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How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #1
How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
Came across this and found it interesting. http://blog.acton.org/archives/104409-ho...razil.html

Its a short article. That's why I didn't post a snippet.
10-27-2018 11:41 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Online
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
The birth of liberation theology--the Communist Party at prayer. Jeremiah Wright was a liberation theology pastor.
10-27-2018 11:58 AM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
Billy Graham had a much simpler explanation. He said that not everyone has experienced the perceived "winning-side" of Christianity and Capitalism, even to the point where those two things were used against people. When that happens people are going to either:

1. Come up with their own versions of both.
2. Refuse both.
3. Or some combination of those.

These things don't just show up for the hell of it.
10-27-2018 03:38 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
Does anyone know if the new Catholic pope embraces liberation theology?


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10-27-2018 04:09 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
(10-27-2018 04:09 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Does anyone know if the new Catholic pope embraces liberation theology?


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I think so.
10-27-2018 04:47 PM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
(10-27-2018 04:09 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Does anyone know if the new Catholic pope embraces liberation theology?


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He certainly does not embrace the Bible as the Word of God or the teaching of salvation through Christ alone that the entire NT is based on.
(This post was last modified: 10-29-2018 02:16 AM by ericsrevenge76.)
10-28-2018 07:07 PM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
(10-27-2018 04:09 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Does anyone know if the new Catholic pope embraces liberation theology?


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He's a self avowed socialist.

Marx was patently not Christian. He viewed religion, especially religions that believe in a better afterlife, as what he called the opiate of the masses. He used that term because people on opium simply don't care about the here and now, unless they are out of opium. Those who believed in a better life to come, weren't motivated to work for revolution. So Marx was an atheist who saw religion as an excuse not to fight for material goods in this life.

Christian Socialism is different in that it pools resources to help those who are disenfranchised (widows and orphans in ancient Near Eastern culture), the sick (who like lepers were frequently quarantined away from populated areas), and the poor (who lacked land and in antiquity were frequently in poor health limiting their value as laborers), and foreigners who were passing through your country (and therefore ignorant of its law and easily taken advantage of).

The Apostle Paul once told the people that "If there were any among you that would not work, let them not eat." He was speaking particularly of those who thought Christ was coming again any moment and used that as an excuse to abandon their fields and trades and do nothing.

So Christian Socialism emphasized pooling resources to take care of those who couldn't work, or had no rights to ownership of property, and who needed the love and care of the community of faith.

That's totally different from the state taking a % of what you earn to redistribute the wealth in ways that permit them to remain in power. And the emphasis is also totally different.

State socialism focuses on property and wealth redistribution. Christian socialism focuses upon the relationship between the believers. They see themselves as a family and what is shared is what is needed for all to live as one. It is not a redistribution of wealth but rather a tangible display of agape love.

Christian Marxism is an oxymoron. Marx denied Christ and forced property redistribution, and Christ denied coercion as well as the emphasis of material goods and commanded love. So the title puts mutually exclusive terms together. You are either a Christian or you are not. You are either a Marxist or you are not. There is no both!
10-29-2018 04:23 PM
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nomad2u2001 Offline
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
(10-29-2018 04:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-27-2018 04:09 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Does anyone know if the new Catholic pope embraces liberation theology?


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He's a self avowed socialist.

Marx was patently not Christian. He viewed religion, especially religions that believe in a better afterlife, as what he called the opiate of the masses. He used that term because people on opium simply don't care about the here and now, unless they are out of opium. Those who believed in a better life to come, weren't motivated to work for revolution. So Marx was an atheist who saw religion as an excuse not to fight for material goods in this life.

Christian Socialism is different in that it pools resources to help those who are disenfranchised (widows and orphans in ancient Near Eastern culture), the sick (who like lepers were frequently quarantined away from populated areas), and the poor (who lacked land and in antiquity were frequently in poor health limiting their value as laborers), and foreigners who were passing through your country (and therefore ignorant of its law and easily taken advantage of).

The Apostle Paul once told the people that "If there were any among you that would not work, let them not eat." He was speaking particularly of those who thought Christ was coming again any moment and used that as an excuse to abandon their fields and trades and do nothing.

