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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #441
RE: New School maybe
Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?
08-15-2019 11:08 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #442
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 01:12 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  CBU already counts this year, their second year. Dixie State will count as a D-II school in 2020-21. But they will count as a D-I school in 2021-22 onward. The same was true of GCU when they moved up. The first year in the WAC they counted D-II, after that they counted D-I on the schedule.

SoCalBobcat is 100% correct on this, it's a non-issue. A conference like the WAC can invite one D-II move up every year and it would not make any schools schedule run afoul of the NCAA.

And even if they invited 2 schools in a given year, the NCAA would almost certainly give the school a pass on the issue for a year. The NCAA are not sticklers for enforcing the segments of the rule book which are in effect guidelines. They are well aware and understanding that a school could get out of compliance through no fault of their own for a year. They are not going to lay down the law over it.

The same is true of the Summit being short a baseball school. The NCAA would issue a hundred waivers before they'd force an otherwise stable conference with 9 full members in good standing with the NCAA to become homeless.

As long as they are making an effort to correct the out of compliance issue (ie actively recruiting another member, or actively recruiting a baseball affliate, etc).
08-15-2019 11:35 AM
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Lopes87 Offline
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Post: #443
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 11:08 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?

Southland has like 13 or 14 members already right?
08-15-2019 12:19 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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Post: #444
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 12:19 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:08 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?

Southland has like 13 or 14 members already right?

Yep, the SLC has 13 total members with 11 of those members playing football. I think the conference would have probably gone to divisional play in some sports if ORU had stayed.
08-15-2019 03:02 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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Post: #445
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 12:19 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:08 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?

Southland has like 13 or 14 members already right?

Southland has 13 and off all the fantasy island dreams of the WAC becoming a football conference again, 6-8 Southland schools moving up to the WAC is the only idea that may happen.

6 Southland schools
NMSU
Dixie
08-15-2019 04:46 PM
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desertscholar974 Offline
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Post: #446
RE: New School maybe
(08-14-2019 02:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-14-2019 10:14 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Minnesota is a huge state by land size, yet only has one D1 school. Any schools in Minnesota making the move to D1?

St Thomas is trying to get a waiver or rule change to go directly from DIII to DI. The newspapers reported that the MIAC kicked them out, but more likely St Thomas wanted out and lobbied to get kicked out. Even if they have to go DII, hockey can sill go DI, and that will be the major revenue sport. St Thomas is rumored to build an arena near the new MSL stadium and their upside is at least MVC and could be higher. St Thomas is comparable in academics and endowment to Marquette or Creighton, and last century they played in a league with the Dakotas.

The Minnesots St system is really tight with money for athletics. St Cloud St has lost a Title IX suit.

This is what realistically could happen

New Mexico St. - UT Rio Grande Valley
Grand Canyon - Cal Baptist
Dixie St - Utah Valley
Seattle - (San Jose St??)
Chicago St - St. Thomas (MN)
Augustana - Univ of Sioux Falls

University of Sioux Falls is not far behind and they do have an urge to follow Augustana to the Division 1 Ranks. Should Chicago State not depart, St Thomas (MN) would be the travel partner.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 07:42 AM by desertscholar974.)
08-15-2019 09:29 PM
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Post: #447
RE: New School maybe
Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when has st Thomas ever actually expressed a stated interest in D1?
08-15-2019 11:31 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #448
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 12:19 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:08 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?

Southland has like 13 or 14 members already right?

Yep, the Southland has 13, of which 11 play football. It's not likely they would take any Lone Star moveups.

As for the Lone Star, yes the conference is expanding to 19 members, with the addition of 7 from the Heartland and Division III move-up UT Tyler. NONE of the new additions play football. Of the 9 pre-expansion Lone Star members who play football, I think these five have the potential to move up to FCS based on their history together, their enrollment and their level of fan support:

School / Year Joined / Enrollment / 2014-18 Avg. Home Football Attendance
Midwestern State / 1995 / 6,093 / 7,828
Texas A&M Commerce / 1931 / 12,013 / 7,192
West Texas A&M / 1994 / 10,169 / 6,832
Texas A&M Kingsville / 1954 / 8,783 / 6,229
Tarleton State / 1994 / 13,020 / 5,426

Just for comparison, average home football attendance for all 124 FCS teams in 2018 was 7,330. For FCS teams in the Southland Conference it was 7,161.

