(10-27-2018 03:52 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(10-27-2018 01:23 PM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  Jackson and Whatley had nearly identical stats. One was a fifth year senior, one was a true freshman.

You have no consistency and your points have no value. You talk about players you’ve never seen play and judge them based completely on stats with no context, and act as if external factors have no bearing on performance.. But when the stats don’t back you up you move the goal posts and blame the difference on external factors like coaching.

Dude again you are stuck on the 4th or 5th banana of the point completely ignoring the loss of multi year starters who were the best players I mentioned first. I've seen years of Barkley , Tyson and Craig, I know what we lost from a talent perspective, and you haven't seen these new players anymore than I have to say they are going to be so great.

On paper it's not hard to look at their offer sheets, stats, or the fact they are freshman to make some pretty strong conclusions as CBS, Pomroy, league coaches, etc etc have. This team has 2 upperclassmen that's pretty much all that need to be said if you are projecting a teams rank. The coaching can be amazing but if you are depending on freshman you beat out a lot of schools like Radford and Alabama A&M for it's probably not going to matter a lot. Step out the ECU bubble man, who else in the entire world thinks we will be significantly better? All I said was it's a reasonable perspective.

Because I already answered those. You have not seen years of Jabari Craig, and even if you have and you think losing him hurts ECU...well. I’m sure ECU will wish they had his 5 points a game this year.

ECU has the same amount of talent they did last season without the locker room mess.

(10-29-2018 06:42 AM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  

(10-27-2018 03:52 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(10-27-2018 01:23 PM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  Jackson and Whatley had nearly identical stats. One was a fifth year senior, one was a true freshman.

You have no consistency and your points have no value. You talk about players you’ve never seen play and judge them based completely on stats with no context, and act as if external factors have no bearing on performance.. But when the stats don’t back you up you move the goal posts and blame the difference on external factors like coaching.

Dude again you are stuck on the 4th or 5th banana of the point completely ignoring the loss of multi year starters who were the best players I mentioned first. I've seen years of Barkley , Tyson and Craig, I know what we lost from a talent perspective, and you haven't seen these new players anymore than I have to say they are going to be so great.

On paper it's not hard to look at their offer sheets, stats, or the fact they are freshman to make some pretty strong conclusions as CBS, Pomroy, league coaches, etc etc have. This team has 2 upperclassmen that's pretty much all that need to be said if you are projecting a teams rank. The coaching can be amazing but if you are depending on freshman you beat out a lot of schools like Radford and Alabama A&M for it's probably not going to matter a lot. Step out the ECU bubble man, who else in the entire world thinks we will be significantly better? All I said was it's a reasonable perspective.

Because I already answered those. You have not seen years of Jabari Craig, and even if you have and you think losing him hurts ECU...well. I’m sure ECU will wish they had his 5 points a game this year.

ECU has the same amount of talent they did last season without the locker room mess.

Can always filter the few shots he took around to other positions where they usually get better shots by default than post ups since they are pretty average shot quality at best. It's his rebound rate and rim protection that this team will likely miss and need most, you know the most important of the big man qualities.

Rebound rate
15.3% Craig
15.1% Hurana
12.9% Barkley
9.6% Spas
8.1% Jackson
6.8% Tyson
6.8% Whatley
6.7% Fleming


Spas and Whatley rebound like guards and never block shots, and it was even worse in conference games.


Rebound rate Conference
14.3% Craig
14.0% Barkley
14.0% Hurana
8.4% Jackson
8.2% Spas
7.9% Fleming
6.6% Tyson
5.9% Whatley

Dooley has literally commented that our Point Guard is our best rebounder and that's not a big stretch given the numbers. As much as you can crap on these guys I could crap on how horrible Spas and Whatley were at the very things you most need out of bigs which are rebounding and rim protection and it's not like they were any good on offense either. We are screwed if these freshman and LeDay don't beat them out and Dooley's comment about the rebounding isn't a good sign IMO.

