ExcitedOwl18
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 10:57 PM)ruowls Wrote: (11-03-2018 09:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: I don’t even think Bloomgren is a bad coach. I just think he’s overmatched by the situation. Has no experience building a program, etc.
Karlgaard needs to be given notice ASAP though. I can’t believe I gave even $50 for him to waste.
Overmatched?
Then a) He was never qualified for the situation or b) He and others did not fully understand or properly evaluate the situation.
I think he and others made projections that were never feasible. It happens.
Look at Rice’s path with Fresno State over the last 3 years. They meet in the Hawaii Bowl in 2014. Rice beats Fresno State for the first time ever (hurray). Fresno St then wins 3 then 1. They fire DeRuyter after a 1-7 start. DeRuyter was from Texas A&M and was great on paper. He did share the MWC title his first 2 years. Rice wins 5, 3 then 1 and goes shopping for a new coach. They get a P5 OC. Fresno St made their change a year earlier. So they meet in Hawaii and Fresno goes 3 then 1 win and makes a change. They get someone I respect and he wins 10 one year removed from a 1 win season and this year is 7-1 and in the conversation for the G5 access slot. Rice goes 5, 3 then 1 win. Rice’s first year after has managed a last second win. Obviously, Tedford isn’t overmatched. And they spend less than Rice. It isn’t about just spending more money or hiring a P5, NFL experiences HC. Rice is betting on better recruiting. That’s why Kansas hired Beaty. To get his Texas recruiting ties. It shouldn’t be too much to ask for more wins during the transition. After all, Fresno State met us in a bowl game and went to 1 loss just like Rice. Their change resulted in 10 wins and 7 soon to be 8 tonight this year. Rice has gotten 1 win after it’s 1 loss season. I am tired of excuses and fallacious assumptions.
I always favored hiring a guy who had head coaching experience. You need managerial experience to deal with the disaster that was/is Rice football.
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11-03-2018 11:05 PM |
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ruowls
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 10:46 PM)GoodOwl Wrote: (11-03-2018 08:00 PM)ruowls Wrote: You are seeing Stanford hubris at its finest. Stanford was fortunate that Harbaugh panned out. They whiffed with Teevens and Harris before him. Their decision makers brought in Harbaugh to run the Pro style football you see today. Shaw came in as his OC with NFL coaching. Stanford has a long history of this with a few exceptions (Elway, Teevens, Harris). Ralston, Christiansen, Wiggin, Walsh, Green, and Willingham all had some NFL ties. Stanford also endowed coaching positions.
So Rice’s Stanford AD goes out and implements the Stanford model. He brings in a Stanford OC that has NFL coaching experience to be “Stanford”. This combination coupled with a Stanford connected Rice donor got the HC position endowed. I am sure that many Rice supporters thought they hit pay dirt by getting JK, MB, and an endowed coaching position. This all looks great. Someone brought up an article that showed football spending to wins expected. Rice actually spent at a level in the top of the G5. Rice wins to spending was well below what was to be expected. Boise was far and away the best at getting bang for their buck. And then Rice supporters get duped into believing Rice is a total rebuild and Rice has to just give this all time. Well Stanford got rid of Teevens and Harris after 2 years each. Teevens has the third worst winning percentage and Harris has the worst in Stanford football history. Stanford obviously corrected course when it was not working. Let’s see what happens at Rice.
I honestly hate the Rice has no talent excuse. There is enough talent to play with FBS teams. Maybe not all but the majority of them. We all have opinions of the importance of athletic talent but there is talent at Rice. It isn’t all recruiting and it isn’t all coaching. It is a blending of the two.
I guess I have ranted enough.
Q's: Do we have a QB here on campus, and if so, what would you be doing differently with him? I suspect at Rice a decent QB is more important to W-L than at many (not all) other places. I think we all saw how fortunate TG was to inherit Chase Clement. I didn't expect us to be 10-0 right now, but I sure didn't expect us to be looking worse than last season. Whatever perceived progress was seen in first few games appears to have evaporated.
On the other hand, down 27-0, we did come back quite a ways today. Stats were abysmal, and some kind of adjustments seemed to have been made. Or was UTEP more spooked that they were actually looking like they were going to win? Sure, we need to mostly build for the future, especially at this point, but is is necessary to do so looking as bad as we seem to be doing? Can't we win a few along the way of building, against the likes of UTEp and CUSA, or is that asking too much too soon?
