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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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Women's Field Hockey
Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.
10-29-2018 07:14 AM
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cmett003 Offline
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RE: Women's Field Hockey
I dont pay too much attention to FH but if I see something on twitter its usually something like "ODU out shoots Villanova 24-6, but falls 3-1". They always outshoot their opponent but some how lose. Its very annoying.
10-29-2018 07:50 AM
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12thmonarch Offline
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RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.
10-29-2018 09:27 AM
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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Another WS screw up !!
10-29-2018 10:21 AM
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ODU True Blue Online
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RE: Women's Field Hockey
It is all about the Benjamins. We don't have enough and the Power 5 schools have it in abundance. We will never again be considered a high major in Field Hockey.

We can't compete with the $$$$ and exposure that Power 5 schools get in all areas. This is an instance that proves trickle down economics does indeed work. The P5 get the money and exposure in FB, Men's and Women's BB and that trickles down to all the vast majority of their other sports.
10-29-2018 10:23 AM
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Nukesquad Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 10:23 AM)ODU True Blue Wrote:  It is all about the Benjamins. We don't have enough and the Power 5 schools have it in abundance. We will never again be considered a high major in Field Hockey.

We can't compete with the $$$$ and exposure that Power 5 schools get in all areas. This is an instance that proves trickle down economics does indeed work. The P5 get the money and exposure in FB, Men's and Women's BB and that trickles down to all the vast majority of their other sports.

This is correct. ODU was the 1st to the party regarding women's college sports, and was able to grab the best athletes. Now that everyone is now in, the P5 will continue their monopoly. The way FH is structured, ODU can definitely still be a top-25 contender, but "dominance" is out of the question (regardless of the coach/AD/president)
10-29-2018 12:34 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).
10-29-2018 12:39 PM
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12thmonarch Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).

Let me explain. We used to go neck and neck and split with UNC/MD(The only programs that can compare to us historically) and pretty much had our way with Wake Forests/Dukes/Syracuses and Connecticut's of the world other than the occasional slip ups. We have slid ourselves down to a level where so called Liberty's, James Madison's and even the goddamned Villanova's and William and Marys of the world can beat us on any day. That is what i call crappy. While UNC's and UMD's have their P5 resources we never had issues when we were competing with them with a good coach but i don't know what to attribute this slip up to. Again this slip up seem to have started during the waning phase of Beth Anders so i really don't know what exactly is the cause of it.
10-29-2018 01:47 PM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 01:47 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).

Let me explain. We used to go neck and neck and split with UNC/MD(The only programs that can compare to us historically) and pretty much had our way with Wake Forests/Dukes/Syracuses and Connecticut's of the world other than the occasional slip ups. We have slid ourselves down to a level where so called Liberty's, James Madison's and even the goddamned Villanova's and William and Marys of the world can beat us on any day. That is what i call crappy. While UNC's and UMD's have their P5 resources we never had issues when we were competing with them with a good coach but i don't know what to attribute this slip up to. Again this slip up seem to have started during the waning phase of Beth Anders so i really don't know what exactly is the cause of it.

You could say the exact same thing about women's basketball too.
10-29-2018 02:28 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 01:47 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).

Let me explain. We used to go neck and neck and split with UNC/MD(The only programs that can compare to us historically) and pretty much had our way with Wake Forests/Dukes/Syracuses and Connecticut's of the world other than the occasional slip ups. We have slid ourselves down to a level where so called Liberty's, James Madison's and even the goddamned Villanova's and William and Marys of the world can beat us on any day. That is what i call crappy. While UNC's and UMD's have their P5 resources we never had issues when we were competing with them with a good coach but i don't know what to attribute this slip up to. Again this slip up seem to have started during the waning phase of Beth Anders so i really don't know what exactly is the cause of it.

You're acting as though ODU field hockey is the only object in motion and every other program is incapable of movement. Why isn't it possible that Liberty has become a better program? Or William & Mary? JMU won a national title in the 1990s and have had good teams recently, so it's not like losing to some D-II callup.

