The unofficial online home for fans of the Western Michigan University Broncos. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-30-2018 07:20 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  "half-empty stadiums" would signal a rise in attendance over previous November weekdays.

I appreciate the optimism and accuracy of this statement.

(10-29-2018 09:27 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 08:44 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 04:39 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  WMU is one of the youngest teams in the country.

Source?

Info came during the Ball State / ND game. Ball State was one of the top 10 youngest teams as well. Maybe 3rd quarter when the chart appeared during the game. I'll see if I can find it later.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using CSNbbs mobile app

Toledo has 10 Sophs and 8 Freshmen on their Two Deep Chart.

(10-29-2018 03:44 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 01:30 PM)Bronc33 Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 01:23 PM)Fthechips Wrote:  If Lester goes 6-6 again, it will confirm all my worries about the program. His path is right in front of him, he has no excuses this year. I think we can still pull out 8 wins.

Yeah, 6 wins is not happening. That'd be a complete failure.

I could def see us not winning another game. Ohio and NIU are probably a bit better than us and Ball St on the road is no gimme. Back to mediocrity we go, nice work Kathy

I could definately see us winning every other game on the schedule. 11 wins and another MAC championship! Back to the top! Nice job Kathy!

If you're going to be pissed about things that didn't happen yet I might as well celebrate things that didn't happen yet.

The thinking that WMU is young is laughable. We are quite the opposite...
(our 2-deep is quite experienced and not very young either)

Starting O:
3 RS SR
4 seniors
3 JRs
1 FR

Starting D:
1 RS SR
5 SR's
3 JR's
2 SOPH

^ Wait, we return 4 starters on Offense and 5 on Defense next year? Am I reading that right?

(10-30-2018 08:37 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  The thinking that WMU is young is laughable. We are quite the opposite...
(our 2-deep is quite experienced and not very young either)

Starting O:
3 RS SR
4 seniors
3 JRs
1 FR

Starting D:
1 RS SR
5 SR's
3 JR's
2 SOPH

I agree, this is a very experienced group. The freshmen we play on offense are very good. Reed is stellar. Eleby looks to be quite good too. How much his inexperience will cost us is yet to be determined. He looked pretty comfortable last Thursday, but he came into the game without knowing he would play. We will see how he does against Ohio.

Against Toledo I would have traded our defense for a defense consisting entirely of freshmen, as long as those freshmen had a pulse and were prepared to play.

Our injury-free two deep, not counting the MIA Jackson Bros.:

QB: Jr, Fr
RB: Jr, Sr
WR: Sr, RFr
WR: Jr, So
WR: Fr, Jr
TE: Sr, Jr
T: So, RFr
G: So, Sr
C: Sr, Jr
G: Jr, So
T: So, Sr

A pit hard to pin down with our line packages, I put Clayton as a starter and Moment as a backup:

DE: Jr, Jr
DT: So, So
DT: Jr, Sr
DE: Sr, So
LB: Jr, Fr
LB: Jr, RFr
LB: Jr, So
CB: Jr, Jr
S: Jr, Fr
S: So, Jr
CB: Sr, Fr

Starters:
5 Sr
11 Jr
5 So
1 Fr

Two Deep:
9 Sr
15 Jr
9 So
8 Fr

(10-29-2018 09:27 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 08:44 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 04:39 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  WMU is one of the youngest teams in the country.

Source?

Info came during the Ball State / ND game. Ball State was one of the top 10 youngest teams as well. Maybe 3rd quarter when the chart appeared during the game. I'll see if I can find it later.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using CSNbbs mobile app

Found it. It is "fewest seniors on roaster" chart. It lists WMU at 10. Go to the 1:57:45 mark. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdZ7d-6ScM4

(10-30-2018 08:49 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:  ^ Wait, we return 4 starters on Offense and 5 on Defense next year? Am I reading that right?

I believe quite a few of the seniors i listed are actually RS juniors so we should get 1 more year out of them...we should be quite loaded next year and favored to win the MAC.

(10-30-2018 07:20 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 11:56 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  There's a lot of meaningful November MACtion games to play in half-empty stadiums!

"half-empty stadiums" would signal a rise in attendance over previous November weekdays.

Or, as I showed you, previous November Saturdays.

(10-30-2018 10:29 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 07:20 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 11:56 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  There's a lot of meaningful November MACtion games to play in half-empty stadiums!

"half-empty stadiums" would signal a rise in attendance over previous November weekdays.

Or, as I showed you, previous November Saturdays.