Simple answer......Teach the game.
Long answer.....Focus on how to be successful throwing the ball. Teach the receivers and QB how to work together and let them play. Football can’t be fully structured. You can’t say an out is always at 12 yards and the QB always gets the ball out at 2.5 seconds. Watch the Rice QBs. They throw the ball the same way every time for any given play called. Rice receivers run a curl the exact same way every time and the QBs throw it to them the exact same way. That teaching doesn’t work. Too easy to defend. Conversely, you can’t teach DBs to follow the exact same paths and use the exact same technique on every down. Too easy to burn.
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11-03-2018 11:13 PM |
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ruowls
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
Yes Rice has QBs that can be very effective given the right guidance.
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11-03-2018 11:14 PM |
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ruowls
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 11:05 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: (11-03-2018 10:57 PM)ruowls Wrote: (11-03-2018 09:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: I don’t even think Bloomgren is a bad coach. I just think he’s overmatched by the situation. Has no experience building a program, etc.
Karlgaard needs to be given notice ASAP though. I can’t believe I gave even $50 for him to waste.
Overmatched?
Then a) He was never qualified for the situation or b) He and others did not fully understand or properly evaluate the situation.
I think he and others made projections that were never feasible. It happens.
Look at Rice’s path with Fresno State over the last 3 years. They meet in the Hawaii Bowl in 2014. Rice beats Fresno State for the first time ever (hurray). Fresno St then wins 3 then 1. They fire DeRuyter after a 1-7 start. DeRuyter was from Texas A&M and was great on paper. He did share the MWC title his first 2 years. Rice wins 5, 3 then 1 and goes shopping for a new coach. They get a P5 OC. Fresno St made their change a year earlier. So they meet in Hawaii and Fresno goes 3 then 1 win and makes a change. They get someone I respect and he wins 10 one year removed from a 1 win season and this year is 7-1 and in the conversation for the G5 access slot. Rice goes 5, 3 then 1 win. Rice’s first year after has managed a last second win. Obviously, Tedford isn’t overmatched. And they spend less than Rice. It isn’t about just spending more money or hiring a P5, NFL experiences HC. Rice is betting on better recruiting. That’s why Kansas hired Beaty. To get his Texas recruiting ties. It shouldn’t be too much to ask for more wins during the transition. After all, Fresno State met us in a bowl game and went to 1 loss just like Rice. Their change resulted in 10 wins and 7 soon to be 8 tonight this year. Rice has gotten 1 win after it’s 1 loss season. I am tired of excuses and fallacious assumptions.
I always favored hiring a guy who had head coaching experience. You need managerial experience to deal with the disaster that was/is Rice football.
What disaster?
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11-03-2018 11:15 PM |
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ruowls
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
To second your statement, I asked Tedford if he wanted to be the HC at Fresno State when he was the OC at Oregon. He said he wasn’t ready.
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11-03-2018 11:24 PM |
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Owl 69/70/75
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 08:00 PM)ruowls Wrote: You are seeing Stanford hubris at its finest. Stanford was fortunate that Harbaugh panned out. They whiffed with Teevens and Harris before him. Their decision makers brought in Harbaugh to run the Pro style football you see today. Shaw came in as his OC with NFL coaching. Stanford has a long history of this with a few exceptions (Elway, Teevens, Harris). Ralston, Christiansen, Wiggin, Walsh, Green, and Willingham all had some NFL ties. Stanford also endowed coaching positions.
So Rice’s Stanford AD goes out and implements the Stanford model. He brings in a Stanford OC that has NFL coaching experience to be “Stanford”. This combination coupled with a Stanford connected Rice donor got the HC position endowed. I am sure that many Rice supporters thought they hit pay dirt by getting JK, MB, and an endowed coaching position. This all looks great. Someone brought up an article that showed football spending to wins expected. Rice actually spent at a level in the top of the G5. Rice wins to spending was well below what was to be expected. Boise was far and away the best at getting bang for their buck. And then Rice supporters get duped into believing Rice is a total rebuild and Rice has to just give this all time. Well Stanford got rid of Teevens and Harris after 2 years each. Teevens has the third worst winning percentage and Harris has the worst in Stanford football history. Stanford obviously corrected course when it was not working. Let’s see what happens at Rice.
I honestly hate the Rice has no talent excuse. There is enough talent to play with FBS teams. Maybe not all but the majority of them. We all have opinions of the importance of athletic talent but there is talent at Rice. It isn’t all recruiting and it isn’t all coaching. It is a blending of the two.