Same thing with women's basketball, with this added problem: Once larger schools spent more time and effort on the sport, whatever advantage ODU had disappeared, and eventually there's nothing even the best coaches can do to overcome it. Do you think it's a coincidence that Louisiana Tech and Stephen F. Austin, who like ODU were women's powerhouses a generation ago, now aren't anywhere near it?

Now I grant you, losing at home to a Villanova program that hasn't finished above .500 in 10 years with a Big East tournament bid on the line is a disturbing development and, one hopes, a wake-up call. But if you fully expect ODU to be a regular national-title contender, I don't think that's a reasonable expectation even in the best of circumstances and everything going the program's way. Short of joining the ACC and getting that P5 bank.

EDIT TO ADD: As for resources, two things to consider: 1. The resource gap is far wider in this era of huge TV contracts than it was when ODU was strong in women's basketball and field hockey. 2. It took a long time for most major athletic programs to pay more than lip service to women's basketball (with exceptions like Tennessee, UConn and Texas). But once they did, the women's Top 25 started looking a lot more like the men's Top 25. While I doubt ACC and Big Ten schools are lavishing money on their field hockey programs, I'm sure their budgets have risen a lot more than ODU's in the past 20 years, just because they have a lot more to spend.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2018 03:00 PM by Cyniclone.)
10-29-2018 02:57 PM
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Post: #11
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 01:47 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).

Let me explain. We used to go neck and neck and split with UNC/MD(The only programs that can compare to us historically) and pretty much had our way with Wake Forests/Dukes/Syracuses and Connecticut's of the world other than the occasional slip ups. We have slid ourselves down to a level where so called Liberty's, James Madison's and even the goddamned Villanova's and William and Marys of the world can beat us on any day. That is what i call crappy. While UNC's and UMD's have their P5 resources we never had issues when we were competing with them with a good coach but i don't know what to attribute this slip up to. Again this slip up seem to have started during the waning phase of Beth Anders so i really don't know what exactly is the cause of it.

You're acting as though ODU field hockey is the only object in motion and every other program is incapable of movement. Why isn't it possible that Liberty has become a better program? Or William & Mary? JMU won a national title in the 1990s and have had good teams recently, so it's not like losing to some D-II callup.

Same thing with women's basketball, with this added problem: Once larger schools spent more time and effort on the sport, whatever advantage ODU had disappeared, and eventually there's nothing even the best coaches can do to overcome it. Do you think it's a coincidence that Louisiana Tech and Stephen F. Austin, who like ODU were women's powerhouses a generation ago, now aren't anywhere near it?

Now I grant you, losing at home to a Villanova program that hasn't finished above .500 in 10 years with a Big East tournament bid on the line is a disturbing development and, one hopes, a wake-up call. But if you fully expect ODU to be a regular national-title contender, I don't think that's a reasonable expectation even in the best of circumstances and everything going the program's way. Short of joining the ACC and getting that P5 bank.

EDIT TO ADD: As for resources, two things to consider: 1. The resource gap is far wider in this era of huge TV contracts than it was when ODU was strong in women's basketball and field hockey. 2. It took a long time for most major athletic programs to pay more than lip service to women's basketball (with exceptions like Tennessee, UConn and Texas). But once they did, the women's Top 25 started looking a lot more like the men's Top 25. While I doubt ACC and Big Ten schools are lavishing money on their field hockey programs, I'm sure their budgets have risen a lot more than ODU's in the past 20 years, just because they have a lot more to spend.

This right here. Their budgets are significantly higher than ODU's. Heck, Liberty is walking proof on what you can achieve (in most/all sports) when your budget is astronomical. If they want to compete, then that'll need to increase that. However, this is also true with FB. With overall budget not changing/increasing, which sports do you choose?
10-29-2018 03:09 PM
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ODU DAD Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Women's Field Hockey
Delaware (CAA) won the 2016 Women's FH national championship 3-2 over UNC so it can still be done. Being national title contenders year in and year out not so much because of most of the reasons stated above.
10-29-2018 03:19 PM
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12thmonarch Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 01:47 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 07:14 AM)Mr.BigBlue Wrote:  Thoughts ? Seems like we folded down the stretch once we got into Big East Play. We also had some HORRIBLE losses. Now the season is over and we don't make the NCAAs again. Time for a change ? This is a women's sport we should be able to maintain a national prominence in.

