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Craft beer industry in trouble?
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VA49er Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 09:37 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 09:27 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
Quote:Total Wine. They moved our Total Wine to a very inconvenient and congested location in the suburban concrete jungle so that doesn't happen much.

Same think by me here in Minnesota. I am genuinely curious as to their real estate model.

I'm sure their sales are up at their new location. Just for me personally, it went from 15 minutes in and out roundtrip in an older shopping center to an hour long ordeal into a newer "mix-use" strip mall a bit further away and adjacent to WalMart, Sam's, Lowes, Trader Joe's, Kohls, the mall and every other store and chain restaurant that attracts the masses within 1/4 mile.

Well, the bold is the reason for the new location. In my neck of the woods the county is moving west so it's natural for locations to pack up and move to be closer to the growing population center. I have an older TWine that is about 5 miles east from me. A new TWine opened 4 miles to the west not that long ago. The stores are less than 10 miles apart. I was waiting for the older one to close down, but apparently it's staying open. I guess the two stores even though they are close in proximity attack different customers justifying both locations.
11-09-2018 09:46 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 09:46 AM)VA49er Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 09:37 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 09:27 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  
Quote:Total Wine. They moved our Total Wine to a very inconvenient and congested location in the suburban concrete jungle so that doesn't happen much.

Same think by me here in Minnesota. I am genuinely curious as to their real estate model.

I'm sure their sales are up at their new location. Just for me personally, it went from 15 minutes in and out roundtrip in an older shopping center to an hour long ordeal into a newer "mix-use" strip mall a bit further away and adjacent to WalMart, Sam's, Lowes, Trader Joe's, Kohls, the mall and every other store and chain restaurant that attracts the masses within 1/4 mile.

Well, the bold is the reason for the new location. In my neck of the woods the county is moving west so it's natural for locations to pack up and move to be closer to the growing population center. I have an older TWine that is about 5 miles east from me. A new TWine opened 4 miles to the west not that long ago. The stores are less than 10 miles apart. I was waiting for the older one to close down, but apparently it's staying open. I guess the two stores even though they are close in proximity attack different customers justifying both locations.

As I said, I am sure their sales are up. Just sucks for me. I avoid that area like the plague.
11-09-2018 10:22 AM
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gdunn Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 08:36 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Craft beer priced itself right out of my fridge.

Currently going through a case of Leinenkugel's Original. Just perfect. Also started a six pack of Rolling Rock to re-live my HS glory days.

At the beach a couple weeks ago and Yeungling has put out their first new non seasonal beer in quite some time called Golden Pilsner. Quite tasty.
11-09-2018 10:38 AM
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fsquid Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 08:50 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 08:40 AM)fsquid Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 07:22 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Sorry. Craft beer is ok. I have issues paying $12 for a sixer.
There you go. I go to taprooms and support the local guys, but i rarely pick up a six pack at the store.

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I have 3 kids so I usually go the store route, but unless we are having a fire pit, a 6-pack usually gets me a week so whether it is $4, $12, or $20 is inconsequential. In fact, I have no problem spending over $20 for a create your own 6-pack filled with Belgian imports at Total Wine. They moved our Total Wine to a very inconvenient and congested location in the suburban concrete jungle so that doesn't happen much. 5-10 years ago the price would have been an issue, but I don't drink much anymore and when I do, it is usually a single beer or glass of Bourbon between the time the kids go to bed and the time I go to bed.

My kids have been enough breweries that they can probably get a degree in it. The ones here are very kid friendly with games and TVs. Usually with a food truck parked outside.
11-09-2018 11:25 AM
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Brookes Owl Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 08:37 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  I like craft beer, but I don't need to go to a bar, restaurant, or grocery store and have a choice of 40 different IPAs that all taste the same. In fact, I've been IPA'ed out for several years. Whenever I see a Bourbon Barrel (rare), Belgian Tripel (extremely rare) or anything else different, that is what I buy. The article mentions Lagunitas. My grocery store carries 4 of their beers... all IPAs with little difference in any of them... and I can never find their Brown Sugga ale... the one non-IPA they make.. anywhere. And I don't want watermelon, pineapple, or pumpkin flavors in my beer either, which is the other type of crap that makes the shelves aside from the IPAs.

