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OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #21
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 11:28 AM)Bogg Wrote:  I'm sure he B1G will give shaking MSG loose during the primary week a try, but Delany himself summed up the biggest stumbling block that's going to be in their way:

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports...602483002/

They're looking to settle on a rotation where about 80% of the time their tournament is in either Chicago or Indy while the other 20% of the time it's open to be bid on by "out" cities. If the B1G wanted to really commit to NYC the Big East might have something to worry about, but with the B1G only looking to play in NY once or twice every ten years they'd have more luck just buying the A10 out of their Barclays lease for individual years here and there. MSG isn't going to blow up that relationship to be part of a once-a-decade rotation so long as the tournament continues to sell out.

Each Big Ten school makes about $50 Mil per year. Each Big East school makes about $4 Mil per year. The Big Ten could make it well worth MSG's while to make some kind of an arrangement happen. It also wouldn't surprise me to see the Big Ten and ACC put out a joint proposal to make it happen. I could definitely see something like:

Year 1: Big East
Year 2: Big Ten
Year 3: Big East
Year 4: ACC
Year 5: Big East
Year 6: Big Ten
Year 7: Big East
Year 8: ACC
Year 9: Big East
10-12-2018 11:44 AM
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First Mate Offline
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Post: #22
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 08:31 AM)UCF-ENG Wrote:  The Big East started their decline the day they stabbed the football schools in the back. They could have potentially been a real P6, but instead they jumped off the train and let the other 5 conferences run off with the keys to college athletics.

Truth. They never saw the writing on the wall. Football runs the show- not basketball.
10-12-2018 12:05 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #23
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 11:44 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 11:28 AM)Bogg Wrote:  I'm sure he B1G will give shaking MSG loose during the primary week a try, but Delany himself summed up the biggest stumbling block that's going to be in their way:

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports...602483002/

They're looking to settle on a rotation where about 80% of the time their tournament is in either Chicago or Indy while the other 20% of the time it's open to be bid on by "out" cities. If the B1G wanted to really commit to NYC the Big East might have something to worry about, but with the B1G only looking to play in NY once or twice every ten years they'd have more luck just buying the A10 out of their Barclays lease for individual years here and there. MSG isn't going to blow up that relationship to be part of a once-a-decade rotation so long as the tournament continues to sell out.

Each Big Ten school makes about $50 Mil per year. Each Big East school makes about $4 Mil per year. The Big Ten could make it well worth MSG's while to make some kind of an arrangement happen. It also wouldn't surprise me to see the Big Ten and ACC put out a joint proposal to make it happen. I could definitely see something like:

Year 1: Big East
Year 2: Big Ten
Year 3: Big East
Year 4: ACC
Year 5: Big East
Year 6: Big Ten
Year 7: Big East
Year 8: ACC
Year 9: Big East

I doubt that the B1G has much inclination to help the ACC, given the competition for network carriage/CFP slots they'll have going on and the ACC's stronger-in-NYC brands. Seems like a lot of money and effort to better showcase Duke and UNC.

At any rate, an arrangement like that is probably the worst-case scenario for UConn if it does come to pass. The school's already largely divorced itself from a meaningful NYC presence as a result of realignment, and a Big East-B1G-ACC MSG rotation would have EVERY major northeast program selling tournament games in the garden during a recruits tenure except for UConn.
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2018 12:55 PM by Bogg.)
10-12-2018 12:54 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 12:54 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 11:44 AM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 11:28 AM)Bogg Wrote:  I'm sure he B1G will give shaking MSG loose during the primary week a try, but Delany himself summed up the biggest stumbling block that's going to be in their way:

https://www.northjersey.com/story/sports...602483002/

They're looking to settle on a rotation where about 80% of the time their tournament is in either Chicago or Indy while the other 20% of the time it's open to be bid on by "out" cities. If the B1G wanted to really commit to NYC the Big East might have something to worry about, but with the B1G only looking to play in NY once or twice every ten years they'd have more luck just buying the A10 out of their Barclays lease for individual years here and there. MSG isn't going to blow up that relationship to be part of a once-a-decade rotation so long as the tournament continues to sell out.