I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).

Let me explain. We used to go neck and neck and split with UNC/MD(The only programs that can compare to us historically) and pretty much had our way with Wake Forests/Dukes/Syracuses and Connecticut's of the world other than the occasional slip ups. We have slid ourselves down to a level where so called Liberty's, James Madison's and even the goddamned Villanova's and William and Marys of the world can beat us on any day. That is what i call crappy. While UNC's and UMD's have their P5 resources we never had issues when we were competing with them with a good coach but i don't know what to attribute this slip up to. Again this slip up seem to have started during the waning phase of Beth Anders so i really don't know what exactly is the cause of it.

You're acting as though ODU field hockey is the only object in motion and every other program is incapable of movement. Why isn't it possible that Liberty has become a better program? Or William & Mary? JMU won a national title in the 1990s and have had good teams recently, so it's not like losing to some D-II callup.

Same thing with women's basketball, with this added problem: Once larger schools spent more time and effort on the sport, whatever advantage ODU had disappeared, and eventually there's nothing even the best coaches can do to overcome it. Do you think it's a coincidence that Louisiana Tech and Stephen F. Austin, who like ODU were women's powerhouses a generation ago, now aren't anywhere near it?

Now I grant you, losing at home to a Villanova program that hasn't finished above .500 in 10 years with a Big East tournament bid on the line is a disturbing development and, one hopes, a wake-up call. But if you fully expect ODU to be a regular national-title contender, I don't think that's a reasonable expectation even in the best of circumstances and everything going the program's way. Short of joining the ACC and getting that P5 bank.

EDIT TO ADD: As for resources, two things to consider: 1. The resource gap is far wider in this era of huge TV contracts than it was when ODU was strong in women's basketball and field hockey. 2. It took a long time for most major athletic programs to pay more than lip service to women's basketball (with exceptions like Tennessee, UConn and Texas). But once they did, the women's Top 25 started looking a lot more like the men's Top 25. While I doubt ACC and Big Ten schools are lavishing money on their field hockey programs, I'm sure their budgets have risen a lot more than ODU's in the past 20 years, just because they have a lot more to spend.

That is not what i am saying. Everybody has their movement i.e progressions or regressions and we seem to have taken the later while these nobodies started beating us. I don't know if i can say this but we used to compete for national title almost on a yearly basis, do i expect us to win national title every year ? hell no while that is a good goal to have that is not realistic but i expect a legendary program to not fall like we did. I know ODU's, LT's of the women's BB world are no longer competitive but this is a completely different story than Field Hockey. Spending and return on FH is very less compared to BB and while there are resources that we lack when compared to ACC and B10 we should be better than JMU's, Liberty's, Georgetown's, VCU's, Richmond's, WM's and Villanova's of the world. If we start losing to DII call ups then we will become the example of how not to fall. I hope that day never comes but saying FH is doing fine is straight out just lying to ourselves. Again that's my opinion.
10-29-2018 03:24 PM
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Cyniclone Offline
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Post: #14
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 03:24 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 01:47 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 09:27 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  I used to follow them even though its not a primary sport for me and i can honestly say this from the limited time i have been following them. They went from beating the then top contenders like UNC and UMD to losing to crappy programs like JMU and Liberty and what not. ODU used to be the blue bloods of field hockey when Beth Anders was at the helm and things started slipping during the end of Beth Anders career at ODU and since then we have never been on a upward trajectory. Sad state of the program.

Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).

Let me explain. We used to go neck and neck and split with UNC/MD(The only programs that can compare to us historically) and pretty much had our way with Wake Forests/Dukes/Syracuses and Connecticut's of the world other than the occasional slip ups. We have slid ourselves down to a level where so called Liberty's, James Madison's and even the goddamned Villanova's and William and Marys of the world can beat us on any day. That is what i call crappy. While UNC's and UMD's have their P5 resources we never had issues when we were competing with them with a good coach but i don't know what to attribute this slip up to. Again this slip up seem to have started during the waning phase of Beth Anders so i really don't know what exactly is the cause of it.