If these five were to join the WAC as a group it would increase all-sports conference membership to a comfortable 12 (assuming the departure of Chicago State) and permit the creation of a 6-member WAC FCS football conference (consisting of these five plus Dixie State).

Having said all that, there's no indication that any of the above five schools other than Tarleton State have any interest in moving up to D-I.
08-16-2019 01:51 AM
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Post: #449
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 11:31 PM)Todor Wrote:  Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when has st Thomas ever actually expressed a stated interest in D1?

They've been vague in their public comments. But they recently made, IRC, 2 athletic department hires from D1 schools that people think might be a signal of their intentions. For example, the AD they hired in November was the #2 at Penn State's athletic department. People are trying to read the tea leaves.
08-16-2019 08:50 AM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #450
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 11:31 PM)Todor Wrote:  Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when has st Thomas ever actually expressed a stated interest in D1?

They got kicked out of their D3 conference for being too good. None of the D2 conferences in the area seem to want them.

Their spending/facilities is more in line with what a lot of D1 privates have done.
08-16-2019 12:01 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #451
RE: New School maybe
(08-15-2019 03:02 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 12:19 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:08 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?

Southland has like 13 or 14 members already right?

Yep, the SLC has 13 total members with 11 of those members playing football. I think the conference would have probably gone to divisional play in some sports if ORU had stayed.

Talk of divisional play is what sent ORI back to the Summit. They were going to be out with UCA and all the LA schools. They protested because they wanted to play in Texas.
08-16-2019 04:22 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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RE: New School maybe
(08-16-2019 01:51 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 12:19 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:08 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?

Southland has like 13 or 14 members already right?

Yep, the Southland has 13, of which 11 play football. It's not likely they would take any Lone Star moveups.

As for the Lone Star, yes the conference is expanding to 19 members, with the addition of 7 from the Heartland and Division III move-up UT Tyler. NONE of the new additions play football. Of the 9 pre-expansion Lone Star members who play football, I think these five have the potential to move up to FCS based on their history together, their enrollment and their level of fan support:

School / Year Joined / Enrollment / 2014-18 Avg. Home Football Attendance
Midwestern State / 1995 / 6,093 / 7,828
Texas A&M Commerce / 1931 / 12,013 / 7,192
West Texas A&M / 1994 / 10,169 / 6,832
Texas A&M Kingsville / 1954 / 8,783 / 6,229
Tarleton State / 1994 / 13,020 / 5,426

Just for comparison, average home football attendance for all 124 FCS teams in 2018 was 7,330. For FCS teams in the Southland Conference it was 7,161.

If these five were to join the WAC as a group it would increase all-sports conference membership to a comfortable 12 (assuming the departure of Chicago State) and permit the creation of a 6-member WAC FCS football conference (consisting of these five plus Dixie State).

Having said all that, there's no indication that any of the above five schools other than Tarleton State have any interest in moving up to D-I.

These 5, or alternatively, Angelo St, would fit the bill. 4 of those 5 are A&M schools so perhaps they could come to some mutual agreement to move together.

Most of the athletes who would become scholarship players are probably already receiving financial grants-in-aid. Going to DI FCS would simply mean relabeling their finding packages as athletic scholarships.
08-16-2019 04:32 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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RE: New School maybe
(08-16-2019 04:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 03:02 PM)LUSportsFan Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 12:19 PM)Lopes87 Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:08 AM)Hilldog Wrote:  Maybe it's been covered on here before, but I'm not going through 22 pages of fairytales. But, the Lone Star Conference has 19 members!! Most have football. What schools are likely candidates to move to D1? I'm sure they would prefer a Southland invite, but would they accept a WAC bid?

Southland has like 13 or 14 members already right?

Yep, the SLC has 13 total members with 11 of those members playing football. I think the conference would have probably gone to divisional play in some sports if ORU had stayed.

Talk of divisional play is what sent ORI back to the Summit. They were going to be out with UCA and all the LA schools. They protested because they wanted to play in Texas.

I've heard that, but haven't been able to verify it. It may be so, but ORU currently plays NO conference games in Texas as a Summit League member.

On the other hand, with Lamar 30 miles from Louisiana, and Stephen F. Austin 50 miles from Louisiana, it would make a little more sense for those two universities to play at least some time in the East division. In fact, Lamar and Stephen F. Austin alternated divisions every two years the last time the conference had divisional play (2006-07 to 2011-12). Each of those seasons, Lamar played at least 5 cross-division games with a 16 game conference schedule. That's at least 5 more Texas conference games than ORU currently plays. I suspect there would be more cross-divisional games now with the SLC moving to a 20 game conference schedule.