...which is directly related to weekday games eroding the attendance fan base. Pushes fans away, regardless of the day.

Weekday November games has been a vile cancer to MAC football. To argue otherwise is ignorant and foolish.

(10-30-2018 10:41 AM)GullLake Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 10:29 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 07:20 AM)MajorHoople Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 11:56 AM)RunningGame Wrote:  There's a lot of meaningful November MACtion games to play in half-empty stadiums!

"half-empty stadiums" would signal a rise in attendance over previous November weekdays.

Or, as I showed you, previous November Saturdays.

...which is directly related to weekday games eroding the attendance fan base. Pushes fans away, regardless of the day.

Weekday November games has been a vile cancer to MAC football. To argue otherwise is ignorant and foolish.

I presented evidence. You are presenting feelings. Many of the games I listed were prior to midweek games becoming the norm. The fact is that attendance has held roughly steady at around a 17k average (give or take) for a long time, and when the weather gets cold in November the stadium is empty.

Perhaps other MAC programs have been hurt more. I could see that, as WMU has a higher population base nearby Waldo than most other programs excluding Toledo.

If the fan base is so eroded that would affect attendance earlier in the year too, no? Why are we still able to routinely pull good MAC crowds in Sept/Oct?

It's the weather, and it takes a really good team to get people to games in November regardless of day.

As a side note I find it funny when I see NIU fans whine about midweek games as I would bet a large amount that they wouldn't have made the Orange Bowl without ESPN exposure.

The argument to me is whether the ESPN deal- which is not for huge money- is still worth it in today's climate of prevalent streaming. I think it still is but the day is rapidly approaching where it won't be due to cord cutting. I do agree that it impacts attendance, i just think a lot of people are way overstating it. Like "vile cancer".

(10-30-2018 11:25 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  As a side note I find it funny when I see NIU fans whine about midweek games as I would bet a large amount that they wouldn't have made the Orange Bowl without ESPN exposure.

The argument to me is whether the ESPN deal- which is not for huge money- is still worth it in today's climate of prevalent streaming. I think it still is but the day is rapidly approaching where it won't be due to cord cutting. I do agree that it impacts attendance, i just think a lot of people are way overstating it. Like "vile cancer".

The deal is crap when you consider Maction is now the 2nd or 3rd best TV viewing option even during mid-week. If we were the main attraction on ESPN, then id be all in.

(10-30-2018 12:01 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 11:25 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  As a side note I find it funny when I see NIU fans whine about midweek games as I would bet a large amount that they wouldn't have made the Orange Bowl without ESPN exposure.

The argument to me is whether the ESPN deal- which is not for huge money- is still worth it in today's climate of prevalent streaming. I think it still is but the day is rapidly approaching where it won't be due to cord cutting. I do agree that it impacts attendance, i just think a lot of people are way overstating it. Like "vile cancer".

The deal is crap when you consider Maction is now the 2nd or 3rd best TV viewing option even during mid-week. If we were the main attraction on ESPN, then id be all in.

I agree it's reaching the end of its shelf life as noted but that won't usually be such a problem once it shifts to Tues/Wed as usual. I'm a little confused about the Thursday games too. Thursday would in theory be better for attendance (didn't seem to work out that way) but major conferences have been playing Thursday and Friday games for years.

(10-30-2018 12:08 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:01 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 11:25 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  As a side note I find it funny when I see NIU fans whine about midweek games as I would bet a large amount that they wouldn't have made the Orange Bowl without ESPN exposure.

The argument to me is whether the ESPN deal- which is not for huge money- is still worth it in today's climate of prevalent streaming. I think it still is but the day is rapidly approaching where it won't be due to cord cutting. I do agree that it impacts attendance, i just think a lot of people are way overstating it. Like "vile cancer".

The deal is crap when you consider Maction is now the 2nd or 3rd best TV viewing option even during mid-week. If we were the main attraction on ESPN, then id be all in.

I agree it's reaching the end of its shelf life as noted but that won't usually be such a problem once it shifts to Tues/Wed as usual. I'm a little confused about the Thursday games too. Thursday would in theory be better for attendance (didn't seem to work out that way) but major conferences have been playing Thursday and Friday games for years.

Ideally, I'd like to see MACtion on Tuesday and Wednesday only. There's no use competing with P5 schools on Thur/Fri nights.
I also wish that each MAC team had only one road and one home MACtion game.