I guess I have ranted enough.
You really don't have a high regard for Stanford, do you? I actually liked the hire initially, I think there are actually a lot of things we could learn from the Stanford model. But when Bloomgren starts talking about a power running game and pro-style passing attack, I kinda shake my head and wonder. I just don't think we can attract the talent necessary to run that kind of scheme.
Do you really think we have the talent to hang with most FBS teams? As someone above asked, who is your quarterback in making that assessment? I think maybe we did have that kind of potential talent 5 years ago, but I think there has been a significant downturn since then.
Make no mistake, we needed the EZF or something like it. But it was sold as helping recruiting, and since we finished it, our recruiting has gone downhill.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2018 11:31 PM by Owl 69/70/75.)
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11-03-2018 11:30 PM |
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ruowls
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 11:30 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (11-03-2018 08:00 PM)ruowls Wrote: You are seeing Stanford hubris at its finest. Stanford was fortunate that Harbaugh panned out. They whiffed with Teevens and Harris before him. Their decision makers brought in Harbaugh to run the Pro style football you see today. Shaw came in as his OC with NFL coaching. Stanford has a long history of this with a few exceptions (Elway, Teevens, Harris). Ralston, Christiansen, Wiggin, Walsh, Green, and Willingham all had some NFL ties. Stanford also endowed coaching positions.
So Rice’s Stanford AD goes out and implements the Stanford model. He brings in a Stanford OC that has NFL coaching experience to be “Stanford”. This combination coupled with a Stanford connected Rice donor got the HC position endowed. I am sure that many Rice supporters thought they hit pay dirt by getting JK, MB, and an endowed coaching position. This all looks great. Someone brought up an article that showed football spending to wins expected. Rice actually spent at a level in the top of the G5. Rice wins to spending was well below what was to be expected. Boise was far and away the best at getting bang for their buck. And then Rice supporters get duped into believing Rice is a total rebuild and Rice has to just give this all time. Well Stanford got rid of Teevens and Harris after 2 years each. Teevens has the third worst winning percentage and Harris has the worst in Stanford football history. Stanford obviously corrected course when it was not working. Let’s see what happens at Rice.
I honestly hate the Rice has no talent excuse. There is enough talent to play with FBS teams. Maybe not all but the majority of them. We all have opinions of the importance of athletic talent but there is talent at Rice. It isn’t all recruiting and it isn’t all coaching. It is a blending of the two.
I guess I have ranted enough.
You really don't have a high regard for Stanford, do you? I actually liked the hire initially, I think there are actually a lot of things we could learn from the Stanford model. But when Bloomgren starts talking about a power running game and pro-style passing attack, I kinda shake my head and wonder. I just don't think we can attract the talent necessary to run that kind of scheme.
Do you really think we have the talent to hang with most FBS teams? As someone above asked, who is your quarterback in making that assessment? I think maybe we did have that kind of potential talent 5 years ago, but I think there has been a significant downturn since then.
Make no mistake, we needed the EZF or something like it. But it was sold as helping recruiting, and since we finished it, our recruiting has gone downhill.
I don’t like their arrogance. Bet you didn’t know my brother beat both Stanford and Cal in the same year. His team was the Bay Area champion.
Yes I do think there is talent. The offense has to be more productive. If you look, the offense threw the ball more in the UH games and the play better. It helps the defense and stresses the opposition. Improve the passing game and the running game gets better. I have seen enough in the receivers and QBs to be better and more consistent. Things need to be tweaked though.
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11-03-2018 11:39 PM |
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ruowls
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
You can learn from many. Yes Stanford has some things from which you can learn.
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11-03-2018 11:48 PM |
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ruowls
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
You want specifics:
They run posts routes wrong.
They run curls wrong.
They run out routes wrong.
QBs throw to the wrong shoulder most of the time.
QBs throw the ball to flat or arc it too much most of the time.
There aren’t enough patterns coordinating an attack.
All of these are easy fixes.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2018 11:53 PM by ruowls.)
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11-03-2018 11:51 PM |
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ExcitedOwl18
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
What I can’t figure out is how Joe K expected to be able to get another AD gig without actually doing anything at his current job... He has yielded ZERO results during his tenure and seems to spend more time tweeting about organizational development and congratulating colleagues on their success than he does fixing his own program. That, and marathon training.
