(11-01-2018 07:02 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 03:18 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 02:16 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 02:10 PM)umbluegray Wrote:  

(11-01-2018 12:41 AM)atsKnight Wrote:  So it's better now than it was? What do you think was the cause of that shift?

I don't know that there is a "better" stage. Attacks are attacks.

What do I personally believe was the cause?

I can't point to a specific instance that officially started the culture war against Christianity; rather, I think there has been a progression.

I think American college graduates going to Europe, primarily Germany, in the 1800s imported Marxist philosophy and began the process of entrenching it in our educational institutions.

I think the 1940s SCOTUS beginning to apply the Living Document ideology was key.

I believe the 60s cultural revolution opened the floodgates to radicalism challenging traditional American values and philosophies.


Give this serious consideration and analyze what you think it meant in real world application:

The North American continent underwent a Christian revival knows as The Great Awakening between 1730-1740. This evangelical revival impacted the lives of and institutions of our Founders.

Prior to the Constitutional Convention in 1787 each of the 13 states had their own constitutions.

Those constitutions included text of the Oath of Office. Though they were not boilerplate, they all conveyed the same idea. Note that the examples of these constitutions were established after the Great Awakening and prior to the Revolution and subsequent Constitutional Convention.

Constitution of Delaware; 1776

Quote:ART. 22. Every person who shall be chosen a member of either house, or appointed to any office or place of trust, before taking his seat, or entering upon the execution of his office, shall take the following oath, or affirmation, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath, to wit:
" I, A B. will bear true allegiance to the Delaware State, submit to its constitution and laws, and do no act wittingly whereby the freedom thereof may be prejudiced."
And also make and subscribe the following declaration, to wit:
" I, A B. do profess faith in God the Father, and in Jesus Christ His only Son, and in the Holy Ghost, one God, blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by divine inspiration."
And all officers shall also take an oath of office.

Constitution of Maryland - November 11, 1776

Quote:LV. That every person, appointed to any office of profit or trust, shall, before he enters on the execution thereof, take the following oath; to wit :-" I, A. B., do swear, that I do not hold myself bound in allegiance to the King of Great Britain, and that I will be faithful, and bear true allegiance to the State of Maryland; " and shall also subscribe a declaration of his belief in the Christian religion.

Constitution of Pennsylvania - September 28, 1776

Quote:SECT. 10. A quorum of the house of representatives shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of members elected; and having met and chosen their speaker, shall each of them before they proceed to business take and subscribe, as well the oath or affirmation of fidelity and allegiance hereinafter directed, as the following oath or affirmation, viz:
I do swear (or affirm) that as a member of this assembly, I will not propose or assent to any bill, vote, or resolution, which stall appear to free injurious to the people; nor do or consent to any act or thing whatever, that shall have a tendency to lessen or abridge their rights and privileges, as declared in the constitution of this state; but will in all things conduct myself as a faithful honest representative and guardian of the people, according to the best of only judgment and abilities.
And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz:
I do believe in one God, the creator and governor of the universe, the rewarder of the good and the punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament to be given by Divine inspiration.

Constitution of Vermont - July 8, 1777

Quote:SECTION IX. A quorum of the house of representatives shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of members elected; and having met and chosen their speaker, shall, each of them, before they proceed to business, take and subscribe, as well the oath of fidelity and allegiance herein after directed, as the following oath or affirmation, viz.
" I ____ do solemnly swear, by the ever living God, (or, I do solemnly affirm in the presence of Almighty God) that as a member of this assembly, I will not propose or assent to any bill, vote, or resolution, which shall appear to me injurious to the people; nor do or consent to any act or thing whatever, that shall have a tendency to lessen or abridge their rights and privileges, as declared in the Constitution of this State; but will, in all things' conduct myself as a faithful, honest representative and guardian of the people, according to the best of my judgment and abilities."
And each member, before he takes his seat, shall make and subscribe the following declaration, viz.
" I ____ do believe in one God, the Creator and Governor of the Diverse, the rewarder of the good and punisher of the wicked. And I do acknowledge the scriptures of the old and new testament to be given by divine inspiration, and own and profess the protestant religion."
And no further or other religious test shall ever, hereafter, be required of any civil officer or magistrate in this State.