--------------------------

To get this back to the main topic, the schools HawaiiMongoose listed and Angelo State would be good possiblities. Another might be Central Oklahoma if they have a desire to move up. Wikipedia shows them with around 17,000 students. They are located in Edmond, Oklahoma (basically Oklahoma City), and are about 25 miles from Will Rogers World Airport.

They have decent athletic facilities:
Football Stadium: 10,000 capacity - recently renovated
Basketballl Arena: 3,000 capacity
Baseball Stadium: 1,000 capacity - renovated in 2017
Softball Stadium: Renovated in 2016-17

A really nice sports performance center opened last year. https://bronchosports.com/sports/2019/2/...enter.aspx

Women's sports match WAC sponsored sports a little better than UCO's men's sports.

Here's a link to the athletics website.
https://bronchosports.com/sports/2011/6/...11744.aspx
08-16-2019 07:14 PM
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Todor Offline
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Post: #454
RE: New School maybe
(08-16-2019 12:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:31 PM)Todor Wrote:  Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when has st Thomas ever actually expressed a stated interest in D1?

They got kicked out of their D3 conference for being too good. None of the D2 conferences in the area seem to want them.

Their spending/facilities is more in line with what a lot of D1 privates have done.

I was asking what they have ever said about moving to D1. I've never heard of any d2 conferences stating they don't want them either. Which ones? Has the NSIC stated they aren't intersted? Where is any statement from St Thomas about going D1?
08-16-2019 07:46 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: New School maybe
(08-16-2019 07:46 PM)Todor Wrote:  
(08-16-2019 12:01 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(08-15-2019 11:31 PM)Todor Wrote:  Maybe I'm out of the loop, but when has st Thomas ever actually expressed a stated interest in D1?

They got kicked out of their D3 conference for being too good. None of the D2 conferences in the area seem to want them.

Their spending/facilities is more in line with what a lot of D1 privates have done.

I was asking what they have ever said about moving to D1. I've never heard of any d2 conferences stating they don't want them either. Which ones? Has the NSIC stated they aren't intersted? Where is any statement from St Thomas about going D1?

St Thomas has never even defended its program from being kicked out of their exclusive Minnesota DIII league. There is speculation that St Thomas was kicked out to satisfy St Thomas, which wanted to get their fans behind moving up, as it meant leaving some prime rivals, such as St John’s. There is another Minnesota DIII league of lesser class schools and no overtures to them have been made either.

The DII league may lose two schools, Augustana and Minn-Crookston. Minn-Crookston wants DIII hockey, as it dropped DII hockey when it was discontinued, and a counterpart, Minn-Morris is in the other DIII league. Someone needs to replace St Thomas in the MIAC for hockey as they need another school.

St Thomas hockey would be the big deal as there is no DII championship and they can go DI relatively quickly in that sport regardless of the DII situation.

There is chatter that St Thomas will build an 5000 seat arena near the Allianz MLS stadium, that it has hired Penn St personnel that started hockey there so successfully, hired the Gophers athletic architectural firm for general athletic renovations, and hasn’t approached the Wisconsin DIII league. St Thomas would be like Marquette starting hockey, and would have games against the Gophers. Recently, the NCAA announced that it would review the possibility that a DIII can move straight to DI without a stop in DII.

For hockey, that is already possible, and St Thomas hockey would be big. It’s already speculated that the MVC would take them in to balance their private/public schools, as the MSP media is so wanted by them. Either the Summit or the Horizon would almost instantly add them once they have green light from the NCAA.

St Thomas already has a major MSP radio contract and it would go up dramatically if it was DI. Even DI for hockey only would greatly increase that. The WCHA has said they would expand their women’s league with St Thomas or Northern Michigan given the chance if either announced. Televised DI hockey would result in a huge contract.

Their associated high school, St Thomas Academy, has been a power in Minnesota HS hockey for years.
(This post was last modified: 08-16-2019 08:50 PM by NoDak.)
08-16-2019 08:30 PM
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RE: New School maybe
(08-16-2019 07:46 PM)Todor Wrote:  Has the NSIC stated they aren't intersted? Where is any statement from St Thomas about going D1?

In the days after the story broke, the NSIC commissioner was asked about St. Thomas. He said all the polite things. Then he said that they would be open to considering STU, but they weren't really interested if STU was just "passing through" the NSIC on their way to another conference or division in a few years.

