(11-03-2018 06:07 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(11-03-2018 06:03 PM)07owl Wrote:  I’m not even mad at bloomgren for losing, I’m mad at how we lost. Green had success throwing downfield, but we wouldn’t do it unless it was 4th and long. And using last timeout on 4th and 20 was inexcusable. Bailiff wins this game and I was not a bailiff fan

Bailiff doesn't win this game because Bailiff's team would have been even further behind at the half.

Heisman loses this game, but Alborn wins it.

Just opinions, like the two before it.

The four of them together plus a couple of bucks gets you coffee most places.

(11-03-2018 06:06 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  We are still trying to put square pegs in round holes. I understand what Bloomgren wants to do, and he could get the talent to do it at Stanford. I'm not sure he can ever recruit what needs to do that at Rice. I don't see the dominant offensive linemen, or the feature running back, or the 4*/5* passing quarterback coming here. Keep in mind that he got to Stanford after David Shaw replaced Jim Harbaugh, so the talent pipeline was already in pretty full flow there. Here there isn't much in that regard, and I don't really know what we have to offer to land those talents.

I still think we are going to have to do something contrarian on offense, do something to get more speed on the field defensively, and upgrade the kicking game even further. I think we really have to ask how long we can use "pound the rock" as our signature strategy.

Bloomgren is well connected to some pretty big names in the coaching profession. I hope he picks their brains to figure out a different approach.

You are seeing Stanford hubris at its finest. Stanford was fortunate that Harbaugh panned out. They whiffed with Teevens and Harris before him. Their decision makers brought in Harbaugh to run the Pro style football you see today. Shaw came in as his OC with NFL coaching. Stanford has a long history of this with a few exceptions (Elway, Teevens, Harris). Ralston, Christiansen, Wiggin, Walsh, Green, and Willingham all had some NFL ties. Stanford also endowed coaching positions.
So Rice’s Stanford AD goes out and implements the Stanford model. He brings in a Stanford OC that has NFL coaching experience to be “Stanford”. This combination coupled with a Stanford connected Rice donor got the HC position endowed. I am sure that many Rice supporters thought they hit pay dirt by getting JK, MB, and an endowed coaching position. This all looks great. Someone brought up an article that showed football spending to wins expected. Rice actually spent at a level in the top of the G5. Rice wins to spending was well below what was to be expected. Boise was far and away the best at getting bang for their buck. And then Rice supporters get duped into believing Rice is a total rebuild and Rice has to just give this all time. Well Stanford got rid of Teevens and Harris after 2 years each. Teevens has the third worst winning percentage and Harris has the worst in Stanford football history. Stanford obviously corrected course when it was not working. Let’s see what happens at Rice.
I honestly hate the Rice has no talent excuse. There is enough talent to play with FBS teams. Maybe not all but the majority of them. We all have opinions of the importance of athletic talent but there is talent at Rice. It isn’t all recruiting and it isn’t all coaching. It is a blending of the two.
I guess I have ranted enough.

To heck with comparing Bloom to various coaches from the past.

Let’s compare what we are getting with what we expected to get.

Preparedness. I know lots of us were thinking the 2018 would be much better prepared than recent teams. I didn’t see it that way today.

Play calling. Many of us thought the play calling would be much more imaginative, is it? Esupka up the middle?

Time management was expect d to better. Maybe it is. Maybe not.

Square pegs. We expected Bloom to adjust to player’s abilities. How’s that going.

I don’t want to hear any more BS about empty cupboards. Who the heck takes over a 1-11 team with a full cupboard? He has talented players.. Some are not being used correctly, some are not being used at all.

The first three games were encouraging. Since then, not so much. My opinion is Bloom has given up on 2018,

I sure hope he recruits the heck out of it, because I expect most of next year team will be sophisticated or younger.

I thought Bloom was the guy we hoped for. I thought his staff was the staff we hoped for. But this season is something none of us hoped for.

He will get his three years. But whet before I expected the curve to be 4 wins, 7, 9+, now it needs to be 1, 6, 9, a much steeper curve. I just hope for one of those meaningless bowls soon.

(11-03-2018 06:13 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  How bad does it need to get for Karlgaard to be fired?

Reasonable question.

(11-03-2018 08:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  He will get his three years. But whet before I expected the curve to be 4 wins, 7, 9+, now it needs to be 1, 6, 9, a much steeper curve. I just hope for one of those meaningless bowls soon.

2019 will be a challenge with Army, Wake Forest, Texas and Baylor out of conference.

(11-03-2018 08:43 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(11-03-2018 06:13 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  How bad does it need to get for Karlgaard to be fired?

Reasonable question.

You got 3 coaches in the big 3 men's sports in their first/second years. All looked like good hires on paper. So I'm guessing Karlgaard, like the coaches, gets 3 years. If things aren't trending up in 2/3, maybe he gets canned?