Yep. Nothing wrong with the craft beer industry that a little contraction won't fix.
11-09-2018 12:53 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 12:04 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The big "craft" beer makers are barely craft. Places like Breckenridge churn out hundreds of thousands of gallons worth. Breckenridge has a distribution partnership with AB. There are good craft beers, for sure. You will however pay more for them due to economies of scale. And you won't be able to find them very far away from where they were brewed. True craft beer is Highland and Green Man and all those other hippie operations in Asheville.

Sorta OT but have you been to Pour Taproom in Greenville? We went last week and it's a pretty cool deal. Large selection and you pay by the ounce via a wristband. No food but you can order from the Mexican place next door and they'll bring it over. It was pretty good too.
11-09-2018 01:49 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 01:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 12:04 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The big "craft" beer makers are barely craft. Places like Breckenridge churn out hundreds of thousands of gallons worth. Breckenridge has a distribution partnership with AB. There are good craft beers, for sure. You will however pay more for them due to economies of scale. And you won't be able to find them very far away from where they were brewed. True craft beer is Highland and Green Man and all those other hippie operations in Asheville.

Sorta OT but have you been to Pour Taproom in Greenville? We went last week and it's a pretty cool deal. Large selection and you pay by the ounce via a wristband. No food but you can order from the Mexican place next door and they'll bring it over. It was pretty good too.
Negative. How would it compare to the Flying Saucer in Cola? That's sort of my gold standard for beer variety. A little pricey but you're getting it on tap. And there's more than a hundred taps.

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11-09-2018 01:54 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 01:54 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 01:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 12:04 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The big "craft" beer makers are barely craft. Places like Breckenridge churn out hundreds of thousands of gallons worth. Breckenridge has a distribution partnership with AB. There are good craft beers, for sure. You will however pay more for them due to economies of scale. And you won't be able to find them very far away from where they were brewed. True craft beer is Highland and Green Man and all those other hippie operations in Asheville.

Sorta OT but have you been to Pour Taproom in Greenville? We went last week and it's a pretty cool deal. Large selection and you pay by the ounce via a wristband. No food but you can order from the Mexican place next door and they'll bring it over. It was pretty good too.
Negative. How would it compare to the Flying Saucer in Cola? That's sort of my gold standard for beer variety. A little pricey but you're getting it on tap. And there's more than a hundred taps.

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I haven't been to the Flying Saucer yet. Last time we were in Columbia we were going to try it but it was absolutely packed after a coot baseball game so we skipped it.

They had a really good variety of stuff,and even a wine selection if someone in your group wasn't a beer drinker.
11-09-2018 03:28 PM
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ECUGrad07 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 09:40 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  My city of 60,000 has at a minimum 10 craft breweries. At some point the market was going to get too saturated...

Also, fun fact, the founder of Total Wine will be my representative in Congress next year.

My city has around 90,000 people and a staggering 30 breweries.

Hence the nickname "Beer City"... as a craft beer person, I absolutely love it.

The local liberal loonies are constantly trying to block more breweries from opening... I don't get it, honestly. Tourism is Asheville's #1 thing going for it... so, they'd be hurting themselves.

[Image: 13321925_1068745459885686_1262513388485850340_n.jpg]
11-09-2018 04:08 PM
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Post: #30
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 03:28 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 01:54 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 01:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 12:04 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The big "craft" beer makers are barely craft. Places like Breckenridge churn out hundreds of thousands of gallons worth. Breckenridge has a distribution partnership with AB. There are good craft beers, for sure. You will however pay more for them due to economies of scale. And you won't be able to find them very far away from where they were brewed. True craft beer is Highland and Green Man and all those other hippie operations in Asheville.

Sorta OT but have you been to Pour Taproom in Greenville? We went last week and it's a pretty cool deal. Large selection and you pay by the ounce via a wristband. No food but you can order from the Mexican place next door and they'll bring it over. It was pretty good too.
Negative. How would it compare to the Flying Saucer in Cola? That's sort of my gold standard for beer variety. A little pricey but you're getting it on tap. And there's more than a hundred taps.

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I haven't been to the Flying Saucer yet. Last time we were in Columbia we were going to try it but it was absolutely packed after a coot baseball game so we skipped it.

They had a really good variety of stuff,and even a wine selection if someone in your group wasn't a beer drinker.