Each Big Ten school makes about $50 Mil per year. Each Big East school makes about $4 Mil per year. The Big Ten could make it well worth MSG's while to make some kind of an arrangement happen. It also wouldn't surprise me to see the Big Ten and ACC put out a joint proposal to make it happen. I could definitely see something like:

Year 1: Big East
Year 2: Big Ten
Year 3: Big East
Year 4: ACC
Year 5: Big East
Year 6: Big Ten
Year 7: Big East
Year 8: ACC
Year 9: Big East

I doubt that the B1G has much inclination to help the ACC, given the competition for network carriage they'll have going on and the ACC's stronger-in-NYC brands. Seems like a lot of money and effort to better showcase Dule and UNC.

At any rate, an arrangement like that is probably the worst-case scenario for UConn if it does come to pass. The school's already largely divorced itself from a meaningful NYC presence as a result of realignment, and a Big East-B1G-ACC MSG rotation would have EVERY major northeast program selling tournament games in the garden during a recruits tenure except for UConn.

I couldn't disagree more. Are you following Hurley's 2019 recruiting? And the Big Ten has already made it be known they'll be playing in the city. The ACC is also already playing in Brooklyn.

In addition, UCONN can play any regional or blue-blood game it wants at MSG. MSG loves hosting UCONN. Rumor has it that Hurley is going after OOC games with St Johns and Seton Hall as well as keeping Cuse on the schedule. I see at least 2 games at MSG every year going forward. It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be.
10-12-2018 01:06 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #25
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 01:06 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  I couldn't disagree more. Are you following Hurley's 2019 recruiting? And the Big Ten has already made it be known they'll be playing in the city. The ACC is also already playing in Brooklyn.

In addition, UCONN can play any regional or blue-blood game it wants at MSG. MSG loves hosting UCONN. Rumor has it that Hurley is going after OOC games with St Johns and Seton Hall as well as keeping Cuse on the schedule. I see at least 2 games at MSG every year going forward. It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be.

November exhibition games aren't the same thing as conference championships. Maryland, Pitt, Cuse, Nova...even Ohio State and the Michigans pitching DMV/Jersey/NYC kids on tournaments in MSG while UConn's pitching Dickie's Arena in Fort Worth, Texas is a bad thing for UConn.
10-12-2018 01:17 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 01:17 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 01:06 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  I couldn't disagree more. Are you following Hurley's 2019 recruiting? And the Big Ten has already made it be known they'll be playing in the city. The ACC is also already playing in Brooklyn.

In addition, UCONN can play any regional or blue-blood game it wants at MSG. MSG loves hosting UCONN. Rumor has it that Hurley is going after OOC games with St Johns and Seton Hall as well as keeping Cuse on the schedule. I see at least 2 games at MSG every year going forward. It's not as big of a deal as you make it out to be.

November exhibition games aren't the same thing as conference championships. Maryland, Pitt, Cuse, Nova...even Ohio State and the Michigans pitching DMV/Jersey/NYC kids on tournaments in MSG while UConn's pitching Dickie's Arena in Fort Worth, Texas is a bad thing for UConn.

Exhibition games? Cuse and Nova are the 2 most important games on the schedule for non-casual UCONN fans.

And where you play your conference tourney doesn't even register as a Top 5 reason why a recruit chooses a school. Ollie proved that with a Top 10 class in 2016. Hurley will prove that again with a Top 10 class in 2019.
10-12-2018 01:24 PM
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UConnHusky Offline
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Post: #27
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
UConn needs to fix its football disaster ASAP and at least start pulling 6-6 seasons in 2021 through 2024 in order to have a shot at the B1G time (as unlikely as it still is). One can dream, though.