So Christian Socialism emphasized pooling resources to take care of those who couldn't work, or had no rights to ownership of property, and who needed the love and care of the community of faith.

That's totally different from the state taking a % of what you earn to redistribute the wealth in ways that permit them to remain in power. And the emphasis is also totally different.

State socialism focuses on property and wealth redistribution. Christian socialism focuses upon the relationship between the believers. They see themselves as a family and what is shared is what is needed for all to live as one. It is not a redistribution of wealth but rather a tangible display of agape love.

Christian Marxism is an oxymoron. Marx denied Christ and forced property redistribution, and Christ denied coercion as well as the emphasis of material goods and commanded love. So the title puts mutually exclusive terms together. You are either a Christian or you are not. You are either a Marxist or you are not. There is no both!

Why’d you need to type all that to say he wasn’t a Christian? All you needed were 3 words: He was Jewish.
10-30-2018 05:54 AM
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JRsec Offline
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Post: #9
RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
(10-30-2018 05:54 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  
(10-29-2018 04:23 PM)JRsec Wrote:  
(10-27-2018 04:09 PM)Jjoey52 Wrote:  Does anyone know if the new Catholic pope embraces liberation theology?


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He's a self avowed socialist.

Marx was patently not Christian. He viewed religion, especially religions that believe in a better afterlife, as what he called the opiate of the masses. He used that term because people on opium simply don't care about the here and now, unless they are out of opium. Those who believed in a better life to come, weren't motivated to work for revolution. So Marx was an atheist who saw religion as an excuse not to fight for material goods in this life.

Christian Socialism is different in that it pools resources to help those who are disenfranchised (widows and orphans in ancient Near Eastern culture), the sick (who like lepers were frequently quarantined away from populated areas), and the poor (who lacked land and in antiquity were frequently in poor health limiting their value as laborers), and foreigners who were passing through your country (and therefore ignorant of its law and easily taken advantage of).

The Apostle Paul once told the people that "If there were any among you that would not work, let them not eat." He was speaking particularly of those who thought Christ was coming again any moment and used that as an excuse to abandon their fields and trades and do nothing.

So Christian Socialism emphasized pooling resources to take care of those who couldn't work, or had no rights to ownership of property, and who needed the love and care of the community of faith.

That's totally different from the state taking a % of what you earn to redistribute the wealth in ways that permit them to remain in power. And the emphasis is also totally different.

State socialism focuses on property and wealth redistribution. Christian socialism focuses upon the relationship between the believers. They see themselves as a family and what is shared is what is needed for all to live as one. It is not a redistribution of wealth but rather a tangible display of agape love.

Christian Marxism is an oxymoron. Marx denied Christ and forced property redistribution, and Christ denied coercion as well as the emphasis of material goods and commanded love. So the title puts mutually exclusive terms together. You are either a Christian or you are not. You are either a Marxist or you are not. There is no both!

Why’d you need to type all that to say he wasn’t a Christian? All you needed were 3 words: He was Jewish.

Marx was born to a Jewish family. He wasn't a practicing Jew and he denounced faith in God. Jewish people who practice their faith definitely believe in God. Marx was an atheist.

The real irony in all of this is that Darwin is an icon of communists because Darwin's theories on evolution helped 19th century people to dismiss religious faith and place faith in science. However Darwin's principles focused on the evolution that occurs when the most adaptable and fit of a species survives. In Darwinian terms people who failed to thrive would be scene as those whose gene pool needed to cease. Therefore any form of socialism or communism that sustained the weaker elements of the gene pool would have been seen as counterproductive to the species.

So the icon the communists turned to to support their arguments actually presented a thesis that would have found their system illogical and counterproductive.
(This post was last modified: 10-30-2018 01:32 PM by JRsec.)
10-30-2018 01:31 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #10
RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
(10-27-2018 03:38 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Billy Graham had a much simpler explanation. He said that not everyone has experienced the perceived "winning-side" of Christianity and Capitalism, even to the point where those two things were used against people. When that happens people are going to either:

1. Come up with their own versions of both.
2. Refuse both.
3. Or some combination of those.

These things don't just show up for the hell of it.

It's the same thing with capitalism.

