(10-08-2018 03:39 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  There are no easy answers I realize. Here's the graphic I'm most worried about - what North America would look like if all the polar ice melted. I guess the bright side for me is I'm 45 miles or so from the Gulf of Mexico but I might have oceanfront property down the road.

Well look on the bright side. Some of the most liberal cities in the United States would be underwater literally as well as with their budgets. And the Cuban and Haitian problems go away.

(10-08-2018 03:58 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 03:39 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  There are no easy answers I realize. Here's the graphic I'm most worried about - what North America would look like if all the polar ice melted. I guess the bright side for me is I'm 45 miles or so from the Gulf of Mexico but I might have oceanfront property down the road.

Exactly why any serious proposal starts with discouraging new coastal development.

What's happened in Miami the last 15-20 years is nuts. 15 miles of high rise condos on the Atlantic.

They'll make a helluva artificial reef!

(10-08-2018 04:22 PM)No Bull Wrote:  I will add another one. Stop Fast Food Drive throughs. How many cars idle each day waiting for a whopper or Big Mac? Wouldn't stopping cars from idling at drive throughs be a small positive step?

idling cars article

I thought we fixed not only that but the holes in the ozone layer by no longer having straws in the Bay Area?

If you're going to do a "small step" how about one that ticks more boxes than just environmental? How about we fix all the potholes that blow out tires?

(10-08-2018 05:26 PM)georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 04:22 PM)No Bull Wrote:  I will add another one. Stop Fast Food Drive throughs. How many cars idle each day waiting for a whopper or Big Mac? Wouldn't stopping cars from idling at drive throughs be a small positive step?

idling cars article

I thought we fixed not only that but the holes in the ozone layer by no longer having straws in the Bay Area?

If you're going to do a "small step" how about one that ticks more boxes than just environmental? How about we fix all the potholes that blow out tires?

well... I was half in jest...but the day drive throughs get banned... I will know that people are truly alarmed. Right now we won't even give up drive through big macs... to prevent climate change... so all this Sturm und Drang is a bunch of U.N./media BS....

(10-08-2018 02:46 PM)VA49er Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 12:08 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  And let's have an adult conversation here. We're one significant volcanic eruption away from seeing more global warming pollutants shot into the upper atmosphere than has been produced by every human who ever was.

I think that already happens anyway.

It's happened many times in recent history.

(10-08-2018 03:51 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Same as it ever was. As others have mentioned, the US was once under tons of ice.....

Understatement of the year.

There was once so much ice on the continent that depressed the earth below it, that even today, 12,000 years later, in many areas once covered by glaciers there are measureable amounts of "spring-back", or uplifting of the surface due to the loss of that weight.

And, as I'm sure you know, the Great Lakes were formed during these periods of glaciation. That's some serious tons of ice.

This is all about taxes US energy production, aka CAP & Trade. IF liberals get their way look forward to average electricity bills of $500/mo. $6/gallon gasoline, etc. It's not about the climate, it's about wealth redistribution giving western wealth to undeveloped 3rd world nations through Cap & Trade.

(10-08-2018 03:39 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  There are no easy answers I realize. Here's the graphic I'm most worried about - what North America would look like if all the polar ice melted. I guess the bright side for me is I'm 45 miles or so from the Gulf of Mexico but I might have oceanfront property down the road.

The good news is that it looks like Gitmo will still be operational.

(10-08-2018 06:02 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 03:39 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  There are no easy answers I realize. Here's the graphic I'm most worried about - what North America would look like if all the polar ice melted. I guess the bright side for me is I'm 45 miles or so from the Gulf of Mexico but I might have oceanfront property down the road.

The good news is that it looks like Gitmo will still be operational.

(10-08-2018 12:22 PM)JRsec Wrote:  These are the steps that need to be taken to reduce environmental problems:

1. Each nation should offer a tax deduction that is regressive for families larger than 3. That way those who can least afford to have more children would be incentivized not to.
China actually had a good model for this. If a couple chose to be childless they would receive an annual stipend theoretically to replace what a child could do for them in old age.

Have only 1 child and you owed nothing extra but received nothing extra.

Have more than 1 child and you paid even more tax.