(11-03-2018 08:50 PM)Intellectual_Brutality Wrote:  

(11-03-2018 08:43 PM)ESE84 Wrote:  

(11-03-2018 06:13 PM)BufflOwl Wrote:  How bad does it need to get for Karlgaard to be fired?

Reasonable question.

You got 3 coaches in the big 3 men's sports in their first/second years. All looked like good hires on paper. So I'm guessing Karlgaard, like the coaches, gets 3 years. If things aren't trending up in 2/3, maybe he gets canned?

You mean he gets a pass for the messes that led up to coaching changes in football and baseball, and for clearly hiring the wrong guy in basketball? This is a big problem (historically) with Rice athletics: wait years too long to make obvious changes, then claim that your new coaches need time.

We could’ve had Brian Bohannon as our head coach easily but nah Karlgaard didn’t even make that phone call and hired his friend instead.

I don’t even think Bloomgren is a bad coach. I just think he’s overmatched by the situation. Has no experience building a program, etc.

Karlgaard needs to be given notice ASAP though. I can’t believe I gave even $50 for him to waste.

I think it is too early to give up on Pera or Bloomgren. But year #2 becomes immensely important for both when year #1 was so horrible. At least Pera had some excuse when half the team transferred. A couple good players transferred from football, but a truly elite coach should have been able to beat UTEP with this group, and Rice needs a truly elite coach to ever make any kind of splash.

I guess that is a long way of saying that while I think Bloomgren might still be a very good coach, his upside has diminished in my eyes. Perhaps he can be an 85 still if he makes adjustments and learns from his mistakes, but he’s not a 100 coach. Incidentally, I think Bailiff was probably a 35-40 on my scale, but 10 years averaging in that range eventually dragged the program down, notwithstanding a few blips with some success.

(11-03-2018 09:24 PM)mrbig Wrote:  I think it is too early to give up on Pera or Bloomgren. But year #2 becomes immensely important for both when year #1 was so horrible. At least Pera had some excuse when half the team transferred. A couple good players transferred from football, but a truly elite coach should have been able to beat UTEP with this group, and Rice needs a truly elite coach to ever make any kind of splash.

I guess that is a long way of saying that while I think Bloomgren might still be a very good coach, his upside has diminished in my eyes. Perhaps he can be an 85 still if he makes adjustments and learns from his mistakes, but he’s not a 100 coach. Incidentally, I think Bailiff was probably a 35-40 on my scale, but 10 years averaging in that range eventually dragged the program down, notwithstanding a few blips with some success.

I think that's about right

The lack of consistent play is truly maddening. Better bring some body bags to Louisiana the next couple of weeks. It’s going to get really ugly from here on out.

Halftime stats from Bama/LSU look kind of similar to UTEP/Rice. Does that mean Bama:UTEP as LSU:Rice?

I had to miss this game but curious was it the play calling that was bad or the quarterback played poorly?

(11-03-2018 09:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I don’t even think Bloomgren is a bad coach. I just think he’s overmatched by the situation. Has no experience building a program, etc.

Karlgaard needs to be given notice ASAP though. I can’t believe I gave even $50 for him to waste.

I wonder how the athletic department’s “11/3 113 donations” went today.

(11-03-2018 07:43 PM)Tiki Owl Wrote:  

(11-03-2018 07:30 PM)RiceFootball2K5 Wrote:  

(11-03-2018 06:33 PM)Barney Wrote:  Oh for crying out loud.
It's obvious that our problems run much, much deeper than coaching.
The biggest negative of the day to me -- 30 recruits now won't even consider coming to Rice unless we're their only offer.
We have minimal student support; no band; no crowd; and we'll never[/u] win (even in CUSA) if we are smaller, slower, and less skilled than every team we face.

This. I’m much more concerned that we laid an egg in front of a bunch of recruits than anything else. It’s not like Rice football in C-USA as currently assembled is a great product to sell to begin with.

I said earlier this year that we can be bad enough for recruits to want to come because they believe they can play immediately. But we can’t be so bad tha a recruit says no way do they want to be in a situation that is hopeless. The first half today was pretty much the second scenario, whether or not the 2nd half comeback erased some of those thoughts we shall see. The next two weeks will not help.

We recovered from the Jerry Berndt era and having the nation's longest losing streak. Northwestern recovered from their record-setting losing streak back then to become what they are today (even though they lost to Naughty Dame today). It isn't fun right now, and gallows humor is better than no humor at all. And it won't be easy. But college football always changes, the TV money landscape is evolving, and the concussion thing may force some rules changes that help level the playing field a bit more in our favor eventually.

Someday we'll make the NCAA tourney in Men's Basketball again, and someday we will be good again in football. Just not today, not for a while longer. It stinks, but I don't want to throw in the towel.

(11-03-2018 09:06 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  We could’ve had Brian Bohannon as our head coach easily but nah Karlgaard didn’t even make that phone call and hired his friend instead.

