The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(10-23-2018 09:20 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 08:08 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 07:12 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:21 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:08 PM)gerhard911 Wrote:  Absolutely. I think LD has a better grasp on the game of BB than MC. We are in for a really disappointing year.

I was a big Larry Davis fan but come on. Some of the anti-Mick takes are absurd. Larry Davis lost to ECU and Tulane when he took over.

Do you guys forget that UC won 31 games last year and two championship. I really want a Final Four too but I am not going dismiss what this program has done over the last two years or even the last 20 years due to the lack of post success.

The only measure of success in CBB is the tournament.

Nope

Tournament success is what defines programs, fair or not. No one outside of the conference remembers who won the conference championship. It's all about deep tournament runs. I'll take one of Xavier's Elite 8 runs as a 10 seed over a 2nd round upset as a 2 seed everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

ok great. Do they hand out trophies for sweet 16 and elite eight appearances. I want a deep tournament run like every fan but trust me nobody remembers the tournament outside a few upsets and who made the Final Four. I’ll take conference championships and a Final Four. The goal should be both. Oddly enough the better the seed the more likely that team is good enough to make a deep run. Continue to produce top 10 teams and the results should come in March.

(10-22-2018 08:21 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:08 PM)gerhard911 Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 06:36 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  People are really disappointed by this? We knew with the timing that were going to have an interim assistant coach and find a permanent replacement after the year. Not sure what people thought was going to happen.

Absolutely. I think LD has a better grasp on the game of BB than MC. We are in for a really disappointing year.

I was a big Larry Davis fan but come on. Some of the anti-Mick takes are absurd. Larry Davis lost to ECU and Tulane when he took over.

Do you guys forget that UC won 31 games last year and two championship. I really want a Final Four too but I am not going dismiss what this program has done over the last two years or even the last 20 years due to the lack of post success.

The national media does.

(10-23-2018 10:40 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:21 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:08 PM)gerhard911 Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 06:36 PM)RealDeal Wrote:  People are really disappointed by this? We knew with the timing that were going to have an interim assistant coach and find a permanent replacement after the year. Not sure what people thought was going to happen.

Absolutely. I think LD has a better grasp on the game of BB than MC. We are in for a really disappointing year.

I was a big Larry Davis fan but come on. Some of the anti-Mick takes are absurd. Larry Davis lost to ECU and Tulane when he took over.

Do you guys forget that UC won 31 games last year and two championship. I really want a Final Four too but I am not going dismiss what this program has done over the last two years or even the last 20 years due to the lack of post success.

The national media does.

... And heaven knows I wake up every morning wondering what the national media thinks.

It's an assistant coach. They come and go. Do you think Kryzewski crapped himself when Jeff Capel left???

Notice how no one is saying that the secret to Huggins' success was John Loyer.

(10-23-2018 09:20 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 08:08 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 07:12 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:21 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:08 PM)gerhard911 Wrote:  Absolutely. I think LD has a better grasp on the game of BB than MC. We are in for a really disappointing year.

I was a big Larry Davis fan but come on. Some of the anti-Mick takes are absurd. Larry Davis lost to ECU and Tulane when he took over.

Do you guys forget that UC won 31 games last year and two championship. I really want a Final Four too but I am not going dismiss what this program has done over the last two years or even the last 20 years due to the lack of post success.

The only measure of success in CBB is the tournament.

Nope

Tournament success is what defines programs, fair or not. No one outside of the conference remembers who won the conference championship. It's all about deep tournament runs. I'll take one of Xavier's Elite 8 runs as a 10 seed over a 2nd round upset as a 2 seed everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Sorry. This just isn't the case. Nova was an elite program even when they were losing in the second round as a high seed every year. They were elite because they were winning conference titles and getting high seeds. Eventually they broke threw and yea they are viewed even better now, but that program wasn't defined by its second round losses.

Obviously making final fours and winning championships will get you the most notoriety and respect (Though South Carolina's one final four didn't suddenly make them a program that the media talked about), but I think sustained success all year, winning conference titles and getting high seeds are far more program defining (and gets more long term respect) than winning 2 or 3 tournament games. Loyola had an amazing run, but like George Mason and VCU before them that deep run isn't going to have staying power for how the program is viewed without sustained success after. Wichita hasn't really made a deep run since their final four season, but the sustained success gets them plenty of attention.

FWIW, Nevada is preseason 7. A disastrous loss to a very talented team.

(10-23-2018 11:01 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 09:20 AM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 08:08 AM)bearcatmark Wrote:  

(10-23-2018 07:12 AM)Dannyboy Wrote:  

(10-22-2018 08:21 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  I was a big Larry Davis fan but come on. Some of the anti-Mick takes are absurd. Larry Davis lost to ECU and Tulane when he took over.

Do you guys forget that UC won 31 games last year and two championship. I really want a Final Four too but I am not going dismiss what this program has done over the last two years or even the last 20 years due to the lack of post success.

The only measure of success in CBB is the tournament.

Nope

Tournament success is what defines programs, fair or not. No one outside of the conference remembers who won the conference championship. It's all about deep tournament runs. I'll take one of Xavier's Elite 8 runs as a 10 seed over a 2nd round upset as a 2 seed everyday of the week and twice on Sunday.

Sorry. This just isn't the case. Nova was an elite program even when they were losing in the second round as a high seed every year. They were elite because they were winning conference titles and getting high seeds. Eventually they broke threw and yea they are viewed even better now, but that program wasn't defined by its second round losses.

Obviously making final fours and winning championships will get you the most notoriety and respect (Though South Carolina's one final four didn't suddenly make them a program that the media talked about), but I think sustained success all year, winning conference titles and getting high seeds are far more program defining (and gets more long term respect) than winning 2 or 3 tournament games. Loyola had an amazing run, but like George Mason and VCU before them that deep run isn't going to have staying power for how the program is viewed without sustained success after. Wichita hasn't really made a deep run since their final four season, but the sustained success gets them plenty of attention.

You are correct that deep post-season runs alone don't determine the primacy of a program...you have to consider lottery picks as well.

Of course...with enough lottery picks, deep post season runs become routine.