(10-19-2018 01:03 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: While I'm not agreeing with MD, theres a touch of truth to his point. He's just exaggerating it so he can blame Carey.
For sure the number one reason the offense does struggle is because of the lack of a deep passing threat. Whether this has influenced the play calling or not, this years offense is more conservative than previous years. So while Childers has not been executing certain passes well, the offense has also pulled in the reigns on pushing the ball when there is opportunities to do so.
I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
Santa averaged 31 passes per game in his 3 starts last year. Childers has averaged.....31 passes per start this year.
It's the same offense lol. Childers just can't hit a deep ball (although last week wasn't his fault). On the flip side, Santa couldn't throw it to his own team. Santa threw 7 INTs in 135 pass attempts at NIU. Childers has 10 in 479.
(This post was last modified: 10-19-2018 11:01 PM by 7.)
(10-19-2018 01:03 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: While I'm not agreeing with MD, theres a touch of truth to his point. He's just exaggerating it so he can blame Carey.
For sure the number one reason the offense does struggle is because of the lack of a deep passing threat. Whether this has influenced the play calling or not, this years offense is more conservative than previous years. So while Childers has not been executing certain passes well, the offense has also pulled in the reigns on pushing the ball when there is opportunities to do so.
I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
Santa averaged 31 passes per game in his 3 starts last year. Childers has averaged.....31 passes per start this year.
It's the same offense lol. Childers just can't hit a deep ball (although last week wasn't his fault). On the flip side, Santa couldn't throw it to his own team. Santa threw 7 INTs in 135 pass attempts at NIU. Childers has 10 in 479.
(10-19-2018 01:03 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: While I'm not agreeing with MD, theres a touch of truth to his point. He's just exaggerating it so he can blame Carey.
For sure the number one reason the offense does struggle is because of the lack of a deep passing threat. Whether this has influenced the play calling or not, this years offense is more conservative than previous years. So while Childers has not been executing certain passes well, the offense has also pulled in the reigns on pushing the ball when there is opportunities to do so.
I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
You don't think Carey's goal is to keep the score close every game, I think he has said as much? Again, that might be fine against a team like FSU or Iowa, but my goodness, occasionally play to win, especially vs MAC opponents where you more often than not have the better team
(10-19-2018 01:03 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: While I'm not agreeing with MD, theres a touch of truth to his point. He's just exaggerating it so he can blame Carey.
For sure the number one reason the offense does struggle is because of the lack of a deep passing threat. Whether this has influenced the play calling or not, this years offense is more conservative than previous years. So while Childers has not been executing certain passes well, the offense has also pulled in the reigns on pushing the ball when there is opportunities to do so.
I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
Santa averaged 31 passes per game in his 3 starts last year. Childers has averaged.....31 passes per start this year.
It's the same offense lol. Childers just can't hit a deep ball (although last week wasn't his fault). On the flip side, Santa couldn't throw it to his own team. Santa threw 7 INTs in 135 pass attempts at NIU. Childers has 10 in 479.
Nice find. The facts are the facts.
Its not the number of attempts. I can call 31 five yard outs or I can call 31 deep post patterns. Its not the same mode of attacking a defense. Childers has 10 ints in almost 500 attempts because he doesn't throw into the middle of the field or intermediate depth. We know his accuracy is suspect...so how else then do you think he has avoided interceptions???? Short safe passes. Long safe passes.
Please do not bring me a "Santa threw more picks because he threw more deep balls" argument. Not a single one of his picks against San Diego State was on a deep ball. Off the top of my head, the only one his career that was on a deep ball might have been the one that got him pulled against Kent State, but i'm not 100% sure on that.
Really the only difference i can think of in offense between Santa last year and Childers this year is, for whatever reason they didn't call many (any?) designed runs for Santa last year.
The offense has been relatively the same since Carey got here. Run, run, run, run, sideways pass, sideways pass, sideways pass, deep ball.
I don't think the play calling has been conservative as much as Childers plays conservative and can't hit a deep ball.
(10-19-2018 01:03 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: While I'm not agreeing with MD, theres a touch of truth to his point. He's just exaggerating it so he can blame Carey.