If we can bring them great men's hoop, great women's hoop, another solid hockey team for their conference and serviceable football, then there is at least a chance.
10-12-2018 01:30 PM
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megadrone Offline
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Post: #28
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
Hard to believe that the Big 10 can get the space over the Big East. It won't be an every-year commitment as the plan was to rotate between Chicago/DC/NY and maybe Indianapolis.
10-12-2018 01:35 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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Post: #29
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 01:30 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  UConn needs to fix its football disaster ASAP and at least start pulling 6-6 seasons in 2021 through 2024 in order to have a shot at the B1G time (as unlikely as it still is). One can dream, though.

If we can bring them great men's hoop, great women's hoop, another solid hockey team for their conference and serviceable football, then there is at least a chance.

I think the conference realignment fad is over with for a while.
10-12-2018 01:45 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 01:45 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 01:30 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  UConn needs to fix its football disaster ASAP and at least start pulling 6-6 seasons in 2021 through 2024 in order to have a shot at the B1G time (as unlikely as it still is). One can dream, though.

If we can bring them great men's hoop, great women's hoop, another solid hockey team for their conference and serviceable football, then there is at least a chance.

I think the conference realignment fad is over with for a while.

Yup. Best to make due. Maybe in 10 years tho.
10-12-2018 01:47 PM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 01:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Exhibition games? Cuse and Nova are the 2 most important games on the schedule for non-casual UCONN fans.

Yea, that's kind of the problem right now.

(10-12-2018 01:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  And where you play your conference tourney doesn't even register as a Top 5 reason why a recruit chooses a school.

You can't honestly believe that recruits don't consider things like crowd size, facilities, and whether their families will get to see them play when choosing schools. Simply put, increased NYC exposure for the Midwestern B1G schools and Southern ACC schools is a bad thing for UConn.


(10-12-2018 01:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Ollie proved that with a Top 10 class in 2016. Hurley will prove that again with a Top 10 class in 2019.

You can successfully steer a car with your knees if you get really good at it, but it's still the harder way to do it. If tournaments in NYC didn't give the B1G/ACC schools a boost then they wouldn't be going to so much effort to make them happen.
10-12-2018 01:54 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 01:54 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 01:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Exhibition games? Cuse and Nova are the 2 most important games on the schedule for non-casual UCONN fans.

Yea, that's kind of the problem right now.

(10-12-2018 01:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  And where you play your conference tourney doesn't even register as a Top 5 reason why a recruit chooses a school.

You can't honestly believe that recruits don't consider things like crowd size, facilities, and whether their families will get to see them play when choosing schools. Simply put, increased NYC exposure for the Midwestern B1G schools and Southern ACC schools is a bad thing for UConn.


(10-12-2018 01:24 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Ollie proved that with a Top 10 class in 2016. Hurley will prove that again with a Top 10 class in 2019.

You can successfully steer a car with your knees if you get really good at it, but it's still the harder way to do it. If tournaments in NYC didn't give the B1G/ACC schools a boost then they wouldn't be going to so much effort to make them happen.

Crowd size, facilities, and family being able to see them play are all different categories than conference tourney location. And if you can make the trek to MSG to see a family member play, you can also very likely make it to Hartford/Storrs to see him play. Simple fact of the matter is that conference tourney location doesn't dictate a recruit's decision. Sure, it's an added bonus, but no recruit is making it a top priority.
10-12-2018 02:11 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #33
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 02:11 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Crowd size, facilities, and family being able to see them play are all different categories than conference tourney location.

They're really not. Playing your conference tournament in a sold-out or nearly-sold-out famous arena an hour or two from where your parents and aunts and uncles live plays into all that. There's no one panacea for recruiting outside of duffle bags stuffed full of shoe company cash, but these sorts of things can make a difference for kids outside of your historical footprint.