(10-24-2018 04:51 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...very-team/

192. South Florida {11th}

David Collins is the key piece for Brian Gregory's team, which will look a lot difference this year because of how many transfers are going to be in uniform.



273. ECU {12th}

The lowest-ranked team of 2018 among Major 7 conferences are these Pirates, who have hope thanks to super sophomore Shawn Williams and the AAC's most prolific passer, Isaac Fleming.

I refuse to get into the Stilljonesing pissing match, but this is the part that really gets me. What does USF have that gives them 80 points on us. Didn't we significantly beat them last year?

I wasn't expecting us to be top half of the league, but DFL by a huge margin is shocking to me.

(10-29-2018 01:07 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 04:51 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...very-team/

192. South Florida {11th}

David Collins is the key piece for Brian Gregory's team, which will look a lot difference this year because of how many transfers are going to be in uniform.



273. ECU {12th}

The lowest-ranked team of 2018 among Major 7 conferences are these Pirates, who have hope thanks to super sophomore Shawn Williams and the AAC's most prolific passer, Isaac Fleming.

I refuse to get into the Stilljonesing pissing match, but this is the part that really gets me. What does USF have that gives them 80 points on us. Didn't we significantly beat them last year?

I wasn't expecting us to be top half of the league, but DFL by a huge margin is shocking to me.

Lebo didn't get fired. He left. That's the cause of some of this. Most people don't look past the top half or third of a conference, that includes talking heads and writers. So what most people know is A) last year's record and player loss and B ) your coach quit. That usually equals a bad year. Especially if 2 scholarships short.

I really expect no one to be worse than 200 though. Most of the conference will be in the top 100.

(10-29-2018 01:12 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 01:07 PM)GrayBeard Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 04:51 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  https://www.cbssports.com/college-basket...very-team/

192. South Florida {11th}

David Collins is the key piece for Brian Gregory's team, which will look a lot difference this year because of how many transfers are going to be in uniform.



273. ECU {12th}

The lowest-ranked team of 2018 among Major 7 conferences are these Pirates, who have hope thanks to super sophomore Shawn Williams and the AAC's most prolific passer, Isaac Fleming.

I refuse to get into the Stilljonesing pissing match, but this is the part that really gets me. What does USF have that gives them 80 points on us. Didn't we significantly beat them last year?

I wasn't expecting us to be top half of the league, but DFL by a huge margin is shocking to me.

Lebo didn't get fired. He left. That's the cause of some of this. Most people don't look past the top half or third of a conference, that includes talking heads and writers. So what most people know is A) last year's record and player loss and B ) your coach quit. That usually equals a bad year. Especially if 2 scholarships short.

I really expect no one to be worse than 200 though. Most of the conference will be in the top 100.

This writers assumption probably comes from the fact he said they have added multiple transfers and JUCO's where as we have 2 upperclassmen on our entire team. I get it, not hard to see instant value in their additions.

They added

-a transfer from Gardner Webb that averaged 14ppg 5apg and 5rpg, 3spg, 39% 3's with a 25 PER. Guy sounds like a stud player and his team won 19 games there so it wasn't all empty stats.

-6-7 starting wing from Auburn 7ppg there on a slick 600% true shooting

-they got a 6-10 JUCO that averaged 15 and 8 on 67% FG and 81% from the FT line on a good JUCO team.

and they also got 2 guys from Oklahoma State and LSU as well I assume will be eligible after the 1st semester I guess and another JUCO as well.


That's 6 players that sounds like a lot of serious upgrades of talent and experience that most of which are ready to step in and be pretty good. Contrast that to adding a bunch of freshman I get it personally. Good on USF they look at lot better just from the little I educated myself on their additions.

They return a 10ppg scorer as well and a couple of starters. I'd put them above us as well based on their additions.

(10-25-2018 06:14 AM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 09:02 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 07:17 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I'm gonna step way out on a limb on this, but I'm never scared to make a bold prediction. ECU will be better than 273rd in the country.