I’m honestly surprised he hired Bragga from TN Tech. Didn’t think that’d appeal to his California compatriots.
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11-04-2018 12:24 AM |
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Antarius
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 10:49 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote: (11-03-2018 08:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote: He will get his three years. But whet before I expected the curve to be 4 wins, 7, 9+, now it needs to be 1, 6, 9, a much steeper curve. I just hope for one of those meaningless bowls soon.
I think it will more likely be 1, 4, 7, then maybe 9-10 in year four. That is, if we can recruit..
Here's what I don't understand. What happened to our recruiting? At the end of 2014/early 2015 we were coming off our third straight bowl, winning two of the three, and one year away from a conference championship. We add the EZF, which was supposed to make a difference, and recruiting dies. What happened? More importantly, how do we fix it?
How quickly we get better will depend on how well we recruit. One thing we have going for us, when we tell any recruit that he can come here and play immediately, he's going to believe it.
The collapse of CUSA. Posted this in response before - but it's no coincidence that Rice and Marshall simultaneously reared their paper tiger heads at exactly the moment that the top half of the conference left.
Rice auto regresses to the bottom of whatever field we play in. By removing the top of CUSA, Rice had a few years of being artificially better after which we regressed to our normal at the bottom. Put Rice in FCS and the tail might have been longer, but the result exactly the same.
I do not know if it is fixable. But if Rice wants any chance to fix it, they need to ensure that everyone who had decision making or influencing power over this very obvious multi-decade developing trainwreck be relieved of their duties.
Rice Athletics functions in an environment where actions do not have consequences. It takes rock bottom or a likely lawsuit to get rid of someone. You can be terrible at your job for years and eh- no big deal. With institutional inertia that strong, it tends to take a life of it's own. I'm not saying this is the issue with the current staff (as its year 1), but this is a core problem with the department. When poor performers retain jobs with no consequences for their actions, good people leave. Then you are left with the Greenspans and Driesbachs of the world.
The 25(0) and ilk didnt magically start to find solutions any more than Bailiff magically learned how to coach in 2013. If they keep influence and control, may as well save a few hundred million, whatever minimal shred of dignity Rice has left, and shutter the program.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2018 12:46 AM by Antarius.)
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11-04-2018 12:35 AM |
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Antarius
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
Also while the coaching staff and team screwed the pooch today, there is a larger problem on hand.
You can have the best coach in the world, the best front office, but if the people truly in charge are like Jimmy Haslam and Jerry Jones, you're ****** six ways to Sunday. And even Jimmy Haslam likely wouldn't hire Greenspan.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2018 12:53 AM by Antarius.)
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11-04-2018 12:50 AM |
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Tiki Owl
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 11:48 PM)ruowls Wrote: You can learn from many. Yes Stanford has some things from which you can learn.
Curious how you feel about what Fitzgerald does at Northwestern.
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11-04-2018 08:10 AM |
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Mademen
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
I have yet to see Rice play since the Prairie View game, but I still like Bloomgren and think he deserves a chance to win. I would be more concerned with the infrastructure in place to support Athletics.
I honestly don't think Rice has marketed to the greater Houston area since Mike Pede left. I'm sure they are working on a shoe string budget, but the idea that a Stanford grad was going to come in to Houston, Texas and take a Stanford approach to athletics is short sighted to what Houston is all about.
I sent a 25 page marketing plan to Rice one of the umpteen times that its job was open and did not here a peep from them. I am 100% certain that I could do a better job than the current AD approaching black ink though it will probably take a couple of years. Rice does not market to the greater Houston area and prides itself on being "The Little Engine that Could". That is a small approach and has yielded small results.
Rice has a pretty nice home football schedule next year. Someone should pull their heads out of the sand and try something different over there. The AD was given an extension through 2021 because Rice was clearly afraid of losing him to.....ummm....I have no idea. Let's see if Stanford South can figure something out this offseason.
In conclusion, give Bloomgren a chance. I would trade you Major Applewhite for him in a heartbeat.
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11-04-2018 08:50 AM |
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ESE84
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-04-2018 12:24 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: What I can’t figure out is how Joe K expected to be able to get another AD gig without actually doing anything at his current job... He has yielded ZERO results during his tenure and seems to spend more time tweeting about organizational development and congratulating colleagues on their success than he does fixing his own program. That, and marathon training.
This puzzles me, also. Football and basketball are now owned by Karlgaard's decisions. What if Bloomgren goes 0-12 next year? What if Pera's players transfer again after this season? No one will take Karlgaard off our payroll.