You're acting as though ODU field hockey is the only object in motion and every other program is incapable of movement. Why isn't it possible that Liberty has become a better program? Or William & Mary? JMU won a national title in the 1990s and have had good teams recently, so it's not like losing to some D-II callup.

Same thing with women's basketball, with this added problem: Once larger schools spent more time and effort on the sport, whatever advantage ODU had disappeared, and eventually there's nothing even the best coaches can do to overcome it. Do you think it's a coincidence that Louisiana Tech and Stephen F. Austin, who like ODU were women's powerhouses a generation ago, now aren't anywhere near it?

Now I grant you, losing at home to a Villanova program that hasn't finished above .500 in 10 years with a Big East tournament bid on the line is a disturbing development and, one hopes, a wake-up call. But if you fully expect ODU to be a regular national-title contender, I don't think that's a reasonable expectation even in the best of circumstances and everything going the program's way. Short of joining the ACC and getting that P5 bank.

EDIT TO ADD: As for resources, two things to consider: 1. The resource gap is far wider in this era of huge TV contracts than it was when ODU was strong in women's basketball and field hockey. 2. It took a long time for most major athletic programs to pay more than lip service to women's basketball (with exceptions like Tennessee, UConn and Texas). But once they did, the women's Top 25 started looking a lot more like the men's Top 25. While I doubt ACC and Big Ten schools are lavishing money on their field hockey programs, I'm sure their budgets have risen a lot more than ODU's in the past 20 years, just because they have a lot more to spend.

That is not what i am saying. Everybody has their movement i.e progressions or regressions and we seem to have taken the later while these nobodies started beating us. I don't know if i can say this but we used to compete for national title almost on a yearly basis, do i expect us to win national title every year ? hell no while that is a good goal to have that is not realistic but i expect a legendary program to not fall like we did. I know ODU's, LT's of the women's BB world are no longer competitive but this is a completely different story than Field Hockey. Spending and return on FH is very less compared to BB and while there are resources that we lack when compared to ACC and B10 we should be better than JMU's, Liberty's, Georgetown's, VCU's, Richmond's, WM's and Villanova's of the world. If we start losing to DII call ups then we will become the example of how not to fall. I hope that day never comes but saying FH is doing fine is straight out just lying to ourselves. Again that's my opinion.

See, you contradict your first sentence with your second. You dismiss Liberty, W&M and JMU as "nobodies" based on you memories of them I guess. All those "nobodies" have been ranked, this and/or recent years. But apparently they beat ODU based not on what they did, but what ODU didn't do.

The titles in ODU's history are nice and will always be a part of the field hockey story, but realistically, ODU is a mid-major program just like the schools you say ODU should always be better than. In the 80s and 90s? Yes. But today? Those titles don't get you recruits or wins. Expecting that ODU should always be better than those programs based on what happened 20 years ago or more is going to lead to disappointment, just like expecting women's basketball to return to their glory days. It's a different world.
10-29-2018 03:41 PM
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12thmonarch Offline
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Post: #15
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 03:41 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 03:24 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 02:57 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 01:47 PM)12thmonarch Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 12:39 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Liberty's ranked in the top 20 in the coaches poll. When they lost to JMU last season, the Dukes were No. 15 (both teams were ranked when ODU beat them 3-0 this year, but JMU hit the skids after). So not sure where "crappy programs" comes from.

ODU's still got a solid program, though I agree in part with ODU True Blue that the disparity in revenue between the power-conference schools and schools like ODU makes it difficult to stay competitive consistently with them (though I think with the right players it's still possible to get back to the upper reaches, it just takes more work and, let's face it, luck to consistently beat UNC/Duke/Virginia/Maryland).

Let me explain. We used to go neck and neck and split with UNC/MD(The only programs that can compare to us historically) and pretty much had our way with Wake Forests/Dukes/Syracuses and Connecticut's of the world other than the occasional slip ups. We have slid ourselves down to a level where so called Liberty's, James Madison's and even the goddamned Villanova's and William and Marys of the world can beat us on any day. That is what i call crappy. While UNC's and UMD's have their P5 resources we never had issues when we were competing with them with a good coach but i don't know what to attribute this slip up to. Again this slip up seem to have started during the waning phase of Beth Anders so i really don't know what exactly is the cause of it.