As territories became states after the adoption of the Constitution you see state constitutions including similar sentiment in their oaths of office.

Anyway, every single Founder appointed to the Constitutional Convention (they were not elected to represent their states, they were appointed) took the oath of office required by their state constitution.

Every Founder professed to be a Christian. PERIOD.

They were of the mindset that the states had power and that the US Constitution was a framework that bound the various states together for certain things -- very specific things. Only those items specifically defined in the Constitution were allocated to the federal government. All other powers were left to the states.

Quote:X - Rights of the States under Constitution
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

The Founders did not intend for the Constitution to rip Christianity from the fabric of American life. In fact, they actively promoted it.

The Northwest Ordinance
Washington's Farewell Address
Numerous writings of the various Founding Fathers
State court rulings
SCOTUS rulings

Throughout this nation's history Christianity was a primary unifying agent among the people. This does not mean every person was a Christian. It did not mean every person was required to be a Christian.

It does mean that Christianity was part of the foundation and fabric of this nation, it's people and it's governing institutions.

In the decision to Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States, 143 U.S. 457 (1892) Justice David Brewer shared a summarized history of the US explaining that Organic Utterances tell us America is a Christian nation.


Prayer was a daily part of children's lives at school until the 1960s. From the foundation of this nation from Christian men until the 1960s Christianity was a part of daily life not only personally but also in the Public Square.

Gradual changes over time (boiling the frog) tend to hide things from us. There are a few examples that, to me, encapsulate the changes in society and provide sharp contrasts.

I grew up in the 70s watching a lot of 50s and 60s reruns.

In I Love Lucy you never heard cursing. If a scene was shot in Ricky and Lucy's bedroom (and they were a married couple, mind you) you saw twin beds. If they were in bed they shown in those separate beds and dressed in pajamas. If Lucy was in bed and Ricky was sitting on her bed it was required that one foot had to maintain constant contact with the floor.

Today, it is quite common for characters to curse, to discuss sexually explicit topics, and to be in various stages of undress if not nude.


This is simply evidence to show where we were compared to where we are.

All in the Family in the 70s was considered groundbreaking because Archie Bunker said the "d" word.

And now among many who claim conservative values we can't keep the "f" word out of a chat room. I'd say that frog was now stew.

Nice set of posts Blue&Gray, but you left out that in the end Meathead was also unfaithful to Gloria, thereby holding up another Marxist value, the devaluation of the family. But then pseudo-intellectuals do tend to be self absorbed worthless navel gazers.

You know Marx! You're correct, the devaluation of the family is another tactic.

I had forgotten that about Meathead.


Looking back, I don't think Rob Reiner had to do much acting to portray Meathead. I think he was actually playing himself.

Rob got it honestly from his father Carl Reiner but it was the writer who was a self proclaiming unabashed far leftist, Norman Lear.

So, much like the left of today they focused on highlighting meatheads virtuousness while running down Archie as the embodiment of a bitter deplorable, and failing to recognize that they were creating what for them turned out to be an anti-hero, half of the masses ultimately ended up loving Archie. Where have we seen this recently?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articl...38535.html

Fact checkers being misleading.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/n...835286002/ Article fits the theme of this thread.

"...No matter the size of any new Democratic House majority, the conference will contain several new members who reflect the angry liberal mob, which seems to make up the Democratic Party's core. Nearly 80 percent of Democrats told CNN’s pollsters in September that Trump should be impeached, and more than six million people have signed a petition demanding it.

If presumptive House Speaker Nancy Pelosi travels that road (something her base will demand), it will be another log on a political overreach fire the Democrats stoke daily. Time and again, Democrats are handed issues with which they could truly damage Trump but fail by acting crazy.


...At a dinner earlier this year among some experienced political hands, I posited, because of the internal struggles looming for the Democrats, that Trump had better than a 50 percent chance of being re-elected. The table erupted in laughter. My guffawing dinner companions might be right — a recession could hit, or, less likely, special counsel Robert Mueller could drop a bombshell. Either could sink the incumbent president.

But many Republicans couldn't fathom Obama being re-elected in 2012, either. And it's starting to feel like a rerun in which Trump gets the last laugh."