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11-04-2018 08:56 AM |
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exowlswimmer
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-04-2018 08:56 AM)ESE84 Wrote: (11-04-2018 12:24 AM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote: What I can’t figure out is how Joe K expected to be able to get another AD gig without actually doing anything at his current job... He has yielded ZERO results during his tenure and seems to spend more time tweeting about organizational development and congratulating colleagues on their success than he does fixing his own program. That, and marathon training.
This puzzles me, also. Football and basketball are now owned by Karlgaard's decisions. What if Bloomgren goes 0-12 next year? What if Pera's players transfer again after this season? No one will take Karlgaard off our payroll.
Nothing on athletics during President Leebron’s town hall meeting with alumni Friday afternoon.
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11-04-2018 09:09 AM |
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mrbig
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-03-2018 11:51 PM)ruowls Wrote: You want specifics:
They run posts routes wrong.
They run curls wrong.
They run out routes wrong.
QBs throw to the wrong shoulder most of the time.
QBs throw the ball to flat or arc it too much most of the time.
There aren’t enough patterns coordinating an attack.
All of these are easy fixes.
Have you seen changes (positive or negative) in any of these compared to the last 2 years under Bailiff? Noticed any difference between the younger guys (with less exposure to Bailiff’s staff) and the older guys? How long would it typically take to re-learn route-running at game speed for guys who have the incorrect muscle memory on these things? Are things any better than the last 2 years of Bailiff?
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2018 10:42 AM by mrbig.)
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11-04-2018 10:41 AM |
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Barney
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
After reading this thread's latest entries, you'd think that Rice's problems in athletics are due to bad coaches, a bad AD, and poor preparation of QB's and receivers.
Uh, no.
3 things:
1. Our built-in disadvantages that have always been there and may always be there presumably (conference affiliation, academic standards, NCAA inequities, scholarship issues affecting baseball, etc.)
2. Bad luck -- best coach we've ever had got older and older and lost his edge; VCU position came open at just the wrong time; corrupt NCAA basketball landscape collapsed on us; Harvey, Padgett, etc.
3. THE MAIN ONE -- outside of Track & Field, male athletes at Rice by and large exist in a vacuum -- with no personal connection to the school, its students, its leaders, or its social activities. There's no school spirit for athletics, and nobody comes to games. Almost none of the professors or other campus leaders have any interest in athletics at all. As a result, the entire basketball team jumps ship at first opportunity, and so do C Anderson, JT Ibe, etc. Recruits see no band, empty stands.
#'s 1 and 2 are what they are.
But #3, BY FAR the main problem, we could fix....if we had an URGENT sense of purpose among our schools' leaders....but we don't.
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11-04-2018 10:54 AM |
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elw4796
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RE: Rice-UTEP postgame: pissing in the wind
(11-04-2018 10:54 AM)Barney Wrote: After reading this thread's latest entries, you'd think that Rice's problems in athletics are due to bad coaches, a bad AD, and poor preparation of QB's and receivers.
Uh, no.
3 things:
1. Our built-in disadvantages that have always been there and may always be there presumably (conference affiliation, academic standards, NCAA inequities, scholarship issues affecting baseball, etc.)
2. Bad luck -- best coach we've ever had got older and older and lost his edge; VCU position came open at just the wrong time; corrupt NCAA basketball landscape collapsed on us; Harvey, Padgett, etc.
3. THE MAIN ONE -- outside of Track & Field, male athletes at Rice by and large exist in a vacuum -- with no personal connection to the school, its students, its leaders, or its social activities. There's no school spirit for athletics, and nobody comes to games. Almost none of the professors or other campus leaders have any interest in athletics at all. As a result, the entire basketball team jumps ship at first opportunity, and so do C Anderson, JT Ibe, etc. Recruits see no band, empty stands.
#'s 1 and 2 are what they are.
But #3, BY FAR the main problem, we could fix....if we had an URGENT sense of purpose among our schools' leaders....but we don't.
Agree wholeheartedly with #3 and, from my experiences there, don't see it being fixed anytime soon. Maybe the new tuition program may help, but who knows. It should also be noted that the model we're trying to replicate has had well-documented troubles filling up their stadium. And that's with a team perpetually ranked inside the top-25.
(This post was last modified: 11-04-2018 11:11 AM by elw4796.)
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11-04-2018 11:11 AM |
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