For sure the number one reason the offense does struggle is because of the lack of a deep passing threat. Whether this has influenced the play calling or not, this years offense is more conservative than previous years. So while Childers has not been executing certain passes well, the offense has also pulled in the reigns on pushing the ball when there is opportunities to do so.
I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
You don't think Carey's goal is to keep the score close every game, I think he has said as much? Again, that might be fine against a team like FSU or Iowa, but my goodness, occasionally play to win, especially vs MAC opponents where you more often than not have the better team
Carey would love a 30 point lead just like any coach. His goal isn't to keep his points down on offense, but to avoid giving up free points to the opponent that his defense would not have normally given up. Its just very conservative. Carey thinks his defense won't give up more than 21. So lets not have the offense spot the opponent 10 free ones by mistakes. I think he believes this offense can put 24-31 points up even with their dysfunction. I don't, but I think he does.
(10-19-2018 11:48 PM)7 Wrote: Just a couple other things here:
Please do not bring me a "Santa threw more picks because he threw more deep balls" argument. Not a single one of his picks against San Diego State was on a deep ball. Off the top of my head, the only one his career that was on a deep ball might have been the one that got him pulled against Kent State, but i'm not 100% sure on that.
Really the only difference i can think of in offense between Santa last year and Childers this year is, for whatever reason they didn't call many (any?) designed runs for Santa last year.
The offense has been relatively the same since Carey got here. Run, run, run, run, sideways pass, sideways pass, sideways pass, deep ball.
I don't think the play calling has been conservative as much as Childers plays conservative and can't hit a deep ball.
I consider the deep ball a safe pass. Usually it's one on one and can't be misdirected by anyone like a pass over the middle. That's a non argument from me. I don't believe Santa's 7 picks were on sideways passes. and if they weren't on deep balls they must have been on more dangerous passes.
(10-19-2018 07:28 PM)NILAW Wrote: I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
Santa averaged 31 passes per game in his 3 starts last year. Childers has averaged.....31 passes per start this year.
It's the same offense lol. Childers just can't hit a deep ball (although last week wasn't his fault). On the flip side, Santa couldn't throw it to his own team. Santa threw 7 INTs in 135 pass attempts at NIU. Childers has 10 in 479.
Nice find. The facts are the facts.
Its not the number of attempts. I can call 31 five yard outs or I can call 31 deep post patterns. Its not the same mode of attacking a defense. Childers has 10 ints in almost 500 attempts because he doesn't throw into the middle of the field or intermediate depth. We know his accuracy is suspect...so how else then do you think he has avoided interceptions???? Short safe passes. Long safe passes.
I couldn't even get my post out before somebody tried this lol. NIU didn't magically change their route tree when Santa got pulled for Childers last year. They're calling the same plays.
Now is Childers much more conservative (and smarter) in his decision making? Yes, but that's not a play calling thing. That's a player thing.
NIU's entire offense is based on short deep passes and long safe passes
Watch the offense with Lynch
Here's the offensive plays:
QB draw
QB draw
WR screen
QB draw
HB dive
Fake screen, deep ball
Play action, deep ball
QB draw
And here:
PA deep ball
PA dump off to the TE (fumble)
PA deepish ball (they ran this literal play against iowa this year to Brown)
PA deep ball
Hell, here's the full season highlight from the 2014 team.
It's always been the same offense lol
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2018 12:03 AM by 7.)
(10-19-2018 01:03 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: While I'm not agreeing with MD, theres a touch of truth to his point. He's just exaggerating it so he can blame Carey.
For sure the number one reason the offense does struggle is because of the lack of a deep passing threat. Whether this has influenced the play calling or not, this years offense is more conservative than previous years. So while Childers has not been executing certain passes well, the offense has also pulled in the reigns on pushing the ball when there is opportunities to do so.
I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
You don't think Carey's goal is to keep the score close every game, I think he has said as much? Again, that might be fine against a team like FSU or Iowa, but my goodness, occasionally play to win, especially vs MAC opponents where you more often than not have the better team
Carey would love a 30 point lead just like any coach. His goal isn't to keep his points down on offense, but to avoid giving up free points to the opponent that his defense would not have normally given up. Its just very conservative. Carey thinks his defense won't give up more than 21. So lets not have the offense spot the opponent 10 free ones by mistakes. I think he believes this offense can put 24-31 points up even with their dysfunction. I don't, but I think he does.