There's three groups that can be in control of a corporation:
1) Wealthy heirs who inherited their position
2) government officials
3) professional managers (either the CEO or the managers of institutional funds that own the most shares)

In most of the world, the economy is completely dominated by a combination of the first two.

In practice, the first two operate similarly because the person in charge can not be fired. The only way they can be fired is if they go out of business. As a result, they always favor laws that discourage new competitors from entering their business. That's why politics in Southern Europe and Latin America is dominated by swings between Crony Capitalism (wealthy heirs) and socialism (government officials). They don't know about the third option because it literally does not exist in their country.


The only countries in the world where professional managers are the majority are the USA, UK, Japan, Australia, New Zealand, the Netherlands, and Ireland. (Canada is almost there, but half of the publicly traded companies in Canada are controlled by wealthy heirs through complex pyramid structures that would be outlawed in the UK and taxed to death in the USA)
10-30-2018 02:13 PM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #11
How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
Things should get very interesting around the Vatican with a Marxist pope.


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10-30-2018 04:07 PM
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jaaaasonl Offline
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How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
There is a growing number of popular modern "evangelicals" who embrace many marxist and/or socialist ideals. What is interesting and curious to me is factoring in those involved in the recent ecumenical movement...which, at its heart, is socialist. (From Rick Warren to Kenneth Copeland and many in-between, the ecumenical movement has swept across some parts of evangelicalism.)

Calvinist/Reformed darling Tim Keller is the most outspoken on the subject of Marxism, but if you watch closely what certain other prominent members of Keller's Gospel Coalition are saying...there is more agreement among them than one might expect...but few are bold enough to openly espouse and accept the label of socialist or marxist.

As a minister myself, I see other trends creeping in as well...such as adopting leftist verbiage and causes into mainstream evangelicalism. At the very least, it is interesting to observe from the "inside."

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11-05-2018 12:07 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
(11-05-2018 12:07 AM)jaaaasonl Wrote:  There is a growing number of popular modern "evangelicals" who embrace many marxist and/or socialist ideals. What is interesting and curious to me is factoring in those involved in the recent ecumenical movement...which, at its heart, is socialist. (From Rick Warren to Kenneth Copeland and many in-between, the ecumenical movement has swept across some parts of evangelicalism.)

Calvinist/Reformed darling Tim Keller is the most outspoken on the subject of Marxism, but if you watch closely what certain other prominent members of Keller's Gospel Coalition are saying...there is more agreement among them than one might expect...but few are bold enough to openly espouse and accept the label of socialist or marxist.

As a minister myself, I see other trends creeping in as well...such as adopting leftist verbiage and causes into mainstream evangelicalism. At the very least, it is interesting to observe from the "inside."

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As I said in my post "evangelical" is now used to cover a very broad spectrum indeed.

Have you heard of COCU? Covenant on Churches Uniting. It was a ecumenical movement from the late 80's through the 90's and part of it is still around I'm sure another a new acronym. The basic concept was to close duplicated churches by cross assigning clergy from the Presbyterian USA churches, the United Methodist Churches, and the Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America. What it was in reality was a way of funding many leftist objectives since COCU would have been centered in Washington D.C. and under the auspices of the World Council on Churches. The idea was that by having a union the trust agreements governing the use of the local church properties would be consolidated and duplicated properties sold with the money not going to the individual denomination but rather to the umbrella grouping COCU where the funds could be conveniently siphoned off to what ever acronym group best disguised their objectives.

It was billed as a way to better utilize ordained clergy coming from mainline denominations at a time when clergy were in much shorter supply. When informed regional groupings of the denominations involved rejected the idea, seminaries became the breeding ground for the future resurrection of this idea in different iterations.

Many denominations went through a phase of signing new trust agreements with their churches in the 2000's under the guise of whatever story their gullible congregations would believe. Those that didn't fall for it but who questioned their growth were encouraged to rename their churches, which of course involved a new trust agreement.

This process was all designed to place full control of property in the hands of the denominations regardless of the past stipulations of denominations solidly adhering to their own polity and most of the new documents set up conditions whereby the denomination could claim the property. To put this into perspective there is literally billions of dollars worth of commercial properties tied up presently as non-profit zoning. Take your less successful congregations and impose upon them stiffer financial obligations to the denomination and when they can't afford to pay the church may be closed and the property sold, not by the local congregation who built it, but by the denomination.