(10-30-2018 01:01 PM)WesternSkillet Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:08 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 12:01 PM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 11:25 AM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  As a side note I find it funny when I see NIU fans whine about midweek games as I would bet a large amount that they wouldn't have made the Orange Bowl without ESPN exposure.

The argument to me is whether the ESPN deal- which is not for huge money- is still worth it in today's climate of prevalent streaming. I think it still is but the day is rapidly approaching where it won't be due to cord cutting. I do agree that it impacts attendance, i just think a lot of people are way overstating it. Like "vile cancer".

The deal is crap when you consider Maction is now the 2nd or 3rd best TV viewing option even during mid-week. If we were the main attraction on ESPN, then id be all in.

I agree it's reaching the end of its shelf life as noted but that won't usually be such a problem once it shifts to Tues/Wed as usual. I'm a little confused about the Thursday games too. Thursday would in theory be better for attendance (didn't seem to work out that way) but major conferences have been playing Thursday and Friday games for years.

Ideally, I'd like to see MACtion on Tuesday and Wednesday only. There's no use competing with P5 schools on Thur/Fri nights.
I also wish that each MAC team had only one road and one home MACtion game.

Yea, 2 home and 2 road games on weeknights is excessive, and we've had that basically every year. I probably live nearer to NIU than most alumni but even getting out of work on time I had to rush to get to the games last year, and of course missed the Senior night introductions before the game - I feel bad that the stands are empty for that - does not seem right.

(10-30-2018 08:51 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 08:37 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  The thinking that WMU is young is laughable. We are quite the opposite...
(our 2-deep is quite experienced and not very young either)

Starting O:
3 RS SR
4 seniors
3 JRs
1 FR

Starting D:
1 RS SR
5 SR's
3 JR's
2 SOPH

I agree, this is a very experienced group. The freshmen we play on offense are very good. Reed is stellar. Eleby looks to be quite good too. How much his inexperience will cost us is yet to be determined. He looked pretty comfortable last Thursday, but he came into the game without knowing he would play. We will see how he does against Ohio.

Against Toledo I would have traded our defense for a defense consisting entirely of freshmen, as long as those freshmen had a pulse and were prepared to play.

He did look good but now Ohio can gameplan against him. Will be interesting to watch.

I saw that Toledo game and the wmu defense was nonexistent. Is that typical for this team?


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

(10-30-2018 03:34 PM)Teamduh Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 08:51 AM)brovol Wrote:  

(10-30-2018 08:37 AM)GRBRONCO Wrote:  The thinking that WMU is young is laughable. We are quite the opposite...
(our 2-deep is quite experienced and not very young either)

Starting O:
3 RS SR
4 seniors
3 JRs
1 FR

Starting D:
1 RS SR
5 SR's
3 JR's
2 SOPH

I agree, this is a very experienced group. The freshmen we play on offense are very good. Reed is stellar. Eleby looks to be quite good too. How much his inexperience will cost us is yet to be determined. He looked pretty comfortable last Thursday, but he came into the game without knowing he would play. We will see how he does against Ohio.

Against Toledo I would have traded our defense for a defense consisting entirely of freshmen, as long as those freshmen had a pulse and were prepared to play.

He did look good but now Ohio can gameplan against him. Will be interesting to watch.

I saw that Toledo game and the wmu defense was nonexistent. Is that typical for this team?


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Unfortunately, for most of our game the past two season, yes it has been typical for our D to be poor. I must say though that the defense had bee showing signs of energy and potential in games leading up to Toledo, and actually looked good at times. Some will maintain that those were games against inferior competition, but frankly I didn't think that Toledo looks that dazzling on either side of the ball last Thursday, but rather we just were horrendous on defense, with virtually no energy.

I agree that Ohio will test a young QB. I just hope we don't vanilla down the offense "to help the freshman QB", because that will do just the opposite, and force him into repeated third and long situations, which would be disastrous.

I know, I know...but humor me.

Everyone has talked about a trip to Ford Field as being out of the picture. Is that actually correct mathematically?

I thought if Toledo loses one of their final 3 games (likely NIU, if anyone), NIU loses to Miami, and we beat Ball State...wouldn't that mean a win over NIU in the season finale would give us the MAC West spot?

Toledo would have 3 conference losses, NIU and WMU would each have two with us having the tie-breaker due to head-to-head.

It's based on conference record, not just divisional record or am I completely off on this?

I know we no longer have control of what happens and the above scenario isn't super likely. I also believe UB would make us wish for good old days of the Ohio beat down. But, how does the math play out?