I went to the one in Raleigh after the ODU/NCST game several years back. Was not overly impressed. High prices, mediocre food, and snotty attitudes. But I don't like upscale unless I am taking my wife to an anniversary dinner, especially in a dumpy environment like downtown Raleigh. I'd rather have troll food, pool, and darts and not feel out of place in a tee and jeans after a football game. Selection was solid. Reminded me of a smaller version of Capital Alehouse in Richmond.
11-09-2018 04:19 PM
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Niner National Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 01:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 12:04 AM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  The big "craft" beer makers are barely craft. Places like Breckenridge churn out hundreds of thousands of gallons worth. Breckenridge has a distribution partnership with AB. There are good craft beers, for sure. You will however pay more for them due to economies of scale. And you won't be able to find them very far away from where they were brewed. True craft beer is Highland and Green Man and all those other hippie operations in Asheville.

Sorta OT but have you been to Pour Taproom in Greenville? We went last week and it's a pretty cool deal. Large selection and you pay by the ounce via a wristband. No food but you can order from the Mexican place next door and they'll bring it over. It was pretty good too.
They just opened their biggest location a half mile from my house. I like the concept but too many of their beers are ipas, sours, and ciders. I like a good sour beer but i dont need 20 varieties. Same goes for cider.

GTS, it is similar in selection to flying saucer but it is self serve.
11-09-2018 04:28 PM
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Post: #32
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
I got into home brewing a few years ago and several of the batches I made were better than 90% of the commercial crafts out there. The problem with home brewing is what to do with so much beer. I had a damn closet with about 10 cases and 6 or 7 mini kegs full of the stuff. I also gained about 25 pounds from drinking so much of it. I made a wheat beer in which I used magnolia petals in the wort. You could smell the floral bouquet in it...delicious. Id love to get back into it again with a group of guys and split up the product each time.
11-09-2018 04:35 PM
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Post: #33
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 04:08 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 09:40 AM)BobcatEngineer Wrote:  My city of 60,000 has at a minimum 10 craft breweries. At some point the market was going to get too saturated...

Also, fun fact, the founder of Total Wine will be my representative in Congress next year.

My city has around 90,000 people and a staggering 30 breweries.

Hence the nickname "Beer City"... as a craft beer person, I absolutely love it.

The local liberal loonies are constantly trying to block more breweries from opening... I don't get it, honestly. Tourism is Asheville's #1 thing going for it... so, they'd be hurting themselves.

[Image: 13321925_1068745459885686_1262513388485850340_n.jpg]

Asheville's definitely on my list of places to visit in the near future. In my opinion, folks down there should be able to open as many breweries as they want as long as the demand is there.

I live in Frederick, MD where they make Flying Dog. I do have qualms with the Dems in my state regarding laws on breweries. For instance...

-Breweries cannot stay open any later than 10 pm
-They are limited to selling a certain amount of beer per day. Past the limit, they must sell their beer to a distributor and then buy it back from them in order to continue sales for the day
-They cannot cook food in the same facility as where they produce the beer (which incidentally created a thriving food truck industry in town)

Flying Dog wanted to expand to a new location in town and increase their production 8-fold which would add another 100-150 jobs. They also wanted to build a band shell on the property they bought and create a new mini-entertainment district in town. But the above laws kind of made their dream very difficult to accomplish. Who wants to attend a live music concert when they have to shut down beer sales at 9:45??

I think they threatened to move to VA unless the laws changed, so hopefully that gets the lawmakers attention.
(This post was last modified: 11-09-2018 04:46 PM by BobcatEngineer.)
11-09-2018 04:37 PM
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Post: #34
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 04:08 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  My city has around 90,000 people and a staggering 30 breweries.

Hence the nickname "Beer City"... as a craft beer person, I absolutely love it.

The local liberal loonies are constantly trying to block more breweries from opening... I don't get it, honestly. Tourism is Asheville's #1 thing going for it... so, they'd be hurting themselves.