In principal this should have worked better except their culture which is male dominant led to the infanticide of female babies.

Make the stipends stronger and do it globally and every 120 years we should be able to reduce the population by 1/4 to 1/3 allowing for some non compliance.

People are the #1 contributor to the real global issues: pollution of the seas and over fishing as well as the reduction of arable soil. We keep building over it which kills its usefulness for close to 100 years due to asphalt and concrete slabs.

2. People should build their homes and some smaller workplaces underground. This reduces the cost of building by about 20% since trim work is more expensive, and it reduces heating and cooling completely as underground temperatures are constant. It also would eliminate wind damage to homes. An extra outside waterproofed wall would be one of the few added expenses and if built properly the home could be fallout proofed as well.

By doing this we would eventually recover a significant area of topsoil, green the planet which would help with carbon absorption, and reduce the need of carbon fuels.

3. As painful as it may seem, we should vastly improve public transportation eliminating the need for as many hours spent in private automobiles. It would be safer and less expensive to the average family.

Do these 3 things globally, and it would improve the overall stress on the resources of the planet significantly.

The Tax structure is the only instrument nations need to accomplish this.

Make the stipends for going childless large enough to cover the couple's end of life care and it would have an impact.

Give home builders a significant enough break on taxation, or even tax credits for building underground and people would start to see the advantages which strongly outweigh the aesthetics of the above ground dwelling.

Give local municipalities incentive money to vastly enhance their public transportation and the fuel consumption would drop and with it carbon emissions.

I agree that we aren't heading into anything rapidly, but I also agree some minor culture changes could help us reverse the issues in our most challenging areas which are the health of the oceans, a better use for arable land space, and overpopulation.

Sounds like a great way to destroy American society.

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I clearly remember everyone screaming that the next ice age was imminent. Forgive me for calling Fabrics on most of this. Do we contribute to climate change? Probably so..to a small degree. No where as much as the "Chicken Little's" would lead you to believe. We should take steps where we can without damaging our economy to reduce our footprint..but..most of this is simply cycle oriented and there is nothing we can do about it.

(10-08-2018 06:02 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 03:39 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  There are no easy answers I realize. Here's the graphic I'm most worried about - what North America would look like if all the polar ice melted. I guess the bright side for me is I'm 45 miles or so from the Gulf of Mexico but I might have oceanfront property down the road.

The good news is that it looks like Gitmo will still be operational.

It is amazing how this issue makes otherwise intelligent people lose it. It really is a religion. By the way, that was the 2012 map of the US back in the 90s according to these same people.

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(10-08-2018 07:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I clearly remember everyone screaming that the next ice age was imminent. Forgive me for calling Fabrics on most of this. Do we contribute to climate change? Probably so..to a small degree. No where as much as the "Chicken Little's" would lead you to believe. We should take steps where we can without damaging our economy to reduce our footprint..but..most of this is simply cycle oriented and there is nothing we can do about it.

I too clearly remember sitting in a university biology classroom and hearing the professor talking about the coming ice age. That would have been 1972 or 73.

(10-08-2018 07:50 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 07:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I clearly remember everyone screaming that the next ice age was imminent. Forgive me for calling Fabrics on most of this. Do we contribute to climate change? Probably so..to a small degree. No where as much as the "Chicken Little's" would lead you to believe. We should take steps where we can without damaging our economy to reduce our footprint..but..most of this is simply cycle oriented and there is nothing we can do about it.

I too clearly remember sitting in a university biology classroom and hearing the professor talking about the coming ice age. That would have been 1972 or 73.

Yes...I was in High School. It was all the talk in the 70s. It is all BS made up by people with agendas beyond this issue.

(10-08-2018 07:51 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 07:50 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 07:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I clearly remember everyone screaming that the next ice age was imminent. Forgive me for calling Fabrics on most of this. Do we contribute to climate change? Probably so..to a small degree. No where as much as the "Chicken Little's" would lead you to believe. We should take steps where we can without damaging our economy to reduce our footprint..but..most of this is simply cycle oriented and there is nothing we can do about it.

I too clearly remember sitting in a university biology classroom and hearing the professor talking about the coming ice age. That would have been 1972 or 73.