(10-12-2018 02:11 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  And if you can make the trek to MSG to see a family member play, you can also very likely make it to Hartford/Storrs to see him play.

It's not about the difference in distance between Manhattan and Hartford, it's Manhattan and Bloomington or East Lansing or Tallahassee. A consistent New York presence helps all of those schools recruit the northeast.

(10-12-2018 02:11 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  Simple fact of the matter is that conference tourney location doesn't dictate a recruit's decision. Sure, it's an added bonus, but no recruit is making it a top priority.

It doesn't have to be a top priority. We aren't discussing unknown schools playing in high school gyms who think they've found the magic recruiting sauce, we're discussing national brands with dedicated conference networks, top facilities, and the media pushing the P5 narrative in support of them. Those added bonuses are all they need to further elbow in to the region.
10-12-2018 02:48 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
We'll know soon, but 2 Top 10 classes in the past 4 years totally derails your argument.
10-12-2018 03:05 PM
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Bogg Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 03:05 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  We'll know soon, but 2 Top 10 classes in the past 4 years totally derails your argument.

UConn having one recruiting class that's produced Christian Vital as its only meaningful contributor and possibly putting together a good 2019 class derails the argument that theoretical regular B1G tournaments in New York a decade from now (MSG's current deal runs to 2026) would help Michigan recruit NY/NJ how?
10-12-2018 03:14 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 03:14 PM)Bogg Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 03:05 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  We'll know soon, but 2 Top 10 classes in the past 4 years totally derails your argument.

UConn having one recruiting class that's produced Christian Vital as its only meaningful contributor and possibly putting together a good 2019 class derails the argument that theoretical regular B1G tournaments in New York a decade from now (MSG's current deal runs to 2026) would help Michigan recruit NY/NJ how?

Recruits primarily play for the school, not the conference. Even though the ACC played their 2018 tourney in Brooklyn and the Big Ten played their 2018 tourney at MSG, we're still on track for the best recruiting class in program history (all with NY/New England recruits). How?
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2018 03:22 PM by HuskyU.)
10-12-2018 03:21 PM
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ShockerFever Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
I agree with Husky. The conference tournament location notion is utterly meaningless in regards to recruiting.

I think Bogg is a touch nostalgic, which of course is fine, but doesn’t provide a winning argument here.
10-12-2018 03:29 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 03:29 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  I agree with Husky. The conference tournament location notion is utterly meaningless in regards to recruiting.

I think Bogg is a touch nostalgic, which of course is fine, but doesn’t provide a winning argument here.

It's a bizarre argument. I can understand conference affiliation being an important factor to some recruits, but not conference tourney location.
10-12-2018 03:35 PM
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Bogg Offline
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Post: #39
RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 03:35 PM)HuskyU Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 03:29 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  I agree with Husky. The conference tournament location notion is utterly meaningless in regards to recruiting.

I think Bogg is a touch nostalgic, which of course is fine, but doesn’t provide a winning argument here.

It's a bizarre argument. I can understand conference affiliation being an important factor to some recruits, but not conference tourney location.

So you understand the idea of a kid from New Jersey liking that Indiana plays in the B1G, but you don't understand why a kid from New Jersey would be excited to get to play in Madison Square Garden?
10-12-2018 03:39 PM
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vick mike Offline
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RE: OT: Delany/Big Ten trying to push Big East out of MSG
(10-12-2018 01:45 PM)ShockerFever Wrote:  
(10-12-2018 01:30 PM)UConnHusky Wrote:  UConn needs to fix its football disaster ASAP and at least start pulling 6-6 seasons in 2021 through 2024 in order to have a shot at the B1G time (as unlikely as it still is). One can dream, though.

If we can bring them great men's hoop, great women's hoop, another solid hockey team for their conference and serviceable football, then there is at least a chance.

I think the conference realignment fad is over with for a while.

Says the guy from the school that realigned last year.
10-12-2018 03:39 PM
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