Asheville is politically the San Francisco of the South. It's not surprising they're eager to kneecap themselves politically. Asheville has always got the difficulty of much of the area terrain going against it -- which is a big driver in it being so beautiful (but so relatively expensive) to live in. I'd also say that the explosion of growth in Greenville and corresponding big growth in KGSP probably put a damper on big business moving into the area. Twenty years ago KAVL and KGSP were more or less identical which is to say really expensive to fly from and few direct routes. Now KGSP has weekly international flights, Southwest brought prices tumbling down, and after Southwest bought AirTran for their gates in KATL Delta declared price war against Southwest. As a result Delta flies 737s and even the odd Icelandic Air 747 between KGSP and KATL. It's now cheaper for me to fly out of KGSP than drive to KATL or KCLT and start there. KAVL meanwhile is still expensive with few directs.
11-09-2018 05:04 PM
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Post: #35
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 11:25 AM)fsquid Wrote:  My kids have been enough breweries that they can probably get a degree in it. The ones here are very kid friendly with games and TVs. Usually with a food truck parked outside.

Same. We meet friends & their kids up at Wiseacre or Crosstown Brewing almost every Friday night. We all hang out, play cornhole, listen to music; order delivery or get dinner from the food truck; it's great.
11-09-2018 05:10 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
One issue I think crafts are facing is not just saturation, but the quality. Too many breweries think that featuring IPAs with enough hops to make you puke is fine enough, and while that might float a hipster's boat it isn't sustainable for the general public when there's so much competition. You're also seeing craft distilleries popping up more and more to take some of the 'niche alcohol' market.
11-09-2018 05:19 PM
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Post: #37
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 05:04 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  
(11-09-2018 04:08 PM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  My city has around 90,000 people and a staggering 30 breweries.

Hence the nickname "Beer City"... as a craft beer person, I absolutely love it.

The local liberal loonies are constantly trying to block more breweries from opening... I don't get it, honestly. Tourism is Asheville's #1 thing going for it... so, they'd be hurting themselves.

Asheville is politically the San Francisco of the South. It's not surprising they're eager to kneecap themselves politically. Asheville has always got the difficulty of much of the area terrain going against it -- which is a big driver in it being so beautiful (but so relatively expensive) to live in. I'd also say that the explosion of growth in Greenville and corresponding big growth in KGSP probably put a damper on big business moving into the area. Twenty years ago KAVL and KGSP were more or less identical which is to say really expensive to fly from and few direct routes. Now KGSP has weekly international flights, Southwest brought prices tumbling down, and after Southwest bought AirTran for their gates in KATL Delta declared price war against Southwest. As a result Delta flies 737s and even the odd Icelandic Air 747 between KGSP and KATL. It's now cheaper for me to fly out of KGSP than drive to KATL or KCLT and start there. KAVL meanwhile is still expensive with few directs.

If you like to see pot smoking hippies playing hacky sack? The Ville is for you.
Seriously though...There is good music scene there..especially bluegrass.
11-10-2018 10:14 AM
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Niner National Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 05:19 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  One issue I think crafts are facing is not just saturation, but the quality. Too many breweries think that featuring IPAs with enough hops to make you puke is fine enough, and while that might float a hipster's boat it isn't sustainable for the general public when there's so much competition. You're also seeing craft distilleries popping up more and more to take some of the 'niche alcohol' market.

Most breweries push ipa because they can brew and bottle and ipa in 6-8 days. Lagers and porters are 6-8 weeks. It is very difficilt for a small craft brewery to remain profitable with turn times on darker beers, especially when they are first starting up.

As someone that doesn't like most IPA I mostly drink olde Mecklenburg brewery beers. They are a local brewery that only brews traditional German style beers.
11-10-2018 10:24 AM
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Lush Offline
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Post: #39
RE: Craft beer industry in trouble?
(11-09-2018 05:19 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  One issue I think crafts are facing is not just saturation, but the quality. Too many breweries think that featuring IPAs with enough hops to make you puke is fine enough, and while that might float a hipster's boat it isn't sustainable for the general public when there's so much competition. You're also seeing craft distilleries popping up more and more to take some of the 'niche alcohol' market.

my city, queen city authentic, is hood centric. 52 varieties. i quit keeping track of what neighborhood was getting a new brewery. they've even sprawled. just like the good ole days when everyone could walk to their own. i hate the niche market which all my hood's got

only one brewery in cincinnati has gone under so far. just when they were starting to get better. it isn't sustainable, but good beer cannot be a trend

i'm mostly a sierra nevada pale ale drinker these days. going on three years

oh, and high life
(This post was last modified: 11-10-2018 02:39 PM by Lush.)
11-10-2018 02:38 PM
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