Yes...I was in High School. It was all the talk in the 70s. It is all BS made up by people with agendas beyond this issue.

Time Magazine Another Ice Age? June 24, 1974

Quote:As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

http://content.time.com/time/subscriber/...14,00.html

Newsweek Magazine The Cooling World April 28, 1975

Quote:The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth’s climate seems to be cooling down. Meteorologists disagree about the cause and extent of the cooling trend […] but they are almost unanimous in the view that the trend will reduce agricultural productivity for the next century. […]

Climatologists are pessimistic that political leaders will take any positive action to compensate for the climatic change, or even to allay its effects. They concede that some of the more spectacular solutions proposed, such as melting the arctic ice cap by covering it with black soot or diverting arctic rivers, might create problems far greater than those they solve.

http://www.denisdutton.com/newsweek_coolingworld.pdf

(10-08-2018 07:50 PM)TechRocks Wrote:  

(10-08-2018 07:45 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I clearly remember everyone screaming that the next ice age was imminent. Forgive me for calling Fabrics on most of this. Do we contribute to climate change? Probably so..to a small degree. No where as much as the "Chicken Little's" would lead you to believe. We should take steps where we can without damaging our economy to reduce our footprint..but..most of this is simply cycle oriented and there is nothing we can do about it.

I too clearly remember sitting in a university biology classroom and hearing the professor talking about the coming ice age. That would have been 1972 or 73.

I believe it was the winter of 1975 I was in middle school (lived in WV) school closed for over two weeks due to brutal cold weather where day time highs were just above zero. All scientists swore there was a new ice age coming. That memory imprinted on my mind makes me think climate science and climate scientists are full of CRAP!

My big issue with environmentalism today is that it's more about feeling good than doing good. You've got dopes recharging their electric cars from a grid run by coal while looking down their noses at people using gasoline. Liberals are patting themselves on the back for banning straws that account for a tiny percentage of ocean plastic. People eat organic food that costs more and has no health benefits and very dubious environmental benefits. In fact, I would go as far as to say that most of the things eco-conscious people do to help the environment doens't actually help it.

Now these same people are telling me I need to drive a smaller car and turn my thermostat up 7 degrees in the Summer. GTFO, that's just going to slow down the process. Don't shout "iceberg" and then get mad at me for not helping re-arrange the deck chairs. There's basically only one realistic way to get emissions lowered in a pace that scientists say matters...nuclear energy, which stupid liberal states like Vermont and California are going to star lessening. I'm pretty much going to be in apathy mode and just accept we're hitting whatever is down the road because liberal greenies want use knives for a fight that's going to require artillery.

(10-08-2018 09:29 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  My big issue with environmentalism today is that it's more about feeling good than doing good. You've got dopes recharging their electric cars from a grid run by coal while looking down their noses at people using gasoline. Liberals are patting themselves on the back for banning straws that account for a tiny percentage of ocean plastic. People eat organic food that costs more and has no health benefits and very dubious environmental benefits. In fact, I would go as far as to say that most of the things eco-conscious people do to help the environment doesn't actually help it.
Now these same people are telling me I need to drive a smaller car and turn my thermostat up 7 degrees in the Summer. GTFO, that's just going to slow down the process. Don't shout "iceberg" and then get mad at me for not helping re-arrange the deck chairs. There's basically only one realistic way to get emissions lowered in a pace that scientists say matters...nuclear energy, which stupid liberal states like Vermont and California are going to star lessening. I'm pretty much going to be in apathy mode and just accept we're hitting whatever is down the road because liberal greenies want use knives for a fight that's going to require artillery.

This.

If it is going to be so catastrophic, shouldn't we be doing massive things instead of changing out light bulbs?

If we can convert deserts into farmable land, that would be a huge bonus. I buy not into the doomsday predictions, particularly wrt global warming, but technological improvements would make other areas more liveable.

(10-08-2018 03:39 PM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  There are no easy answers I realize. Here's the graphic I'm most worried about - what North America would look like if all the polar ice melted. I guess the bright side for me is I'm 45 miles or so from the Gulf of Mexico but I might have oceanfront property down the road.

What a BS map. All of Florida gone but LA still there?