from the table.

This country is a Republic. Republics rule by compromise and consensus. They do not rule by majority. That way everyone's rights are ensured all of the time.

To cop another old movie analogy I see Trump and Reagan and to a certain extent Carter, as what the little Mexican Village said of the Magnificent 7, "they are like the wind that came to sweep the locusts away" in the end they will be gone, and the farmers will remain.

That's the day of common sense that I am counting upon. America has only forgotten what made us great and it was strong, common sense run, local government. Both the Bushes and Clinton's were for stronger central (Federal) control of our lives. The far left and the far right, can't rule for long without more central control.

All of those who want the politics of division or privilege can piss off, and bug out. They are the real enemy.

And by the way, Dorothy dreamed about what was over the Rainbow, and when she got there she discovered just how much better she had it back where she came from. I'll be glad when this generation learns that lesson as well.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 03:20 PM by JRsec.)
11-12-2018 02:48 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 02:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 01:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Im fine with Democratic Centrists.

I might be too--if there were any.

Other than Joe Manchin, who would you have in mind?

Democratic CENTRISTS, not Democratic Conservatives. People like Hickenlooper and John Tester, not Manchin.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 02:49 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-12-2018 02:49 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
Easy there, Trump never tried consensus and the GOP has stopped even attempting to reach voters outside of their base. What happened in 2018, and what will probably happen in 2020 is precisely what occurs when you never had a mandate or even a majority and you act like you do.

Those who dont like globalism made a HUGE mistake with Trump and Putin. Both of them are oligarchs and plutocrats on steroids. Both of them simply repell the majority. And its going to likely set back Conservative anti globalism decades. A non corrupt, somewhat consensus building champion could have gone a long way towards advancing your cause. But yall went with a racist homophobe and doubled down on placating the only parts of your base that arent growing. Yes, you owned the libs and globalists....for a hot minute. Now it may be ending. And in a way that may leave your movement very discredited. Instead of anti globalism, you guys went for retweeting Infowars.

I suppose you could try to start a civil war for white nationalism and Pat Robertson level theocracy, or try to institue a dictatorship, but thats not going to happen.

The UK anti globalist rise has stopped. The UK may still leave the EU, but will be as liberal as Canada. Merkel isnt being replaced with AfD. Your champion in Poland and Hungary are finding that a weaker EU is paradoxically less interested in tolreating their anti Democratic bull****. Italys government will collapse. Le Pen aint gonna win in France.

There will be movement both ways...Brazil went fascist for example. But expect the big prize to move away from yall in 2 years.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 03:22 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
11-12-2018 02:52 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Interesting (and Effective) plan from the left
(11-12-2018 02:49 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 02:04 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  
(11-12-2018 01:57 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Im fine with Democratic Centrists.
I might be too--if there were any.
Other than Joe Manchin, who would you have in mind?
Democratic CENTRISTS, not Democratic Conservatives. People like Hickenlooper and John Tester, not Manchin.

They are nowhere near the center. The center is Joe Manchin, Susan Collins, and not much of anyone else. Used to be lots of folks there, but both sides have pretty much abandoned it.

Conservative democrats are in the center, just like liberal republicans. The democrat center is pretty far left these days.
(This post was last modified: 11-12-2018 02:56 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
11-12-2018 02:55 PM
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