I assume that's what caused interest in the "direct to D1" possibility.
08-17-2019 12:36 PM
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Hilldog Offline
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RE: New School maybe
What is the athletic and football budgets for Cal Poly and Davis? Let's say they are thinking of moving up in football. Let's assume, that means they would have to leave the Big West.

So would each of those two schools increase their athletic and football budgets by at least 25% with the increased in scholarship and travel- since there will be no more bus trips to conference schools!
08-19-2019 03:22 PM
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LUSportsFan Offline
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RE: New School maybe
(08-19-2019 03:22 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  What is the athletic and football budgets for Cal Poly and Davis? Let's say they are thinking of moving up in football. Let's assume, that means they would have to leave the Big West.

So would each of those two schools increase their athletic and football budgets by at least 25% with the increased in scholarship and travel- since there will be no more bus trips to conference schools!
I don't know what the budgets are, but below is a comparison of expenses including New Mexico State which is already FBS. The numbers are a little difficult to normalize without additional information since each university sponsors a different sports mix. Also other factors like cost of living probably impact the numbers. Without doing some additional digging, I imagine cost of living is less in New Mexico than in California.

Based on the USAToday 2017-18 Finances database https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/
Cal Poly: $29,869,660 20 sports (22 if they participate in both indoor & outdoor track)
UC-Davis:$36,143,657 19 sports (UC Davis participates in outdoor track)

For comparison, FBS New Mexico State comes in at $25,693,309.
(16 sports including indoor and outdoor track)

All three are over the required minimum number of sports for D-I FBS (and FCS) so some budget savings could be possible by dropping some of the sponsored sports, if necessary.

The DOE OPE Equity in Athletics database shows the following for total football expenses for reporting year 7/1/2017-6/30/2018.
https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/institution/search
Cal Poly: $4,224,651
UC-Davis: $5,482,168
New Mexico State: $7,563,062
08-19-2019 05:15 PM
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NoDak Offline
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RE: New School maybe
(08-19-2019 03:22 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  What is the athletic and football budgets for Cal Poly and Davis? Let's say they are thinking of moving up in football. Let's assume, that means they would have to leave the Big West.

So would each of those two schools increase their athletic and football budgets by at least 25% with the increased in scholarship and travel- since there will be no more bus trips to conference schools!

https://www.kcra.com/article/records-sac...s/26327042

Article on UC Davis’s and Sac St athletic budgets. UC Davis’s budget is almost three times higher than NC A&T, which just announced that it is considering going FBS. UC Davis and Cal Poly would need stadium expansions though, which are planned. UCDavis plays in an east coast field hockey conference with Stanford and Cal.

https://thespun.com/college-football/nor...otball-fbs
(This post was last modified: 08-19-2019 06:57 PM by NoDak.)
08-19-2019 06:53 PM
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RE: New School maybe
(08-19-2019 06:53 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(08-19-2019 03:22 PM)Hilldog Wrote:  What is the athletic and football budgets for Cal Poly and Davis? Let's say they are thinking of moving up in football. Let's assume, that means they would have to leave the Big West.

So would each of those two schools increase their athletic and football budgets by at least 25% with the increased in scholarship and travel- since there will be no more bus trips to conference schools!

https://www.kcra.com/article/records-sac...s/26327042

Article on UC Davis’s and Sac St athletic budgets. UC Davis’s budget is almost three times higher than NC A&T, which just announced that it is considering going FBS. UC Davis and Cal Poly would need stadium expansions though, which are planned. UCDavis plays in an east coast field hockey conference with Stanford and Cal.

https://thespun.com/college-football/nor...otball-fbs

Cal Poly isn’t going anywhere unless they are forced by Sac and davis going FBS. CP has the highest mandatory campus fees of all 23 CSU’s (per ’18/19 academic year data) at $4074 which is almost double the next closest CSU (Sonoma State at $2056/year). Sac State’s is at $1568, 9th highest of the 23 CSU’s. San Jose has the highest fess of the FBS CSU’s at $2054, Fresno the lowest at $845.

To put it bluntly, CP can’t/shouldn’t afford the increased fees associated with supporting more scholarships at the FBS level. Also their stadium is locked in with surrounding infrastructure so any expansion in its current location will be very costly and not add many seats.

On the other hand, Sac State can absorb a fee increase for FBS and a fee associated with an on-campus events center if/when needed.
08-19-2019 11:54 PM
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