No longer are they bound by old polity to teach and preach only from the Bible, to stand for traditional families or family values, or to offer any form of what even the most novice of the congregants would hold to be more conservative Christian values. They don't even have to hold with the "Divinity of Christ". In the past with old trust agreements if they violated these the congregants could rescind their trust, keep their property, and become an independent denomination. No longer is that the case. The old trust agreements were summed up in less than 5 pages (many less than 3), and were simple and straightforward. Not any more. Some now are 50 or more pages in length and have buried clauses in them with terse legal verbiage and they have that for a reason.

So my friend, the bureaucratic agencies of mainline denominations have been in a property and money grab for decades. In part to fund pensions and in other cases to milk the revenue of God's people and to divert that funding to their own alien agendas.

Now try to explain that to the average congregation and they will stare blankly at you like you have 3 heads and single horn. Only when they suffer the affects of this do they grasp it, and then if it happens to one congregation here or there the others think that it will never happen to them and if you can't trust your church who can you trust?

I say give your tithe to the widows, orphans, poor, sick, and sojourner within your gates as we were commanded to do, and let the churches that Satan has stolen fend for themselves. When you give directly to those in need they always ask the same question. Why? There's your invitation for a testimony. Christ built no buildings and sent his people out to minister to others at no cost and individually.

Constantine urged public worship, forbid meetings in secret, and took part of their collections to furnish his military campaigns. He also made the priests (like David did in antiquity) the employee of the state. Europe revisited this after WWII and is dead spiritually speaking. H.W. Bush tried to get a grasp on it with the 1000 points of light and if you took that funding then the government could tell you what your polity would become.

Faith in Christ is free, work for his people is not but it is a responsibility to be born by all believers. Having a hired gun priest or preacher so you can sit in the pew when you feel like it and pay somebody else to handle your Christian obligations has been the stuff of huckters ever since. it isn't Christianity. It's more like an eternal fire insurance policy for the secular.

So don't be surprised by any of this. It's fine to be a minister. Just make sure that you encourage all of your flock to take up ministry and make sure your revenue goes to the widows, orphans, poor, sick, and the sojourner within your gates, and that you minster to the prisoners and that the pew is where your folks get their marching orders, rather than purchase that fire insurance policy.

We still have some solid denominations and some solid churches, but they are getting harder and harder to find. The denominations that have split will have a conservative wing and a progressive one. Both will claim to be "evangelical" but not all of them are on either side of the divide. So I guess that's where you need to use your discernment.

Christianity has socialist aspects in that we help those those in need. But the distinction is between the motives. If your motive is to care for those you love then those social aspects fall under the Christian obligation to provide agape love to one another. If your motive is to spread around possessions it isn't Christian in nature. It's political.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2018 12:52 AM by JRsec.)
11-05-2018 12:50 AM
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ericsrevenge76 Away
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Post: #14
RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
There is a pretty simple biblical explanation for all of this. Satan is moving the world and what Revelation refers to as the church of Laodicea into position for one world worship, one world unity and one world government, which will be headed up by the antichrist.

Nations within the one world government will still exist in some capacity, but the end game here is a single government and single one world religion for all world apostate Christians combined with all other religions.

We are far later in the hour than most realize, even many of the Saints (elect) in Christ living today.
11-05-2018 03:53 AM
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RE: How Christian Marxism took root in Brazil
My wife, whose family is Southern Baptist, wanted a childhood friend of hers who went into the priesthood to perform our marriage. She's a lower ranked pastor at one of the big churches in Charlotte, but they were both originally from Wilmington and that was where we were getting married at so it worked out. We went over to the church for the mandatory pre-wedding counseling.

I knew the reputation of this church already. It's one of the oldest in the city, but they went full on left wing in the 90's after half their congregation balked over splitting from the Southern Baptist convention.

Low and behold her bookshelf contained such classics as Marx and Jesus and the Feminist Christain.

I had a hard time not laughing when she said that they try not to refer to God in the masculine, but had no issue doing so if we requested.

We requested.
11-05-2018 09:25 AM
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