We get picked last every year yet I think not even Lebo ever finished last.

It's ok. Tulsa finishes higher than we're picked literally every year yet we still get thrown towards the bottom.

It helps that Tulsa gets to play ECU, USF and Tulane each 14 times per year and never plays Cincinnati. OK, well it seems like it anyways.

(10-29-2018 02:14 PM)vabearcat Wrote:  

(10-25-2018 06:14 AM)Hurricane Drummer Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 09:02 PM)Chappy Wrote:  

(10-24-2018 07:17 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  I'm gonna step way out on a limb on this, but I'm never scared to make a bold prediction. ECU will be better than 273rd in the country.

We get picked last every year yet I think not even Lebo ever finished last.

It's ok. Tulsa finishes higher than we're picked literally every year yet we still get thrown towards the bottom.

It helps that Tulsa gets to play ECU, USF and Tulane each 14 times per year and never plays Cincinnati. OK, well it seems like it anyways.

Actually lately we've avoided SMU 2x. Which is dumb. I think we've played uc 2x most of the years.

Don't you guys want to play the tougher teams? That's what will help your RPI/profile/resume come tourny time. If I were in your position I wouldn't care so much if we didn't win a regular season title, but had more quality wins/better losses and got a higher seed out of it because of the schedule.

I suppose it's possible the selection committee might see it as a feather for the champ but I don't think they are doing their job if you have a better resume even if you didn't win what amounts to another game or two in the standings. People put to much stock in standings that aren't apples to apples anyway IMO and that's the kind of stuff it's their job to dig into if you were playing tougher conf schedules.

Tulsa would prefer to play the tougher teams.

The deal is who will that be? Injuries, grades, poor performance makes it different every year even if we have a general idea of how it will shake out. I would prefer that some of the "flexibility" we work in the schedule went away to some extent.

I think it should be guaranteed everyone play home and homes vs the closest four teams to them. This would help increase some of the rivalry feel and chances for schools. Tulsa should always play SMU and Wichita twice imo. Cincy should always play Memphis and Temple, Houston should play SMU and Tulane. . .it just makes sense.

(10-29-2018 03:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  Tulsa would prefer to play the tougher teams.

The deal is who will that be? Injuries, grades, poor performance makes it different every year even if we have a general idea of how it will shake out. I would prefer that some of the "flexibility" we work in the schedule went away to some extent.

I think it should be guaranteed everyone play home and homes vs the closest four teams to them. This would help increase some of the rivalry feel and chances for schools. Tulsa should always play SMU and Wichita twice imo. Cincy should always play Memphis and Temple, Houston should play SMU and Tulane. . .it just makes sense.

That maybe true that you certainly can't for sure know what you are scheduling given injuries and such, but if a team like UCF is projected as the best team like this year, it's really no good for them or the conference to have to play ECU and USF twice as their "rival" games IMO.

(10-29-2018 07:29 AM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(10-29-2018 06:42 AM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  

(10-27-2018 03:52 PM)StillJonesing Wrote:  

(10-27-2018 01:23 PM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  Jackson and Whatley had nearly identical stats. One was a fifth year senior, one was a true freshman.

You have no consistency and your points have no value. You talk about players you’ve never seen play and judge them based completely on stats with no context, and act as if external factors have no bearing on performance.. But when the stats don’t back you up you move the goal posts and blame the difference on external factors like coaching.

Dude again you are stuck on the 4th or 5th banana of the point completely ignoring the loss of multi year starters who were the best players I mentioned first. I've seen years of Barkley , Tyson and Craig, I know what we lost from a talent perspective, and you haven't seen these new players anymore than I have to say they are going to be so great.

On paper it's not hard to look at their offer sheets, stats, or the fact they are freshman to make some pretty strong conclusions as CBS, Pomroy, league coaches, etc etc have. This team has 2 upperclassmen that's pretty much all that need to be said if you are projecting a teams rank. The coaching can be amazing but if you are depending on freshman you beat out a lot of schools like Radford and Alabama A&M for it's probably not going to matter a lot. Step out the ECU bubble man, who else in the entire world thinks we will be significantly better? All I said was it's a reasonable perspective.