Well if his goal is have a 30 point lead, deferring possessions at end of halves is an odd way to show it. I think what I have witnessed which is backed up by NIU007's observations, is that Carey is much more in his safe space, comfort zone with a close game. That is why I stated it could be consciously or subconsciously. He is much more comfortable with close games and his actions and in-game decisions show that.
(10-19-2018 11:48 PM)7 Wrote: Just a couple other things here:
Please do not bring me a "Santa threw more picks because he threw more deep balls" argument. Not a single one of his picks against San Diego State was on a deep ball. Off the top of my head, the only one his career that was on a deep ball might have been the one that got him pulled against Kent State, but i'm not 100% sure on that.
Really the only difference i can think of in offense between Santa last year and Childers this year is, for whatever reason they didn't call many (any?) designed runs for Santa last year.
The offense has been relatively the same since Carey got here. Run, run, run, run, sideways pass, sideways pass, sideways pass, deep ball.
I don't think the play calling has been conservative as much as Childers plays conservative and can't hit a deep ball.
I consider the deep ball a safe pass. Usually it's one on one and can't be misdirected by anyone like a pass over the middle. That's a non argument from me. I don't believe Santa's 7 picks were on sideways passes. and if they weren't on deep balls they must have been on more dangerous passes.
Right, but this was a by product of Santa making dumb*** decisions, not different play calling. A lot of them were on crossers i feel like, which they're still running now.
(10-19-2018 07:28 PM)NILAW Wrote: I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
You don't think Carey's goal is to keep the score close every game, I think he has said as much? Again, that might be fine against a team like FSU or Iowa, but my goodness, occasionally play to win, especially vs MAC opponents where you more often than not have the better team
Carey would love a 30 point lead just like any coach. His goal isn't to keep his points down on offense, but to avoid giving up free points to the opponent that his defense would not have normally given up. Its just very conservative. Carey thinks his defense won't give up more than 21. So lets not have the offense spot the opponent 10 free ones by mistakes. I think he believes this offense can put 24-31 points up even with their dysfunction. I don't, but I think he does.
Well if his goal is have a 30 point lead, deferring possessions at end of halves is an odd way to show it. I think what I have witnessed which is backed up by NIU007's observations, is that Carey is much more in his safe space, comfort zone with a close game. That is why I stated it could be consciously or subconsciously. He is much more comfortable with close games and his actions and in-game decisions show that.
(10-19-2018 09:38 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
You don't think Carey's goal is to keep the score close every game, I think he has said as much? Again, that might be fine against a team like FSU or Iowa, but my goodness, occasionally play to win, especially vs MAC opponents where you more often than not have the better team
Carey would love a 30 point lead just like any coach. His goal isn't to keep his points down on offense, but to avoid giving up free points to the opponent that his defense would not have normally given up. Its just very conservative. Carey thinks his defense won't give up more than 21. So lets not have the offense spot the opponent 10 free ones by mistakes. I think he believes this offense can put 24-31 points up even with their dysfunction. I don't, but I think he does.
Well if his goal is have a 30 point lead, deferring possessions at end of halves is an odd way to show it. I think what I have witnessed which is backed up by NIU007's observations, is that Carey is much more in his safe space, comfort zone with a close game. That is why I stated it could be consciously or subconsciously. He is much more comfortable with close games and his actions and in-game decisions show that.
oh will you just stop it lol
He just has some of that old school mentality which is so frustrating, the whole "If we win the turnover battle, we should win". Carey cheats that formula by going into the turtle offensively in hopes the football gods will reward him for not making mistakes haha. I know it sounds moronic, but that is just how the man thinks. By staying in a close game, being conservative, not letting players make plays, he just thinks inherently that means the other team will blink first with the mistake. It is just such a passive approach. I kind of wonder if Carey always had these tentative tendencies, but as the defense has become so strong, it has enabled him to go off the deep end with this philosophy.