Bohannon would have meant a return to the flexbone. I wouldn't have a problem with that, but some people on here might.

(11-03-2018 08:00 PM)ruowls Wrote:  You are seeing Stanford hubris at its finest. Stanford was fortunate that Harbaugh panned out. They whiffed with Teevens and Harris before him. Their decision makers brought in Harbaugh to run the Pro style football you see today. Shaw came in as his OC with NFL coaching. Stanford has a long history of this with a few exceptions (Elway, Teevens, Harris). Ralston, Christiansen, Wiggin, Walsh, Green, and Willingham all had some NFL ties. Stanford also endowed coaching positions.
So Rice’s Stanford AD goes out and implements the Stanford model. He brings in a Stanford OC that has NFL coaching experience to be “Stanford”. This combination coupled with a Stanford connected Rice donor got the HC position endowed. I am sure that many Rice supporters thought they hit pay dirt by getting JK, MB, and an endowed coaching position. This all looks great. Someone brought up an article that showed football spending to wins expected. Rice actually spent at a level in the top of the G5. Rice wins to spending was well below what was to be expected. Boise was far and away the best at getting bang for their buck. And then Rice supporters get duped into believing Rice is a total rebuild and Rice has to just give this all time. Well Stanford got rid of Teevens and Harris after 2 years each. Teevens has the third worst winning percentage and Harris has the worst in Stanford football history. Stanford obviously corrected course when it was not working. Let’s see what happens at Rice.
I honestly hate the Rice has no talent excuse. There is enough talent to play with FBS teams. Maybe not all but the majority of them. We all have opinions of the importance of athletic talent but there is talent at Rice. It isn’t all recruiting and it isn’t all coaching. It is a blending of the two.
I guess I have ranted enough.

Q's: Do we have a QB here on campus, and if so, what would you be doing differently with him? I suspect at Rice a decent QB is more important to W-L than at many (not all) other places. I think we all saw how fortunate TG was to inherit Chase Clement. I didn't expect us to be 10-0 right now, but I sure didn't expect us to be looking worse than last season. Whatever perceived progress was seen in first few games appears to have evaporated.

On the other hand, down 27-0, we did come back quite a ways today. Stats were abysmal, and some kind of adjustments seemed to have been made. Or was UTEP more spooked that they were actually looking like they were going to win? Sure, we need to mostly build for the future, especially at this point, but is is necessary to do so looking as bad as we seem to be doing? Can't we win a few along the way of building, against the likes of UTEp and CUSA, or is that asking too much too soon?

(11-03-2018 08:10 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  He will get his three years. But whet before I expected the curve to be 4 wins, 7, 9+, now it needs to be 1, 6, 9, a much steeper curve. I just hope for one of those meaningless bowls soon.

I think it will more likely be 1, 4, 7, then maybe 9-10 in year four. That is, if we can recruit..

Here's what I don't understand. What happened to our recruiting? At the end of 2014/early 2015 we were coming off our third straight bowl, winning two of the three, and one year away from a conference championship. We add the EZF, which was supposed to make a difference, and recruiting dies. What happened? More importantly, how do we fix it?

How quickly we get better will depend on how well we recruit. One thing we have going for us, when we tell any recruit that he can come here and play immediately, he's going to believe it.

(11-03-2018 09:07 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  I don’t even think Bloomgren is a bad coach. I just think he’s overmatched by the situation. Has no experience building a program, etc.

Karlgaard needs to be given notice ASAP though. I can’t believe I gave even $50 for him to waste.

Overmatched?
Then a) He was never qualified for the situation or b) He and others did not fully understand or properly evaluate the situation.

I think he and others made projections that were never feasible. It happens.

Look at Rice’s path with Fresno State over the last 3 years. They meet in the Hawaii Bowl in 2014. Rice beats Fresno State for the first time ever (hurray). Fresno St then wins 3 then 1. They fire DeRuyter after a 1-7 start. DeRuyter was from Texas A&M and was great on paper. He did share the MWC title his first 2 years. Rice wins 5, 3 then 1 and goes shopping for a new coach. They get a P5 OC. Fresno St made their change a year earlier. So they meet in Hawaii and Fresno goes 3 then 1 win and makes a change. They get someone I respect and he wins 10 one year removed from a 1 win season and this year is 7-1 and in the conversation for the G5 access slot. Rice goes 5, 3 then 1 win. Rice’s first year after has managed a last second win. Obviously, Tedford isn’t overmatched. And they spend less than Rice. It isn’t about just spending more money or hiring a P5, NFL experiences HC. Rice is betting on better recruiting. That’s why Kansas hired Beaty. To get his Texas recruiting ties. It shouldn’t be too much to ask for more wins during the transition. After all, Fresno State met us in a bowl game and went to 1 loss just like Rice. Their change resulted in 10 wins and 7 soon to be 8 tonight this year. Rice has gotten 1 win after it’s 1 loss season. I am tired of excuses and fallacious assumptions.