Because I already answered those. You have not seen years of Jabari Craig, and even if you have and you think losing him hurts ECU...well. I’m sure ECU will wish they had his 5 points a game this year.

ECU has the same amount of talent they did last season without the locker room mess.

Can always filter the few shots he took around to other positions where they usually get better shots by default than post ups since they are pretty average shot quality at best. It's his rebound rate and rim protection that this team will likely miss and need most, you know the most important of the big man qualities.

Rebound rate
15.3% Craig
15.1% Hurana
12.9% Barkley
9.6% Spas
8.1% Jackson
6.8% Tyson
6.8% Whatley
6.7% Fleming


Spas and Whatley rebound like guards and never block shots, and it was even worse in conference games.


Rebound rate Conference
14.3% Craig
14.0% Barkley
14.0% Hurana
8.4% Jackson
8.2% Spas
7.9% Fleming
6.6% Tyson
5.9% Whatley

Dooley has literally commented that our Point Guard is our best rebounder and that's not a big stretch given the numbers. As much as you can crap on these guys I could crap on how horrible Spas and Whatley were at the very things you most need out of bigs which are rebounding and rim protection and it's not like they were any good on offense either. We are screwed if these freshman and LeDay don't beat them out and Dooley's comment about the rebounding isn't a good sign IMO.

They’re playing center in a 2-3 zone! I’d hope they would be getting more rebounds. They can’t play defense and they can’t score. Craig was ok towards the end of the year, but Gardner and Spas can definitely cover his production plus some. Spas definitely does offer production on offense.

(10-29-2018 03:39 PM)Foreverandever Wrote:  Tulsa would prefer to play the tougher teams.

The deal is who will that be? Injuries, grades, poor performance makes it different every year even if we have a general idea of how it will shake out. I would prefer that some of the "flexibility" we work in the schedule went away to some extent.

I think it should be guaranteed everyone play home and homes vs the closest four teams to them. This would help increase some of the rivalry feel and chances for schools. Tulsa should always play SMU and Wichita twice imo. Cincy should always play Memphis and Temple, Houston should play SMU and Tulane. . .it just makes sense.

It's all about putting your conference in the best position to get the most bids. The projected top teams need to play each other twice every year. You gotta game the system.

(10-29-2018 06:58 PM)DowdyPirate2 Wrote:  They’re playing center in a 2-3 zone! I’d hope they would be getting more rebounds. They can’t play defense and they can’t score. Craig was ok towards the end of the year, but Gardner and Spas can definitely cover his production plus some. Spas definitely does offer production on offense.

Center Minutes played last year....

1200 center minutes played on our team.

Spas 496 (of his 717 played at center)
Craig 496
Hurana 208

Spas 496 minutes at center vs 221 at PF Exactly the same amount played at center as Craig overall.

Conference Only

Center minutes 720

Spas 409
Craig 185
Hurana 126

Spas played 409 of his 421 minutes in conference at CENTER

Reminder of just how bad he did there playing all conference center minutes...

Conference only

Rebound percentage.
14.3% Craig
14.0% Barkley
14.0% Hurana
8.4% Jackson
8.2% Spas
7.9% Fleming
6.6% Tyson
5.9% Whatley

Rebound percentage was actually worse the more he played at Center even by comparison to the others or Barkley, almost identical to the PG infact in 18 conference games.

Even if Spas didn't play the vast majority of his minutes at center (like he did near 500 to 200 split) it still doesn't explain why he and Whatley rebounds like wings on our team. Your attempt at spin makes it more damning if what you said had any truth to it. Even playing 97.2% of his minutes at center in conference everyone around him out rebounding him.

They sucked shooting the ball too and it's not like we want them doing that either and you are also wrong, we gave up over 5 points per 100 possessions more with either of them on the court vs Craig or Hurana. Their defense was worse.