(10-19-2018 11:46 PM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote: You don't think Carey's goal is to keep the score close every game, I think he has said as much? Again, that might be fine against a team like FSU or Iowa, but my goodness, occasionally play to win, especially vs MAC opponents where you more often than not have the better team
Carey would love a 30 point lead just like any coach. His goal isn't to keep his points down on offense, but to avoid giving up free points to the opponent that his defense would not have normally given up. Its just very conservative. Carey thinks his defense won't give up more than 21. So lets not have the offense spot the opponent 10 free ones by mistakes. I think he believes this offense can put 24-31 points up even with their dysfunction. I don't, but I think he does.
Well if his goal is have a 30 point lead, deferring possessions at end of halves is an odd way to show it. I think what I have witnessed which is backed up by NIU007's observations, is that Carey is much more in his safe space, comfort zone with a close game. That is why I stated it could be consciously or subconsciously. He is much more comfortable with close games and his actions and in-game decisions show that.
oh will you just stop it lol
He just has some of that old school mentality which is so frustrating, the whole "If we win the turnover battle, we should win". Carey cheats that formula by going into the turtle offensively in hopes the football gods will reward him for not making mistakes haha. I know it sounds moronic, but that is just how the man thinks. By staying in a close game, being conservative, not letting players make plays, he just thinks inherently that means the other team will blink first with the mistake. It is just such a passive approach. I kind of wonder if Carey always had these tentative tendencies, but as the defense has become so strong, it has enabled him to go off the deep end with this philosophy.
While I'm agreeing with you(and besmudging my dog pound rep in the process) about there being some turtling by Carey, its the impetus that I disagree about. I also agree with 7 that its the same damn offense NIU has always run. It's just being tailored to avoid Childers' weaknesses, which is decision making and accuracy. That's all it is. No deep psychological need by Carey to have games tight and tense until the end. He just limits Childers making the more dangerous throws and limits the obvious passing situations like 45 seconds until halftime.
(This post was last modified: 10-20-2018 09:00 AM by Rabid Squirrel.)
(10-19-2018 01:03 PM)Rabid Squirrel Wrote: While I'm not agreeing with MD, theres a touch of truth to his point. He's just exaggerating it so he can blame Carey.
For sure the number one reason the offense does struggle is because of the lack of a deep passing threat. Whether this has influenced the play calling or not, this years offense is more conservative than previous years. So while Childers has not been executing certain passes well, the offense has also pulled in the reigns on pushing the ball when there is opportunities to do so.
I agree with your second point, but there’s a touch of truth to MD’s point? MD’s statements include:
--Carey seems to have this idea that being in close games late is a good thing;
--The main reason Carey prefers close games is the fear that the players will disengage and be mistake prone;
--I feel like Carey has fallen in love with an identity of keeping it close and pulling things out in the end;
--This avoids a late choke job and not having to explain your team blowing a 17 or 21 point lead; and
--Carey prefers to play close games, so the offense won’t be overly effective. That’s actually by design.
If players disengaging means relaxing a bit with a big lead, there could be a touch of truth there, but our D is not the disengaging type, and I and many others have commented about our team’s heart and they never quit. Other than that, we have the only coach in the history of college football that intentionally and by design does not want a big lead and prefers to keep games close and pulling it out in the end.
The only truth MD touched on was the offense playing scared. All the reasons he listed are just conspiracy theory stuff. Carey doesn't trust one player. Childers. He let Santa throw it around and the interceptions happened. He's not going to give Childers that same chance to fail.
You don't think Carey's goal is to keep the score close every game, I think he has said as much? Again, that might be fine against a team like FSU or Iowa, but my goodness, occasionally play to win, especially vs MAC opponents where you more often than not have the better team
Carey would love a 30 point lead just like any coach. His goal isn't to keep his points down on offense, but to avoid giving up free points to the opponent that his defense would not have normally given up. Its just very conservative. Carey thinks his defense won't give up more than 21. So lets not have the offense spot the opponent 10 free ones by mistakes. I think he believes this offense can put 24-31 points up even with their dysfunction. I don't, but I think he does.
) about there being some turtling by Carey, its the impetus that I disagree about. I also agree with 7 that its the same damn offense NIU has always run. It's just being tailored to avoid Childers' weaknesses, which is decision making and accuracy. That's all it is. No deep psychological need by Carey to have games tight and tense until the end. He just limits Childers making the more dangerous throws and limits the obvious passing situations like 45 seconds until halftime.