You're acting as though ODU field hockey is the only object in motion and every other program is incapable of movement. Why isn't it possible that Liberty has become a better program? Or William & Mary? JMU won a national title in the 1990s and have had good teams recently, so it's not like losing to some D-II callup.

Same thing with women's basketball, with this added problem: Once larger schools spent more time and effort on the sport, whatever advantage ODU had disappeared, and eventually there's nothing even the best coaches can do to overcome it. Do you think it's a coincidence that Louisiana Tech and Stephen F. Austin, who like ODU were women's powerhouses a generation ago, now aren't anywhere near it?

Now I grant you, losing at home to a Villanova program that hasn't finished above .500 in 10 years with a Big East tournament bid on the line is a disturbing development and, one hopes, a wake-up call. But if you fully expect ODU to be a regular national-title contender, I don't think that's a reasonable expectation even in the best of circumstances and everything going the program's way. Short of joining the ACC and getting that P5 bank.

EDIT TO ADD: As for resources, two things to consider: 1. The resource gap is far wider in this era of huge TV contracts than it was when ODU was strong in women's basketball and field hockey. 2. It took a long time for most major athletic programs to pay more than lip service to women's basketball (with exceptions like Tennessee, UConn and Texas). But once they did, the women's Top 25 started looking a lot more like the men's Top 25. While I doubt ACC and Big Ten schools are lavishing money on their field hockey programs, I'm sure their budgets have risen a lot more than ODU's in the past 20 years, just because they have a lot more to spend.

That is not what i am saying. Everybody has their movement i.e progressions or regressions and we seem to have taken the later while these nobodies started beating us. I don't know if i can say this but we used to compete for national title almost on a yearly basis, do i expect us to win national title every year ? hell no while that is a good goal to have that is not realistic but i expect a legendary program to not fall like we did. I know ODU's, LT's of the women's BB world are no longer competitive but this is a completely different story than Field Hockey. Spending and return on FH is very less compared to BB and while there are resources that we lack when compared to ACC and B10 we should be better than JMU's, Liberty's, Georgetown's, VCU's, Richmond's, WM's and Villanova's of the world. If we start losing to DII call ups then we will become the example of how not to fall. I hope that day never comes but saying FH is doing fine is straight out just lying to ourselves. Again that's my opinion.

See, you contradict your first sentence with your second. You dismiss Liberty, W&M and JMU as "nobodies" based on you memories of them I guess. All those "nobodies" have been ranked, this and/or recent years. But apparently they beat ODU based not on what they did, but what ODU didn't do.

The titles in ODU's history are nice and will always be a part of the field hockey story, but realistically, ODU is a mid-major program just like the schools you say ODU should always be better than. In the 80s and 90s? Yes. But today? Those titles don't get you recruits or wins. Expecting that ODU should always be better than those programs based on what happened 20 years ago or more is going to lead to disappointment, just like expecting women's basketball to return to their glory days. It's a different world.

No not really. Looks like there's a disconnect. We moved back(by not doing what it is required to stay at the top, which i don't know what it is to be honest since i am not a hardcore follower of that sport), like really back and they (i mean nobodies) moved ahead and caught up with us and are now ranked ahead of us and are beating us. And you are correct about the second part this is purely our doing rather than what others have done. Had we stayed at the top of the game we wouldn't be having this conversation. I am not really contradicting what i said but simply stating we have let our selves to be complacent and fall down to a state that we now only have trophies to show for what used to be one of the top sports at ODU. Anyways that's just my opinion.
10-29-2018 03:50 PM
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Mr.BigBlue Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Women's Field Hockey
(10-29-2018 03:19 PM)ODU DAD Wrote:  Delaware (CAA) won the 2016 Women's FH national championship 3-2 over UNC so it can still be done. Being national title contenders year in and year out not so much because of most of the reasons stated above.

EXACTLY ! I don't think with the facilities we have and the history we have we should be in this situation.
10-29-2018 09:15 PM
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